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Sam Boal

Independents more stable than the Greens in government, says minister as weekend deadline set for deal

The deadlines for getting a deal done have been successfully pushed back in recent days.

TRANSPORT MINISTER SHANE Ross has said Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil should “undoubtedly” go into government with the Independents over the Green Party, stating that it would be “more stable”.

Speaking on RTÉ’s Drivetime, the minister said Independent TDs would be “very, very reliable”, recalling how many said the Independent Alliance members would pull the last government down in the early days, but ultimately stuck it out in government with Fine Gael.

“I would say go for the Independents because they will actually be more stable in government,” he said. 

Independent TDs such as Denis Naughten and Verona Murphy have said they stand ready to enter into government formation talks.

Last week, Independent TDs such as Michael Fitzmaurice, Michael McNamara and Marian Harkin were told they would get sight of the final deal but would not be involved in formal negotiations.

Deadline

Ross’ comments come as the negotiating teams in the government formation talks are working towards getting a programme for government agreed by Friday or Saturday, it is understood.

The deadlines for getting a deal done have been successfully pushed back in recent days.

The first deadline missed was last weekend. Another date was set for yesterday, but was missed. Finally, a deadline of this weekend has been marked – and it is understood to be the final deadline.

Talks have intensified today, but there are a number of major issues still unresolved. 

The major focus again today is agriculture and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. 

Last night, deputy leaders from the three parties rubber stamped several texts which will be signed-off on today.

The sticking point in the talks continues to be the issue that caused controversy at the beginning of the talks – the Green Party’s demand for a 7% annual reduction in Ireland’s greenhouse gas emissions.

During the talks, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have maintained that rural Ireland should not be adversely impacted by the target. In the Dáil this afternoon, Green party leader Eamon Ryan denied claims that his party in government would be bad for the rural economy.

What is being dubbed as interesting timing – due to the Greens and Fine Gael sitting down to discuss how to best achieve the 7% target – Fine Gael issued a press release today on behalf of TD Emer Higgins claiming carbon emissions are already going to fall by 7% this year because of people working from home. 

The statement was based on what Minister Richard Bruton said in the Dáil today, when he cited studies from Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, which said Ireland is set to hit a 6% or 7% reduction due to the pandemic.

“But we do not know how the year will end up. Remote working definitely has had an impact but we will not know that until later in the year. Obviously I do not think anyone would want the way in which we achieve our emissions is by having one million people effectively furloughed, on furlough or whatever the word is, either on Covid payments or with their employers very much limping along, but we can learn,” said Bruton.

While he said he was not going to comment on the discussions around carbon pricing currently underway, Bruton added: 

“The reality is that we will probably end up in a position like Denmark, which has committed to high ambition but cannot specify all of the pathway. That is the reality we will have to follow.”

Green Party demands

However, the Green Party want annual commitments in the programme for government to make this a yearly occurrence.

Fianna Fáil TD Thomas Byrne told Newstalk Breakfast today that an average 7% reduction in emissions has been agreed between the two large parties.

“So this isn’t a case of the Greens demanding something and not getting it – it’s already been agreed to.

“I think what’s happening at the moment is we’re just trying to work out exactly the mechanics of doing that,” he said.

Housing has been another consistent issue throughout the talks, between all parties.

Fine Gael is anxious to ensure the Land Development Agency to be at the heart of housing delivery, but other sides are calling the agency the Irish Water of the housing crisis.

Fianna Fáil are keen on getting a big commitment on affordable housing, while the Greens want rent certainty and a serious shake-up of the sector.

Rewetting the bogs, cycling versus road commitments, transport, finance and how to pay down the debt and when, are also a bones of contention in the talks.

If and when a programme for government is agreed, the next hurdle is getting each of the party’s membership to sign-off on the deal. This weekend’s deadline is important for a reason – at least ten to 12 days will be needed so the parties can consult with their members before votes are taken. 

There has been talk that this deal between Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party might never be done.

