18, and for new entrants 20. And if you think this is easy work, you are welcome to try.

Tadhg, leave TUI and join ASTI, there should really be only one secondary school teacher union.

The mix of lecturer and secondary teachers in TUI makes it fragmented with a split in its focus.

Eric, am I right saying that you can’t change Union during a dispute?

No I meant no disrespect. Some friends of mine who lecture are involved in a dispute themselves. They see themselves as teachers and just want to lecture but their institution are trying to get them to do more research. It seems like the skill sets are not necessarily easily matched and they feel there should be two roles. Interested on getting your own take on this though.

James, I have colleagues like that as well – it is not easy doing research on top of the 20 hours, and people give up. I don’t agree with the split between teachers and researchers. Research is supposed to inform your teaching and bring the students to the cutting edge in your area. ITs want to become more like universities, but with double the teaching load. At the end, it is the students who ate shortchanged.

I never heard of that, it may be true or not.

But TUI be accepting this vote are not in dispute.

I must admit this vote surprised me, I have a few friends in TUI schools and they claim new JC English is wishy washy with lots of extra paperwork.

TUI basically accept a 2% increase over 3 years. While the luas earned themselves 18.5% over the same period.

@Tadhg is correct about that, Eric.

I voted no as did a lot of my colleagues and we are second level. So disappointed with the result. Disappointed and shocked. This agreement does not deal with pay parity and I’m embarrassed that our Executive recommended a YES vote.

It’s interesting that one of the potential successors to the current president was suggesting we vote no.

Bit more informative than yours Eoin. Anything in there you want to dispute. All fact you will find.

Don’t mind James and Mindful. No feeding the trolls. Bitter over their career choice, it seems.

Extremely happy with my career choice but it appears you still don’t want to actually dispute anything in my comment.

Well tell me, how am I not “trained to my job”? That is a ridiculous comment. Unless you are in fact a teacher or lecturer, you wouldn’t have a clue how well trained I am. But I am very sorry that you don’t get 3 months holidays a year.

I’m fully aware of the avenues you take to become a teacher. And secondary school teachers are left with classes without supervision, monitoring, performance reviews, or training. You are just educated. And no your teachings practice does not constitute training as two visits to monitor you does not count as coaching.

Tell me more about how successful teachers around the world are monitored? Because the US teachers are scored based on their students performance and their system is in a heap. South Korea (and Japan) has a good system, but all of their students do their learning in night school and spend their “day-school” sleeping in class. Counter productive, right?
You do know Irish teachers are subject to assessment, through subject or whole school inspections?
What industry do you work in? How are you assessed? Because in my three careers, I’ve never come across a fair method of assessment.

Ah lads save your ire for the luas drivers, who should have been fired long ago and deserve nothing.

I have no problem paying Guards, teachers and nurses more money. It’s a tough and important job. But it needs to be affordable for the country, can’t go back to the ridiculous pay claims that bankrupted us and led us to go cap in hand to the Germans and Brits for a bailout.

I’ll row in behind that Fred. Best of luck in all our jobs tomorrow lads! Good night.

James. Do you spent 4 to 5 hrs in the evening preparing you next day’s work? I do. Do you spend your holidays rewriting schemes of work and putting mid-term plans in place? Do you go home and worry about people under your care that you feel are slipping? I do. Do you carry the awful responsibilty of having to get police inolved when a child is not quite ready to take the step, and later agonize whether you have done the right thing or not? Or maybe James, you just go home and don’t worry about work much till the next day. But I understand. Very few people who have not done this job have the ability to think what it must be like to carry a generation’s future in your hands. I went to school in the 70s, and if your comments refer to teachers of that era (pot luck if you got a good one) then I can understand. Those days and those teachers are gone. I love my job, but all these holidays you speak of are a figment of your imagination. Maybe a glimse of the past. My work never ends, but I truly love it and really care about my kids. This, however, does not mean I will be a doormat for governmental policy.

Soz about typos. Fingers like shovels.

Ian i absolutely have similar responsibilities in my current role. But the point is this. You are in the minority clearly in how you effectively you plan and hold yourself up to be a role model for your kids. The facts are we are not using best practice to educate our kids. Our education system in direct conflict with the psychology on learning on development. This is not opinion it’s a fact.

Wow good to know you’ve been to every classroom in the country. Any facts or studies to back up how the majority of teachers are poor educators? Actually any way of backing up any of your huge generalisations? No education system is perfect. All of them constantly change, but to have a go at teachers who are trying to work under a broken system is ridiculous. Also anyone that finishes their point with ‘fact’ and has stated zero facts is deluded.