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LAST SUNDAY EVENING, TheJournal.ie posted the personal experiences of seven high-profile gay and lesbian men and women.
They told stories of homophobia and hatred. But also tales of acceptance and love.
The interviews and writings certainly hit home for many of our readers and we were overwhelmed with the responses to our request for your stories.
Unfortunately, we have not been able to reproduce every submission, but have picked a selection to represent the various experiences people told us about.
Some have also been shortened.
We have arranged the extracts in separate posts.
Here, we look at the historic and current experiences of men and women across the island. There were some theme running through many of the stories, such as those who have not been subject to violent discrimination describing themselves as ‘lucky’ and the power of subtle homophobia.
The majority also stressed that their daily struggles with homophobia would be eased if the State recognised their individual choices in law by allowing for same-sex marriage.
“My main experience of homophobic assault was after I came out. Around four years ago, I was in Rick’s Burger at the end of George’s Street. I was with a friend and we were chatting to a guy with his girlfriend. Somehow the topic of being gay came up. At this point, I had no fear of people knowing I was gay. The guy was interested to know what it was all about. He seemed intriguted.
After around ten minutes, without any form of provocation, a guy – a friend of the other man – came over and punched me in the side of the head. He said, “Stop spreading your gay shit around.” I was stunned. Actually everyone in the café was stunned. I didn’t react. I was in shock. His friend apologised and said he didn’t mean this to happen. They left shortly afterwards.”
I never experienced it physically. Although when young and insecure, I was painfully aware of how name calling and physical abuse would be used on others who had behaviours based on stereotypes. When closeted, my family and friends spoke negatively of and made fun of homosexuals. This really hurt and delayed my coming out. When I did come out, I was informed by many that I couldn’t be gay because I didn’t act like ‘them’!
I grew up in a working class area and somehow a relationship developed with my best mate and later love of my life. He was a very talented footballer and very masculine, like myself. We both worked as apprentices in the building trade. He couldn’t handle the negative stereotypes and society judging him and looking down upon him for being gay. Eventually, he had enough of all that and hung himself. His 12-year-old brother found his body.
As a gay man in his 40s, this is the homophobia I have faced in my life. In no particular order:
Image: Maria and her partner Denise outside the Gaiety in 2012.
“The worst experience for me is that we have pretty much stopped going out in my home town as a couple. Why?
The evening always starts wonderfully. A few pints; friendly, chatty conversations with other locals and so on. But as the night continues (and people have more to drink), it will inevitably end in one or several of the following ways:
I am not making this stuff up, many a great night has ended with frustration, anger, sadness that it has to turn out this way, conversation nearly always eventually turns to our sexuality, our relationship and some people get very personal, very rude and ask very intimate questions that certainly I was never asked as a ‘straight’ person. They feel they can take liberties, maybe touch us up, cop a feel and be able to shrug it off.
Thankfully, of course, it is certainly not all bad and I do think Ireland is changing, as a parent, as a neighbour, as an employee I can honestly say I have never experienced any negative experiences to my face, I know some people talk behind our backs but sure you get that in small towns anyway.
My seven-year-old was playing with his Lego last week and the queen was getting married to the blue ninja. In attendance at this Lego wedding were the black and red ninja who were, according to my ‘lil man, ‘a gay couple and in love’. I love that kids can be so accepting, so why can’t the rest of us follow their example.
My experience could probably be described as more than just homophobia. From the years 2000 to 2002, aged 18 to 20, I attended ‘pray away the gay’ counselling in Dublin.
Looking back, I was quite distressed at the time and voluntarily sought it out. I was suffering from a lot of uncertainty, anxiety, guilt and shame around my sexual orientation. I felt damned. I was desperate not to be gay. This avenue offered me a way out.
I approached a local Catholic priest who suggested I go and see a therapist. I refused to go see someone who would just tell me to accept my sexuality. Eventually, through the priest, I got in touch with a Christian counsellor linked to an evangelical Protestant church in the locality.
There, very vulnerable and still at a young age, I was exposed to dangerous and twisted ideas that were imported straight from the ‘ex-gay’ or reparative therapy movement in the US – which is still support by much of the fundamentalist Christian right over there. It’s hard to believe this was in the Dublin area, in the early years of this century. During the Celtic Tiger.
Needless to say, I didn’t manage (thankfully!) to change my sexual orientation. Today, I’m a happy out and proud gay man, though still somewhat scarred by that experience, which was deeply rooted in homophobia and ignorance. I hope this stuff is not still going on in Ireland.
“My story, I feel, will be from a different vantage point to most others who will contribute to this article. I observe and absorb the mistreatment of the LGBT community from the relatively safe purgatory of the closet. I have not yet been able to rise from the ashes like the soaring phoenix. Instead, I am lying in wait for that opportune moment when I can finally shed the shackles of my own oppressive silence.
Although I am not ‘out’, that is not to say I have not endured my share of homophobia. From the beginning of puberty and the commencement of sexual awareness, I have known that I was, am and shall always be gay. However, many of my peers seemed to catch on to this fact simultaneously. They had decided my sexuality before I was fully able to come to terms with it myself. From that point on, I felt my sexual orientation was under a magnifying glass.
Most had decided I was gay, yet I had been deprived of my coming out moment and the sense of liberty that accompanies it. Instead, I was forced to suffer through witch-hunt style trials, whereby a portion of my ‘friends’ would restrain me while others, in a rather invasive manoeuvre, searched my mobile in order to see where I was hiding my gay porn. It was as if they craved a certain smugness that would come in validating their accusations…”
Anonymous
When looking for a house at the start of the academic year to share with my boyfriend, we were turned away from a viewing by the landlord. He said, “I’m sorry it’s a one bedroom, it’s only for couples to share.” My boyfriend and I awkwardly shifted in our places whilst trying to explain that we were a couple. The landlord said, “No, I’m sorry I won’t show it to you” and turned around to walk back to his car.
“I’m 34 now. I was the victim of homophobic bullying from about the age of 8 or 9 until 18.
School was hell on earth for me. Every single day for probably 10 years I was mocked, verbally abused and, in some cases, physically abused. I walked away in 1998, thankful that my six-year hell on earth was over.
At the age of 12 or so I considered suicide because I absolutely hated school.
