Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
FINE GAEL AND SINN Féin were happy to hype up a radio debate between Eoin Ó Broin and Richard Bruton but the studied policy discussion it actually turned into was probably a good thing.;
In what is surely some kind of parable for our times, the Twitter chatter about the debate was probably more intense than the actual reality.
The debate came about after Bruton tweeted taking issue with Ó Broin’s comments about a report detailing the cost developers are charging Dublin City Council for apartments.
‘Price gouging’ was what Ó Broin called it. Bruton said Ó Broin was ‘misusing’ statistics and that Sinn Féin’s housing policy was ‘threadbare’. Ó Broin quickly called for a ‘public debate’ between the two. RTÉ’s Drivetime was happy to oblige and so it was.
Not everyone was happy with the plan, with Labour Senator and housing spokesperson Rebecca Moynihan calling it “macho posturing” and seeking inclusion in the debate.
Not too dissimilar a request it must be said than this time last year when Sinn Féin issued a legal letter against RTÉ for its planned exclusion from an election debate.
The shoe perhaps being on the other foot on this occasion.
The build up to the debate even seemed to begin in the Dáil earlier when Pearse Doherty and Leo Varadkar clashed about housing during Leaders’ Questions.
It went along predictable lines, Doherty attacked Fine Gael’s “failed” housing policy and Varadkar said that Sinn Féin’s in the north was no better.
The Drivetime debate was of more substance and basically amounted to the pair outlining their party’s ideological approaches to housing.
The distance between them is perhaps best exemplified by the row over the development at Oscar Traynor Road in Santry, which Dublin City Councillors voted to reject in November.
TheJournal.ie outlined the various arguments for and against the development at the time. It amounted to a developer using public lands to build 853 new homes, 50% of which would be sold privately, 30% to social housing and 20% affordable housing.
Speaking about it this evening, Ó Broin said that the affordable housing could not be described as such, and that a two-bed home would be on the market for €357,000.
He said the privately sold homes would be on the market for over €400,000.
“Because it’s Dublin City Council land there’s no land costs in there, nobody can tell me the €357,000 for two bed apartment in Dublin on public land is a good use of land,” he said.
What you’re also not being told is that the land isn’t being sold, there’s no market valuation of that land and what was put to councillors last year was the free transfer of public land to a private developer.
Bruton said that the “root of the problem” was that Sinn Fein was sticking to the mantra of “only public housing on public lands”.
“They are seeking to exclude any private development on these lands. Now if that is allowed to take hold the notion of a State Development Agency to aggressively intervene in the housing market would be stillborn,” he said.
Bruton went on to say that all parties should support “mixed-developments to cater for all our community”.
The debate was moving along rather laboriously until RTÉ’s Sarah McInerney intervened with a text from a listener who asked the pair to pick one aspect of the other’s housing policy they could agree with.
Neither could do so.
No common ground it seems but at least the debate wasn’t the shouting match that some had feared. Listen and decide for yourself.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
“AROUND 3,000 PEOPLE rallied in Glasgow today” that’s a pitiful size for a march, you’d need a protest about 20 times bigger than that to carry any weight.
All the Celtic fans were in Dublin.
Why don’t they just march for independence?
They had their chance and they blew it!
If you’re talking about the ScotNats, yes they blew it. The majority who voted NO are being ignored time and time again by Saint Nicola and her single-issue party.
Harry – you do seem fine however with Saint Nigel and his single issue party ;-)
Bottlers
It would not be in Ireland’s interest for there to be an Independent Scotland. With the removal of the UK from the EU, the one plus point is the transfer of some UK based business to other parts of the EU, including Dublin. The last thing we want is Glasgow and Edinburgh vying for that business too! An Independent Scotland would also compete with Ireland for future foreign direct investment. From a competitive perspective, a unified UK is the best option for Ireland.
Exactly right George. A weakened UK outside the single market is in Irelands best interest. Sounds harsh but let’s not fool ourselves – the Brits were happy to impose economic sanctions on us from the 1930′s to the 1950′s during the so called “economic war” with the UK so we need to look out for ourselves.
Fred – please highlight, copy and paste any post I’ve made either in this article or in any others where I’ve made even the remotest indication of support for Farage, Boris, UKIP, Brexit or English nationalism. In your own time.
It was lack if Scotts who came out and voted in EU ref which is why the No side one.
Jusr over 60% turned out, if it has been 75-85% they would still be in the EU. The same with NI under 59% turnout.
Was over 70% in England and Wales. It was 85% in Scot Ind ref in 2014
That’s a piss poor turn out !!
They should have put the polling booths in off licences and chippers.
When Scotland eventually do decide to go it alone, it will be on their terms. Westminster will have no more say in how things shall be done! They definitely won’t be making the mistakes that the Irish did
Well you have to consider the fact that some supporters of the SNP did not come out precisely because they wanted a ‘No’ vote to win in order to force a second referendum on independence. Indeed, there were some SNP supporters who admitted to supporting Brexit for this very reason.
