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Updated 3.55pm
THE HSE’S HR director has said that a meeting will take place with representatives from the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO) tomorrow morning, after fears were raised that junior doctors would be denied overtime pay.
In a statement, the IMO said that senior management had sent a memo to all consultants and interns in the hospital telling them that interns will not be paid for work done before 8am or after 5pm.
This is despite the fact that these workers “are routinely expected to work outside these hours and cannot simply leave a ward or a patient when the clock strikes 5pm,” the IMO said.
The HSE, however, in a series of tweets through its @HSE_HR account sought to clarify the position to those raising concerns about the matter last night.
It said that the perception that overtime pay would be denied to interns was a “matter of how the memo was interpreted”.
It also said: “All non-consultant hospital doctors [NCHD]‘s receive a salary based on their contract including overtime when it is incurred and rostered. Where unrostered overtime is incurred this requires authorisation by the designated Consultant and when this occurs the payment will be made.”
HSE HR / TwitterAll NCHD’s receive a salary based on their contract including overtime when it is incurred and rostered. Where unrostered overtime is incurred this requires authorisation by the designated Consultant and when this occurs the payment will be made
— HSE HR (@HSE_HR) January 6, 2018
In further tweets, the HR director for the HSE Rosarii Mannion said that “no staff member will be asked to work overtime without pay”.
She also said, however, that a number of “housekeeping” issues would be addressed with the IMO at tomorrow’s meeting.
In a copy of the memo seen by TheJournal.ie, addressed to interns, it says that “medical interns should not be commencing work before 8am or working beyond 5pm (unless on extended day) – no payment will be made for working before 8am or after 5pm”.
Neurosurgeon John Duddy, however, an ex-president of the IMO, said that there was one only one way of interpreting memo and tweeted these lines from it.
John Duddy / TwitterTo me, there is only one way to interpret these two lines from the memo. No ambiguity there. pic.twitter.com/kiH7KTyLdD
— John Duddy (@DrJohnDuddy) January 6, 2018
Copies of the memo are being shared elsewhere on social media.
In the midst of an overcrowding crisis in Irish hospitals, IMO Vice President Dr Peader Gilligan said that consultants were fully behind junior doctors on the matter.
He said: “This is the real world on a busy hospital ward when interns and other NCHDs are routinely expected to complete whatever tasks they are doing whether their formal hours are ending or not.
The reason we have overtime is because we need to provide care for patients and we do not have enough doctors in the system to deliver that care.
It is understood the IMO will be demanding a reversal of this position at tomorrow’s meeting.
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Under no circumstances will I work till 67… My contract says I have to retire at 65 and I’m already considering early retirement at 62. I love my job but I love myself and my kids and grandkids much more so 5 more years and my working history will be over. Life is short, my husband passed away from cancer in August and his death made me think what we are and what my purpose in life is. To work till I drop? No, thanks…
@Irena Cepaitiene: Very sorry to hear about your husband. The fact of the matter is life expectancy is around ~80 yo. The Government want you to work 49 years and pay taxes but only get 13 years of benefit from those 49. Meanwhile, TDs and MEPs who retire early can cream obscene tax free pensions from much earlier in their lives. We really are fools for putting up with these bhoyos.
@Irena Cepaitiene: Don’t worry. When Mary Lou gets in she’ll wave her magic wand and we’ll all be able to retire at 60.
@Irena Cepaitiene: To be charged the USC on your pension is indecent to the core. Temporary tax my b###ox.
@lelookcoco: or we can stay the way we are and eventually work until 75 before any state pension kicks in… it’s strange we can’t make the state pension work but during a pandemic they can pull billions out of their arses
@lelookcoco:
Yes but in NI supported by SF in Stormont the penson age will be 67 in 2028
Political pension should be the same
My husband is 69 years old and still working full time. He likes his job but also has to work because we still have a mortgage to pay ( thankfully finished within the next year) and our youngest still in college, with all the expense that entails.
He pays almost as much in tax as he gets in his pension because his wages and his pension is lumped together and he’s taxed on the whole lot!
He’s worked since he was 13 and paid his taxes and PRSI all his life and now he’s being taxed on his pension!
NOT FAIR!
@Mary Walshe: this is the Ffg cartel that are causing this but watch they will try put the blame on SF
@Marty Lawless: cop on with your silky comment
@Mary Walshe: Of course it is, its income. Why does this surprise anyone? Fair dues to him for continuing to earn, but if you incur property debt and /or have children a little later in life (father at 47/48?), its nobody else responsibility to pay for those, or to bear your lawful proportion of taxes.
@Mary Walshe: at least he hasn’t paid prsi since he was 66.
@Eoin Roche:
We have no problem with paying taxes on his earnings but he should not be taxed on his pension!
@Ciaran O’Mara: According to the Irish Independent today the Government want to reintroduce the payment of PRSI for pensioners as follows:
‘More than 350,000 pensioners could be hit with PRSI for the first time under controversial new proposals.
The Pensions Commission wants to remove a special exemption that allows people aged over 66 to avoid Pay Related Social Insurance (PRSI) on their non-state income’
It is hard enough trying to survive on a pension without another 4% being taken in tax.
