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ON TUESDAY EVENING, it emerged that an order had been sent to every station in Dublin by the Assistant Commissioner Pat Leahy banning all overtime for the month of December.
Members of An Garda Síochána were shocked, so too were the reporters covering the issue. It had seemed that there would be no overtime in what would be considered one, if not the busiest time of the year for our police force.
However, after much clarification and to-and-fro both by Garda management and the Taoiseach in the Dáil yesterday afternoon, it emerged that overtime in December would be paid as it would come from next year’s Garda budget.
Even so, what this means now is that all Garda overtime between now and Monday coming is cancelled.
In the grand scheme of things, members have accepted it. However, for four days, many Dublin gardaí now feel helpless.
TheJournal.ie contacted a number of members of the force and asked them if they could tell us what the overtime ban would mean to their daily routines.
Mayhem
One said:
“When we heard it down the station first, we actually thought it was a joke. Then it sank in and we were confused. Kind-of looking at each other saying ‘at Christmas?’.
I don’t want to go into specifics of what I wouldn’t be able to do but for the next week I’m clocking in to do paperwork and then I’m out. But there was mayhem here for a few hours anyway and I suspect there’ll be mayhem until Monday.
Another member added:
“Suppose somebody comes into my station and said ‘Right – Joe Bloggs around the corner is doing something with drugs’ – as in maybe he’s getting a kilo sent to his house to be cut on a certain day.
We couldn’t go in on someone’s word – we can’t do that. There’d be surveillance to be done and also asking other members familiar with that area to have a chat. That’s the kind of added work that gets a case over the line and that needs overtime. So to be out of it for over a month would be madness. But the four days is bad enough anyway.
Another garda told us that any planned arrests would not happen, there’d be no supervision in stations and, for some areas of Dublin, it means that there will be no anti-crime patrols in areas which see a lot of anti-social behaviour.
Other members said that until Monday there would no extra crime beats and no detentions for serious crime outside normal duty hours.
The message from one member summed up the feeling within gardaí:
No overtime effectively cripples us.
After criticism from rank-and-file organisation the GRA yesterday morning, the force issued a statement on the issue yesterday afternoon. All overtime would be covered from early next month as the 2018 budget money is to kick in then, it said:
“An Garda Síochána’s budget for 2018 starts on Monday 4 December and from that day overtime will then be available to regional, division and district officers for policing delivery within the overtime budget allocated to them. All officers will be reminded of the clear need for them to stay within allocated budgets.
Policing services will continue, including tackling organised crime (Op Hybrid in the DMR), Operation ‘Thor’ the nationwide anti-burglary initiative, as well as routine road safety initiatives.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, in response to a question from Fianna Fail’s Micheál Martin, also confirmed in the Dáil that any funding for overtime in December will be taken out of the 2018 budget as wages are not paid until the new year.
“I would have hoped Garda management would have been aware of that,” he said.
Speaking to RTÉ Radio One’s Morning Ireland yesterday, the President of the Garda Representative Association (GRA) Ciaran O’Neill said that overtime was being used to supplement the force because there were insufficient numbers of gardaí servicing the State.
“Overtime is the cheapest form of policing and it has been used in the past to fill the numbers,” O’Neill said.
With reporting by Christina Finn
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Could they not just pull the overtime out of their arse, like they did with the breath tests?
@Dj: or maybe we could ask criminals to keep more sociable hours, or courts to make some changes to how long we can keep people in custody to align with rostered hours?
@Eyepopper: or maybe do the jobs they are paid for without lying all the time
@Richard Cronin: huh? What the f×k are you talking about? You think a Garda should stop, say questioning a suspect, because its time for them to clock off? Or not carry out a dawn raid on a suspect? Because thats the reality of this.
@Declan Hegarty: This message will self destruct in 5.4.3.2.1 …
@Eyepopper: What the f@#k are you on about? Did you not notice that the gardè have been caught out lately for telling porkies about the hours they are doing, don’t you think some punishment may be in order to get a bit of discipline back? Or are you taking you cues from Fred?
There needs to be more accountability for how overtime is spent though. Some guards waiting around to arrest/ interview suspects when their overtime kicks in is not on.
@Karen Doyle: and would you have any examples of that actually happening? Or are you just chatting 5hit?
@Karen Doyle: most detentions ate for 6 hours and anything over that needs to be authorised so younarebcompletely talking through your ass
@Karen Doyle: Thanks for this – it was always my understanding that if a garda arrested someone and the due process, interview, investigation and charging, etc. ran over the end of a shift then the process was completed on overtime, or else the suspect would have to be released without charge. Whether this is done by deliberate action or in response to a 999 call or other follow up action is immaterial, the fact remains that the garda may incur overtime in this type of situation.