Sinn Féin’s Eoin Ó Broin said today that he is not so sure there is going to be a Fianna Fáil-Fine Gael-Green government at this stage.

The Offences Against the State Act is due to run out at the end of this month, with TDs stating the renewal of the law has been mentioned repeatedly in the setting of deadlines for talks. If the law elapses, the Special Criminal Court cannot function.

As a side bar, it is understood the Greens have raised the prospect of reviewing the law, citing that Amnesty International has raised concerns about about the human rights aspect of the legislation. Sinn Féin have also taken issue with the law in the past. Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are understood to have stated that reviewing the Act is not palatable to either party. 

As time ticks on, the three party leaders – Leo Varadkar, Micheál Martin and Eamon Ryan – are expected to play pivotal roles in sorting out some of the final problems. With this weekend set down as the final deadline, there is no time to waste.

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56 Comments
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    Mute Ulick Stafford
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:41 PM

    Most sensible thing Shane Ross has said. The sooner they stop trying to include Green Party in a government the better. 7,5% per annum carbon reduction is lunacy. It is high time we stopped trying to go along with the costly climate change scam.

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    Mute David Clements
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:55 PM

    @Ulick Stafford: It’s just a flu

    45
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    Mute Rochelle
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:04 PM

    @Ulick Stafford: It was over 30 degrees in Siberia this week with permafrost melting and you really believe it’s a scam?

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    Mute Crispy Brown
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:15 PM

    @Rochelle: All I heard after 6 weeks of lockdown was that the planet has been saved and all holes on the ozone had been repaired. Was that more codswallop?

    55
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    Mute David Clements
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:18 PM

    @Crispy Brown: were you only listening to morons?

    25
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    Mute Dáinéil Ó hÍobhair
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:21 PM

    @Ulick Stafford: 7.5% is nothing. It needs to be far higher than that. We’ve agreed to the Paris Accord to reduce our carbon dioxide emissions by 20% by 2030. We’re the worst performing country in the EU for meeting the targets. Climate change is only a scam to tinfoil hat loonies who continually cherrypick data from flawed studies to suit their agenda.

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    Mute King B
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:22 PM

    @Crispy Brown: na you didn’t hear that, you think you might but if you delved a bit deeper you’d have got the full stories.

    11
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    Mute Ulick Stafford
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:51 PM

    @Rochelle: that is just weather in one part of world. Average temperature about 0.5c above 1979 level – not much, and not worrying.
    And if it is warmer it is probably just cycles. The likely temperature rise from a doubling of CO2 is just 1C.
    Correlation does not imply causation.
    The environmental damage from windmills, solar farms, biofuels and electric cars are much much worse than burning fossil fuels. Watch planet of Humans by Michael Moore if you can.

    25
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    Mute Ulick Stafford
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:58 PM

    @Dáinéil Ó hÍobhair: I have a PhD in chemical engineering. I have studied issue for years. Anyone with a brain and no prior agenda who studies underlying science realizes it is greatly exaggerated and cures are worse than disease.
    Please define tinfoil hat loonie? And please explain where you get your understanding of this? I recommend wattsupwiththat.com for anyone who wants to educate themselves on this scam.

    29
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    Mute Gran T
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    Jun 10th 2020, 9:18 PM

    @Ulick Stafford: What makes it hard for me to believe it’s a ‘scam’ is who is orchestrating it? How would you get so many scientists to promote it and then so many countries to act on it? No way all the world’s governments who are acting on climate change could collaborate on something like this. Or are they all just falling for the scam too? Which is back to my original question, who is pulling the scam?

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    Mute Earth Traveller
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    Jun 10th 2020, 9:50 PM

    @Dáinéil Ó hÍobhair: “7.5% is nothing. It needs to be far higher than that.” I am confused. If the target is -20% by 2030 how would -7.5% per annum not just meet, but also well exceed, the target?

