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WHEN AUTHOR AND playwright Frank McGuinness looks around his office in UCD, things feel familiar and comforting.
In 1971, he came to UCD “as a timid boy from Donegal”, and had his first tutorial in the room that is now his office. A Buncrana native, McGuinness has made Dublin his home since he moved to UCD – but also shares a house in Donegal with his brother so that his niece can experience some of the life they had.
He’s going to be moving out of this office in June, when he retires. ”But I did a great circle to come back here,” he says to TheJournal.ie, nodding towards the copious books and notebooks surrounding him.
We’re here to meet McGuinness because of his nomination in this year’s Bord Gais Energy Irish Book Awards, which takes place on Tuesday 28 November. He’s nominated in TheJournal.ie Best Irish Published Book of the Year category for his latest book, The Woodcutter And His Family. The book explores the story of James Joyce and his family in Zurich, as Joyce faces his last days, with the title referring to a short story Joyce has written (which makes up the final part of the book).
‘It took me a year to be able to breathe’
McGuinness is considered one of Ireland’s great living writers, but like all successful people had to go through his years of growth and insecurity. When he first arrived in Dublin for college he describes himself as feeling “fearful, frightened”.
“It took me about a year to be able to breathe in Dublin and weirdly enough this was a very secure place, this room actually, and this college was a very secure place,” he says.
While everything was in flux around him as the college had moved to a new campus from Earlsfort Terrace, McGuinness says he “found this place kind of comforting in a weird way: that I knew my place here, I knew what I wanted to do, I knew I wanted to study English and this was a great opportunity to concentrate on the subject that I loved”.
“So in that way it was very strange contradiction on knowing exactly why you’re here and not knowing what the hell’s going to happen next and where you are,” he reflects.
Dawson St – rather than the traditional Grafton St – became the centre of his Dublin city. “I could find my way anywhere from Dawson St and back to Dawson St.” He loved the bookshops and cinemas that the big city had to offer.
“The cinemas were on during the day, I mean this is a big shock for Buncrana boy that you can go to the picture at 2 o’clock and that you can go to a bookshop and they’ve got masses of books that are about literature and masses of poetry and that sort,” he remembers.
But at the same time, when he arrived Dublin it was at the beginning of a long depression for the country. “It took about over 20 years to get itself together architecturally and to really get a pride in itself. It now has that I think and I think money suits it, I really do,” he says of the capital.
For him Dublin has “done well out of promoting itself as a vibrant and interesting city, a city that respects literature and in some respect, not every respect it does but I feel that there’s a new articulacy and a new confidence about it which I like”.
Theatre and change
McGuinness started out as a poet (he has a number of collections), and has long been involved in Ireland’s theatre world, since the success of his first play Factory Girls (its follow-up, Observe the Sons of Ulster Marching Towards the Somme, cemented his place as a bright new voice in Irish theatre).
Lately, the theatre world in Ireland has been the focus of a lot of talk around change, equality and moving forward.
What does he think of these changes?
“Well, there have been massive changes since 1982, 1980 when I first got involved professionally in a Dublin theatre scene, and I mean it’s inevitable there’s going to be historical changes and that’s to be expected and to be welcomed actually,” he says.
But while he is open to change and considers it important for a “living theatre” he says: “I think that in some respects you have to be careful in theatre not to lose the run of yourself and you’ve to be careful to recognise that there’s a necessity for continuity as well as for revolution.
“I’m afraid that I am worried about throwing out good stuff as well as very bad stuff, but I think that we all have to keep our head and be sensible.”
He continues:
“I mean you’ve got to take your audience with you and sometimes you can leave them behind as I know, I’ve done it. Sometimes they’ve come with me against their will, sometimes they come gleefully with me but it’s all part of your career in the theatre – you’re never going to able to know what’s going to work, ever, ever, ever know what’s going to work and that’s part of the joy of it. Its also part of the pain of it as well but you know you’ve got to get used to it.”
He describes theatre as “a rough house”. “It’s a rough place and you need to be able to stand up for yourself and you need to be able to rough it as well,” he cautions. “And nobody’s going to protect you, ultimately they’re not because if they do they’re going to protect your existence and your career and there’s nobody willing to do that, you’re on your own in theatre.”
He describes himself as “very lucky from the word go” that he had people around him who supported his work and progress. “I had Patrick [Mason] as my director, I had Maureen Toal as my lead actor in The Factory Girls and I had Sean McCarthy as literary editor and none of them were a pushover, nor indeed do they expect you to be a pushover.”
He says it was always clear to him that in theatre you have to “fight your corner and you better not try to overplay your hand or not try to indulge yourself, they wouldn’t let you away with it”
Now looking back on it that was very scary and very hard but i’m very grateful to it.
