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Protesters take part in a pro-EU demonstration on10 October. Burzykowski Damian/Newspix/ABACA

Could Poland leave the EU? 'It wants to give two fingers to the EU, but also stay in'

We haven’t even finished Brexit yet, and now there’s talk of Poland drifting towards a similar EU exit.

AFTER POLAND’S SUPREME Court ruled last week that some EU laws were “incompatible” with the Polish constitution, and warned EU institutions not to interfere with its judiciary by requesting that it be independent from politics, some suggested that this could be the start of a ‘Polexit’. 

If the ruling seems of little consequence, it goes right to the heart of the purpose of the EU: to set democratic, societal and trade standards across its member states. Now one of those member states has ruled that its courts and laws overrule EU law.

A practical example of how this could affect Polish citizens is on LGBT+ issues: earlier this year, protests were sparked after several regions in Poland, with government backing, declared themselves free from “LGBT ideology”.

If the EU wanted to introduce a directive preventing discrimination on the grounds of sexuality, the Polish courts have effectively ruled that this won’t supersede the laws ruled on nationally – affecting the lives of Polish citizens and preventing social progress.

The latest escalation threatens to result in billions of EU funds being cut off to Poland, with one Irish MEP saying that if the EU doesn’t respond adequately, it could result in the EU “crumbling and shaking”.

Poland and Hungary are now trying to get the Court of Justice of the European Union to strike down a new measure that allows the EU to cut off funds to countries considered to be breaching the rule of law – something that both countries are running the risk of. 

This is the general consensus on the Poland EU membership question – that it wants to give “two fingers” to the EU courts, as one MEP put it, but ultimately to remain within the bloc.

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, of the nationalist, conservative Law and Justice Party (PiS), is to address the European Parliament next week on a controversial ruling from Poland’s Constitutional Court that questions the primacy of EU law.

On Tuesday, MEPs will discuss the contentious verdict of Poland’s Constitutional Tribunal, which states that cornerstone provisions of the Treaty on the EU are unconstitutional under Polish law, and on Thursday it will vote on a resolution relating to the same. On Wednesday, a debate on the one-year anniversary of the near-total abortion ban in Poland will also take place.

What Irish MEPs think

Independents4Change MEP Clare Daly says simply that “Polexit won’t happen”.

“Poland is a country where around 80% of the population supports EU membership; if the Polish government tried to eject Poland out of the EU they’d find themselves out on their ear as quick as you can wink.

“The Polish government won’t go near that nuclear option. Instead, the Law and Justice Party wants to have its cake and eat it – to give two fingers to the ultimate arbiter of EU law and rule of law, the CJEU, and stay inside the Union.

“What the Polish government has been doing isn’t trivial – it has gutted judicial independence, which means that people in Poland can no longer rely on having access to the fundamental right to an effective remedy when they’ve been wronged, and it has said this is none of the CJEU’s business, when the reality is that the EU can’t function if there’s no proper legal protection for citizens (and businesses), with the CJEU as the final decision-maker on this.

“So the EU’s back is really against the wall here, and if it doesn’t do something we could see the whole EU order start to crumble and shake – France has already been playing politics with trying to get around the CJEU’s ruling on data retention, for example, and if this Polish example is let slide, things will only get worse.

The general call in Brussels is for the Commission to bargain using the €24 billion Poland is due to get from the Recovery and Resilience Fund – ie, to refuse to release the money until Poland implements the CJEU rulings – but there’s a real danger with such a move that it’s ordinary Polish citizens will suffer most. The Commission needs to tread extremely carefully here.

Fine Gael MEP Deirdre Clune said: “Nobody wants to see a Polexit and I do not believe it will happen.

“The EU certainly does not, nor does the Polish government, as they recognise that public opinion is not in favour. I think the hundreds of thousands that protested across the country made a significant statement that the Polish government will recognise.

“The Commission is currently examining the ruling and has said that it will use all it’s powers to bring Poland in line with EU law.

“One area the Commission could take action is to withhold funding, €57 billion post Covid recovery funding for Poland had yet to be approved. Another is the implosion of daily fines that could be demanded through the ECJ.”

Barry Andrews MEP agrees that the pro-EU protests in Poland “underlined how positive Polish citizens are about the EU and the role of the ECJ as final arbiter of all matters pertaining to EU law”.

“The Commission and the Council will have to act with strength. No member state can treat the EU as a cash machine while failing to implement the rules that are part of membership.”

The Conference on the Future of Europe, an EU forum to look at the medium- to long-term future of the EU and what reforms should be made to it, will address issues such as the rule of law and uniformity among member states.