The ways to avoid it include not arresting anyone other then at the beginning of a shift (!!!) or changing the law and process to allow people be detained until interviewed instead of the current 24 hours, or change the process to avoid the arresting garda having to complete the process….
See if a garda arrests someone at 6am and their shift finishes at 8am and the suspect gets charged at 10am they the arresting garda may be required to attend at court to give evidence……….
I do think this needs to be reviewed, for example a court liaison person could give evidence in place of the garda, and I do think there needs to be accountability too, but maybe an FOI request on how the money is spent would provide more information
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: how about a system where they can hand over the arrest to another guard who is on duty? Like, you know, everywhere else. Am I right in hearing this is only until Monday, so they can go back to unaccountable, non transparent, overtime again in time for working from Dec 4th on?
They haven’t given any good examples why it would be a problem. Fairly generic answers about normal parts of their jobs. I have to say that anytime I’ve had the misfortune of having to have something stamped or signed by Gardai in a station they don’t seem the least bit rushed or overworked.
I work for a large MNC, we get no overtime at all. The overarching attitude is ‘work until you get your work done’. I have great freedom as a result, work a few extra hours Monday through Thursday and take a 3 day weekend. Why isn’t there this type of system across the board?? Overtime is such an archaic concept, there has to be a more logical solution.
@ForeverFeel1ng: ye all the guards should work monday to thursday 12 hours shifts and take the rest of the week off. Actually why stop there!!! Get doctors, nurses and the fire brigade to do the same.
@ForeverFeel1ng:
Do you get the fact that some jobs need to be done at specific times and cannot be done in advance?
To help you with your thinking, Imagine you worked in Dunnes on the till. Could you serve lots of people on a Monday to negate the need to come into work on a Tuesday?
@ForeverFeel1ng: and I’d say you are a credit to that Mnc :-)
@birdseye: leave her off. She’s on the wind-down. It’s the start of her weekend!!!!
@ForeverFeel1ng: just ignore them – they work in the system and are happy enough to moan about how inefficient it is and never improve it. If you look at the examples given by the guards above, then they could all be resolved by flexibility -i.e. of you arrest someone and need to be there for an extra 30minutes, can you record this time and take it in lieu later during a non busy time instead of choosing overtime and having a new shift guard sitting in the corner doing nothing. Any business would look for efficiencies where things don’t work, but in the ps, it’s money, money, money as the only answer, never “how can this work better and make life easier for the staff and the public”.
@Gulliver Foyle: but if they all took time in lieu then there would be less rostered shifts covered and a lack of resources? So isnt the answer as was raised by the GRA the other day to have the optimum staffing levels as recommended by the inspectorate rather than relying on overtime? They did suggest an option you just ignored it.
Are people forgetting the 2M or more fake breath test results. The 14,500 wrongful convictions for FCP’s, the penalty point scandal – ?? Ireland is being held to ransom by Gardai who have shown ya that it’s all about the overtime and the faking of results to get it. Then the threats “I’ll come in, do paperwork only and go home – if I don’t get my overtime”. When are the Gardai ever going to Cop on ? and realise that people can see through them now ???
@Rita Gleeson: held to ransom. Ya dramatic Queen…. Get a life. Bad mouth and do more for the justice system to punish the criminals and that would help ease overtime. No blame it on the cops and use the breathe tests as the beating stick… Clown
@Rita Gleeson: you do remember that the 2m fake breath tests were not done because there were insufficient resources or overtime to do them – but bad management insisted that they be done so the numbers got fudged a lot…. no excuse, but it is hard to stand up to managers and say “I have not the resources or time to be doing those tests while responding to a 99 call as well”…
@birdseye: @Niall Ó Cofaigh: Ya ya ya – all doing 99 calls all the time – is this a joke ? 14,000 Gardai employed – all wanting to pretend they are fighting major ganglands when there are just a few doing that – it’s all one big overtime scam – it doesn’t matter who directed the fake breath results – they were still falsified – 2 million of them – the amount of time and effort that went into that and probably lots of overtime claimed along the away too – it’s all one big joke and the Irish people can see that now.
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: contradicting yourself !! You just said they were not faked because because there were insufficient resources – then you say – try telling managers you don’t have enough resources. Are there any brains in this organisation at all. ?
When they have work to do they won’t do it.
Perhaps the Gardai should get out there in their spare time and publicly protest the treatment of their colleague Sgt McCabe by their superiors.But I guess, its all about them; not about fairer and more equitable policing.
@Moorooka Mick: perhaps if they were paid overtime they might
If I lived in rural Ireland, I’d go vigilante. If the Gardai are not there for you, then they are not there for the bad guys. Quick dispatch and proper concealment and job done !
