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LAST UPDATE | 24 Jan 2019
THE GOVERNMENT HAS lost a vote in the Dáil today on a Bill that seeks to ban trade on goods from illegally occupied areas.
In a further blow, some members of the Independent Alliance in government abstained from the vote.
The government lost the vote 75 votes to 45 votes, with three abstentions.
The Bill, does not mention Israel or Palestine specifically, but aims to prohibit Ireland from trading in goods and services from illegally occupied territories by prohibiting “the import and sales of goods, services and natural resources originating in illegal settlements in occupied territories”.
Junior Minister John Halligan said he has long campaigned for Palestinian rights, telling theJournal.ie earlier that he intended to abstain from the vote today.
Transport Minister Shane Ross and Junior Minister for Disabilities Finian McGrath also abstained.
The ministers sought a free vote on the issue from Tánaiste Simon Coveney, but following numerous talks on the issue over the summer, the members decided to abstain.
Impact of government members voting yes
Halligan said Coveney advised the IA members that their concerns about the impact of members of the Irish government voting in favour of this Bill, particularly from the US, he said.
Halligan told TheJournal.ie that he is comfortable with his abstention from the vote, stating that “the important thing is, the Bill will pass”.
The only party opposed to the Bill, which was first introduced in the Seanad by Senator Frances Black, is Fine Gael. Had the numbers been tighter, Halligan said it would have been another story, indicating that he may have voted in favour of the Bill.
He also confirmed that the issue of the Israeli embassy closing because some members of government might vote in favour of the Bill was raised.
Yesterday, Fianna Fáil’s Niall Collins said he “hoped it wouldn’t come to that”, stating that it was “an overreaction”.
The Bill, which was produced in the Seanad by Senator Frances Black, “is an important tool in demonstrating that Ireland is opposed to illegal occupations wherever they occur” said Fianna Fáil’s Niall Collins yesterday.
Tánaiste Simon Coveney told TheJournal.ie that the advice government has received from the Attorney General is the legislation is “not legally sound”.
EU fines
Speaking in the Dáil yesterday, he said the Bill asks the government to do something that it does not have the power to do, adding that if brought into effect, it faces massive EU fines for differentiating our trade rules.
A number of other legal minds, including the former Attorney General Michael McDowell have said the Bill does not contravene European trade law.
Ross is understood to have sought further detail on the advice from the Attorney General.
Fianna Fáil’s Jim O’Callaghan appealed to the government not to put a ‘money message’ on the Bill which would stall the legislation and prevent it from progressing to the next Stage and being heard in committee.
Blocking the Bill
A money message effectively means that the government states that to pass such legislation would cost money to the Exchequer. Opposition Bills are generally not permitted to do so.
Fianna Fáil’s Daragh O’Brien told the Tánaiste yesterday that this Bill was delayed last year in order to allow Coveney to raise the issues at European level. Referencing a letter from Coveney, O’Brien said this was not done.
He said now was the time to act on the issue, and send a moral message internationally, that might encourage other nations to follow suit.
Coveney said it was a “certainty” that a money message would be placed on the Bill – effectively blocking the legislation.
He said the legislation has “legal, political and practical” effects.
Coveney added that Ireland has a powerful voice at EU and UN level to advocate for the Palestinian people, stating that is where Ireland can help, and that is his priority.
Halligan told TheJournal.ie that Independent Alliance members in government would continue to advocate and put pressure on their Fine Gael colleagues to progress the Bill.
People Before Profit Paul Murphy said if the words of Halligan and other members of the IA mean anything over the last number of years they would be “tripping over themselves to vote yes” today.
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Ireland finally showing some backbone to decades of illegal land-grabbing carried out by Israel.
@Colm O’Brien: It’s great news, hopefully more will follow suit against the rogue State that is Israel.
@Orla Smith: Great news about time and its also amazing to me that I agree completely with Orla for once
@Colm O’Brien: It’s like which came first, the hen or the egg?