Poland and the EU: Timeline of events

October 2015:  The Law and Justice (PiS) party wins the general election and begins pushing through a string of controversial reforms that triggered mass protests at home and an EU threat of sanctions over rule of law violations. Questions about Poland’s place in the EU began in editorials in Polish news outlets.

October 2017: The Polish government comes under fire for encouraging citizens to “breed like rabbits” as it faced a sharp population decline – while also cutting funds for IVF treatment.

February 2018: The Polish government signals that it will sign into law a controversial Holocaust bill that absolves Polands part in the World War II genocide – threatening those who refers to Nazi German death camps as ‘Polish’ with fines or a jail term. 

July 2018: Ireland’s judiciary offers its support to its counterparts in Poland, after a retirement “purge” came into effect after the retirement age was reduced and certain judges were asked by the Polish president to retire. 

January 2020: Poland passed legislation that allows the government to fire judges whose rulings it does not like. An academic noted that it marked the beginning of a “process of de facto exit from EU legal order.”

rally-in-support-of-polands-membership-in-eu-in-cracow-poland-10-oct-2021 A protester is seen with the European Union flag in his coat during the rally. 10 October. SIPA USA / PA Images SIPA USA / PA Images / PA Images

13 July 2020: Then-PiS conservative leader Andrzej Duda wins a narrow majority in the general election – one of the closest in the countries history, reflecting polarised views on European Union membership.

August 2020: Dozens of small towns have declared themselves free of “LGBT ideology”, with the support of the Polish government. Duda criticised the LGBT movement is “more destructive” than communism.

October 2020: Polish protesters demonstrate and go on strike for seven consecutive days after a ruling by the government-controlled constitutional court ruled out abortions in all cases except rape and when the life of the mother is at risk.

3 July 2021: 64-year-old Donald Tusk, former president of the European Council, is elected the head of Poland’s strongest opposition party. “Today, evil rules in Poland and we are ready to fight against this evil,” he said.

October 2021: Poland’s top court ruled against the supremacy of EU law. Pro-EU rallies around the country are organised in response to the threat to EU membership. 

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75 Comments
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    Mute Hugo Bugo
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:17 AM

    Comments removed if you disagree with the journal or EU agenda, an absolute disgrace, people of Ireland, the irony, this article is supposed to be about democracy but an Irish news website removing any comments which agree with Poland leaving the EU and going against the EU agenda, we don’t even have democracy on our own shores, cancel culture strikes again, agree with me, disagree with me, no problem whatsoever,but comments removed for siding with Poland or any other member state having the right to leave the EU. The last time I checked Poland have a democratically elected government and all the EU is doing is forcing its agenda on member states through financial blackmail, it will ALL FALL DOWN sooner or later, whether comments are removed or not

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:27 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: I noticed that. I read your comment and then saw it was deleted.

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    Mute Gavin Linden
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:34 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: God wiling I’ll get to witness it.

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    Mute Hugo Bugo
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:38 AM

    @David Corrigan: thank you David, we have verification, this happens on a daily basis and how the Irish people turn a blind eye to this is astonishing, my comment had the most thumbs up when removed but was still quickly taken down, the journal comments section is basically a section for conformist comments , it’s a cherrleading section basically to give a false perception that the Irish people are in total agreement with the article and any discenting voices will be quickly silenced, enjoy Irish people as I’m off, i don’t want to be part of anything where my opinions are silenced or forced on me.

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    Mute john
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:39 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: your comment is still here

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:42 AM

    @john: Not the original one John. There was nothing wrong with Hugo’s post.

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    Mute Seán Ó Briain
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:51 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: Always playing the victim, aren’t you?

    If Poland wishes to remain in the EU, it has to adhere to the rules and ethos of the EU. If they don’t want to do that, they can leave. Nobody is forcing them to stay. It’s that simple, really.

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    Mute Hugo Bugo
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:08 AM

    @Marie Broomfield: it’s so interesting that someone’s views on democracy and EU membership can be censored and removed but Marie here saying it was a mistake that I was even born is allowed to stay up, nice

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:29 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: I’m amazed you’re still allowed have an account, Hugo. Some of the muck you throw around here isn’t even funny.

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    Mute Crypto S. Crazii
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:41 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: I have come to the point where I’m no longer taking part in the Journal Propaganda machine. I too have had almost as many comments removed as there have been left to remain. I am, as of today, removing this app and will no longer be a part of this obvious agenda drive on multiple fronts. I’ve enjoyed yours and others attempts to keep conversation in the realms of sanity on numerous occasions..

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    Mute Rebecca BarrettNp
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:55 AM

    @JusticeForJoe: Isn’t it hilarious watching these lads cry about ‘censorship’ on a privately owned platform that they get to use for free. You couldn’t make it up.