Time for a General Election.
@Thomas O’Connor: If you think this Government is to to blame for moving back the pension age, you’re wrong. If you think a Sinn Féin (or any) led Government will be able to avoid moving back the pension age in the medium term, you’re also wrong.
If you don’t realise that the longer it takes to move back the pension age, the more costly and impactful it will be, you’d also be wrong.
In 1960, life expectancy in this Country was just under 70 years. In other words, work till 65, get a few good years and die gracefully for the next pensioners coming behind you. Now, in 2021, life expectancy is 82.5 years. We are creeping closer to a situation of having to fund State pensions for 20 years of post work life, all while less young people are entering the workforce to replace them.
@Eoin Roche: you have to be a fg stooge or something because it is staggering that someone would come comment online defending what will be the highest age threshold for pensions in Europe by 2030
@Brian Burns: I’m the ultimate floating voter Brian, I’m just a numbers guy and a realist and quick enough you’ll realise that this isn’t an FG-only issue. Far from it. And it’ll be worse for those European countries that can’t avoid demographic shift, which is already well advanced by the way, if they leave it late to make an inevitable and unavoidable policy change. Those of us now 30 or 40, will work till we’re 70 and live till we’re 90 or more. The sooner we accept that fact, the more blissful life will be.
So the people recommending the age increase more than likely were/are office based probably Monday to Friday, On good plated pensions.
So much for the we all in this together I’m sure it be ok as an office worker maybe staying on working after 65, What about the people who work shifts or do heavy manual work ?
Should be applied to the civil servants and politicians that came up with this policy also to make it fair on everyone.
Most of us play prsi, paye all our working lives. Shouldn’t we or our families be guaranteed a percentage of that back at retirement?. That would allow us to manage or contributions ourselves no matter how long we live. Also went is the temporary USC being removed?. Its been here since 2012. How temporary is temporary?. I would think it is boardering on illegal tax at this point.
Crazy, especially in certain sectors, Can hardly expect someone over the age of 65 to be working like a 20 year old in a warehouse, not everyone will have an easy pen pushing TD job
So a former taoiseach who died not too long ago close to a century in age received millions in pension payments. But the artisans of this country must keep working to receive a very modest payment from the Lords who rule us.
We want to make it that the young workers of today enjoy the benefits that the people of today will….ah no!, for one you can get the pension at 65-66 today, but in 10-20 years time you’ll be expected to work till your nearly 70 if not 70 by then, so they are talking b@ll#k again. Insert emoji of head exploding here…
Worked from age 13, 60 now in bad health like many people of my generation we didn’t go to college take a year off to find ourselves and finally do a full days work in our mid or late twenty’s. I will be waiting for the next election to vote for sf.
@Paddy O’Neill:
Bitter. I’m guessing that you regret not doing more with your youth.
What do the changes to the pension age have to do with the choices of a different generation of young people anyway.
@White Chapel: we had no choice, work or starve like most people of my generation we didn’t have a silver spoon. The country was bankrupt except for the corrupt few.
I’m delighted for the young people who have a life as opposed to the hundreds of thousands who didn’t but that doesn’t change the fact that people of my generation Are burnt out and do deserve to retire at 65. I can only presume you are to young or were lucky enough not to have to work through your youth, best of luck to you but don’t mock the generations who had to live hand to mouth.
@Paddy O’Neill:
You made several big generalised statements there Paddy and most of them don’t reflect the truth.
You seem to think there is no poverty or hardship today and that eveyone now has the silver spoon, especially the young?
I hope all those privileged students who went to the food bank at UCC during the week brought their silver spoons with them..
What about all those who grew up in the 80s and 90s and lost everything except their debts in the recession, they had it easy too did they?
Its not that long ago that Ireland was a third world country, so don’t worry plenty of us remember it.
Also, don’t forget that all these useless young people you mentioned will be the ones working longer and paying more for the high cost of existing pensions. Pensions with conditions that they will likely never enjoy in old age themselves, particularly the civil and public service pensions for those retiring from now until 2036.
I’m not mocking anyone, maybe its you who is mocking the Irish youth…
Retirement age will probably be 75 by time I retire. Will public servants still be able to retire after 35 years service? Average life expectancy for a male in Ireland is 79. Work 40+ years of your life to enjoy 10 years of retirement. That sounds so good
@Alan Kenny: It also seems hugely unfair that people who began working in their teens are now under pressure to work for longer again. That’s not balanced at all. Work takes a toll on people. This is unjust.
remember folks try not to fall into your retirement cake when they finally release you from work.
@Mícheál: You might be able to apply for a zimmer-frame from the HSE to stop you falling over into the cake, but do apply when you’re 62 cause apparently there will be a 5 year waiting list for approval – if you’re lucky to be approved that is.
Personally, I’d love to work until I’m ready to go 6 feet under. Why? I’ll be dependant on state pension. Don’t earn enough to top it up with a private pension. However, as my contract says retire at 65, I guess on my 65th birthday I’ll be strolling down to social welfare to sign on for job seekers. Might even do a course, training, CE scheme… Lord God!
