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Health minister comes under cross-party pressure to reveal St Vincent's abortion figures

Stephen Donnelly told an Oireachtas committee he could not say how many terminations had been carried out at St Vincent’s Hospital.

HEALTH MINISTER STEPHEN Donnelly has come under pressure to reveal how many abortions have been carried out at St Vincent’s Hospital in Dublin.

It comes amid fresh concerns over the provision of services at the new National Maternity Hospital.

The planned relocation of the hospital from Holles Street to a site at Elm Park, alongside St Vincent’s Hospital, has been mired in controversy over governance, ownership and the impact of a potential Catholic ethos on services.

The new hospital is expected to cost the State up to €800 million but the St Vincent’s Healthcare Group (SVHG) has insisted it must retain ownership of the site – offering a 99-year lease with a 50-year extension – but the current Government has said it wants to own the land outright.

Donnelly told the Oireachtas health committee: “A lot of progress has been made and I believe we’re close to finding an agreement.

“With regards to site ownership, for me it is mainly symbolic. The governance issues can be dealt with largely through the legal agreements, the reserve powers, the public interest directors and so forth.

I don’t believe that who owns the site has an impact on the clinical and operational independence of the hospital.

The Government has repeatedly insisted that a full range of services, including terminations, sterilisations and gender reassignment surgeries would be available at the facility.

Donnelly told the committee that abortion services were “not something that’s precluded” at St Vincent’s, but could not reveal how many had been carried out at the Catholic-run hospital.

Social Democrats co-leader Róisín Shortall replied: “I find that hard to accept, I have to say.

“I think it goes way beyond being symbolic, because of the fact that there is no example anywhere in the world, that I’m aware of, where there is a hospital operation under the auspices of a Catholic organisation, and which performs the full range of women’s healthcare services.”

Donnelly said the Government “categorically” was not setting up the National Maternity Hospital under the auspices of a Catholic organisation.

“I double-checked, the charters of the hospital don’t contain any reference to religious ethos” he said.

Shortall replied that the “entire St Vincent’s operation” remained fully owned by the religious Sisters of Charity.

The Sisters own the Elm Park site, which is to be transferred to the charity St Vincent’s Holdings.

Shortall said that group “has the same ethical code as the religious Sisters of Charity”, which are based on the views of its founder Sister Mary Aikenhead.

Asked again how many abortions had been carried out at St Vincent’s, Minister Donnelly replied: “What I get is a report on the total numbers, I don’t get any information as to where they are performed.”

Fianna Fáil TD John Lahart, Fine Gael Senator Martin Conway, Green party TD Nessa Hourigan and People Before Profit’s Bríd Smyth all called on the minister to reveal the figures.

Hourigan said his comments had not given assurance that services such as gender affirming surgeries or services related to reproductive rights had been provided at the hospital.

She added: “There’s a piece of work to be done about rebuilding trust between the State and the women of Ireland, and for that trust to be rebuilt, we need to see those numbers.”

Minster Donnelly said he would engage with the Department of Health and St Vincent’s “to get as much detail as possible for the committee”.

Smyth cited a survey by the National Women’s Council on the delivery of abortion services following the referendum to repeal the Eighth Amendment.

She said: “One of the things they were able to show quite clearly is that around half of the maternity hospitals in the country do not deliver abortion services at all, since the legislation was passed.

“So if they can find that piece of information, it seems extraordinary that you cannot establish whether or not terminations, as just one service of reproduction that women are legally entitled to, whether or not they can be performed in St Vincent’s.”

Senator Conway said: “You need to get that information and they need to provide it to you. And if they don’t provide it to you, then we have a problem.

“It’s one thing saying that services are available but its another thing to state has it actually been provided and has it happened.”

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    Mute Patrico Floodaldinio
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    Jul 14th 2021, 2:38 PM

    Wasn’t the original estimate cost of the National Children’s Hospital €800m too?

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    Mute Sean
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    Jul 14th 2021, 3:01 PM

    @Patrico Floodaldinio: yes it was, Donnelly is a shocker of a minister

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    Mute ÉirePalestine
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    Jul 14th 2021, 4:57 PM

    @Sean: As was Harris before him.

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    Mute Roy Dowling
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    Jul 14th 2021, 5:05 PM

    @ÉirePalestine: All ministers for health will fail, it’s not the governments fault the health services is in a state it’s the HSE and the unions fault. Ireland has one for the best funded health system in Europe. The money is going to the wrong places because of the HSE management and the unions won’t let the management be broken up because there getting there payday.

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    Mute Paul Harvey
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    Jul 14th 2021, 6:03 PM

    @Patrico Floodaldinio: yeah and it was to be paid for with the money they sold the lotto for.