“The theatre is no place for weaklings, I’m afraid.”
That said he also calls the theatre “a caring place, you’re looked after, particularly when you’re younger you are looked after and as you get older you are minded as well”.
“But it is expected that you will be able to carry on tradition and that you will mind people and you will not make excessive demands on who you’re working with because they are liable to go so far and no further with you and that’s a very useful lesson in any profession.”
A Joycean obsession
Moving from theatre to books – The Woodcutter and his Family is his second work of fiction – why decide to write about Joyce? It stems from an “undeniable” obsession with the Ulysses author since his teens, when he heard Joni Mitchell on RTÉ radio reading the opening pages of Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.
The young McGuinness had never heard the like of it, he says. “I didn’t know much of what was going on but I certainly still loved what he was doing and ever since then I’ve wanted to come to terms with this obsession in a creative way.”
I thought that the story of his death and involving the four key players in that scenario, himself, the wife, the daughter and the son would be a very exciting challenge and a very threatening and creative challenge.
He wanted it to be short – as it’s so intense – and got to explore his love of the folk tale with the final part of the book.
And so back to his college days again, and the very room we’re sitting in. Does he do most of his writing there? He says he’s based there most days, with a heavy teaching load. “But I use the room for my research, I use it to prepare my teaching, I use it for my writing, I use it for just general taking stock of what is what in terms of the whole career.”
“The one great thing about teaching is it’s solid, you know what you have to do, you know when you have to do it. Absolutely the opposite with playwriting, you never know what is coming around the corner, you really never do and you never know who’s going to be in the train coming around the corner.”
He works between his office and his house, handwriting everything in copybooks before typing them out (he types with one finger so often drafts in someone to type things up for him).
“I find that I can write in most places like hotel rooms, I’ve written stuff in hotel rooms and I’ve written stuff in friends’ houses and I can write in Donegal but I’ve been very lucky in that respect and I can write at any time of the day or night. When I smoked many years ago I used to work up until two or three in the morning. I can’t do that now without the fags actually,” he laughs.
Those who want to pursue writing themselves will find some solace in McGuinness’s description of his writing process.
“I just generally try to keep going. I find it tough to get started and I find it tough to fill the first twenty pages and I’m glad in a way it’s such an effort to do that because once I do get to page 20 I’m not going to stop, I’m going to keep going to the end.”
He loves that when it comes to writing, he can never truly know what is going to happen.
“I love when I know what I’m doing and I know where I’m going and all of that, but the great joy of writing for me is that I convince myself when I start anything that I know what’s going to happen, I know how it’s going to end,” he says.
And I can say now after more than 30 years of writing: it never ever ends the way you think it is, there’s always a shock in store for yourself when you’re actually structuring your story be it a play a novel or a poem. There’s always some shock that you really didn’t think was going to hit you and I think you need that shock for the joy writing to come through.
But he sometimes feels a sense of terror – that his ability to write might just stop. “Maybe it’s not going to happen again, and you live with that and it gets no easier, that terror,” he admits.
“But you have to recognise that it’s part of the challenge of writing itself – that you have to endure that.”
The Irish Book Awards take place on Tuesday 28 November. Video and editing by Andrew Roberts.
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When you call a climate emergency and then pump millions into the emissions spewing beef sector. Typical FG talking out of both sides of their mouth
@tofu for tea: You’re right. Ban farming in this country altogether. Put a few hundred thousand people out of work. And import all our meat and dairy products at a hugely inflated price. Thatl show em.
@tofu for tea: So lose jobs, put people out of work.. send more people abroad to never return, and importing beef is what you want?
….riiiiight
@Damien: in a world of climate breakdown people can’t carry on as normal, you do realise that? There is a need to seriously cut back on meat and dairy both for the planet and our health
@tofu for tea: FG should putting in concrete plans to transition farmers into cultivating more crops and protein rich foods. Teenagers these days are moving away from meats, beef in particular. Problem is FG only think as far as the next election.
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: totally agree, we need innovative solutions, not more of the same
@tofu for tea: People just need to travel less, the amount of fuel burnt on an atalantic flight is far more damaging than eating a steak once a day for a few years.
@tofu for tea: People have lived in full health and to a ripe old age on a diet of meat and dairy products for generations. If you read every health food article and ticked off every single food that was supposedly bad for you. Then your daily diet would consist of certain types of fruit and water.
@Damien: it’s not about even if it’s healthy for you or not though at this stage. It’s about saving the planet. More efficient methods of transport and techniques in agriculture (and what we grow/produce).