What the politicians don’t tell you is that when it comes to the dept of welfare the vast majority of the money they pay out is pensions for all the ex politicians and civil servants ect.
The people who are making these rules up will all be retired by 60. None of this will affect them. They simply don’t care.
Oh what a great idea… Why not just
have no pension and make everyone
work until they die…. oh wait… Be
better if there was someone behind
the old man or woman with a whip
just in case they started to slow
down or something. There are too
many old people anyway……
Pensions get paid from current tax and in future the number of workers will be far less than the number of retired. Either raise pension age, people start their own private pension or the government will have to get loans to pay pensions. Or we force everyone from a young age to contribute to their future pension . ..which I think is a no brainer to do
@geraldine cremin: have you a source for the future numbers working will be less than those retired? Given a) we have a growing population and b) with nearly 1 in 4 is waiting on a medical consultantion as well as alot of diagnosis going under the radar due to covid, the likihood alot of people will die due to an undiagnosed illness.
@James Reardon: we have one of youngest population age demographics in the EU. Birth rates are declining. We only need to look at Germany who’s average age is nearly 50 to see what is happening and will happen to us in 20 years.
@geraldine cremin:
Mindset change & mandatory pension contributions from day one for all those who enter the workforce. They put men on the moon 50+ years ago. How f’ing hard is it to encourage & legislate for such an important requirement..?
“not sustainable” thanks to Endas and Michaels dipping into the states pension pot for their famous FIVE POINT PLAN of jobs bridge, internship and work placement plans!
Would love to know the ratio of jobs created to the tens of millions used from the pot.
Whatever about office workers and white collar or retail, how can people with hard physical work, work till their late 60s. Absolute disgrace. And by the way, I don’t think office,white collar or retail should be treated different. But this government will be putting some people in an early grave.
They’ll get it in .. one way or another.
@Pádraigín O’Sirideáin: that’s when feet have to mobilise on the streets. 68 years of age for a state pension while alot of them millionaires in the dail will have multiple pensions as well as cushy roles on boards the lobbyists give them for a job well done over the years. Joke shop.
How generous, how kind.
Sinn Feint will be canvassing for 65 next election what are FFFG going to do.
@Thomas Linehan: once SF can show where the money will come from and not just sound bites
@Thomas Linehan:
Ask them why come in 028 u will have to be 68 to get the penson in NI which SF supported back in 012
@Thomas Linehan: Not lie about the inevitable, preferably.
We need to campaign against this. Those shysters will have us working into our graves.
Does that include the politicians judges and civil servant’s?????????
I honestly don’t think that I have another 17 yrs of work left in me. Years of forklift driving has seen to my shoulder, pulling pallets and loading/unloading trucks has seen to my back. I still work on average a 55hour week. Easy for those in the political sphere to dictate this , they know that they won’t suffer the physical hardship of hard graft, or the financial hardship of being on the dole when you are too broke up to carry on working
Public servants, yeah right.
Once we strike a massive reserve of oil and gas off the west coast this will all be just a bad dream….
Basically they are hoping you’ll drop dead early so they won’t have to pay you any pension while they live on the gravy train.
Slaves thats what they want
67 – new retirement age … wrong answer!
It is daft … we should be progressing no regressing.
State pensions should be based on need (Welfare) where your private pension failed.
No state pension should be paid to anyone who has a private pension above the living wage. With the savings then everybody can retire at 60 …
@Neuville-Kepler62F:
Don’t think so. I have a private pension & have paid PRSI since 1991. And my final pension level is a combination of the private fund and the state pension.
@Kevin: .. you would say that!
PRSI is Pay Related Social Insurance … it’s not a pension fund. There is no fund. Your PRSI goes to pay current unemployment and other welfare supports.
PRSI is an insurance policy in case you lose your job and need welfare unemployment income or your pension fails and you need a living income when you retire.
You don’t get your house insurance back unless your house burns down … Some adult needs to take charge of this increasing retirement age farce!
… 67yrs before you can retire … wrong answer Leo and Mick
… where are the adults?
Why??
And those who retired at 18 to sponge of the state all their lifes to live on benefits will get paid the whole system is seriously wrong ,and the the government is seriously blind to system they have created for these people , , and ordinary working people expected to work to the grave , SERIOUSLY
i have retired last week
might be on the dole for a few years after my stamps run out
Over my dead body.
All that happens is you get stuck on Job Seeker’s Allowance until the pension kicks in.
You don’t get the extra benefits that comes with the Pension, but who needs a Bus Pass when there are no buses?
That and being unable to get any job, even minimum wage because you are obviously “brain dead”, over qualified, too expensive, or no prior experience….
I wonder what the jobs market will be like in 2031, I would think it will be a full transformation due to automation , climate change, demographics etc. Will there be any labour intensive work at all, probably no state pension either maybe a universal income payment.
Just to be clear this is only relevant to the private sector. It does not apply to the public sector/ civil service who make the rules they can retire when their 40 years are done on a defined benefit pension meaning they get two thirds of their final salary, plus other benefits the private sector could only dream about. All paid from our taxes.
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