My parents made me tell them what was going on. They approached the teacher (I suggested my religion teacher). He said the bullying would finish itself naturally. It didn’t. I covered it up myself for another five years.
In some ways, I have never recovered. I became introverted, had almost no friends and shut myself away. I still have very few close friends. I have never had a relationship.
I haven’t experienced any personal homophobia in about 13 years. Once a person I had gone to school with pulled me aside and told me gay people were not welcome in that pub.”
For myself, Rory’s standing at a pedestrian crossing echoed my own experiences. I have found myself at crossroads in my birthplace of Clontarf, having faggot screamed at me from a passing car on two occasions.
When I first came out at 18, I would regularly find myself on the upper deck of the 130 bus, earphones in, trying to dim out the verbal taunts and shouts of ‘faggot’ from groups of male peers sitting behind. It was a scary time for me and although Dublin has changed a lot, there are always the reminders that who I am is still not accepted by all people.
Last month, now aged 32, I was walking down the road not too far from that set of traffic lights where I heard ‘fucking faggot’ shouted a decade before. Then a carton of eggs were flung in my direction. While the term faggot wasn’t screamed I can only imagine that something about me, walking huddled in the rain, must have provoked the passengers in the passing car to have reacted to my presence with such vehemence.
I’ve been a victim of homophobia on several occasions. Thankfully, none of these have been violent or particularly aggressive, but they’ve been upsetting all the same.
I’ll give you a few examples of my own experiences:
Last summer, I was in Berlin with my girlfriend and we cuddled in public on the street. I looked over to see a woman who looked to be in her 50s looking at us. I noticed that instead of looking disapprovingly at us, she was smiling warmly, as though she found the public display of affection to be a positive and nice thing. It struck me that this was the first time in my life that this had happened to me in a non-gay-friendly setting, and also that this must be what it’s like to be straight.
One of my friends didn’t talk to me for well over a month when I came out to her. I didn’t make any attempt to reconcile the friendship. Then one day she approached me and apologised. She had thought it through and she was OK with it as long as I was happy. She no longer has a problem with me being who I am.
I think my friend is a great example of someone who actually put thought into their ‘homophobic’ actions and tried to view the incident from the opposite end of the spectrum. She learned and grew as a person. The experience was beneficial to her morally, in my opinion. We are best friends and she values me for who I am rather than who I love.
“The first time I kissed an ex-girlfriend of mine we were in the city centre. Within the five seconds or so that the kiss lasted, we had attracted about five men, cat calling and watching us. Shouting over obscenities. That behaviour mirrors every single circumstance of me kissing a girl in public. While what gay women experience as homophobia in this instance may not be violent, it can still be as dangerous.
The festishisation of lesbian and non-straight women is detrimentally dangerous and definitely a form of homophobia. I know so many men that oppose gay marriage yet lesbian porn is their porn of choice. For people to see gay women as objects in this way is a great dehumanising aspect which is always present in oppression.”
I grew up in Catholic Ireland where sex – not to mention homosexuality – was never discussed so I went to study for the priesthood for seven years in search of a safe haven where I could hide myself as I really had no clue whatsoever as to what was ‘wrong’ with me. It sounds so naive now but back then, gay people were figures of ridicule who we thought dressed as women and were mentally disturbed/damaged so the priesthood seemed a great option.
Shortly after ordination, I was based in the UK and met a man I fell totally in love with and realised I was gay. I had a secret relationship with him over four years, feeling terribly guilty. I was lucky enough that at the point of almost reaching total breakdown, I met a wonderful lady counsellor. Over time, she helped me realise who I am and to accept it and to also accept that I had nothing fundamentally ‘wrong’ with me to hate myself for.
I left the priesthood (a scandal in those days, especially to my now deceased parents) and trained as a social worker before returning to Dublin. I now have a good cadre of friends of all persuasions and a quality of life I enjoy. I do not hide my sexuality but also I most certainly do not shout it from the rooftops or discuss my past life as a priest. I try to live an ordinary life and, dare I say it, blend in with other people.
Yet, like Panti, I too know the loneliness and despair of being called faggot by clients, random yobs on the street and I certainly have never dared to show public affection to a partner. I have been spat on outside the George Pub. I think about my clothes every morning before work if they seem too bright or too gay. And I have cried in despair listening to reasonable people having reasonable debates on the media as to what us homosexuals should be allowed to do.
This is a very small selection of what I and many, many more gay people have to put up with in life. I can only imagine you will be inundated with stories far worse than mine but each are only the tip of the iceberg…
1. I once worked in a HR department for a multinational consulting company. I was not out to the company and once within the HR team meeting, one of the team members raised the issue of healthcare insurance. The company paid for staff members’ health insurance as well as their husbands and wives. It had been requested by a member staff to extend this to employees who were not married but lived with partners. The HR director said that it was fine and to extend the offering to people who asked but not to advertise it. Then the HR business partner raised the question as to whether it could be extended to gay partners and the team all laughed. It was said not to say a word or the gay army would be up in arms, quoting “we would have a pride march on our building”.
2. Being told my mother to “never babysit my nieces, nephew or friends’ kids as it would raise questions or accusations”. She genuinely asked this in a caring way for my own sake.
3. While on a city break , myself and my partner were walking from the local pub to our hotel and a car drove past us and the occupants shouted ” fuck off out of here you faggots”.
4. At 23 years of age and still coming to terms with my own sexuality, I worked in a government office and a senior case officer began to tell me about a social welfare case where a couple claimed to be gay. The senior officer was supposed to be going on a house visit and told me that he couldn’t stomach gay people and that he “better keep my arse to the wall” and “they make me sick”.
5. Being from a small country town, having graffiti sprayed on a wall in that town wall, naming me as gay.
6. Shortly after the people of my home town discovering I was gay, what was once a close friend asked me if I had ever interfered with her son and that she did not want me to see him anymore. There was no basis for the accusations bar a lack of education.
7. In college, being shouted at in a gym changing room not to come in until this other guy had changed.
8. In my current job, I sit beside someone who constantly refers to certain people she meets through our job as “queens”, “the campest guy ever”, “he is such a little bitch, he needs to get himself a man who had balls because he just has a vagina”.