@TamuMassif2019: The egg came first.
@The Risen: the chicken came first as the egg shell is made using a protein only found in chickens
@Philip Riordan: The chicken came first, as all poultry emerged from a reptillian evolutionary spur i.e. their ancestors hatched over and over and evolved slowly until eventually the first chickens hatched from eggs also.
I’ll take this opportunity once again to remind everyone that Halligan was elected on the promise of getting 24-hour cardiac care for the South East but immediately threw away the significant leverage he had with the government in exchange for a ministerial job and pension.
Constituents of his are still dying because of this.
@Kem Trayle: they elected him…you reap what you sow.
@Kem Trayle:
A Ministerial pension trumps all election promises. It’s Irish politics.. Them’s the rules.
@Kem Trayle: just another Liar for sale, he did well, but do not forget this , run him from your door next election, he can have his pension, but I wouldn’t sell him a pint of milk down there ,unless ye like being used
@Kem Trayle: Electing someone just on one issue is stupid especially an idiot like him
@Kem Trayle: Yes one man makes or breaks government policy, your dead right its all his fault of course, the rubbish that is stuck up here is mind blowing it really is.
@Milk The Drones: not only Irish. Look around.
The Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018 does not mention Israel and the Palestinian territories but will make it an offence “for a person to import or attempt to import settlement goods”.
@Padraic O Sullivan: Northern Ireland.. Gibraltar..Cueta..Mellila…Crimea…etc etc
@Padraic O Sullivan: Therefore it is necessary to remove the word “settlement” and thereby include all parts of the world occupied by other nations otherwise its only drafted against the Israelis. I expect TDs to amend this Bill
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: it’s the Occupied Territories Bill and it includes all territories recognised as illegally occupied by the UN (both current and future). The illegal Israeli settlements that your referring to is just one example.
Have you gotten yourself confused by the context of the word ‘settlement’? It’s not used exclusively to refer to Israel.
@Karen Wellington: give another example
@SF Ankle Tapper: Northern Cyprus.
@SF Ankle Tapper: Western Sahara
“Halligan said Coveney advised the IA members that their concerns about the impact of members of the Irish government voting in favour of this Bill, particularly from the US, he said. ”
Why are we allowing out government to be intimidated by a foreign state? Nobody should be allowed to interfere with our democratically elected parliament.
@Patrick FitzGerald: no one is interfering…just realities being pointed out.
@Patrick FitzGerald: We avoid saying no to the US, because of “The Implication”
Absolutely delighted this bill is going to pass .
@GorillaGrower: it didnt………..
@deise: It did, 75-44.
@deise: sadly it did. It was an opposition bill n government lost. But it can be stopped by sticking a “money message”on it.
They make me sick why do these clowns go into politics the people did not vote you into the to abstain from voting . This is what happens when you take the 30 pieces of silver your a sad bunch.
@Donal Carey: political dynasties with vested foreign investments, using their position as elected representatives to protect their private financial interests, abroad.
An absolutely perfect example of FFG.
@Artugal: Totally agree FF fight every day in the Dail against what FG are doing a d when there is a no confidence vote they obtain or back FG same goes for these Independents
This bill drafted by a Palestinian lobby group for Senator Frances Black is solely against Israel, It fails to include any other occupied areas (incl Northern Ireland if we believe the rhetoric) it does nothing to support Arabs in a Palestinian society where violence is encouraged.You should find another way
https://twitter.com/palwatch/status/1088332204999131137
https://twitter.com/KilkennyOf/status/1075771640439439360
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: the UN does not recognise Northern Ireland as an occupied territory. The bill targets any and all occupied territories recognised by the UN as illegal, Israel happens to a very obvious example of this, maybe if they didn’t flout international law they wouldn’t have to throw tantrums over how our government operates.
@Paul Whitehead: so you support the illegal occupation of Palestinian land and the establishment of the apartheid state of Israel.
