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THERE IS A “serious gap” in human rights compliance in a number of areas in An Garda Síochána’a policy and practice, the Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL) has said.
A report launched today criticises a number of areas including the policing of protests, investigation of hate crime, stop-and-search practices, State security, and the treatment of people in Garda detention.
The report was conducted by Alyson Kilpatrick, a former human rights advisor to the Policing Board of Northern Ireland.
Speaking about the research, Liam Herrick, Director of the ICCL, said An Garda Síochána has “never fully embraced human rights standards and values”.
“This was evidenced, yet again, by serious concerns arising from the Garda operation on Tuesday night at an eviction on Frederick St (in Dublin city).”
Gardaí were criticised for covering their faces at the eviction, a move Garda Commissioner Drew Harris said was “not correct”.
Garda reform
Herrick said the report “makes the compelling argument that taking human rights seriously at all levels of Irish policing will have profound benefits for gardaí and for the communities they serve”.
He noted that “a comprehensive Garda reform process” will arise from the imminent publication of the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland.
He said the ICCL report “provides a blueprint for how to deliver radical overhaul of Irish policing around human rights principles, drawing on the experience of the transformation of policing culture and practice in Northern Ireland”.
While of course the gardaí do not have all of the problems that have historically beset policing in Northern Ireland, there are many practical lessons we can learn from the experience there.
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In the report, Kilpatrick highlights particular problems with the oversight and accountability mechanisms of State security, recommending that An Garda Síochána should develop and publish written policy on all covert activity.
Where they cannot be published for security reasons, Kilpatrick recommends that these policies be made accessible to a human rights legal expert in the Policing Authority.
Use of force
The report also details problems with Garda use of force. It notes that gardaí are likely to use pepper spray at a higher rate than the Metropolitan Police or the PSNI, but that this is difficult to tell given the lack of statistics available.
Kilpatrick recommends recording all circumstances of deployments of weapons or use of force, together with an explanation of the circumstances, location of use, outcome and the identity of the garda(í) involved. She further recommends sharing this information with the Policing Authority and publishing all related statistics.
If implemented correctly, a rights-based approach will not only protect the people that the gardaí come into contact with, but it will protect gardaí themselves by positively transforming policy, practice and philosophy.
“It also provides a roadmap for An Garda Síochána to fulfill their legal obligations, and their own mission statement, and become a rights-compliant police force which keeps the best interests of all the people it comes into contact with, including gardaí themselves, at heart,” Kilpatrick said.
Code of Ethics
John Twomey, Deputy Commissioner of Policing and Security, said An Garda Síochána “will study the recommendations from the ICCL”, adding: “Any ideas on how An Garda Síochána can strengthen its delivery of a human rights-based policing and security service are always welcome.
Respecting and protecting the human rights of all individuals we interact with is one of the three key policing principles that guide how we deliver our service to the public.
Twomey said that since his recent appointment as Garda Commissioner, Harris publicly stated the importance of An Garda Síochána “delivering an ethical policing and security service with a focus on protecting the vulnerable”.
“For example, in his recent address to Garda recruits, Commissioner Harris said that maintaining and building trust in An Garda Síochána was dependent on Garda members, Garda staff and Garda reserves treating everyone they meet with respect, dignity and empathy.”
Twomey added that all Garda members and staff are in the process of being trained in the Code of Ethics. More than 10,000 personnel have been trained to date.
A Strategic Human Rights Advisory Committee is also being re-established, with the membership proposed to expand to include external experts in this area.
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“I will not introduce legislation that potentially exposes the country to very severe penalties and fines from the European Commission – I won’t do that,” Coveney told reporters.
If you go against the will of the people (the ones that put you into that position) and refuse to do what they wish perhaps you can step out of the way and give the position to somebody who will represent their wishes?
The VRT is also illegal according to the EU but you have no problems with that or paying penalties on it, do you?
@George Vladisavljevic: much like Noirin for the guards, Kenny following McCabe, they are refusing to entertain even blatant truths and IW depending on what happens ought to be the final nail in the coffin. No one should be paying that quango, whatever about water and its future conservation. Shambles from the get go, fitting given its Ireland.