9. Being asked by the same manager if she can come to a gay bar with me at the weekend because she has never been to a “seedy” gay club before. For some reason she thinks gay clubs are seedy.
1o. Daily conversations, especially with people who don’t realise or know that I am gay. Comments, slagging, jibes. Constantly being made to feel like shit and to deny who I am.
I have been attacked in Berlin, chased in Gran Canaria, followed home in a car in Dublin, got a bottle in the face outside a gay club in Galway and got four stitches. Only last week, outside Pantibar, a friend and I were abused and threatened.
I grew up on the north side of Dublin. I went to an all-boys CBS where homophobia was everywhere. I grew up praying each night I would wake up straight. Waking up each morning with the hope that my prayers were answered and then checking if I was still gay. My prayers were never answered (I am so happy today they weren’t)….
I grew up hiding most of my teenage years. I came out at 21 and my family accepted me 100 per cent. I, however, took many, many more years.
After I came out – and even today – I get told that I don’t look or act gay. At first I liked to hear this. I heard this from gay and straight people. I liked it because of how I grew up and the views I picked up about gay people from society. I was – and still am – a little homophobic. This only made it even more difficult to accept myself.
I am in a relationship with an amazing man (I would love the right to marry him). I like to hold his hands or kiss him when the moment feels right. Doing this on the streets of Dublin always raises eyebrows or people just stare and make comments or laugh…I don’t do this to get a reaction or make a statement. I’m a private person in general…
I am currently waiting on my boyfriend in Dublin airport. Where I have also ‘checked myself’ and second-guessed kissing and hugging him. I am going to give him the biggest hug and kiss now. But there will always be a small part of me feeling what can only be described as being embarrassed. I hate myself for still feeling this about a man who means everything to me.”
In 2010, I was walking down Parnell Street with my partner, holding his hand. It was about 8pm in the winter so it was dark. Two men, who were very tall and muscular, pushed past me, spat in my face and said something in Russian. I didn’t really know what was happening and I immediately replied, “What the hell was that for?” In my young, foolish way, I spat back at him.
This time, they both stopped and turned to me, calling me a faggot, telling me I didn’t deserve to live. The one who spat at me initially kicked me in the chest and knocked me down. My partner picked me up and we rant to the other side of Parnell Square while the two men abused us. We were lucky they didn’t follow us.
“In school as a teenager the word faggot was more commonly used than any other insult. It was also the ultimate insult.
If you were a faggot you were an outcast, no one wanted to be seen talking to a gay person in school in case people started to suspect you were gay.
I always knew I liked guys and girls. I was comfortable with that until I started secondary school. I had a crush on a guy in my class. He was really nice, funny and athletic. He was a real catch. We ended up becoming really close and eventually spent the night together.
It was amazing. I felt as though I was exploring such an important part of my personality and it made me feel balanced for the fist time. Until one day it came out in school that he was gay.
I will forever be ashamed of the fact that when he was outed, in the interest of self preservation, I cut all ties with him. I know that he needed me during that time and through the rest of school but I was too scared of the witch hunt to be friends with him.
Subsequently, he no longer was taken seriously by any of the students and any time the teacher would ask him a question in class, some students would repeat what he said back in a lisped voice.
When he stood up for himself in yard he would swiftly receive a punch in the face from whichever scumbag felt like hitting him. I was also bullied for different reasons which led me to being afraid to open up about my sexuality. I can never forgive myself because I know if I had the courage to be there for him we could have gone through it together.”
Growing up and coming out as a lesbian in Ireland was one of the hardest things I have ever done and probably will ever do. When I say ‘will do’, it’s because it is a continuous thing coming out, constantly having to tell new people you meet that you’re gay, having to answer the “have you a fella?” question with “no, but I have a girlfriend”.
It does get easier coming out though, you learn who you can say it to and who you can’t.
Most of my family have always been 100 per cent supportive. Although growing up, my father would sometimes make comments about gay men. I remember watching a Christina Aguilera music video for her song ‘Beautiful’ when I was a young teenager and two men kissed, nothing vulgar or perverted, just a simple kiss between two people who were obviously supposed to be in love. My father straight away turned the TV off and told me it was disgusting. That has stayed with me, I will never forget how sickened he looked by it. When I was coming out to him that’s all I could think of. Since coming out to him though he has completely changed his attitude and even loves one of my gay friends as if he were his own son. It was because of sheer ignorance and knowledge of gay people that he thought he was supposed to hate them.
“I’ve never experienced homophobia among my friends or family, which I’m quite fortunate for, but I have had random encounters whilst holding hands in public places such as:
There was also an occasion where a drunk guy hugged and serenaded me with “I Want It That Way” by Backstreet Boys just because I was gay but that felt more puzzling than particularly homophobic…”
Just one example of homophobia amongst many I have experienced was when I was fourteen. It was my first day back to school in Second Year and we had PE.
We had swimming for that module. That morning I had found myself attracted to a guy for the first time in the swimming pool, so naturally my mind was abuzz with questions concerning my identity.
After the class, all the boys were changing out of their swimwear and one of them had worn his underwear having forgotten trunks. The rest of the lads slagged him, which he went along with, making a show of himself.
I was changing, wanting to get out of there in time for the next class. I had been shoved into, tripped up, had things thrown at me and had comments like “gay” and “fag” spat at me up until this point in school.
He then came up from behind me, pushed me and held me against the wall, grinding into me, feeling my genitals, saying things along the lines of “you like that, huh faggot?”, goaded on by all of the rest of them as they laughed and pointed – like something out of a bad teen high-school flick.
He took off his underwear and proceeded to shove his naked rear into my face as he was drying himself with a towel right up against me, all the while much to the continuous hilarity of the other boys.
During all of this I had frozen, having no idea what was going on, with traumatic memories being triggered by what was transpiring.
Bear in mind that not even I had realised that I was gay up until that morning – I barely knew what being gay was, having been brought up in a hugely Evangelical household, and had been taught that it was unnatural – all action had been taken simply under the *assumption* that I was gay. No one did anything to try and stop it. I don’t remember much after that, I just slunk out.”
Here is an account of my memorable events in the last 10 years:
1. I am told frequently that I am straight acting and looking. It is meant as a compliment but kind of implies that looking “gay” is bad.