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:49 PM

    I have ever agreed with anything that Shane Ross ever said, that is until now, and these are the truest words he ever spoke. Of course FF& FG would be better with the Sensible Independents, and there are at least a dozen of them, that can be relied upon. Of course the Greens will try to punch above their weight and try to have their way in All their demands. I say, ditch them now , talk to the decent Country Independents who have the interest of the Rural Community at heart .

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    Mute David Clements
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:57 PM

    @Eugene Comaskey: without green policies the rural economy is gone. Unless of course you mean continue keeping it on life support indefinitely?

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    Mute Hector Son
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:59 PM

    @Eugene Comaskey: the Healey-Raes and the Lowrey’s of this world? No thanks

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Jun 10th 2020, 9:26 PM

    @David Clements: Green Policies is what WILL Ruin our Economy, Looney Tunes, that what they are, Ryan appears to be a complete Clown , from watching and listening to him in the Dail He appears that way anyway, lift not going all the way up .

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    Mute Eugene Comaskey
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    Jun 10th 2020, 9:30 PM

    @Hector Son: Lowry can be depended upon to do the right thing for Rural Ireland, so can Healy- Rea’s, they may sometimes give the impression that they are fools, but they are far from that. Michael Fithmaurice, Denis Naughton , Peter Fitzpatrick, – and there are more like them, can be relied on.

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    Mute ihcalaM
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    Jun 10th 2020, 10:56 PM

    @Eugene Comaskey: That has to be the biggest pile of nonsense I’ve read this week. The sooner support for the corrupt rural TDs you mention dies off, the better.

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    Mute Donal Desmond
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:31 PM

    Shane Ross lost his seat as an acting minister his comment will not go down well with the part time Taoiseacht Michael Martin who is relying on the Greens for that position. To remind the Greens the last time they were in power with F.F. the country was brought to it’s knees. Now a combination of F.F.G/ Greens is a recipe for disaster.

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    Mute Pat Coyne
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:36 PM

    The Green Party refuse to allow the use of the word women and don’t believe those with Christian views should receive a promotion; are other reasons they should not be in government.

    64
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    Mute Dan
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:37 PM

    @Pat Coyne: Oh please tell us more

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    Mute Peter Hughes
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    Jun 10th 2020, 9:35 PM

    @Pat Coyne: Whatever you are smoking I wan@ some yeah!

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:40 PM

    But of course they are. That’s as idiotic a statement as Alan Kelly’s last week “oh if Labour were in the talks we’d already have agree”

    OF COURSE they’d have agreed already. OF COURSE independents would be more stable.

    They don’t stand for anything. Give them constituency goodies and they’ll sign up to anything.

    The Greens on the other hand have an actual policy platform to deliver. And FFFG don’t agree with that platform. So course they’re not going to agree.

    This is self evident. If it was easy it would be business as usual. But it’s not. So it isn’t.

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    Mute Logan Shepherd
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:44 PM

    @Shazam37: And from the perspective of the Greens standing by their promises, it looks good.

    32
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    Mute Hector Son
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    Jun 10th 2020, 6:48 PM

    @Shazam37: agreed, the principled Greens or the unprincipled independents?
    Most people dont disagree with the thrust of what the Greens want, just how they’re going to pay for it.
    Ironically lots of the same people dont have any problem with sf spending plans or how they’re going to pay for them.

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    Mute Barrsball Rebel
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:51 PM

    @Shazam37: oh there you are.. Covidiot.. spluttering your usual nonsense.. Who left you out tonight…I told you before bud, your a Cabaret Act….BTW… When the Greens parliamentary party vote on going into govt it will be rejected..pfftttttttt

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    Mute Gary Kearney
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:23 PM

    @Shazam37: Are you having a laugh, they have policies and most of them are from cloud cuckoo land.