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    Mute Marg FitzGerald
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    Jul 14th 2021, 9:05 PM

    @Sean: Maybe but the Children’s Hospital is Harris’ baby.

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    Mute Elaine Phelan
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    Jul 14th 2021, 10:36 PM

    @Marg FitzGerald: the children’s hospital pre-dates Harris. He inherited the sh*tshow. It stated with Mary Harney, then James Riley, then Simon Harris https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/timeline-of-national-children-s-hospital-development-1.3782736

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    Mute Elaine Phelan
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    Jul 14th 2021, 10:36 PM

    @Marg FitzGerald: : the children’s hospital pre-dates Harris. He inherited the sh*tshow. It started with Mary Harney, then James Riley, then Simon Harris https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/timeline-of-national-children-s-hospital-development-1.3782736

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    Mute John McGovern
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    Jul 15th 2021, 5:25 AM

    @Roy Dowling:…. because they’re getting their payday.

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    Mute Tony
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    Jul 14th 2021, 3:39 PM

    Who wants to know of these figures? They should not be bandied about insensitivly. Nobody knows the circumstances that led to their occurrence.

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    Mute larry bird
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    Jul 14th 2021, 4:09 PM

    @Tony: very true but people will use the figures for their own means and not give a toss about the reasons for some of them.

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    Mute Lesidees
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    Jul 14th 2021, 4:21 PM

    @Tony: I agree, especially if the number is relatively low, there may be issues of confidentiality. But it beggars belief that the Dept of Health does not know how many were carried out

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    Mute ÉirePalestine
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    Jul 14th 2021, 4:59 PM

    @Tony: The figures are needed to see whether or not the Sisters religious institution ethos is impacting on the delivery of health service availability in St. Vincent’s as it stands, which would show whether or not that ethos would have an impact on the new NMH under the charity.

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    Mute Dermot N Killian
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    Jul 16th 2021, 12:31 AM

    @Tony: there should be transparency as to what services they perform relative to their assigned mission. What other way can you ensure that there is no discrimination?
    PHI is always protected.

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    Mute Anita OGalligan
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    Jul 14th 2021, 5:21 PM

    Here we go again. Donnelly and FF ready to do a sweetheart deal with St Vincent’s hospital and the Nuns. I would’nt trust what the nuns say. Go and find another site, NOW. Separation of the Church and state NOW. The 8th Admendment was fought for after a long battle. Is this country starting to roll back the progress that has been made to bring this country into a secular state.

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    Mute Verners Tess
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    Jul 14th 2021, 5:55 PM

    Funny how the same people mad to keep us locked down to save lives, have no issues with ending life before it starts.

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    Mute Elaine Phelan
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    Jul 14th 2021, 10:39 PM

    @Verners Tess: false equivalence, but I could equally argue that the people who are anti-choice for women are also the ones arguing against public health measures to prevent deaths

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    Mute Francis Mc Carthy
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    Jul 15th 2021, 6:46 AM

    @Verners Tess: Funny how you just admitted that you don’t know when life begins.
    Anyhow, How come you don’t want to save lives that have started ?

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    Mute Jules
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    Jul 14th 2021, 3:25 PM

    Does he not feel any shame or sense of responsibility?

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    Mute Roy Dowling
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    Jul 14th 2021, 5:11 PM

    @Jules: For what?. Plans to build to build the hospital there were signed off long before he became minster for health. He can’t just decide over night to change it.

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    Mute Jules
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    Jul 14th 2021, 5:45 PM

    @Roy Dowling: at the minimum the Minister for health should have oversight of medical procedures carried out within the State

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    Mute James Ward
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    Jul 14th 2021, 4:44 PM

    what does Donnelly mean by “mostly symbolic”. A 99 year lease, with input into what happens on it, is not symbolic. Singapore is finding out that 99 year leases are a big headache in housing. Here, it a farcical abdication of duty. Transfer the land and reclaim CPO costs back for rental of the private hospital. ridiculous shenanigans bartering with a private cult.

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    Mute Cat Reid
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    Jul 14th 2021, 4:38 PM

    Drum roll for the women being shamed when figures released….

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    Mute Seán Young
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    Jul 14th 2021, 5:00 PM

    @Cat Reid: Understand your concern but nobody will be named. We should move to where it’s not a matter of shame that a hospital performs abortions and sharing the numbers openly would be a move in that direction.

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    Mute Declan Carr
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    Jul 14th 2021, 3:05 PM

    I think they are ballpark figures, to start with.

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    Mute Maurizio
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    Jul 14th 2021, 10:21 PM

    On yer Bike Donnelly. & bring Mehole with you

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