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: Growing more crops instead of beef isn’t really the best solution. The fertility levels of Irish soil varies a lot, the land to the east and south of the shannon are more suited to tillage, and produce a much higher yield than the west of the country. In the wetter climate west of the shannon, grass is the best crop for the area, hence why we have so many beef and dairy farms in Ireland. Also, in general, replacing beef farms with tillage is not a simple solution, and also comes with extra risks. Grass land does not get many pesticides sprayed on the land, unlike cereals and veg. Soil erosion is another factor.
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: Skynet will have defeated the human resistance by 2029. I’m going to eat and drink well before the machines take over.
@Do the Bort man: I know, it’s a complex problem. The soggy land of Connacht isn’t suited to much only rearing sheep. I previously would have been against genetically modifying food but it could be a necessity in years to come to sustain the population of Africa and for us to produce crops we never would have. Either that or have greenhouses everywhere.
@Damien: that’s 10 solid years of leisure ahead of you, Damien. All the best!
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: Just hoping Mayo win Sam before they take over.
@Damien: there are 70,000 full time farmers in Ireland.
Stop eating beef, save the Planet
@Charles McGuire: 2% of global emissions are from air travel.
20% of irish emissions are from farming.
@tofu for tea: Vegans are worse for our health than meat.
@Charles McGuire: 225 pounds of greenhouse gas per cow per day, thats 246,000 pounds in 3 years.
159,000 pounds produced by a plane from dublin to new york.
You sir are wrong.
@ciar0: There are 137,000 registered farms in Ireland. There are many part time farmers as well .
@Damien: there are 70,000 full time farmers, solely relting on farming income.
Even includong labourers and contractors its a long way shy of your figures
@ciar0: it’s 30% from irish agriculture. We produce 1000% of our own needs so it’s roughly 3%for feeding our population. EU is 4.32% and America 2.8% but they use gm which gives them an advantage. Globally it’s 18%. Mainly due to deforestation to produce palm oil. Ironically being anti beef farmer will drive down price and put traditional family farming practices which are practically carbon neutral according to bbcs truth on climate change program out of business and encourage higher intensified farm units which are anything but.
@Damien: don’t worry, Damien. You won’t have to wait long…….this is our year….
@Doubtchya Boy!: go back to proper farming, tillage, cattle and sheep. Farmers are afraid of hard work these days.
@tofu for tea: how many jet engines are in the air flying right now?
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: Get those pesky annoying Rossies out of the way on Saturday week first. They’re carried away after beating Leitrim already.
@Damien: feckin Rossies always get carried way, the poor lads. You have to lose a couple of All Irelands before you get your licence to get properly carried away.
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: I’ve being told by their supporters that they have the best 6 forwards in the country, for the last 10 years apparently.
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer: beef is high protein
@Damien: let them believe that shur. Feel bad taking all hope away from them. Although they’ve had a decent showing the last few years tbf to them.
@Ole dan tucker: serious? I thought they were just blubbery fat .
@ciar0: so what percentage of global emissions is created by the 20% of Irish farming emissions
I’ve huge sympathy for the beef farmers but should taxpayers money be used to rescue a failing private enterprise? This move is subsidizing the low price that is charged for beef in the supermarkets and the even lower prices paid to farmers. If a fair price was paid for beef that reflected the cost of producing it then subsidies would not be needed.
@Sean: good point. You could level that charge at a lot of food in this country. It’s effectively subsidised. We need to start sourcing food from local markets and taking away some of the buying power from big supermarkets.
The problem is, people don’t really care about our fellow citizens at all. if you had an Irish steak and a Brazilian steak side by side in Lidl, people will always buy the cheapest item, regardless of where its from. Its the same with veg, people will buy imported veg from the multinational at a below cost price, while ignoring the home grown veg, and the carbon footprint the imported veg left to get to Ireland, and in the next breath, they will blame the Irish famers for climate change…..
@Do the Bort man: That’s not true.
@Do the Bort man: Farmers are not solely responsible for climate change but they contribute more than their fair share.
Likewise polluting rivers, not all their fault but a lot of river pollution is down to farming.
Exporting live animals is cruel but hey once a farmers gets a few quid to subsidise income from his full time job thats ok
@Do the Bort man: not necessarily, I’d pay a few euros more for good quality Irish beef.
@Mushy Peas: so do I, but the majority of people don’t give a dam where their food comes from, they just care about the price. Then they can’t understand why these “rich” farmers are complaining about falling farm incomes.