Now that we have established that water can be paid from ‘General Taxation’ when will we follow suit with electricity and gas because they are a great burden on my family too.
Jammin the money is gone, we are not getting it back. Should we continue to waste more time on it which inevitably leads to wasting more money? Make a bloody decision and stick to it. The charges are obviously gone now but we need to sort out where the responsibility for the running of the water network is going to lie.
@John:
We do have electricity and gas allowances (paid from general taxation) to ensure families with limited means have a minimum standard of living. Are you proposing we expand the scheme?
I’m just trying to establish where the provision of essential services and their payment falls.
If water is free to everyone regardless of usage and paid out of general taxation then why not Electricity and Gas?
Allowances are not the same as free so why the difference? Make everything free to the user and let the taxpayer pick up the tab or am I missing something in what the Water-Charge protesters are saying?
@John:
Water was never free. We’ve always paid for our water treatment and waste.
And we don’t care what you’re trying to establish. Your banker tax plans have been decisively un-established by a mass boycott. Deal with it Homer.
@Dusty Mooney:
Wally you have failed to answer the question I posed, so I’ll ask it again, why do you see a difference between the payment methods of one essential service ie. water and others such as gas and electricity and enough of the bluster and bulls***, just answer.
@John: Water is not free to everyone regardless of usage – private business pay for the service but we do ensure every citizen of the state has access to water
By having our water services included in general taxation we ensure the citizens of the state of Ireland do not have to endure water poverty while also ensuring that those who earn the most pay the most. This means our pensioners, sick people, disabled people and those least able to provide for them self do not have to endure water poverty
Either way the nation has been quite clear on this point through the electorate box -
Without a doubt John you are missing a lot of what people are saying but maybe that is because you choose to only hear what you want to hear….
@John:
I’m not here to answer your questions mouthpiece :) I’m explaining the new political reality which you don’t seem to have grasped yet like your poster boy Simon.. We’re not asking for your permission. Your banker tax is dead.
@brian boru:
As with Wally and others you have not addressed the question I have asked but that is all right because I know you do not have a sensible answer.
For the record I do not care whether water is paid by the taxpayer or by the user-pays principle, I am just trying to establish why WATER is different to GAS & ELECTRICITY in your view as ALL are ESSENTIAL.
By your answer you are happy for people to gave heat and light poverty as long as there is no water poverty but hey if that’s how you feel.
@Dusty Mooney:
Bluster bluster bluster, you should be a politician, actually the way you avoid answering questions you should be in FG.
Again it’s NOT my banker tax as I don’t care cause either way I pay, I’m just curious as to the double standards of the muppets blindly following the “It’s a banker tax” or “water is free” mantra.
@Jammin. ‘To be spent’. Exactly. And while we drag on with this bullshit more and more is spent. Would it not be better to sort it now once and for all.
@jane: Absolutely, and it is solely FF/FG to blame for not killing this last March when the vast majority of TDs elected had abolising water charges and irish water as part of their manifesto. However, our infrastructure does need the investment and there is 200 million budgeted for meters that there is now no reasonable excuse to spend.
@John: Why stop at gas and electricity why not include telecoms, internet , food and clothing? Water is different that is why it is run by the state as opposed to private interests.
The reason there is no sensible answer to your question is simply it is not a sensible question.
There are a thousand reasons why water falls under general taxation and under the control of the state and those elected to serve but only one reason it moves to a private entity and that is greed. Either way the nation has been quite clear why water services are paid by general taxation and not fall under the control of private business –
This is a political issue and FF were quite clear on the mandate they ran on
“By your answer you are happy for people to gave heat and light poverty as long as there is no water poverty but hey if that’s how you feel.”
Nope. There should be no energy poverty either. We have all of the resources we need to provide everyone with adequate heat and light. Poverty is an ideological choice of capitalism as it enriches the elite at the expense of the many.
@Reg: Mortgage contracts as used by Irish banks are illegal and contravene EU legislation on consumer rights.
FG/FF like to cherry pick what suits the agenda best.