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    Mute Chris Gaffney
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:56 AM

    @Crypto S. Crazii: One gone!!!!

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    Mute Chris Gaffney
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:57 AM

    @Seán Ó Briain: Spot on. He does spout a lot!!

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    Mute SmallbutMighty
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    Oct 17th 2021, 11:37 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: sometimes very neutral comments are removed, I’ve had some removed myself for no apparent reason. I usual find though it’s only a particular type of commentor that throws their toys out of the pram when it happens, like their civil rights have some how being denied. Most reasonable people reword it and repost it. I can’t say I’ll miss reading your posts because they are usually baseless drivel in my opinion but I will say its definitely good to take a break every once in a while, it’s good to remind yourself that the readership of the journal is only a snap shot of society and the journalist and people who mange the site all have their own bias. If you can’t understand that then you’re probably better off surrounding yourself with like minded people and avoid comments sections altogether.

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Oct 17th 2021, 12:43 PM

    @Rebecca BarrettNp: It is. I sometimes wonder if they’re American

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    Mute Bill Spill
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    Oct 17th 2021, 1:03 PM

    @Gavin Linden: You won’t gav! :’D

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    Mute Contrary Mary
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    Oct 17th 2021, 4:27 PM

    @Hugo Bugo: It’s a comment section full of those who cannot take a difference of opinion without insulting the author. Most often it turns into a competition to see who can get the best insult in.

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    Mute Contrary Mary
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    Oct 17th 2021, 4:29 PM

    @JusticeForJoe: No worse than the personal muck you throw about as responses.

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    Mute Contrary Mary
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    Oct 17th 2021, 4:32 PM

    @Rebecca BarrettNp: Almost as funny as those who run to to their accounts to find comments to insult here, whilst hiding their own accounts.

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Oct 17th 2021, 7:25 PM

    @Contrary Mary: Great job, white knight. I’m sure Hugo will reward you for your valiant efforts.

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    Mute Bill Spill
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:32 PM

    @JusticeForJoe: You ever seen them in the same room … ?

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    Mute Stephen Boland
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:07 PM

    @Hugo Bugo: ah not you again

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    Mute Skipper Mac
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:21 AM

    In a strange twist of fate the EU is actually indebted to Britain for leaving. No member country in their right minds would ever leave it now.

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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Oct 17th 2021, 6:12 PM

    @Skipper Mac: apart from the old rump of the soviet elite, most Poles have no intention of leaving. They are very conscious of the benefits that have been enjoyed by the country since 2004, and any attempt to drag them back to the past will be well defeated.
    Like here though, there are some coming of age who are too young to remember thd bad old pre-eu days, but also like here, most of them have brains.

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    Mute Jim
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:19 AM

    George Orwell’s Animal Farm = the EU

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    Mute Graham Manning
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:44 AM

    @Jim: might wanna reread it.

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    Mute Jim
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:52 AM

    @Graham Manning: I havel. I’ve even done the voice of Boxer and Clover!

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    Mute Sean McCarthy
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:01 AM

    @Jim: All animals are equal, some are more equal than others. Kind of sums up the EU alright. I do think the EU need to moderate some bit or it will become the architect of its own downfall. What is good for Germany and France isn’t necessary good for Poland or Ireland for example. The EU needs to be agile enough to understand this.

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    Mute Jim
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:15 AM

    @Sean McCarthy: Changing the rules written on the walls in favour of the powers that be. Changing the voting rights. All animals are equal – more so than others.
    The European Economic Community has deviated from it’s remit. Creating a European army, harmonising tax rates, harmonising it’s resources etc. It seems the Irish sovereignty is losing its own control. Directive after directive. Turf cutting now illegal and importation of 4k tonnes of peat from outside of our country.
    The inception of the European Economic Community was great and the UK appears to be taking it back to first principles.
    Their difficulty now will likely take a lot of time to resolve but look how long it took the European Economic Community to develop.

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    Mute Himalaya Joe
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    Oct 17th 2021, 12:26 PM

    @Jim: I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but Animal Farm is about communism and how humans abuse such systems to create the antithesis of that ideology. The EU has never been accused of being a communist group of states, in fact the very opposite. It is ever increasing its neoliberal tendencies as times passes. So perhaps a rethink of your comparison would be wise.