2. As recently as yesterday, I was called a faggot by a group of young lads while walking in my front gate.
3. I have also had a few comments from work colleagues. One woman said to me that she would drown her son if he was gay.
4. I was being affectionate to my boyfriend while we were in traffic and a group of lads in the car next to us were shouting slurs at us.
5. I was heading home after a night out in Cork city and a group of young girls threw a bag of chips at one of my gay friends and were calling us all the traditional names.
6. I was dancing with my partner at his cousins wedding and had negative comments passed by other wedding guests.
My immediate reaction is to ignore what is being said and to get out of the situation as fast as possible. I generally don’t take it to heart. I put up with it.
I consider myself one of the lucky ones as I have never been physically attacked, I have a fantastic partner, my family and friends are supportive and I have never felt that my employers discriminates against me.”
Living with a group of friends, there was an incident between myself and another girl, a disagreement of sorts. Which happens when cohabiting in rented accommodation. I thought this was done and over with until a few days later after coming home from work that evening.
I remember thinking it was strange as I’m usually the last one home that there was no one else home yet. I had a shower and while I was upstairs I heard a knock on the front door. When I came down I could see two guys through the glass, one I recognised as the brother of the girl I had the disagreement with.
I explained as I opened the door that she was not here but he said it’s you (me) I actually came to see and with that he jammed his foot in the door and pushed his way in. As he punched me in the face the other guy held my arms behind my back to prevent me from trying to protect myself.
He mumbled many offensive things along with the fact I was never to upset his little sister again “faggot”, “puff”,” bet your enjoying this in a way aren’t you?”
“If I have to ever come back here to deal with you again I’ll kill you!”
They left me in a heap on the floor as he kicked me and walked away his last words were “dirty queer”.
To say this had a profound effect on me would be an understatement. I couldn’t sleep, I avoided my home as much as possible and shortly after that I had to move out as I was terrified to upset that guys “little sister”.
As time goes by though you try and forget or block out this awful thing that happened to you.
To be gay bashed in your own home. But there was lots of times I would look in the mirror and wonder what was it about me that made that made me such an easy target, not even so much the beating, but the ring of the words in my mind that would give me bad dreams. I found myself trying to make myself appear “less gay”. Conscious of how I dressed, walked or even how I spoke.
“I am a 30-year-old woman. I am straight, yet I too have been the victim of homophobia. It’s something I’ve put to the back of my mind for many years, however when I saw the video of Panti in the Abbey Theatre, a few memories rushed back.
I wouldn’t dare to say my experience was as harrowing or disturbing as Rory’s or many of the other victims of homophobia that have come to light, however it is an honest recount of what happened to me.
When I was 17 years old, my brother who was 18 at the time, bravely came out to his friends and family. Word quickly spread through our small town, and whilst I personally couldn’t see the big deal (he was still the same person to me!), he became the victim of idle gossip.
My brother was living away from home at the time, happy in college and living his life, and so I found myself “answerable” to people on his behalf. If anyone asked if it was true my brother was gay, I said yes.
I couldn’t honestly see a problem with it, yet dealt with people, of all ages.
I was out with friends one night in my hometown and ended up at the chipper (as is customary in small town Ireland). I was talking to a group of people that I kind of knew. I could see a couple of lads whispering but didn’t pass much heed. All of a sudden, one of the lads spat at me, and said my brother was a paedophile, his friend backed him up. They both got in my face and ranted about how disgusting my brother was. No one backed me up. I answered back but nothing I said could drown out the abhorrent claims they made about my lovely, kind, caring, wonderful big brother, and of myself being ‘guilty’ by association.”
I’m sure you have received quite a few emails, but I would like to offer my experiences. I’m a 22-year-old gay man and I’ve experienced plenty of homophobia through my childhood and even now to an extent.
I don’t agree with bullying and I have a younger sister going through it as she is somewhat different and it pains me to think she might be going through what I was when I was little. I was always a little different and I knew very early on in primary school that I was different and I had an idea that I was gay in second class.
I was bullied on a daily basis, normally by the same group of kids, but not always. If certain kids found me weird, the other kids were soon told that if they hung with me, they would catch what I had. This hampered my self confidence a lot growing up. I was called a lot of gay slurs, gay, faggot you name it.
I remember one day going for a walk and just breaking down crying in the middle of field, thinking ‘why me?’ I remember our priest telling us when I was in third class that being gay was an illness and that if you were gay you were going to burn in hell. Harsh words but they were said to me in 1999 and I remember just leaving the classroom and crying and wishing I didn’t exist.
I was relieved when I was sent to a different secondary school than all my friends as I believed it would be a fresh start. However it was much worse and it wasn’t because of the students. By second year I had really accepted who I was and although I was bullied by some kids, I tried not to let it bother me.
However, we had two choice subjects, metalwork or home economics. Although I did like to cook, I was talented with metal work. However, the teacher was very homophobic. Either he found out on his own or he was told that I was gay but once I picked his subject I was his target. He called me slurs, put me down on a daily basis, he even threw things at me. All of this was reported to the principal but teachers stick together.
It wasn’t until I was physically cut by an object that had been thrown that the principal paid attention to it and even then it was my fault for being a disruption, the disruption being I kept my head down, did my work and didn’t talk to anyone for fear I’d unleash the teacher’s wrath.
Eventually, my mother and dad forced the principal to allow me to transfer subjects. I just avoid the teacher from then on.
When I got my first boyfriend, I was quite open with him in public, believing that if straight couples could hold hands, then I could with my boyfriend too even though it wasn’t the done thing and I got a lot of name calling for it.
But the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever experienced in my life with regards to homophobia is that my relationship with my boyfriend was brought up in a town meeting that my dad was part of.
The town feared that I shouldn’t be open and that I was not only promoting the wrong type of lifestyle but also that I was scarring young children by flaunting my gay ways as if influencing them to become gay or hurt their growth and that their town tourism would suffer as no one would want to come to a town with a gay. (We were a very small tight nit country community).
Now although I suffered homophobia and I do constantly check myself, I’ve tried my best to always be myself. I was the first to bring a boy to my debs (despite people saying I couldn’t). I was the first out of six children to bring a partner home, and to Christmas, and the first to move out with my boyfriend and now the first to become engaged to him. My family is very supportive and for the most part have always been (my mum had a bit of a problem adjusting when I was young, but eventually put her views aside and we’ve grown closer).