@brian boru:
“Why stop at gas and electricity why not include telecoms, internet , food and clothing? ”
You said it right there, why is water different to electricity. I would think that electricity is not a luxury but necessity yet people are ok with it being metered and restricted but are not ok with water being metered.
I think that if they tried bringing in metering for electricity and gas now as opposed to it always being so then there would be protests so in reality it is just change that the water protestors are against rather than water charging itself.
@jane: Untill metering is stopped and the draconian legislation that sees house sellers having to pay the water tax before they can sell the house is rescinded this fight is far from over.
This commission is no more than a smoke screen to fool people into thing the water charges and privatisation agenda is over. It’s not.
People have to vigilant, this fight is far from over.
John. I think most people are happy to pay their way in life, most people understand that the water network is in bits and needs funding. The old system where it was looked after by the CoCos was a disaster. At the end of the day the budget for the CoCo has to be approved by the councillors and water was continually underfunded cause it didn’t get lads re-elected. Also there is little or no flexibility with local authority staff, asking for the smallest change will have the unions backs up immediately.
However, when Tierney went on the radio and spoke about the amount of money being spent on Consultants and didn’t bat an eyelid and then that big oaf Hogan told us all the way it was going to be without any consultation, people got upset. Then you had the likes of Paul Murphy waiting in the long grass, waiting for something to latch onto to make him relevant and he grabbed it with both hands and made hay while the sun shone.
@jane:
At last a sensible answer, thank you.
The problem was always going to be how payment was collected rather than the paying itself.
The water service is 99% invisible because it is underground hence the county councillors didn’t care about it as much as potholes but then again if you start with the premise that all politicians of every hue are sleveens then you understand how the water system is in dire straits.
@jane: There was plenty funding for the water network from water charges through the 1997 legislation. That this funding wasn’t used and the network allowed to collapse was deliberate.
County managers and officials got their reward with cushy positions in IW.
Vieola, a private company, the Luas owners, has been given 20yr contracts to fix the water infrastructure, so that bypasses any CoCo input, and privatises maintenance.
@jane:
“Then you had the likes of Paul Murphy waiting in the long grass, waiting for something to latch onto to make him relevant and he grabbed it with both hands and made hay while the sun shone.”
Are you claiming that Paul Murphy somehow hoodwinked hundreds of thousands of people to boycott the water charge (banker tax)?
@John: easy, humankind existed for years without gas or electricity, water????
whats that john, penny dropped yet?
water is already paid for, ask the gov accountants
This isn’t a personal victory for Paul Murphy or the AAA-PBP. The defeat of the state’s water charges (banker tax) plans is testament to the power of the organized working class and Murphy would be the first to acknowledge this.
@Dusty Mooney: while I don’t agree with your long answers, you my friend along with others have been a beacon of sense while others have lost the head and sported short lived memories
thank you billy/dusty.
it think they call it “a public service” long before politicians began giving each others medals for it.
@Reg: I’m off on one of my regular visits to family in the UK where they pay a standing water charge of £180 per year to Essex Water on top of a household charge of £1500 household charge,they don’t like it but if they don’t pay they are prosecuted and fined or worse,just as in every other service the user pay applys,just don’t expect your next door neighbour to foot your the bill.as well.
Dave it’s not just veolia, there are several water companies winning DBO contracts. That had been the case ever before IW though. There’s nothing wrong with using the expertise of a private company as long as that company is held accountable for their work.
@John: That’s your opinion John and you are welcome to it.
Thankfully idiots like you are not in the majority in this country otherwise it would be a nasty country to live in.
The privatization agenda that was to make some new billionaires has failed and the nations water supply is safe from idiots like yourself that look to make a quick buck from the sale of the nations resources.
@jane:
Nonsense. He’s far more relevant than most TDs. And he was elected in Dublin SW as he’s a relevant fighter for the working class campaigning on many issues from Scambridge to health, housing etc etc etc.
