The most logical merger would be between FF and FG. FG would stop FF’s worst corrupt impulses, which and FF would make FG at least not sound as pompous. Both deserve each other.

Brian Hayes working class? I don’t think he sprung from working class stock at all. Though definitely a solid Tory

Derek Keating? Never heard of him before and this is what he produces after 18 months in government. Hope those who elected him are proud of their selection.

Kerry, I voted for him, had known him as a decent councillor when he was an Independent. He had a good record prior to his election to the Dail. However, I will admit that my view has changed completely since. I have requested several pieces of information from him regarding his actions within the Dail and those of his party and have found him to be extremely difficult to get anything from now. I can guarantee you I will never be voting for him ever again. He has fallen into the shoes of those he bemoaned when not in office.

The ironic thing he, he has done his rounds. Started in FF, moved to the PDs, became an Indo, and finally got recognition within FG. He certainly has grown a neck since he joined Ednas girls, pity he didnt retain his vision of those who put him there in the first place. He has turned into just a smarmy copy of his lapdog leader.

Thanks for that Mark. I suspect you have described the blue print for FG like all other parties power for the sake of it and little else.

Aaaaaahhhhh do me a favour. Is that the same party that ruined this country. Ireland has never had a left wing government now is the time. No need for deals or excuses FF or FG makes no difference SF needs a chance and I never thought I would say that when I moved over to Ireland in 1980. GMAO

They all do. Once they see their fat wage package

Arrogance!

@Vincent… you’re on a fire this evening… the shinner-bots will fritz out any second now.

I age with your point about FF, but I have to ask, have you ever seen the videos of Enda saying the purity tax is immoral, or the one where he was on the campaign trail and was videos trekking someone in a wheelchair that he was the leader of the party that would not allow cuts to the disabled. Hee didn’t know he was being videod, and was forced by public reaction 9 months later into forcing a retraction of the bill to reduce their allowances.
Don’t get me started on labour, protecting Childrens allowances, or FFGs not one red cent, of that gombeen quinn from labour, signing a pledge 22 months ago not to further increase student registration fees.
I personally believe that any parties that sign any documents on their parties behalf, as part of an election pledge, should be forced to go back to the electorate, if they want to break one of those signed pledges, or video pledges.

Aww jeasus Micheal, Chillax, i wasn’t suggesting that any one vote for the PDs, sure have they not gone the way of the dodo. I was pointing out that come the next election Enda and Eamon will face the same fate. In a few years time we’ll be sitting in our cardboard boxes or Austrailia saying “do you remember that boy Enda, you know the one that made us all pay for the mistakes of others, and drove our children out of the country”

No show at Fossetts tonight, Stephen?

A re branded me feiner is still a me feiner. Just confine FF to the bin at next election and chalk the last 80yrs of Mis rule to experience.

Is that the best you can do, a habit of FG is to insult instead of using intelligent replies!

#Stephen- I could have asked you to substantiate your unfounded description of the Fine Gael party as corrupt but what would be the point?

Messrs Lowry and O’Brien don’t ring any bells, I take it?

he suffers with selective amnesia the poor man

#Denis O’Brien was in Fine Gael was he? Remember FG threw Lowry out of the party. FF let him order off the menu as an independent to keep them in power. And the very fact that you had to back 15+ years to a guy who was expelled speaks volumes. No party is 100% clean. You can only judge them by how they react when incidents arise.

vincent
then judge james reilly and probably more importantly explain enda kenny backing the man?

Simple reason I had to go back that far, Vincent. The Blueshirts spent a good decade and a half as an unelectable shambles, and there’s not much point bribing a party that hasn’t got the remotest chance of influencing anything. Expect normal service to be resumed shortly.

Granted, quite a few councillors were named by Alan Mahon:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/daniel-mcconnell-corruption-scandal-has-not-gone-away-for-fine-gael-3161481.html

Of the current scatter, Mr Reilly’s behaviour is hardly ethical, in fact it seems pretty corrupt to me:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1205/1224327510118.html

But we don’t know the half of it … yet.

I think you need to look up the term “corruption”, Frank. Unfortunately, you won’t find it in Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book- so you’ll have to put it down and find another one.

#Voodoo- “seems pretty corrupt to me”- I didn’t realise that we’re allowed define our own words. That’s going to make it tricky for the courts. And I didn’t say FG were squeaky clean. You suggested that the party was inherently corrupt. A point you have failed to substantiate. But why let facts get in the way of lazy, populist rhetoric, eh?

Getting a bit hot under the collar, there, Vinny?

