Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
Updated 18.40
EVERY SCHOOL in Ireland should operate generic school uniforms and run mandatory book rental schemes, under plans published by politicians today.
The Oireachtas committee on education also wants workbooks to be banned, and voluntary contributions to schools to be banned – or, at the very least, very tightly controlled.
The proposals are contained in a report published this afternoon which followed a year of hearings, including evidence from the Government and several charities.
Other recommendations include the establishment of finance committees at every school to get a full understanding of the costs faced by pupils and parents.
The overall thrust of the report – compiled by Labour TD Aodhán Ó Riordáin, a former school principal – is to ensure that the notion of free education is not undermined by the rising cost of enrolling a child in school.
“Placing financial barriers on parents restricts their capacity to be fully involved in school life,” the report says, criticising a vacuum of leadership from the bodies which patronise the country’s primary schools.
The report noted that some schools had begun to make their ‘voluntary’ contributions mandatory – to the point where some were even asking for the payment when parents were applying for a school place that they might not necessarily receive.
While many schools kept this payment to €60 or lower, some submissions to the committee said parents were being asked to pay €264 in ‘voluntary’ payments to assist the running of the school.
The report also notes the costs of school trips which are often billed as voluntary but effectively compulsory for students – and how these can place massive social pressure on families who have lost significant income since the economic boom.
“In the case cited by the Society of St Vincent de Paul, one mother, in extreme financial difficulty, went to her daughter‘s post primary school with €200 (out of the combined weekly Social Welfare payment of €320 for herself, her husband and her daughter) towards her daughter’s trip which cost €640,” it said.
“If she had not made the payment deadline her daughter would have been denied a place and faced stigmatisation.”
Free education
Ó Ríordáin, the report’s rapporteur, has called for the recommendations to be implemented in full and for school patron bodies to demonstrate leadership in aiding the reduction of costs on parents.
It is important for us to move beyond the aspirational notion of ‘cherishing all the children of the nation equally’. We need a truly free and publicly-funded education system that delivers for our children.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
“Voluntary” Contributions have been mandatory for years now. Once had an argument with my principal for not paying. Told him my folks couldn’t afford the voluntary fee that year. He said they had to pay it. I replied that if that was the case then my English teacher had to be sacked for not teaching the correct meaning of voluntary. Cheeky? You bet, but it was the last year I was hounded for it when we couldn’t afford it.
Never happened.
My folks used to get reminder letters..
“It has come to our attention that you have not yet paid the voluntary contribution of £80″
You’ve gotta love that.. Not only are you being sent a reminder letter for something that you allegedly pay of your own volition, but they are nice enough to tell you how much you are “volunteering” too.. The girls who’s parents were a little more well off were often asked for a much larger sum too..
All good suggestions however the reason schools need to look for contributions is because they are underfunded so will the government be supplying public funds to replace this ? The workbooks system is a joke what happened to a book and then the answers go into a copy book or a4 pad the book companies laughing all the way to the bank .
I agree completely Darren Moore, When my son started in Primary he had 2 workbooks, one for Irish and one for Maths, the rest was done in one of his 7/8 copies, he has only finished Second Year …. Last Year I had to fork out 95€ for my youngest who is just finishing First Class and 115 € for the other who is just finishing 4th class… this was for their ‘Renting’ of books and their WorkBooks… plus 25€ each for photocopying / arts and crafts, then their school tour was another 35€ and 28€ and then they have fund raising non uniform days which are 2€ a pop, and the bake sales. There is a positive though because they do a ‘Swapsie’ event in the last week of school in December and June where you can call in with your ‘grown out of’ uniforms and swap for a bigger size….. This August I will have to fork out for 2 new ‘sets’ of School Crested Tracksuits which they will NOT sell separately, ie I have to get top and bottoms…Free Education me arse!!!!
About bloody time! Been calling it for years on this.
Our politicians have been calling for it for years as well. But oddly never manage to do anything about it.
My sentiments exactly. the french have been renting textbooks for years.