@B9xiRspG: Only the European Court of Justice can impose a fine on a member state for not complying with EU law. Ireland has been fined twice, both in relation to breaches of EU Environmental Law. Ireland has never been fined in relation to VRT
Sorry Wally but your 2% says differently. And that’s 2% while all this is keeping him relevant and in the news. What’ll he do if they scrap Irish Water?
@jane:
Sorry Jane but our 6 TDs have done more than any other group to put the government under intense pressure for their betrayal of the Irish people. And that’s really why you despise Murphy etc. We take it as a backhanded compliment :)
@John:
Think from a billing respect… Gas and Electricity have high variable costs while Water has relatively low variable costs… Also what is wrong with a law that sates ‘ Don’t waste water’…
Ireland doesn’t struggle for water, the rest of Europe generally does. We have 6 times more water per Captia than the UK, 8 times on Germany and 10 times Denmark… And our water is in mostly liquid form (not Ice)….
This whole idea was bad from the outset and any one knowing the costs of setting up and running a utility business would know that this overhead will et any possible savings and more…
He’s a political representative of the capitalist class and has been forced by a mass boycott to act against the interests of the elite he serves. It just hasn’t quite sunk in for Simon yet.
“Who exactly does he think he is” He is the Bilderbergs man in the room. So its either stand up tobhim or our kids will be dealing with water poverty as well as the other types of poverty they risk to pay for the sins of the 1%
What’s happening? Coveney doesn’t want a refund because he can claim it back in his unvouched politicians expense claims, but the rest of us austerity squeezed people will take a badly needed refund.
Interesting timing of this article. Simon fighting for leadership of FG and this shines poor light on him and where is Leo? Why wasn’t Leo asked for a statement on his view of Irish Water and all of this? TheJournal seem have to let Leo out of this discussion on purpose.
It was similar yesterday with the photos, Leo’s were all good images of him and Simon’s weren’t.
As much as I agree with AAA/PBP, stance on water charges, I still think if refunds are given back to those who did pay, that the €100 conservation grant should be deducted, regardless of what Murphy thinks, it’s €80M.not exactly small change to just write off
The ones that took the 100 euro and didnt pay are the worst. They complain about irish water, claim they were protesting, but still added to the cost of irish water to the taxpayer. They should have to repay the grant, no question.
I mean, choose a side, either pay or protest, but dont take the money and then decide to protest. Then youre just a greedy fecker.
@Buster VL:
Water was never free. This is quite simply another banker tax masquerading as a water charge. And it’s now dead in the water thanks to a mass boycott of the working class. Now accept your defeat and move on.
No problem defending Apple to the hilt. No problem awarding multi million euro contracts to their billionaire backer ala siteserv. No problem seeing Irish families thrown out on the street when vulture funds operate with impunity. No problem with massive waiting lists & record numbers on hospital trolleys as long as the European banks got sorted.
No problem destroying Maurice McCabes life. Coveney you are a bilderburg lackey – a stooge / bag man for the mega rich minority but you won’t be for much longer thank f**k.
@Setrakian: You can see Coveney and his master – Head of the Steering Committee at Bilderberg, Peter Sutherland – on YouTube going for a stroll together through the streets of Brussels.
The Sith Lord and his apprentice.
We already pay for water through other means of taxation, fact.
We pay Vehicle Registration Tax on all new/imported cars which is illegal under EU law.
Is Coveney not concerned about the potential severe penalties regarding this? Is he fcuk.
@Frank Cauldhame:
excise duty on new cars is illegal hence the government got around it by saying they were not taxing the car merely charging for registering it. It is a bit like we have no university fees but there is a registration fee of nearly €3000, or the new mobile phone data roaming can be bypassed by Irish companies with small print saying the core amount is 1gb away from home.
For every rule that is made there is an Irish person busy trying to get around it without breaking it so I have no doubt that no matter what the EU say if the Irish Government really want to then they can avoid any penalties.
@John: The usual bobbleheads were on FGFM this morning toeing the government line and quoting the parts of the water framework directive that backs coveneys line.
They completely ignored the part referring to derogations for established practices, which in Ireland at the time the directive was written, was for water to be paid for through general taxation.