    12
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    Mute James Quirke
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    Jun 10th 2020, 10:59 PM

    @Shazam37: last time green were in grovement they changed the car tax and everyone buying a new car went for diesel, as it was meant to be better for the environment so tax was lower at the time.
    Now we know the small petrol car we’re better and the old tax system was better for the environment.
    If the green get a good run at it, it’s not known what damage they could do to the environment

    14
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    Mute Shazam37
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    Jun 10th 2020, 11:05 PM

    @James Quirke: If FG stays in power we know they’ll do nothing and EXACTLY what that will do to the environment

    Give me the greens any day thanks

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    Mute Colm O'Sullivan
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:56 PM

    Any party that is fundamentalist in its approach, be they from the left or the right, is bad news. The Greens want to decimate rural Ireland & tax the $hite out of urban dwellers too.

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Jun 10th 2020, 11:07 PM

    @Colm O’Sullivan: rubbish. The greens want to protect the environment. Simple.

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    Mute John Mc Donagh
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    Jun 11th 2020, 1:02 PM

    @Shazam37: —–And everybody should live beside a bus-stop!

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    Mute Gary Kearney
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:20 PM

    The Green Party can agree with each other so in government you would have individuals going on solo runs all over the place. So that would never be a stable government.
    They wanted to build a playground on the Croppy Acre in Dublin, 500 metres away is the largest walled park in Europe. Dancing on the graves of Fenians of 1798.

    34
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    Mute John Mc Donagh
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    Jun 11th 2020, 1:05 PM

    @Gary Kearney: —Jaysus, were the Fenians active in 1798? I need to learn my history again!

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    Mute Rochelle
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:02 PM

    Why is stability always spun as if it’s a positive for the general public? It’s essentially less accountability for a serving government as they can make unpopular decisions without consequence.

    Having a party like the Greens with ideological differences to FF & FG holding the balance of power is very much in the interest of the country and helps keep the larger parties in check. Replacing them with gene pool independents is handing them free reign for 5 years and no incentive to tackle problem areas like housing.

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    Mute Eugene Conroy
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    Jun 10th 2020, 8:33 PM

    @Rochelle: that my friend is why they have excluded the most popular party

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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:45 PM

    Surely the only matter worth considering is that Micheal Martin becomes Taoiseach – it’s his birthright after all.

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    Mute Derek Poutch
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    Jun 10th 2020, 10:45 PM

    @Shakka1244: I don’t accept that.

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    Mute Rob Hunt
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    Jun 10th 2020, 7:43 PM

    Because the Greens have a cohesive policy that their TDs were elected on the basis of (regardless of how you feel about it), and the Indos just need their own little parish pump policies worked on to be happy?

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    Mute Declan Sweeney
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    Jun 10th 2020, 10:17 PM

    They should dump the Greenss, they are playing party politics with the future of our country, both Ryn and Martin both want to keep the members happy because one way or the other could swing the leadership batle towards the other.

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    Mute Derek Poutch
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    Jun 10th 2020, 10:47 PM

    @Declan Sweeney: I don’t accept that either.

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    Mute Aindriú Purfield
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    Jun 11th 2020, 12:24 AM

    Good. SF/Green/Left coalition in 2024/5 then.

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    Mute Thomas Harrington
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    Jun 10th 2020, 11:18 PM

    FG should call another election and walk away with 55 plus seats. FF would be decimated. Of course SF would have 40 or so sears , so we’d all be back to square one again

    5
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    Mute Adam Conroy
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    Jun 11th 2020, 1:24 PM

    I think FG and FF are creating problems for themselves in a few years by going into government together. Unless they can please most people in the country in four years they’re handing SF a go in power. But I’d rather they go with independents over Greens. If the Greens get in they’ll tax all our home grown cabbage.

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    Mute Martin O'Reilly
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    Jun 11th 2020, 8:02 AM

    The Greens want to tax all insundry. Then you have the opportunistic Machiavellian so called Independent’s.

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    Mute Dermot O'Reilly
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    Jun 12th 2020, 5:44 AM

    Dump the Greens
    No Christian values
    They want to impose more taxes Green a Taxes
    Crazy policies

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