Its all very fine and well having nice cheap generic uniforms,
But you know some schools will still demand a crest on all jumpers etc, and you just know that crest will cost like 30e
Barry, I’m sure any law regarding generic uniforms will also include a ban on crests unless the school provide them free of charge, otherwise the law is utterly pointless.
Wow an Oireachtas committe that comes up with excellent suggestions! Here’s hoping that they’ll be acted on.
Good work, people.
This is a great idea. But definitely get rid of “voluntary” contributions entirely. Find the money to fund schools properly from wherever possible. Investing in education is the most obvious thing in the world I would have thought. It has incredible economic benefits that are returned at multiples of the initial investment.
How about an ereader for every kid in the country, loaded with course books.
Too much sense i suppose.
Once it’s a generic type where software can be changed updated without negating warranty and locking you into s fixed system. Apple im looking at you
Vat on ereaders and ebooks. No vat on printed material
And e books should be cheaper. No handling, storage, printing, logistics etc.
True ebooks are classed as a service so attract highest rate of vat. Printed books are zero vat (unless they have cd or dvd).
Ye have to pay for the books on top of the e-reader.
Great idea. No heavy bags for kids
This is a good idea, can be very difficult for some parents to school their kids due to money problems. Books alone can cost a small fortune.
Give you an example of normal practice in another country…Two of my kids are in state school in England, uniform of majority of state schools can be bought in any supermarket or clothes shop very cheaply and are variations on a theme eg grey/navy skirts/pinafores/trousers with a specified school colour from red/blue/yellow/green for jumpers/summer dresses etc. All very simple and as long as you reflect the right colour ( in my case navy/blue/grey) then anything goes. In terms of school books, there are no books bought by parents, kids work with worksheets and photocopies supplied by school, with computer programmes such as mathletics/spellodrome etc etc or direct from the board/teachers instruction and all copybooks are supplied by the school. Homework is also a ( often haphazardly) photocopied instruction/ page stuck into each childs large homework copybook. Reading books etc are reused year on year and housed in school and sent home nightly/weekly dependent upon ability/interest and there does not appear to be specific links with any one manufacturer/ supplier in my school. No charges apart from school trips/music lessons and despite the daily mail type grumbling about the state of state education, I have found it very good. Not sure why Irish schools cannot do similar, are they tied into updating curriculum and books annually by central department or what is the incentive to change set texts/use individual workbooks? Returning to Ireland soon so quite interested !
I remember using wipe clean boards in the first 2 years at school in the UK in the 80s and no homework.
I did most of my primary education in England in the 90′s, such a difference. We had all of that, just like you said. Only extra expenses were school trips and music lessons. How in the world has it taken the government here so long to wake up to this very simple idea? It cost us a small fortune to get our daughter all ready for junior infants last year, and already we’re being hit with costs for next September. All of this expense should be totally unnecessary.
My UK school also had its own swimming pool and lessons twice a week were free…. Cooked dinners too they were free for any kid whose parents were unemployed otherwise they were paid for but nothing to expensive and ee also got free snacks at small break, biscuits or fruit.
My child’s school just changed their school tracksuit in such a way that I won’t be able to buy a generic brand :(
Wouldn’t mind if they lasted but they’re crap quality and twice the price.
No vote held or anything I placed a negative comment in the box and it was ignored despite putting my name and phone number on! Going to have to something in September to frighten the Nazi like pta!!!!
Should do away with uniforms altogether. I went to a secondary with no uniform and it was fine. No bullying over who’s wearing what or anything stupid like that.
Lucky for you but unfortunately it is not so clear cut for other pupils.
Erica very strange teenagers you went to school with, no brand snobbery or awareness.
What could you possibly mean? Other countries do it just fine, what’s the big deal here?
Maybe she attended a Steiner school or similar
@Norman, brand snobbery? So we should stop people wearing their own clothes 24/7 then?
Whenever people mention no uniforms, people always being up this brand stuff. Show me evidence that it happens bad enough to justify mandatory uniforms.