@Sean: i presume as a hard pressed taxpayer in dublin i can look forward to some reductions in the price of a burger in a pub or burger joint now – ive noticed they have been steadily creeping up in recent years – imagine 11.50 for a burger in some places – i presume there are some benefits to subsidized beef ?! What — there arent ? What – rip off republic continues to squeeze middle income taxpayers to help farmers but there no benefits – f@@@ that
While i have no doubt that many farmers could benefit from such support, this has all the hallmarks of FG making sure their core vote stays with them.
There must be an election on the way.
@Dave Doyle: you mean you haven’t seen any of the 50 million posters beautifying our wonderful country ?
@Seriously stunned: you mean the ones that have faded and had to replace because they took the typically tight FG route of buying cheap posters instead of the proper UVA and UVB protected ones??
@Bruce van der Gutschmitzer:
Maybe they are biodegradable……
@Patrick Nolan: well that’s a lot of waste replacing biodegradable ones with more expensive uva and uvb protected ones. Symptomatic of FG policy-find the cheap option, it fails and end up paying more in the long run.
During the recession there wasn’t 50 mil made available to the self employed and were treated with scorn
In about a months time, after the election, the farmers could be asking, “what about the 50 million?”, and creed could be saying “what 50 million?”
Farmers always want something for nothing. Its too wet I need money. Its too dry I need money.
I cant sell the milk I produce I need subsidies.
Moan moan moan.
@ciar0: and we all want our food for next to nothing as well. I’m not going to bat for farmers, but average farm incomes are fairly shite and most people wouldn’t do it.
But we still need to eat, so where do we get our food from? We’re slitting our own throats by artificially keeping food prices low for the all-consuming consumer.
If we weren’t all getting screwed by financial cartels, we could afford to pay a decent price for food. And farmers would get their fair share.
@jamesdecay: 100% correct James.
From constant adjournment of court cases to fatten legal profession salaries and Garda overtime to insurance cartels to temporary usc to inflated mortgage interest rates and so on and so on. But never discussed on clickbait “news” pages or on fine gaels personal tv channel rte.
@ciar0: just like the homeless…..
I have worked for, and am surrounded by farmers all my life… if its not prices its the weather they are crying about.. they are subsidised for everything they do by the EU. No other industry is as well looked after. Every tractor I see on the road is top of the line John Deere. None of them are old.
Contrast this 50 million that the government WILL give with the lady on the Joe Duffy show yesterday whose child has SMA and WILL die from it, if the Dept of Health don’t approve the purchase of a certain drug. There are only 23 children in Ireland with this condition and the parents have been looking for the drug for years.
This country and government have things all backwards in my opinion.
@Johnny Rielly: Only one thing you can do so Johnny —–Buy a piece of land yourself and start farming. I feel confidant that with your knowledge you’ll make a huge success of it.
@John Mc Donagh: You won’t buy it, you will be outbid by other farmers who also receive handouts from the taxpayer but still want more land. Better inherit one. No commercial rates, multiple handouts, no need to worry like other private enterprises do about finding markets for your produce, just protest when prices drop even if nobody wants it.
Do not set up your own cooperative to build your own factories to process your own beef, if you do – flog it when someone waves a cheque in your face.
Where’s the fishermen’s money??
I’m no fan of the beef industry but for those of us that recall the pork dioxin ‘crises’ about 10 years ago you may remember that a compensation fund of €195m was made available to the ‘industry’ for a few days of lost production. I guess that the beef lobbyists to FG don’t have the same weight as the pork lobbyists had with Minister Brendan Smith FF back in the day……..just saying
@Frank Jones:
The pork barrel is bigger than the beef barrel!
Jesus how is this helping climate change??
@Marianne: by speeding up the process of eliminating humans, so the earth can start again without them.
Betcha that the big beef barons will try to grab it all. Needs to be carefully administered!!
The farmers that heckled Leo in cork were well rewarded. Fair play to them…. but had they been protesting against hospital over crowding, homelessness,housing crisis, or the many other scandals involving this FFG government the story would not have been as kind as it was to the farmers.
It might interest some people to know the average income of suckler farmers last year: €11,670
The support could be worth €1250 per farmer.
Food must always be in oversupply. Otherwise people could not go to work. The implications of oversupply is the primary producers get a very poor price and could not continue to invest in producing what they do. Only the best countries in the world are sufficiently organised to support its primary producers. For the rest, it’s a subsistence existence. In real terms, food in Ireland and the EU is both cheap and plentiful. Support for primary producers has worked very well for everybody.
Great to be part of EU.
So the govt can come up with 50m in a heart beat here but nothing for Tralee IT who owe a miserly 10m. Meanwhile I have to travel to work on a 10 year old cie bus every morning with over 5 million miles on it. What an absolute load of b@110x.
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