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    Mute Jim
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    Oct 17th 2021, 12:36 PM

    @Himalaya Joe: I agree with you totally. But there are undertones of exploitation in the mechanisms of of the EU, voting rights, loss of huge parts of what makes up the very core of Ireland. Fisheries, peat industry, over forested lands etc…

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    Mute Richard Cronin
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    Oct 17th 2021, 12:53 PM

    @Himalaya Joe: TBH this is not a struggle between left versus right it’s between liberty & freedom versus authoritarianism & control. I’m not a fan of the EU because what it has become, take the EU commission it is a bureaucracy manned by incompetent failed politicians. This quest by some to bring about a federalized Europe by no matter what means is doomed to fail as a majority of people don’t want it. If the EU was scrapped & reverted back to a common market all these problems would just go away, a simple solution but 1 that will never be considered because ends the dream of a federalized Europe.

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    Mute James
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:10 AM

    The polish people will not leave the eu,they do not want to be reminded how hard they had it before joining the eu.
    It seems it’s the polish government themselves that are spitting their dummy out and throwing a tantrum.

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    Mute Derek Moran
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:39 AM

    @James: these authoritarian leaders get hamstrung by EU laws, and rightly so They are the only ones that want out. The Polish people themselves want to stay.

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    Mute Cowboy Ted
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:07 AM

    @James:
    In reality the Polish Government is trying to not allow EU citizens access to EU justice…
    I always thought the ECJ was very important in Ireland’s transition from 70s to 00s… it effectively told our Government and our Courts that we were not only Irish but also EU Citizens…

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    Mute Hugo Bugo
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:23 AM

    We will withhold 24 billion euro if you don’t have a rethink about your beliefs, lol, it’s some world we live in

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    Mute Derek Moran
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:40 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: only the leaders are thinking of leaving for their own agenda. The people want to stay.

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    Mute john
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:42 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: they are withholding if they break the law. If they don’t like the law, leave.

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    Mute Benny McHale
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:55 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: Or, we will continue to give you 24 billion euro if you stop being homophobic like most civilized nations.

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    Mute SmallbutMighty
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    Oct 17th 2021, 11:21 AM

    @Hugo Bugo: you think civil rights is a “belief” ?

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    Mute Alan Campbell
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:07 AM

    Nothing lasts forever, even the Roman empire crumbled. In 20 years time schoochool kids will be reading the history of it

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    Mute Marie Broomfield
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:48 AM

    @Alan Campbell: or rather progress is a slow process but it will eventually come!

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    Mute Bill Spill
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    Oct 17th 2021, 12:40 PM

    @Alan Campbell: Can school kids not read the history of the roman empire now?

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    Mute Phil Quinn
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:43 AM

    its not complicated. withold funds. any govt that loses out on 24bn would pay a very heavy price…..that said….firing judges i can understand, we could do with a bit of that here in suspended sentence land.

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    Mute crocodile
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:43 AM

    What a strange article seems The Journal likes this sort of one sided propaganda pieces. No debate, no attempt made at understand diffrent positions. The article simply assumes EU is always right and you cannot question it, almost like you could not question catholic church hirachy in ireland 100 years ago. What i get of this is two fingers, polish gov. Is evil, corrupt and needs to be get rid by all means. is this how Eu democracy, european nations should work?

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    Mute Rebecca BarrettNp
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:59 AM

    @crocodile: Sounds to me like you’re in favour of the Polish government removing civil rights from our fellow EU citizens and discriminating against minorities.

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    Mute SmallbutMighty
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    Oct 17th 2021, 11:40 AM

    @crocodile: so you’re in favour of Poland ignoring European law so they can removed civil rights from its citizens because of their sexual orientation. Funny every time I think the world has progressed we are reminded dinosaurs still exist.

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    Mute Gordon Larney
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    Oct 17th 2021, 1:06 PM

    @crocodile: debate about taking away people’s civil rights because of their sexuality??? Are you for real? Did you even think before you started typing? There is no debating it,, never again should people with such revolting “beliefs” be allowed to pass laws.

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    Mute crocodile
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    Oct 17th 2021, 3:33 PM

    @Rebecca BarrettNp: and what is your point exactly in branding me supporter of Pis goverment? What civil rights and that of minorities they have actually removed?

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    Mute Jimmy Jones
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:19 AM

    They should be ejected from EU

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    Mute Richard Cronin
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    Oct 17th 2021, 1:47 PM

    @Jimmy Jones: couldn’t agree more, the fewer countries in the EU the better

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    Mute RZ
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    Oct 19th 2021, 9:58 AM

    @Jimmy Jones: The people and the government hold entirely different positions. Whom do you eject?