Keeping the gate open now with excessive water usage is the game now for future charges. FF will come up with a so called political farce of an agreement to con the people again. Make it look like opposition, but keep the charges regime on a lifeline. This is not what the people want and should not accept again… Times up, vote out these people and fix this failing satellite of Europe..
Sure Simon and fg. You will fight the EU tooth and nail so apple don’t pay €13 billion plus owed.. no bother at all to you.
When it comes to the people and water , you just want to bend over backwards and kneel in front of the EU ..
Shows your priorities and it isn’t the people that pay you..
@james r: That’s some interest rate you’re charging, gone from 13 billion to 19 billion, at this rate give them a year or two and we can clear our national debt :)
@B9xiRspG:
€19 billion is correct. That’s the back taxes and interest owed after a couple of decades of tax dodging as outlined in this Irish Times article:
Use that 19 billion? And watch Apple leave Cork. That 19 billion will be needed to prop up an entire city, between employees wages, catering and cleaning companies going under, taxi firms taking massive hits,etc. Nevermind the shops near the Holyhill site being hit by a massive drop in customers every morning on the way to work. I don’t think you’ve thought this through tbh.
@JJ O Riordan:
Grand. We’ve clarified that you believe the corporations should break the law with impunity while ordinary people will face the full force of the same law.
€19 billion would employ 5000 people on a €100k a year for 38 years. Now do you imagine Apple are going to contribute anything like that figure to the Irish economy before they pull out to find another sweetheart tax deal elsewhere?
The answer of course in no. Let the parasites pay their taxes.
If Coveney is willing to go against the recommendation of the committee, what’s to stop him rejecting a plebiscite in relation to water ownership. The man cannot be trusted.
@JJ O Riordan: More water is being applied to the Grace scandal. So Noonan doesn’t do the deserved jail time.
Where is the FG fraperoom on this article?
@JJ O Riordan: There are all sorts of terrorists and all sorts of terrorism. The terror wrought on families by banks with the collusion of the government, contravening EU law is a form of terrorism that has resulted in death through suicide.
Are you happy with that terrorism?
And you’re entitled to that because……. And trying to negate somebody’s point by suggesting that they’re a child is a tried and tested SF/IRA sympathiser technique. Playing the man, not the ball along with deflection plays a vital part in a shinners phrasebook.
I’d say a good idea, If you can’t install a swimming pool without a water meter. Might as well recycle them. Most of us don’t have the garden space for pools. Commercial businesses already pay enough tax. But that’s not the topic here.
More lies from fg, progressive taxation is acceptable for water charges under EU guidelines.gov breaks EU law on vehicle registration,tell us the difference Mr Covent as you pay fines every yr for breaking that law.
The proposal to pay for water by general taxation puts us at loggerheads with the EU.., so giving momentum to the anti-EU agenda of the AAA-PBP. You have to congratulate to the political strategists of this group and how SF and now FF have acquiesced…
They have ensured the politics of water means parties either honour legal commitments and lose political support or appease the AAA/PBP led anger and give life and energy to the growing anti-EU sentiment but gain popular support.
@Shane Bradley:
Anti E.U. sentiment is growing for a very good reason. The E.U. viciously protects the interest of capital at the expense of the majority working class.
You recall the Trichet letters threatening economic destruction on Ireland if the bondholders were burned in 2010?
@Dusty Mooney: The benefits have been and gone and the true agenda of the EU is clear via taxation privatisation and look CETA. EU is not Europe and its not in Europes interest .It hasnt been for too long already now who can blame the Brits. Member states have suffered harshly.
@ Dusty- agreed some EU decisions/actions have undermined its people (& its social/rights principles). Yes, peoples all over the EU are disillusioned and angry but… this is no reason for its destruction (as AAA/PBP want)… the EU properly functioning protects its people and has enabled us to enjoy unprecedented prosperity… we should be supporting politicians that want to reform and hold the EU to account against its own founding principles… Sadly, there are very few politicians displaying such leadership and instead people are flocking to the likes of Le Pen, UKIP (aka the current Tory Gov)…
@Shane Bradley:
I understand the pro Europe sentiment as the the E.U. once had a progressive veneer but at it’s core it was always about the consolidating the power of the European capitalist classes (specifically Germany and France) to enable them to compete against the other global powers.