A mistake to break away in the first place
@rodrigo detriano:
Yes. WE made mistakes….but we are in clear water now and doing better than Scotland or Wales..and most of England.
the Scots will reject it again because they like being controlled by their masters in London.
The Scots rejected it the last time because they saw straight through the Yes Campaign for what it was: hot air, snake oil and flag waving. It was like watching the Brexit team in tartan.
Well, as I remember, the English living in Scotland were allowed to vote in the independence referendum. Wonder what would the result be if English excluded?
@Jindrich Marz
Interestingly, there were English people in Scotland who were in favour of Scottish independence.
As I remember, the 800,000+ Scots living outside Scotland in the rest of the UK (and therefore more likely to have positive views of Unionism) were excluded from IndyRef. Wonder what the result would have been had they been allowed to vote…? See how that argument cuts both ways?
Harry, you’re getting a lot of red thumbs but I agree with your comments.
Most Scots voted “no” because the figures didn’t stack up. It was an economic decision.
And that was when the tax haul from oil revenues looked healthy. The North Sea is likely never to recover to it’s recent heights with an unprecedented downturn in exploration and production.
Couple this with the fact that previously, the voters were voting for separation within the EU. i.e free trade with England. Given the fact that this is now no longer the case, and Scotland do 65% of their trade with England, then independence is going to be costly.
At the time of the first referendum an indecent financial analysis by a respected body concluded that the best case scenario on the Scottish governments anticipations would result in a 9% increase in income tax and a VAT rate of 28%. It can only be assumed that these figures would be worse in the current circumstances.
A vote for independence would be to cut off your nose, despite your face in the most spectacular fashion.
A recent yougov poll says that the vast majority of Scottish people still don’t want independence.
Yes that is because they like being controlled by the masters in London.
@Just Some Guy
The Scots are not controlled by anyone. They have the same rights as the English, the Welsh and the people of Northern Ireland.
Scotland would last about a week on there own.
Especially with the price of Brent down by 50%.
“their own” even. Bloody scousers.
Coming from someone who can’t distinguish the difference between their and there, I think I’ll avoid taking economic predictions from you. Scotland would do just fine as an independent state.
Scotland has natural resources and politicians who care about issues rather than themselves and their high powered friends! A far better example of a country than the banana republican kip they call Ireland!!!!!!!!
Not with Clan Sturgeon at the helm. Nationalist parties as a rule can’t be trusted to piss without someone else holding their todger for them.
@james, I suspect the same was said about Ireland when we got independence from the UK
You lost guys, now grow up and get over it.
Clan Sturgeon will never get over it. Maybe in thus respect they ARE more European – hold a referendum again and again and again until they get the ‘right’ result. Mind you, once they do get the result they want watch how fast Nicola and co. will pull a Brexit and say “nothing to do with us, let someone else sort out the chaos”
I would bet my house that Northern Ireland uniting with an independent Scotland is more likely than a United Ireland in the next 50 years.
Bet it, so
I would because the Nationalists in the North would unite with the Scots far more readily than the Loyalists in the North would unite with us.
So basically…Scotland gets to unilaterally decide whether to break up the UK, but the rest of the UK isn’t allowed to take Scotland out of the EU. Gotta love Nationalist exceptionalism.
Harry – Brexit was the biggest expression of English nationalism ever. Are you ok with that particular nationalism, but not so much with other regions of the UK?
No Fred – I voted Remain. Unlike Kippers and SNP cultists I’m consistent in my distaste for nationalism.
OK they will vote for independence and get ruled by Germany sounds familiar
Stuart Kaufman’s Seven Rules of Nationalism: 1. If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – your are merely occupiers. 2. If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed. 3. If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the Cradle of our Nation. 4. If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination. 5. If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression. 6. All of the above rules apply to us but not to you. 7. Our dream of greatness is Historical Necessity, yours is Fascism.
It was not a Scottish Referendum. It was a Referendum of the United Kingdom.
Scotland has traditionally been more European in outlook than England and Wales. It is nit surprising that it voted in favour of Reamin but Scotland’s result has no legal standing.
It is not unlikely that the exit deal finally negotiated will mean that the UK will retain most p, if not all, of the current obligations but will have no say in future policy making and legislation. The U.K. will end up just having an inferior position in Europe unless the UK can collapse the E.U. , which is what many of the pro Brexit want.
I wouldn’t even say they’re ‘more European in outlook’. Most social attitudes surveys (rather than the misleading political allegiance surveys) indicate that Scots hold very similar views to their English and Welsh counterparts as far as issues like taxes, welfare and immigration are concerned. A load of SNP supporters simply backed Remain because their party backed it; Clan Sturgeon simply looked for any excuse to say ‘look, we’re different from those nasty Southerners’.
Interesting to see what happens……
The SNP are left of centre, not left wing
Our day will come!! (For the west Brits)!!!!!
have your say