I find that the big stuff, the slaps or the outright insults are easier to get over, because they are homophobic, no one can dispute their harshness, the insulting manner of them. What I find more difficult is the little things. The feeling that I’m less of man because someone slaps me on the bum jokingly, or when I pass a group of men and I get a whistle or a fag shouted at me.
The fact that I was told I couldn’t compliment a work buddy on his hair because it freaks him out for a gay guy to say that to him.
They aren’t outwardly insulting and you find yourself reasoning with the insult, trying to definitely define it as an insult should someone dispute why you are upset or offended and it’s kind of like your trying to reason with yourself, telling yourself no this wasn’t a slap in the face, he should think like that, maybe it is weird, was I being too gay around him, did he think I was coming onto him, things like that.
I’ve experienced plenty of homophobia, many incidents that I haven’t mentioned from outside and within the gay community, but I’ve always done things my own way, deciding for myself what I want to think or where I want to take my life. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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Stop peanlizing the private sector for your failure to build affordable housing
@Tim: well said Tim.
@Tim: what do you mean the Private Sector? Do you mean people in full time paying jobs trying their hand at being a landlord?
There are too many greedy part time parasitic landlords out there benefiting from other peoples’s wages.
@Bat Daly:
Do you think if they all left the situation would improve?
@Bat Daly: nope, it’s not a lucrative way to get one up on your “impoverished” mates. It’s a real noose around the neck of hard working people in Ireland.
Yes. You pay tax at highest rate for income earned
No. You will never cover your mortgage.
And yes. Lots of people with multiple properties are stuck in negative equity. Just a relative term yes, but most people are not willing to pay the banks 100k to get rid of their home.
@Bat Daly: You can say the same for nurses, doctors, shop keepers…..basically anyone providing a service?
You comment regarding landlords, who have other full time employment, being parasitic is ironically enough just the reverse. They are trying their best to not to be parasitic by having a job and therefore providing for their own families and have to be a, “parasite”, on other members of society by going onto the dole. This particular type of landlord normally uses their property as a pension pot, again, so as not to be a “parasite” on society…..
@Bat Daly: No one is forcing anyone to use landlords – go away and purchase your own house or build one or get one of the many social homes that the government isn’t building!
@Gavin Scott: aw!
@Tim: Someone has to be held to blame for the government’s lack of any meaningful action on the whole housing issue. First it was blaming the homeless on being homeless, then it was mortgage holders in trouble as looking for an excuse not to pay their mortgage. Now it’s private landlords.
How long will it take for this proposed legislation to take effect. Will it only effect private landlords and give the vultures another free ride.
Private landlords have their place in the housing market. But any legislation should provide a level playing field for both landlord and Tennant, giving security to both parties.
As long as the government continue to look after the banks and vultures, we will only ever see sticking plaster solutions, and blame being applied
Affordable and social housing is the answer to the whole debacle. The government have no interest in either.
@P.J. Nolan: Yes, Clear out the skum Landlord’s
@B9xiRspG: Great the way you can just jump to conclusions. I have my own house. I had a business. I was brown bearten by friends into to buying an investment property 15 years ago. I did it because every Tom Dick and Mary was doing it. After a year, I lost interest and preferred to concentrate on my business and work for a living instead of trying to scab the wages of the young couple renting from me who thought they would never get on the property ladder so I sold the property.
I know many people who have many properties and see themselves as business people. They are not. They are parasites who dont care that they are controlling the supply and demand of houses to people who just want a home, not an investment property. Just a home.
@Michael Carty: clearly a landlord!!!!!
@Gavin Scott: I don’t own a house and never will on a carers allowance, I am renting from a private landlord and they are second to none. I agree that we cannot blame people for making a living including landlords. However, there are some landlords that are going way above the odds in charging a fair price for their rental properties. I was actually looking at daft.ie this morning and I seen a house for rent for €1,000 per month that same house two years ago was €550 a month that is a big increase in the rent, people like myself couldn’t afford to rent anything above €550 and there’s nothing available under €900 in my area. And I live in fear everyday of having to find a new place to rent when my landlords look for their house back.
@Bat Daly: So is it morally wrong to work and own property?
I think you need to change your name to Bats, Daly.
@Danny Rafferty: Where did I say its morally wrong?
You must think it is. I don’t think its morally wrong in itself but it was the crazy culture in the 00′s where you were no one if you didn’t have a property portfolio. Property speculation caused the property sector to overheat and subsequently go bust.
@Tim: spot on!
@Bat Daly: #begrudgersireland
@Eamonn Kiely: An accidental landlord. As soon as Im out of negative equity, Im selling. Ive no interest in being a landlord. Current rents are still around €300 a month less than celtic tiger mortgage repayments….
By the way, can you tell me what is wrong with someone being a landlord, who rents out housing for a fee, as oppossed to a doctor, who will charge for saving your life or relieving pain, or a funeral director who provides funeral services, or a shop keeper who sells food, which we all need to stay alive, or vet who tends to sick animals? ….. All are essential goods/services provided by profit……
What would our country be like if every single landlord left the industry? Chaos is the answer
@Bat Daly: There’s loads of houses for sale on Daft.ie if anyone is looking for a house. ………
Just saying!!
@Bat Daly: How noble of you batt. Did you sell your property at a knock down rate to that poor couple trying to get on the property ladder? You did in your eye.
I foresee the crisis getting worse. Nothing like gov’t interference to drive LL’s out of the market.
Over 50% in tax on every penny the tenant pays goes back to the GOVT.
Just not worth the hassle.
@Niallers: some landlords will leave and more professional landlords will replace them. There is no housing stick being taken out of the market. Someone will buy or rent the properties.
Rents are high at the moment. Rent yields are extremely high. There are plenty of landlords to enter the market if other landlords want to exit.
No landlord is being forced to stay in the market. They can easily sell and exit.
@Michael Lang: the landlords that replace them might be better at meeting the minimum requirements, but they’ll also be better at squeezing every penny out to cover their investments. Cold maths will dictate how they act (as it does in most big businesses).
Most private, or accidental landlords are willing to take under the market rate for a good long term tennant that pays rent on time and didn’t give them any hassle.