@Paul Whitehead: well I was expecting the old anti semiticism card to be played much earlier in the comments section. You didn’t disappoint after all.
Again confusing justice for racism. Illegal under the UN of which we are a part. Ireland setting the international standard. Superb.
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: throwing your Nazionist you out of the pram with whataboutery , hang up your jack boots
@Paul Whitehead: anti semetic, and Jews and there are many whose oppose the Nazionist state are anti semetic too??
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dmXLNYKQhBdZh9Nt8
Coveney is such a little weasel. Lads of 1916 are turning in their graves with every devision FG being based on money. Absolute sellouts.
This is where people power comes in regardless of the vote. No one is being forced to buy Israeli goods; just leave them on the shelf if you don’t want them.
@Karen Luby: i love Jaffa oranges
@Karen Luby: i love Jaffa oranges
@Karen Luby: Some sense here why not have a section with Israeli goods (like the Gluten free areas) and lets see people vote with their own conscience and decide to buy or not to buy these goods.
I’d prefer to see Irish people in homes (not houses) trolleys not necessary in hospitals, an ambulance when I want one, a garda when necessary, a college place & accomodation for our youth, mental health looked after and Suicide beaten & the Banks held responsible for their actions
What are you doing IA, FF FG SF PB4P?
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: superb whataboutery. Why is it one or the other? Ultra one dimensional comment tbh. How about you stay on topic.
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: they’re doing far more then you are! Whilst your friends in isreal make an entire population homeless and destitute.
@Kilkenny Friends of Israel: I didn’t say I have a problem with Israeli goods per se, I am just pointing out people can choose for themselves. Nestle products aren’t banned but I try and avoid them due to their baby milk formula scandal. Same way I try avoid plastic, products containing palm oil etc…
Politicians There nothing in it for me’ by voting in favour of this bill , so by abstaining they’ll be something down the line. Politics is all about, ‘what’s in it for me. – to hell with ye’ and true justice doesn’t get a look in. Actions speak louder than words.
Abstaining should not be allowed. This is part of their job, which we pay them to do.
So they’ll stop using their mobile phones too?
@John Mulligan: the majority of mobile phones don’t use Israeli tech.
@John Mulligan: childish Nazionism, your pram short of s dummy ?
@John Mulligan: Are they made in what are illegal settlements under international law??
@John Mulligan: Are mobile phones made in the occupied territories? Well, who’d a thunk it?
Larry, Curly and Moe there in the photo.
Alan shatter will be livid, best news this year.
Such nonsense from halligan,he supports it but will not vote for it,this man and his colleagues should not be in government,its disgraceful.
And in other news, The Journal continue to abstain from proofreading…
Just don’t buy stuff from Israel – simples…
.
@David Jones: Ireland imports only a few million worth of goods from Israel but exports close to 1 billion euro worth of goods to Israel. As we look for new markets post Brexit, do we really want to kick off a trade war with the only democratic country in the region ?
@David Jones: like the chip that operates your smart phone? Assume you’ll be binning your phone post haste.
@Stephen Kearon: It’s as democratic as South Africa during the apartheid era. But a FF supporter probably thought apartheid was a good thing.
@Stephen Kearon: democratic country. Lol. Go read something. There are plenty other democratic countries in the Middle East. Look up the definition of democracy. Your ignorance is amusing.
@Dermot Foley: an apartheid terror state is democracy ??
@Stephen Kearon: I’m hoping Israel will BDS Ireland and thousands of Irish and Palestinian jobs are lost. Ireland is Banjaxed and nothing short of a Revolution will save us from the Shinners and terrorist supporters.
Israel would be doing the Irish a favour and the terrorist Jihadi supporters would get their wish.
@David Jones: 500,000 Palestinians rely on the Israeli economy.
Why do you hate Palestinians so much?