@Rkmr, I just had to Google that because I’ve never heard of it, so no, I didn’t go to one of those schools.
Erica my reply was simple, children have been bullied for not wearing the “right”brands, this was cited as one of the reason’s for introducing a uniform.
I would definitely keep uniforms, generic ones would be great. Without uniforms schools turn into a big fashion show where kids who don’t have or can’t afford the latest fashions are ostracised.
The majority of European counties do not have uniforms, are they overrun with bully because of it???
My reply was simple too, show me evidence that it’s so rife?
I seem to be the only one on this thread that has had first hand experience in a non uniformed school, yet I’m being made out to be wrong? Funny that.
My partner spent 6-7 years in non uniformed schools and has not seen this ‘brand snobbery’ either.
My school had uniforms, but there was tons of bulling all the way down to people’s school bags, shoes, jackets, haircuts. They’ll always find something. Also, I hated having to wear a uniform, but I know it was used as a security measure for who was coming into the school (non students), and on school tours an that. I don’t know if this is meant to be the way, but it was in my school
I went to a non uniform school when I was in secondary & there was no bullying because of labels, it has since introduced a uniform, my daughter is in a no uniform primary and so far no problems, 3 years to go before she’ll have to wear one. I would prefer a non uniformed but that choice is not available
In any school I’ve taught in the mere mention of ‘rag day’ sends some kids into a panic. It’s not just the ‘brand elitism’ that frightens them as most are happy to shop in Penney’s for their clothes but it’s the fear of being judged for what they wear and how they wear it that causes the stress. Some students,especially the younger girls, are very uncomfortable with their bodies and the uniform affords some measure of concealment. Also the last thing students need is the added pressure of keeping up appearances along with the points race which to be honest has most of them very stressed at this point in time.
I’ve been very uncomfortable with my body as well, so my own clothes reflected that and concealed it well.
That’s a bullcrap argument, to be honest.
People are just afraid of change and uniforms are the norm here so no one wants to change that, but to be honest none of ye seem to have a clue.
Non uniformed schools are the majority in the first world, do you know why? Because there’s no reason good enough to have mandatory uniforms. The issues mentioned above aren’t widespread, in fact, as I’ve already said, I’ve never seen, or heard of it happening.
I’d really love to know why people feel the above issues are true, when in reality, they’ve never heard, or seen anyone experience it themselves.
How many of you even know of someone in a non uniformed school in the first place?
Thought so.
I’ve had these discussions countless times over the years with my students Erica and they themselves are happy to wear their uniform and if given the choice would want to wear a uniform. They feel it saves time, money and face…. Their words not mine.
What has that got to do with the fact that there’s no legitimate reason to have mandatory school uniforms?
As I’ve already said, people here hate change, asking students who don’t know any different isn’t exactly a worthy point.
‘asking students who don’t know any different isn’t a worthy point’ and yet they are the ones who have to wear them. No one is afraid to change the situation. But change must be in the best interests of those whom it will affect namely the students, their parents and the schools…uniforms are worn in many work places too and are used to great effect. There is a very legitimate and logical not to mention practical argument to be had for the wearing of uniforms whilst working or studying. It’s nothing got to do with denying individuality.
Erica, your good experience of school without uniforms is just that, your experience. The fact that you had no issues doesn’t change the fact that many more do. As I am familiar with the school listed on your Facebook profile I know it is a very progressive one with impressive results, However the idea of no uniform just doesn’t work as well in large community schools where the students come from diverse backgrounds, some well off, some barely making ends meet. Bullying is rife in our schools and cheap, generic uniforms are a proven and cost effective way to combat it.
I’m giving up now because ye’re clearly just blatantly ignoring facts. The majority of the first world have it this way and it’s fine, why wouldn’t it be here?
I feel like a broken record.
I agree Erica.
She is not saying here that uniforms are bad, merely that instead of listening to every parrot teacher who repeated the exact sentiments throughout the years.