@Michael Lang: they wont all sell….Air B n B
@Michael Lang: easily known you know very little or nothing about the rental sector Michael. Yes, when the landlord sells up no private landlords in their right minds will buy. The fogging vultures will continue to squeeze their grip on the rental market, and unlike the private landlords, will charge whatever rent they feel like charging while paying no taxes into the economy and are not answerable to anybody including the rtb. As regards Minister Murphys recent announcement, he clearly shows of his desperation and total lack of solutions to this housing emergency which was clearly created by successive governments and not the private landlord
@Michael Dowd: yes Eoghan Murphy has bought into the myth that clamping down on LLs is the answer despite the colossal tax take being the reason why LLs can’t turn a profit. Can’t be long left for Eoghan now! Alan Kelly had some similar strong interventions some years back and they have hindered and not helped. Eoghan Murphy’s attempts are similarly also destined to founder. The definition of insanity is pursuing the same policy and repeating the same mistakes as the past but expecting a different result.
@Niallers: as an accidental landlord I’ve my rental property on the market. Selling as I just can’t be dealing with revenue & the amount of tax I pay every year on it. I’ve had 3 great tenants live there but enough is enough. I don’t over charge my tenants and if there was ever a problem I got it sorted ASAP. The govt wonder why there’s a housing problem, when you treat the people supplying the houses like crap, then it’s time to go.
30 initiatives later, and the problems are only getting worse. FG still tinkering around the symptoms rather than tackling the causes of the housing national emergency/rental crisis.
@The Risen: They don’t care, Too busy looking after their corporate masters.
@David Huston:
You are correct, FFG don’t really care, and yet they are 60-65% in the polls?
@P.J. Nolan: Thick Paddy is Thick Paddy.
@P.J. Nolan: ROFL.
@VeeryDrink:
Or they are of average intelligence and don’t like the alternative.
P. S. I wouldn’t start your political campaign with that slogan.
So if this is the case, can the proposed new bill also have a public register of Bad Tenants who won’t pay their rent, over-hold a property and completely damage & destroy a property. Can they be criminally prosecuted too!! Fair is Fair now.
@Karrie: that is another issue. The primary problem is affordable rental accomodation and the role of a minority of predatory landlords who are engaged in rent gouging.
@Michael Lang: Landlord A rents out a house he has inherited for 1,000 E a month. The Tennant stops paying after 6 months. The landlord gets roughly 3,000 of that after tax.
The landlord then has to go to try and get the Tennant evicted so that’s another 6 months.
Landlord finds house in wrecked after the year and needs to find 10,000 quid to fix it.
Landlord is left with choice up the rent, Air BnB or sell up. Instead of putting a cap on rents bring the tax down on rental incomes to 30%.
@Michael Lang: ‘predatory landlords’
I like that and i will certainly use it next time I have a run-in
Yet again no proposed changes for tenants. A tenant can stop paying rent and face no criminal charges but it is theft of a service
@Kal Ipers: plus the damage they can do to the property. Gardai wouldn’t get involved, solicitors will tell you its a waste of time chasing them in court because it would cost the landlord more.
Very one-sided.
@Kal Ipers: the problem is rent gouging by a small minority of landlords who are using scarce supply in a predatory and opportunistic manner. This is having a desperately adverse impact on the lives of some tenants.
Landlords are very well represented in Ireland and have a highly effective lobbying group. If there is a small minority of tenants not paying rent, that is a separate issue requiring separate measures.
The immediate priority is to control the predatory landlords. Good, decent and responsible landlords have nothing to fear. The predatory ones will oppose such a measure in case they might get caught and suffer consequence, however unlikely this may be.
@Michael Lang: ‘Landlords are very well represented in Ireland and have a highly effective lobbying group.’
52% tax, rent controls and now the threat of being thrown into prison! Doesn’t sound much like representation to me….
@Michael Lang: I don’t understand rent gouging. Surely any service provider from hotelier to taxi driver, from barber to prostitute should be allowed to charge what the market will support? If prices are too high the solution is to increase competition in the sector by incentives to existing landlords to stay and incentives for new landlords to enter. Markets find their own equilibrium. Once the Government intervenes in the free market well then they hold the reins and are responsible for presiding over the dysfunction that is the current housing market.
@Brian Deane: Offer a fair and intelligent rent to your tenants and this shouldnt be a concern
And this is supposed to help? And still new houses built? As if people in danger of losing their house are going to get involved in a campaign against landlords! Cop on Murphy! Build!
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: no new houses.
@gowfc@yahoo.com W:
FG bull Snighten.
Planning permission should be granted on condition that 2o% of new builds are affordable houses and 20% are social houses.
@Christy Nolan:
and then fewer developers will bother to build….
How about make it easier for a Landlord to evict non paying Tennant’s and start the wheels in motion on evicting the 20,000 or so people who have been living rent free dodging the banks for over 5 years.
That would instantly free up 20,000 homes for people to move into. As for the 20,000 evicted I’m sure of having not paid a Rex off their mortgage in over 5 years they have a nice little stash somewhere.
@Lie Smeller: Nice in theory but plenty of the ‘poor, stricken landlord’ will simply use such a measure to boot out any tenants who arent willing to pay ~3000/Monthly on a one bed sh*tbox.
Ive been renting for years and I have yet to meet the ‘noble landlord’ that is so often spoken about in these comment sections
How about (1) re-instating mortgage interest relief for the purpose of calculating taxeable income – FG cut that by 25% (2) Get rid of the USC Tax on rental income (7%) (3) Get rid of PRSI (4%) tax on rental income. Items (1) thru (4) were introduced by FG bring effective income tax on rental income to around 60% – more in Dublin if you factor in the (new) LPT tax. LL’s used to pay 40% tax. That’s a 33% increase in the effective tax rate on rental income. No wonder LL’s are staying out and selling up. At this stage the only ones we’ll have left are International culture funds who pay no tax, and buy these mortgages at heavily discounted rates.
@gregory: I know of several LLs in the last year even who have called it a day. The interesting thing is that the RTB can tell you how many registered landlords it has on its books but LLs remain considered as active for four years even if they have sold up within that period. It’s a really important missing statistic – how many LLs are leaving the sector year on year?