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    Mute Gregory Pym
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    Oct 17th 2021, 12:28 PM

    Its amazing the number of deluded people. I for one remember Ireland prior to joining the EU. We were backward and our young left in hundreds of thousands to find a life abroad. They say eaten bread is soon forgotten. Would I like to go back to a church ruled nation on the periphery of Europe ,of course not. The Benefits of the EU to Ireland are manifest and we are now one of the wealthiest nations on earth with full employment for anyone willing to look for a job. The EU should take a hardline on the UK and Poland. Stop the cherry picking, your in or your out.

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    Mute jkcdub
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    Oct 17th 2021, 7:58 PM

    @Gregory Pym: I am totally with you, I remember those days as well. Pre EU , Ireland was miserable, poor and had little notion of equal rights.

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    Mute Gary Heslin
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:15 AM

    Maybe time for Poland to face back to motherland Russia .. to be subjugated again..

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    Mute Francis Sally
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    Oct 17th 2021, 1:27 PM

    @Gary Heslin: but on the other hand, the EU is not a country and its leaders are not elected by its citizens but can dictate policy and force country’s into compliance. The EU isn’t perfect either

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    Mute Rebecca BarrettNp
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    Oct 17th 2021, 2:37 PM

    @Francis Sally: Citizens elect the MEPs who choose the Commissioners, it’s the exact same way as we vote for TDs and they choose the Taoiseach and Tánaiste.

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    Mute Francis Sally
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    Oct 17th 2021, 6:02 PM

    @Rebecca BarrettNp: but u still think the president of the EU should be elected by the citizens

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    Mute Derek Ryan
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    Oct 18th 2021, 7:30 PM

    @Rebecca BarrettNp: and can u tell me who makes up European law because its not the meps as you would think. Go have a read about that before having a go at someone’s comment for supporting Poland, then come back with the same comment after a bit of research. The EU is broken , Germany and France have almost enough votes because of population size to out vote pretty much all the other EU states on absolutely everything. Germany are the controllers of the EU, got there wish after ww2 just done it through politics. So what we just do what our masters tell us to do. What about the fascism going on accross the EU at the moment e.g. France

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    Mute Derek Ryan
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    Oct 18th 2021, 7:35 PM

    @Derek Ryan: France cannot even buy food without a vaccine passport. And this is the European Union you are defending

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    Mute RBUman1
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    Oct 17th 2021, 3:19 PM

    The EU is “crumbling and shaking” is because it is fundamentally undemocratic at its core and seeks to ride roughshod over the individual wishes of member “states”. Nothing wrong with that if the majority of us are happy to give up our sovereignty, as we seem to be.
    However, there will always be a strong minority who feel that nations should assert national independence. Asserting or striving for such independence is incompatible with EU membership.

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    Mute Rostyballs78
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:33 AM

    Not that I have an alternative but “polexit” just doesn’t work.

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:59 AM

    @Rostyballs78: Pole Vault?

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    Mute Gordon Larney
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    Oct 17th 2021, 10:53 AM

    @Rostyballs78: “poleaxed” ?

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    Mute Marie Broomfield
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:34 AM

    @Paul Shepherd: That’s the general feeling but their people wanted change and democracy started climbing out of the hole. The EU of course was right to extend it’s hand. People can be ebcouraged to be willing and enthusiastic allies of the EU !

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    Mute john
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    Oct 17th 2021, 9:40 AM

    Great article Gráinne

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    Mute Genera L Consensus
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    Oct 17th 2021, 8:09 PM

    Who will do all our jobs?

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    Mute john smith iv
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    Oct 18th 2021, 1:39 AM

    The Irish constitution also trumps EU law except where we have added amendments to the constitution. Ireland is like a zealous convert to the church of woke. If the EU (or previously the EEC) had demanded of us what is now being demanded of Poland we would have left years ago, before our recent conversion to said church. Maybe the EU should stick to the actual severe problems affecting Europe rather than these divisions.

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    Mute ed w
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    Oct 17th 2021, 1:41 PM

    as far as I see it the government want to be kicked out of the eu that way all the vmblame goes on the eu

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    Mute Derek Ryan
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    Oct 18th 2021, 7:13 PM

    I agree with Poland 100% they have elected officials, same here we elected this plonkers ruining the great land.The EU is far to reaching with its laws. We are not the USA and a federal EU will not work because we are many nations with many traditions and values. These far left extremists running the EU are all lunatics. Now making out like right wing is a bad thing, it’s a point of view. I’m centre right and proud to be just like Poland

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    Mute Darren Anthony Corr
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    Oct 17th 2021, 5:43 PM

    I think if it did reach the stage where Poland exits the EU, I don’t think it would be as hard an exit as the UK.
    I think worst case scenario, Poland would remain in the single market and customs Union. No way would they go the hard way, especially when they are surrounded by the EU on all sides.
    The regular Polish population also want to remain.

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