@Stephen Kearon: CSO doesn’t give any export figure for Israel:
https://cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gei/goodsexportsandimportsnovember2018/
@Joe: Israel’s economy also relies on dropping bombs on Palestinian children every now and again.
@Dermot Foley: Yeh Israel is sooooo bad that’s why 1.6 million arabs live there rather than the paradise that is Palestine
@Simon Carroll: you spelt ‘prison’ wrong.
@Dermot Foley: name me the democratic states in the middle east…go on then!
@Stephen Kearon: Democratic..are you a comedian
@Dermot Foley: name me a list of middle east democratic countries…!!
The wording of the headline almost makes it seem that the bill didn’t pass.
@Eric Foley: that’s the journal Nazionism for you
Alan shatter will be livid, best news this year.
I’m going to abstain from getting car insurance as I am a safe driver….well done Halligan
I think this bill is a mistake. I know many Palestinians work in Israeli factories in the West Bank. I know also that many workers in Gaza were working on Israel prior to Hamas takeover. The West Bank was previously occupied by Jordan. Has it occurred to some that Jordan and Israel have diplomatic relations and flights between the countries. Perhaps Those that support this bill should explain themselves to Apple and other tech and pharmaceutical companies workers should they decide to relocate.
@Michael O’Byrne: the bill got full support from the Palestinians in the West Bank when Senator Black went over there. Do you consider the Israeli bulldozing of Palestinian villages to be replaced with Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank illegal or not?
@Cormac Ó Braonáin: Lol, Mary-Lou visited President-for-life Mahmoud Abbas, who is in year 15 of a 4-year term by the way, and other terrorists in Ramallah, but she didn’t visit Palestinian Human Rights Activist Bassem Eid, any of the 100,000 Palestinians who work in Israel or the other estimated 400,000 Palestinians who earn a living from the Israeli economy.
Sinn Fein and other Jihadi supporters have no problem cutting off the noses of 500,000 Palestinians who oppose BDS, to spite the faces of Jews. Stop spouting rubbish you know nothing about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9J1_G9SHsA&t=3s&ab_channel=MEMRITVVideos
@Joe: maybe you will answer my question. Do you consider the Israeli bulldozing of Palestinian villages to be replaced with Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank illegal? Don’t go into hiding now.
@Joe: good man. Didn’t realise you’ve been to Ramallah and the West Bank. The rhetoric that you’re spouting is the greatest load of tripe I’ve heard in my life. If you’ve been there you would realise that Palestinians are in full support of BDS across the West Bank irrespective of where they get their jobs. They’ve lived through worse than having no job. But you’d know that having been there of course.
@Cormac Ó Braonáin:
“West Bank”? You mean Judea and Samaria.
“Settlements”? Jews were ethnically cleansed from Judea and Samaria in 1948 where they lived for millennia, but when they returned home in
1967, but you call them “Settlers”?
I strongly support bulldozing homes of terrorists once convicted.
As for “bulldozing villages”? I strongly support demolishing illegal structures, especially the Bedouin School built from car tyres and junk as it was a danger to the children and was built without planning permission on land they didn’t legally own, especially when Israel gave them free land to build safe structures on.
Any Arab claiming they lost land in 1948 can become an Israeli citizen if they can produce Land Title Deeds and show their names on the Land Registry of the British Mandate or Ottoman Empire. No Arabs lost any land in 1948, none. 850,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries in 1948.
Try reading a history book. http://markhumphrys.com/palestine.invented.html
@Joe: Deluded fool
Government loses vote on Israeli goods trade ban Bill, as ministers abstain
Junior Minister John Halligan said he is comfortable with his abstention from the vote, stating that ‘the important thing is, the Bill will pass’. Cowards couldn’t take a proper stand, Scrupleless!
Ahhh the Independent Alliance, abstain on a vote but want to go over to North Korea to talk some sense into Kim Jong.
Disney couldn’t write a script like it.
Dumbo, the seven dwarfs, the king of thieves.