I.E “bullying, labels, blah”
She is asking for evidence here, that’s all. She’s getting red thumbed because she asked fr evidence which would confirm your preconceived notions.
Bullies are horrible human beings to begin with, they don’t care if everybody’s got the same shoes, hair or god damn uniform, they will pick on you mercilessly.
None of the kids I know who wear a uniform would chose it, they would all prefer their own clothes. Bullying is not a valid reason as kids will bully no matter what, the instances of bullying has increased in our secondary school since the uniform came in but that is also because 2 schools amalgamated at the time so more pupils. I disagree with uniforms in school, as Erica has pointed out non uniforms schools operate well in other countries where bullying is not an issue.
Welcome to nth korea
Well said dump down at all costs
Well said. Dont like this. And i struggle With school costs for three. But the uniform thing is creepy. Book rental has only advantages however…kids learn respect, parents pay less and less paper waste.
Generic uniform doesn’t mean the same one in all schools, it’s just like generic drugs. All it means is no crest and more choice of manufacturer and shop to increase competition and drive prices down. Schools will still set the colour and style of uniform. Please know the facts before making such negative comments.
Book rental schemes do work and have been used in the secondary school I went to for yrs. I started secondary in 2002 and the school scheme had been running for yrs before that. We had to pay €100 each yr that covered insurance, a locker and rental fee for the books. Workbooks were supplied when required and u were offered the books span new if u wanted them or could get a second hand one. They fined u at the end of yr if book was damaged behond use or lost and needed to be replaced. After leaving cert each student got a cheque for €50 back once everything was returned. Only downfall… In exam yrs the exam papers had to be purchased at full price the school never bought them on bulk like the books ??
Exam papers don’t need to be purchased at all. They are freely available from the SEC’s website.
In my experience, the “value” added by the paid-for editions (sample answers etc.) are almost never used by teachers. Yet many still insist you buy them, and a particular publisher’s version too.
Definitely agree.. this should have happened years ago!
Sorry love if you can’t afford the 640 for your kids foreign school tour, you just say No. It happens ever day around the country.
You need to look at your parenting skills rather than expecting hand outs.
The book rental doesn’t work. My school had it and the books were all missing pages and worn out, oh and years out of fate
Unfortunately shane this is true, many people who avail of the free books have little regard for them. They often get returned with pages missing, answers written in and crude/sexual drawings. The book loan scheme is far from perfect in the real world.
Have the book checked by the schoole and parents when the student reviewed and returns the book. If its damaged then u pay for it
Unfortunately Graham some parents will then just refuse to pay for the book and blame it on another pupil. This happens quite regularly.
Anything that is free is abused.
I don’t know is that always the case… My secondary school and the one my brothers went to both had a book rental scheme and the books we were given were mostly in good condition. I didn’t actually realise that rental schemes weren’t in all schools until I went to college :o
@Aodan. Yep fair point, could really see that happening
I’m sure that if book rental becomes mandatory there will be systems in place to ensure that books are kept in good condition or paid for. Weekly inspections can take place with students repeatedly failing the inspection barred from the scheme. If books are damaged by another student, that’s bullying and should be treated as such by school management. If a damaged book is not reported by the student renting the book (or their parent/guardian) within a certain timeframe then make them liable for the cost. You can be sure they’ll report it next time!
Shane, if the books you were rented were of poor quality and out of date then you were not provided with the service you paid for. In these situations, it’s up to parents collectively to demand better.
Introduce a dress code over uniforms, just saved families €65 – €100
I think you’ll find that most parents want their children going to school in a uniform so long as it is reasonably priced. With a dress code the students wear up to 5 outfits a week rather than one with just changes of shirt/blouse. Much cheaper to wash a uniform than all those clothes. Secondly and more importantly uniforms create an equal playing field where there is no rivalry over the branding and style of clothing which leads to low self-esteem or worse, bullying.