@Sean: Good point. One of the biggest problems with the RTB is that it was not set up to be a neutral body between landlords and tenants. It has always fulfilled a political function in helping the tenant and punishing the landlord. It’s worth remembering that in the aftermath of the crash when landlords and rents were crashing, there were no efforts by the government to intervene in the market as thousands of landlords went to the wall. Intervention was only deemed necessary when the tide started to go the other way and demand started to outstrip supply. Now you’ve got a situation where Threshold et al have a hotline to Wonderboy Murphy who then instructs RTB to implement their latest request. This is why there is no demand on RTB to publish stats that might contradict the FG Threshold coalition.
How much notice is enough? If a tenant is in place now for 8 years or more they get 228 days or 33 weeks or over half a year.
Rent – you can’t change too much
Drink – you can’t charge too little
So much for a free market economy. FG just using price controls instead of fixing the real issues.
We don’t have enough housing and we keep pumping more and more jobs into places under strain.
What happened to the prefab solution that was meant to alleviate some of the issues.
If you aren’t building social housing by the next election. I will for the first time, not be giving FG a vote.
This is window dressing and a smoke screen to the real reason that we aren’t buildings enough new homes and building nearly zero social @finegael
@Greg Mumble: How can you save money for a deposit when the incrrase in house prices wipe out the value of any deposit saved.
This happened in the last boom. Have learned nothing?
@Greg Mumble: sounds like you have it sorted there.
Currently, the price of houses and rent is at an unaffordable level. Can there is some initiatives for creating jobs outside The Pale, so people can afford to live outside County Dublin and still afford a place to live, without adding on the costs of commuting great distances.
Mr “rolled up sleeves” fiddled and diddled while the Housing/homeless crises worsens.
Maybe a committee to investigate this issue further….!!!!!!
Build more houses…..wonder would that work….mmmmmm
‘could face criminal charges’ just like the ‘could face criminal charges’ if landlords passed on there property tax to tenants. But not even one case brought before any court so we must assume all landlords never mistreat tenants or ‘could face criminal charges’ means nothing. All this is doing is wasting time until this minister gets reshuffled and washes his hands just like Simon before him.
My landlord raised my rent by €300 per month two years ago, and tried to raise it again by another €350 per month this year. I live in Dublin. Some landlords simply don’t care about these laws.
@Trish: don’t forget that half of that rent increase goes directly to the Government as tax so you could say that your (indirect) tax has increased with no benefit to the landlord whatsoever on this portion. This tax is then used to pay the rent of other tenants and if you are receiving rent supplement then you are effectively receiving this money back into your own hand so you can’t complain about that.
@Sean: so what exactly; Trish should feel compassion for someone expecting an extra €750 hike over 3yrs on,. presumably, the exact same premise?
Went you finally do comeback down to reality; the rest of us will be waiting…
@Sean: excuses don’t make the hike any less illegal Sean and doesnt make me any less homeless
Firstly the Government need to build houses for rent or sale to make it possible for people to have a home,a state owned construction firm,non profit in competition with private construction firms,secondly they need to stop putting landlords and tenants against each other ,legislate properly to protect landlords and tenants from bad landlords and tenants,give the RTB some real teeth to decide,enforce and fine landlords and tenants for the breaching etc of their contracts,not enough affordable houses ,too many dodgy landlords who do what they want and too many tenants that dont pay and trash houses without any consequences thats the problems we have today , if the ministers dont realise that now then they need to move aside and let someone with some cop on to do the job.
Now the blueshirts want to make criminals out of landlords.
Of course, if the blueshirts hadn’t stopped the construction of social housing, (as is the norm in every other first world country), in 2011, there wouldn’t be so much pressure on the private housing sector.
These muppets cannot see the wood for the trees.
Every scam they pull, such as the €20k first time buyers scam, the RAS scam and the HAP scam, makes the problem worse.
There are the joys of having privileged blueshirts in office.
Does the situation on the ground not say it all, the government is failing pure and simple. All this fake news that everything in the garden is rosy.
Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. Otherwise it’s just a waste of time.
@Brian Lilly: empty gestures are usually a waste of time but for some reason on this occasion some Landlords are getting alarmed.
Tick, tock Eoghan Murphy.
Vote for change come election people, or put up with these FFG…
@Willy Malone: The masses will still give them their votes or they’ll get back in again because: the people who benefit from FFG will go out in droves to see them continuing in power.
A huge portion of people who bemoan and lambast their frankly horrendous policies and elitism wont bother casting a votes because ‘they are all the same/ whats the point’ and then surprise surprise the vermin stay on.
Also; there is no credible 3rd party or option in Irish politics: SF would raise us to the ground; SD are space-cadets, Labour (hahaha) or Eamon ‘yer man’ Ryan… and thats not including the radical (somewhat commendable but VERY flawed) Socialist Left who dont have any notion of numbers or practicality…
If all the greedy landlords would sell their second or third properties there might actually be some houses to buy…
@Tom Sawyer: What people who may think about their futures by investments in property so they are not relying on the state to fund their retirements ? That’s what the majority of landlords are. Your also forgetting the thousands of people who just want to rent in the city and when the time is right buy a house.
@Lie Smeller: Why not just work and pay your pension and not rely on someone else to pay your mortgage and retirement for you? The greed is beyond belief in Ireland.
@Tom Sawyer: you don’t have to rent, that’s a choice you make.
@Citygal: Nah it’s certainly not a choice for everyone
@Citygal: The choice is rent or buy. To buy you need a hefty deposit. For which you have to work in a job. Of course you need to live somewhere to hold a stable job. Hence you have to rent. High rent prices, particularly in areas where the jobs are in Ireland, lead to very little or perhaps no savings to put towards a deposit to buy.
The people who make the argument that “Just save and buy” are elitist fools. They are already either the privileged few who inherit sums of money from parents or whole properties (then rent them for exacerbated prices to supplement their income) or are on high income jobs in which saving for a deposit is a realistic goal. Or maybe they’ve moved home with their parents, which again isn’t an option for everyone for a multitude of reasons.
You have to rent to live somewhere. At some stage everyone will have to rent a home. A free market economy only works where those who demand of goods and services have options. It is increasingly apparent that this is not the case as people are running out of options for places to live.