Still nothing as outrageous as the clowns of Leinster House.
Israel please BDS Ireland and thousands of Irish and Palestinian jobs will be lost. Ireland is Banjaxed and nothing short of a Revolution will save us.
In 2016 Ireland exported $2 billion worth of goods to Israel and Ireland imported $83 million from Israel. You don’t need to do business with a country who hates you and you would be doing the Irish a great service. It is likely that POTUS will also have to follow US Law and Ireland will turn into the Venezuelan dream.
The Brain Drain that Ireland has suffered over the years has reached Critical Velocity. It will be unfortunate that so many Palestinians lose their livelihood but I have little concern that the Irish who have been calling for an end to relations with Israel will get their wish, and lose their jobs. Be careful what you wish for.
@Joe: Joe, I for one hate nobody and I 100% approve of this Bill. It’s about human rights, respect and ending occupation, not hate. Give Palestinians the same rights as Israeli’s and stop treating them as an untermenschen in their own land. Martin Luther King day was last Monday, he will be a happy man today. His hopes, vision and dreams live on in this Bill 51 years after his death.
@Charles Williams: Your lack of knowledge of the topic is staggering, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to teach you History of Geography.
Dr Martin Luther King Jr was a Zionist. He is rolling in his grave at the disrespect you show for his legacy.
You know sometimes it is wiser to keep your mouth closed on a topic and have people believe you are a fool than to open it and eliminate all doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcCOT9JhEH0&ab_channel=WorldJewishCongress
@Joe: you trying to convince us you give a shite about Martin Luther King and Civil rights? You’ve gotten desperate.
A good day for democracy, Ireland and human rights. In the 1930s if more European countries had actively dissapproved of the treatment of Jews, homosexuals etc in Germany some of the later atrocities might never had happened.
@Charles Williams: Stop conflating Jews with the Holocaust. Jews have lived continuously in Israel for over 3,000 years. The Jews didn’t suddenly come to Israel in 1948 from Europe, Europe systematically eliminated most of its Jews. 850,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arab/Muslim countries and came to Israel in 1948 to join other Jews because no other country would accept them.
The Region which the British Mandate called “Palestine” was divided up and 77% given to Arabs to create the Palestinian State of Jordan. No Country named Palestine ever existed, the myth of the country was created by an Egyptian Terrorist named Yassir Arafat in 1964. It wasn’t until Arabs attacked Israel in 2 wars and lost, that Arabs called themselves “Palestinians”, and only as a means to exterminate Jews and the State of Israel. http://markhumphrys.com/palestine.invented.html
@Joe: Population of Israel 1948: 806,000. Population of Israel 2017: 8,700,000. However did they manage it?
@Joe: wasn’t the founder of Israel a man by the name of David Grün born and raised in Poland and changed his name to Ben-Gurion? Son of Avigdor Grün, leader of the Hovevei Zion movement, and a forefather of modern Zionism?
@Hugh Davison: For a start, 850,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries in 1948 and Israel was the only country that would accept Jews. Also, Arabs are 23% of Israelis. Jews have continued to be ethnically cleansed from other countries for years and the only safe place to be Jewish is the tiny State of Israel.
Now if you will kindly explain how 730,000 Arabs fled Israel in 1948 and now there are an estimated 15 Million?
@Cormac Ó Braonáin: If you want to know the name of who founded Israel you could either;
Read the Holy Qur’an and find that Allah is a Zionist and gave Israel to the Jews until the Day of Judgement, ie; no good Muslim believes in Palestine as it is not mentioned in the Qur’an, neither is Jerusalem mentioned,
Or
You could refer to ancient history going back about 4,000 years and name the kings of Judea and Samaria, and many other Jewish Kingdoms stretching from Egypt to Syria and beyond.