Well, then, let’s call a spade a spade. Favouring your own constituency for political reasons is corruption, pure and simple – a Minister, TD’s or Councillor’s electoral prospects is not a sufficient reason to make a decision to spend public money, it must be based on evidence and the real needs of every area.

vincent i dont read mao and i will tell you why because its corruptthe polit bureau are the new capitalists
i read fact
and these are the facts
Disparity between rich and poor has increased since this government came to power and thats a step in the wrong direction
This is an excerpt from a very interesting book called the spirit level and it explains why disparity must be eradicated
“The big idea is that what matters in determining mortality and health in a society is less the overall wealth of that society and more how evenly that wealth is distributed. The more equally wealth is distributed the better the health of that society.”
Babies born in the USA (the least equal developed nation apart from Singapore) are twice as likely to die in their first year than babies in Japan (the most equal developed nation), and life expectancy in Sweden (fourth most equal) is three years greater than in the USA. And these figures are averages across all classes in a society. “Health disparities are not simply a contrast between the ill health of the poor and the better health of everyone else. Instead, they run right across society so that even the reasonably well off have shorter lives than the very rich.” Although the benefits of greater equality are biggest for the lower classes,
“greater equality brings substantial gains even in the top occupational class and among the richest or best educated quarter or third of the population”.
The more unequal a rich country is, the worse its performance is likely to be in a whole range of variables including:
life expectancy
infant mortality
obesity
child wellbeing
amount of mental illness
use of illegal drugs
teenage pregnancy rates
homicide
fighting and bullying among children
imprisonment rates
levels of mutual trust between citizens
maths and literacy attainment
social mobility (children rising in social scale compared with their parents)
the status of women
inventiveness and innovation
waste recycling
spending on foreign aid

#Voodoo- “based on evidence”, you say? And your evidence re: Reilly is where? Hypocrite.

#Frank- you didn’t expect me to actually read that, did you?

you would be doing yourself a disservice if you didnt vincent buy hey we all have free will

Evidence of need informed the list of primary care centres which was drawn up by the HSE, who, for all their faults, are the ones who have the experience in that area.

James Reilly added two extra centres in his own constituency at the last minute, that’s an incontrovertible fact. Read the Irish Times piece linked above.

Then there’s also the fact that he’d spoken to NAMA about it in advance, despite the fact that Shortall and the HSE were the ones who should have been drawing up the list:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/james-reilly-had-talked-to-nama-about-primary-care-centres-3272833.html

Look up, Blind stupidity and you’ll find a picture of Vincent along side it!

#Voodoo- that’s all very interesting. There’s two sides to corruption. One is that you did something, for example in this case adding the two to the list. The other is that you benefitted from it. And your evidence of some sort of pay off for Reilly is where? On the subject of corruption- you know the money laundering, bank robbing, drug dealing and protection money rackets that your SF party were involved in- any of that defined as “corruption” in your book?

#Stephen- profound, man. Really made me think, that.

“And your evidence of some sort of pay off for Reilly is where?”

If he makes it ’till the next election, which is doubtful in the extreme, you can bet that he’s hoping for an electoral dividend for taking care of his constituents. It’s an unwarranted appropriation of public funds for private purpose – Reilly’s vote count. Corruption. Simple as that.

As for the Sinner bit, nice try Vinny, but I’m not a member of Sinn Féin, I’m don’t supporth Sinn Féin, I’ve never voted Sinn Féin and I don’t know anyone who is in Sinn Féin. They’re got a dirty, dirty history, but that doesn’t detract in the slightest from the kind of gombeen politics that the Blueshirts are dug into.

#voodoo. Every politician in the history of Democracy would have to be indicted on corruption charges if throwing a bone to key constituents to get fee elected was actually corruption. Not that I accept Reilly did that. As for Sinn Fein, given your Ode to Gerry Adams on the later thread this evening, I find your disavowal hard to believe. And let’s face it, Shinners have form when it comes to denying membership….

Frank I cannot comment on having read the book but it is part of my reading for the year and some of the findings and what is written in it makes an awful lot of sense if only so many people read it they would know more and b in more of a position to talk about equality

Ok, Vinny, so gombeen politics is just fine when it’s the Blueshirts that are doing it, and anyone who has a more nuanced take on the history of the Troubles than pointing at the Sinners and shouting “MURDERER” is clearly some kind of fellow traveller.

You’ve made yourself perfectly clear … again.

David
its a great read
while politics have a role its more about what we want as a society and how by making society better we make our lives better. in a recent oced report ireland was rated the worst country in the eu in terms of disparity of wealth,
read the book and see what the consequences of that are

Can Fine Gael advice why Lowry was not prosecuted?

Or has he (Lowry) something on Enda?

Just asking??

Sometimes it’s good to probe?

Kerry, obviously he can’t. That is why people now refer to them as FFG…. But as far as.both parties are concerned, anything that takes the attention off the budget, id a great news story for FFG/labour.

@Richard: Who says Im quitting?