Renting isn’t a choice. It’s a 21st century necessity. In the UK they are actually trying to face that problem head on. 33% of people in their 20s and 30s are predicted to never be financially able to buy a house. Which is insance. But tenancy laws over here are far more robust and protect both the tenant and landlord well. Which is what the RBT should be doing. Giving power to both sides to protect their needs. Not the standard half assed legislation Fine Gael have been serving up as government just so they can say “Look we did SOMETHING”. But that’s not good enough.
So in summary, shove your priveliged “Renting is a choice” back into your drawer of inflammatory first world comments. Hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland are facing the reality of a poorly regulated housing market and a government that gave up on the idea of a decentralised economy years ago. We’re becoming the UK. The UK the government acts in ways that really only benefit England. In Ireland, the government acts in ways that really only benefit Dublin.
Build low cost high density housing units on public owned land FFS how difficult is it to understand supply & demand!!!
Smoke and mirrors approach blame the landlords for the mess and also get them to sort it. Nothing new here in government approach.
That’s the stuff
Back to the dail today after their Easter break for possibly the most incompetent underqualified bunch in the country! First order of business, should they create an independence day! The agri minister, bloated and ready to burst with self importance, was exposed as being totally lost during the recent fodder crisis. The Galway hospital had to hide the queue/crowd in the a&e on the taoiseachs recent visit because to him, there is no health crisis. Where on earth would you get such idiotic behaviour from such a shower of incompetent idiots.
@Adrian: but, but, but they said they could do the job! Were they lying.
When you fine the landlord, who gets the money, as a results of the fine. Why not give the old tenant 50% of the maxim fine so they can have the finance to relocate to a new accomidation of their choice.
Surprising , when it well known that quite a lot of TDs are landlords. but they did get a pay raise recently
And everyone in the Dáil doing the usual placing blame finger pointing at each other, all while the homelessness numbers continue to rise. It is no wonder the problem will never be solved; this, and because of a general lack of will.
@Patty Cullinane: There was no homeless crisis in 2010.
Noonan’s vulture mates along with the various FG scams (HAP, RAS etc) have created this problem.
In fairness, they were backed in this for 5 years by the ultra right wing ‘labour’ party.
@VeeryDrink: I don’t disagree with the finger pointing. The problem is that it never gets anywhere. And quite frankly….Eoghan Murphy’s attempt to finger point back made him sound like a pratty school boy. But FG is a minority govt. who are not living up to the Confidence and Supply Agreement…and i am waiting for FF to do more about it than fingerpoint.
@Patty Cullinane: FF are led by a yellow coward, they’ll do nothing.
Ya, great idea, kick the tenants out and raise it as much as you like
@keano: Except you can’t do that. I left my rented apartment in Carrickmines when my lease was up. I was offered a 2nd lease I turned it down. I moved out the property was up on daft for the same money I was paying.
@Greg Mumble: What about cheating tenants that stop paying and damage the property?
I think it’s very wrong landlords can use your rent/wages to get a mortgage yet you can’t. More land should be zoned affordable the units can only ever sell times the minimum wage.
What this means is their will be less landlords registering their properties-illegally letting and tenants will take it as they are so desperate to have a roof over their heads! What about those of us who have already lost our rental homes Eoghan and are in temporary accommodation?!?!
@Becky Cowman: Eoghan is going to fix that for you by introducing legislation to drive more landlords out of the market.
When the landlords make the rules the rules favour the landlords.
@Lobert Rester: not sure that means there mystic meg
What if some tenants in the list wants to pay more to secure property. There is always a loophole. Landlords will ask the tenants that if they offering more money than advertised on daft they will get it.
The problem: lack of rental properties causing rent prices to increase
Solution: disincentivize investment in rental properties
Great. The stupidity of our politicians know no bounds.
And it will probably turn out to be unconstitutional. That’s the FG way.
It costs, on average, €1,000 a week to keep a single family in a dodgy hotel, that’s €4k a month.
A massive social house building programme would cost a fraction of this amount per family.
Yet Paddy would rather blame the people who need an affordable roof over their heads than the FFG gombeens who’ve created this mess.
Dumb as rocks!
Eoghan Murphy won’t be getting my vote!
Landlords and similar non-productive types in the economy should be taxed massively. The home/land is the asset to accrue value.
@mike scott: they are
@mike scott: if you are operating legally nearly half goes to the government ,that’s why the they will do as little as they can to interfere.I think if a Tennant is a regular payer of rent for a set time the bank’s should lend him the money or her ahem ahem also I think the bank should own the house until it is paid for or up to a certain point on and if the purchaser runs into trouble and fail’s to pay ,he should be able to walk away and consider it as a rent . The bank can sell the house for the value that is current and if is exceed’s a given amount they have to share it with purchaser/ Tennant .Would that work
Everything but to tell us when one can sell the property next. Blame landlords for their own incompetence. Why would they fix the issue when the tax landlords pay on these properties is the gift that keeps on giving.
One minute we’re a capilised country next minute we’re a communist wish this inadequate government who make up it’s mind
I had no option but to recently sell a rental property. Having dropped the rent during the recession I was subsequently caught in the rent control trap with a cost to me of the shortfall in mortgage payments.
Good tenants had to move out as I needed vacant possession in order to sell.
The property was recently advertised for rent at an 80% increase. The PRTB say they can do nothing unless new tenants make a complaint to them.
What about the tenants sitting in properties NOT paying rent – takes years to remove them – owners have to try and pay mortgage on same and at the same time they still have to legally repair or replace electrical goods etc while tenants are recking the property ! The whole system is totally ridiculous here at the moment. 36,000 landlords left the market last year and loads more are giving up its getting to the stage that it’s impossible to do business here now with TD telling tenants to break the law. It’s the shortage of houses not high rents thats the problem.
What if you are almost homeless with a child because the landlord cant accept HAP due to owning property tax..
Simple solution build high speed rail links linking all major cities and towns, making it quick and affordable to commute, doing this people won’t need to live in Dublin to work in Dublin , would also make it easier for people living in Dublin to work elsewhere boosting economies outside Dublin. Obviously it would cost billions but would sort so many issues.
Some landlords charge an extra 50 euro on top of the amount allowed by the HSE.And this goes into their pocket tax free
have your say