@David Conroy: funny story…the sergeant called out to me once over an overdue gun licence. Part of the licence is getting a farmer to allow to shoot on their land. I asked the sergeant if it was really necessary seeing as I only had my gun for protection because I had a lot of tools in my workshop. She never even batted an eyelid. They don’t want to know, and its not the first time that has been said either. Reasonable force is now law and I’ve no problem exercising the law
Genuine question, can a Garda be rostered to work, say 1pm to 9pm as a days work, without ‘overtime’ kicking in?
@paddlingAlong: 10hr shifts….
@paddlingAlong: yeah, they can, but lets say they arrest someone at 8.55pm, should they just let them go because they have to clock off in 5 minutes and its going to take 2 hours to get the guy booked in?
I laughed when I heard the AGSI Rep. on the 9o’clock news mention “what about the drunk driving and roads policing?” – since when have Gardai cared about road safety ? When they faked over 2 Million Breath tests ? They must think the Irish people are extremely dumb and have the shortest memories ever ? And you can’t live without overtime for 4 days ?? Get real – this is really about – the big pay cheques before Christmas – they don’t give a damn about road safety.
@Rita Gleeson: ah ye no they don’t give a Dam about Road safety. Just because the figures were skewed doesn’t mean the checkpoints weren’t carried out. Sure just a cop car on the side of the road is going to have a positive effect on traffic behaviour… So you are talking out your ar5e
@birdseye: Ah ya the numbers were skewed !! I think you mean falsified !!! Not skewed – falsified !!! It’s being fully investigated now anyway isn’t it – so we will see who exactly was involved in the falsification !!!
Haven’t seen a cop out my way in 5 years, but us in the sticks don’t count
@Aidan O Reilly: Have you not moved for 5 years? Perhaps they pass at night when you’re asleep? Or during the day when you’re in work? Or any of the other times that you’re not standing there staring out your window?
People have to Remember that this is Pat Leahy the first appointment from the PAC, so he is not a politician or part of the boys club, I think it’s good that were going to see a change, someone honest at the top maybe, so far steapaside not his no1 priority, not enough gaurds to cover everything (the overtime) next not enough resources, equipment, the government are going to hate him coz he will be honest and doesn’t have to Browne nose anyone or tow the political line
Overtime isn’t a perk of any job, and shouldn’t be treated as such. It’s a bad culture to rely on it.
It’ high time now that the massive gulf in pension payment sizes between private and public employees is so evident that any future increases or perks in the public sector is hinged on a direct reduction from their future pension payments.
The only thing that will be crippled is their pay packets. Heart bleeds for them.
For the last time WE DONT NEED THE APPLE TAX MONEY
@podgelyne:
That’s lucky because it is not our money even if Apple lose their appeal. It’s good to hear it’s the last time you will mention it though
Criminals don’t work office hours.They work 24/7.
@Brian O Reilly: then policing should reflect that. Over time should be considered an exceptional short-term solution. If they need more people then so be it. However, there is a trust thing missing here after all their carry-on with deliberate inaccurate data inputting.
clearly a gravy train given the time of year. i know a few lads that consider the right to overtime to be part of their contract.
in this case it looks like garda management were getting the overrun out the in the open and allowing ownership to be assumed by others. smart move and appears to have solved the problem for those that should be more accountable.
Boo hoo
Sounds like a lot of crying going on
Q all the hard a reps out in force on rate and radio
I would love to know the statistics on how many gardai we have now with almost 1million more people living here since 2000 and how many gardai we had back then. That should gave a good indication if all this overtime is really necessary.
@C_O’S: all inspectorate reports have shown force has never reached optimum staff levels so it makes it redundant really. As was pointed out by the GRA overtime is actually cheaper for successive governments than actually having required staff numbers.
what was the figure, 60million roughly?
Well that boils down to 5 million a month and bad management allowed that to be in excess but historically departments went back to the government for supplementary budgets to cover cost overruns. Was it the HSE last year?
The real solution is in part to recruit more Gardai and in part to change the system whereby a garda cannot go home at the end of a shift but may have to wait around for the courts to open. This could be negated if the garda time taken to process suspects outside of their shift hours could be granted back as leave in lieu of overtime – but only works of there are sufficient garda to cover that time off in lieu.
Many people do not think of the consequences of not being able to finish work at a particular designated time but having to work on extra hours
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: Ya ya ya – all doing 99 calls all the time – is this a joke ? 14,000 Gardai employed – all wanting to pretend they are fighting major ganglands when there are just a few doing that – it’s all one big overtime scam – it doesn’t matter who directed the fake breath results – they were still falsified – 2 million of them – the amount of time and effort that went into that and probably lots of overtime claimed along the away too – it’s all one big joke and the Irish people can see that now.
8mins ago
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: contradicting yourself !! You just said they were not faked because because there were insufficient resources – then you say – try telling managers you don’t have enough resources. Are there any brains in this organisation at all. ?
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