Priorities people! If you can’t afford to send your child on a school trip then simply say no. This does not lead to stigmatisation- this is reality. Millions of parents do it everyday- if more did it, perhaps children would not expect everything to be handed to them on a plate.
The school my children went. To had a book rental scheme and a navy and blue uniform ,you could buy it wherever you liked .
The best school in Ireland Scoil an Tseacher Laoch Bailemunna
Anyone ask the teachers what they think about all this? Sure, why would ye?!
Why would the teachers care whether the students are using rented books or have bought them? Regarding workbooks, I know teachers prefer them because they are easier for the teachers to work with (faster to correct etc) but they are incredibly expensive to buy and environmentally not a good idea, and don’t help the children learn either.
I’m not talking about rented books. I think the book rental scheme is a good idea! In fact, I would like to see more textbooks as photocopying everything is such a waste and usually ended up in the bin. What I AM wary of is this massive rush to get tablets and ebooks, when currently we don’t even have enough desktop computers in school. Students have mobiles, laptops and tablets. School maybe the only place they actually get to experience an actual BOOK.
I agree with you there Kathryn, it is so important for kids to be exposed to books. And how many of us parents have had the expense of replacing phones, laptop screens etc because, lets face it, not all kids are great at minding their stuff…
I have recently moved house. As a result of this, my son who is due to start 6th class in September is moving to the local school. I received book list and criteria etc for new school yesterday. There is a book rental scheme (€25 for the year) and each child is given a number which is tagged on all books, therefore any damage he/she is liable for and has to surrender books if he/she is abusing the system.
In addition, school uniform is a generic colour! I am so impressed with this school already and he hasn’t even started yet.
The voluntary (mandatory) fee in his last school has been increased from €60 to €70 for next year for photocopying etc. That doesn’t include the €27-€30 (depending on the mood)for heating that has to be paid for each term. And of course the school tour + €50 , school play+€ 15 for each adult to watch ,swimming +€50, +French , +and Irish dancing for EACH term!!!! Only to name but a few..that’s on top of €400 I paid for uniform and books last sept!
Looking forward to the new school :)
All good ideas but its something we’ve all known for years. Don’t hold your breath.
Book rental scheme, good idea. Generic uniforms, bad idea. The uniform can be used to identify pupils as being from a specific school when they are outside the school grounds.
It’s only generic in the sense that it’s made by many manufacturers and widely available rather than one manufacturer and only a few shops. Schools will still have an identifiable uniform, only difference is it will be sold cheaply and without a crest.
iPads please.
My daughter had one in first year, as he finds it hard to study on and prefers paper books. She is looking to change school after her junior cert in 2015. The school bag still weighs a ton. IPad will be updated in the first week at school and we will have to purchase new books on it too. Oh and the books purchased are on license till july 2015.
Uh oh, Texas, Florida and Califonia better rethink there schooling practices then.
I’m not sure how big that catchment area is but it’s a little more than the population of Ireland.
This will be popular at Clongowes and Glenstal!
they changed our sports uniform in 5th yr then again in 6th yr and tried to give out to us for not buying the new uniform in the last yr of school when it was changed only a year earlier!
Generic uniform, shared resources…what next, thoughtcrime…plain old communism?
Rented books just make sense but I have a pain in my ass hearing parents moan about having to “hand over” and “fork out” for the best for their children. Who do they think should pay!?!
I am a secondary student and I agree with rental books and cheaper uniforms but….. generic uniforms come on do not take the different uniforms away from the schools. Instead encourage more schools to do second hand uniforms they are in my school and are cheaper than buying a new uniform and the clothes are in great condition.
I think you misunderstand the term “generic uniform”. It doesn’t mean that every school will have the same uniform. All it means is that there is no crest or other styling which could only be made by one manufacturer and sold in specific shops. Schools can still say what colour jumpers, shirts, blouses, ties, skirts, pinafores or trousers to wear, there is simply more choice as to where you purchase them.
Great idea!! I think nearly every parent would agree!
Instead of generic uniforms have a standard price on all uniform items and bring the cost down.
have your say