What is a lot more interesting historically is the fact that the mythical Country of Palestine was invented in 1964 by an Egyptian terrorist named Yassir Arafat, but Arabs didn’t begin calling themselves “Palestinians” until they attacked Israel in two wars and lost on the 4 June 1967. Previously Palestine was a Region under the British Mandate and 77% of the land was given to Arabs to create the Palestinian State of Jordan.
Abstain !
Useless trough seekers..
Treators
@Dominic Leleu: Trick or?
@David Maughan: treats … For them
How sad!
Dáil back terrorists against a democratically elected government.
They haven’t even got the guts to call it the West Bank Settlements Boycott Act’. Has anyone ever asked any of them to name even one other territory this is going to be applied to?
Amazing, have just read through a vast majority of the comments on here and they are all saying well done. Now let’s see what our leaders, the EU have to say about our activities, we are after all ruled by them. Let’s hope that none of this affects our trade with other countries you short sighted lot.
@Stephen O’Donoghue: so you’ve read through the vast majority of comments but it’s obvious you didn’t read the article. Your answers lie there.
Thundering disgrace by feeble minded politicians who have given Hamas, ISIS and Bin Laden fellow travellers a slap on the back and used democracy to undermine democracy. They should hang their heads in shame on the anniversary of our own democracy and its inception, the people in Gaza or the West Bank will not benefit from this but the symbolism undermines democracy in the only democratically elected country in the Middle East.
@: Yawn
Great Chance now to sack Ross, the other two will be collateral damage but that’s polatics , then when the dust settles let this bill through, and Rid of Ross , everyone is a winner ?
The three stooges ride again, into political oblivion
Reading between the lines, looks like this bill will still be blocked further down the line, Today’s vote might be step in right direction, but doubt if it will ever see daylight, Government will find a way to delay and block it indefinitely, Simply Politics;
@Pat O’Brien: Simply don’t vote for FFG. Not that I think SF will probably do much better but FF/FG need to learn they don’t have some divine right to rule, it’s pure conceit at this stage they blithely ignore the populous and just do as they please secure in the knowledge they’ll be re-elected again and again, if we start hitting them where it hurts- their cushy pensions, huge salaries with tax breaks, expense accounts, fancy dinners, dail bar and living like royalty on the taxpayer dime- they might actually sit up and take notice rather than spouting empty promises.
Halligan trying to have his cake and eat it there “I would probably have voted yes” my eye. Now on to phase 2, FG and FF will use the EU as an excuse not to enact this bill, amazing isn’t it when we’re told to clean up and overhaul our massively corrupt legal system by the EU it’s quietly ignored but when we need a new tax or a policy that the government don’t agree with is voted on “The EU cannot be ignored”
Senseability has prevailed T, G.
Very quiet on RTÉ about this storyline
The govt must reverse its plans to block the bill using the “money message” loophole. Time for protests.
The Dail should amend standing orders to abolish this nonsensical “money measure” rule so that the bill can proceed.
@Pragmatist2018: Hmm on closer inspection the problem seems to be “Article 17.2 of the Constitution provides that the Dáil shall not appropriate public money for any purpose unless the Government has first recommended that purpose to the Dáil by a Money Message signed by the Taoiseach. Similarly under Dáil Standing Orders amendments to Bills appropriating public money or imposing taxation are confined to a member of the Government.”. It seems this minority govt is increasingly resorting to the “money message” power to block Opposition bills. https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/government-relying-on-little-known-rule-to-block-bills-1.3133081
@Pragmatist2018: The Opposition should take a leaf from John Bercow’s book in the UK. They should ask the Ceann Comhairle to rule on whether in fact the “money measure” can be invoked in this case. That might help get the bill passed.
Whats the craic with all these blocking bills? Why is this permitted once they’ve been voted through?
Stick a “money message” on it and kill it now.
@Paul Whitehead: Haha, you see, that has been the Zionist way for decades. You prove you understand that by your statement. Manipulation through wealth, throwing money at opposition to their crimes. All that’s happening here is that none of that will work this time. Regardless of how much you want it.
have your say