The AAA is in favour of a unified socialist Europe but this cannot be achieved from within the E.U which is structurally designed to protect capital at the expense of the working class.
For example, the Euro currency union seizes economic power from the member states and places it in the hands of unelected bureaucrats in the ECB. It allows them to force a false and damaging budget constraint (austerity) on the national governments which sovereign currency issuers e.g. Britain do not face.
And in the event that a Left government is lifted to power which attempts to protect the welfare of the majority, it can easily be crushed using the monetary power of the ECB. This was seen clearly in the case of Syriza and Greece which is being systematically ransacked in the interests of the capitalist elite.
The next thing will see Simon threatening to turn the water down to a trickle. He’s jockeying for a leadership bid in the only way he knows how. Be a prat – it always works in Fine Gael…
The EU should have no right to impose their laws on Ireland because it’s what THEY want. Ireland is a sovereign nation and our water is our internal matter. When we have a referendum to enshrine our water as the people’s property what will the EU do about it. The EU says when water charges are introduced it must be offered for sale as a commodity. A referendum being passed would prevent this. This EU is really becoming a dictatorship and I won’t stand for that. Perhaps it’s time to consider leaving like the UK. Business and commerce is all very well but our sovereignty and our principles are far more important.
Water charges are being kicked into touch for the moment, but they’ll be back as soon as we get a settled For the moment. FF are the puppet masters at the moment until they can re-build their party. But I think were long past the overall majority government.
FF will pull the rug on the shaky Government when they see & don’t like the end of Enda’s reign as Taoiseach & the new leader of FG party. It’s like musical chairs, when FG loose the role of Government then FF will call for an Election, of course it’s not all a forgone conclusion that FF will get back into power. Just a mere suggestion of their own beliefs.
Dance soldiers of destiny. Dance :) It’s the mass boycott not the AAA that has FF and the rest of the political establishment beating a hasty retreat. But the AAA do understand the latent power of the working class and so called for the boycott to try and harness that force. It worked and that scares the establishment badly. A precedent has been set.
@Tony Stack: The joke is Murphy has paid his water bill when moving house.
And to this day I still can’t get an AAA member to explain to me how Paul Murphy managed to sells his 250,000 home and purchases a new house at 370,000 with an additional mortgage of 120,000 while claiming to only take 18K for salary. 3.5 times your salary is only 63K!!!!
@For Connolly: Yes I do – if any political claims to stand for something then I expect that to be true and take issue with it when it’s not, which is my right. I also have serious issues with Simon and Leo.
Paul Murphy is suppose to stand for the working class of Ireland. He proudly states that he doesn’t accept the over paid TD salary yet just looking at his house purchase that seems to be a lie on Paul’s part.
Do you deny that he paid his water charges?
Do you deny that if we are to believe him without question that the maths doesn’t add up on his mortgage?
Open your eyes and ask the questions and hold the politicians – all of them – to account for what they promise and for what they stand for.
@B9xiRspG: ” if any political claims to stand for something then I expect that to be true and take issue with it when it’s not, which is my right”
Do you have information that its not true?
For all you know his Aunt Flo could have fallen off her perch and left him a big wad of cash as an inheritance. The reason we don’t know is because its not really any of our business.
Jim you are not allowed to question AAA/PBP, Brendan Ogle or any organizations associated. They are all supposed to be allowed function without question.
Murphy hasn’t paid the water charge so stop lying please. And Murphy receives around €29k from his TD’s salary which is what the average industrial wage earner takes home after tax and that’s how he pays his mortgage, exactly the same as hundreds of thousands of others.
Now if you have any more questions you can email Murphy at his Dail account and let us know how you get on.
P.S. I love the music of bleating blueshirts like yourself. It sounds like victory :)
@Les Behan:
Murphy didn’t pay his property tax. The Irish state confiscated the LPT Home (banker tax) from him when he sold his apartment to move into the constituency where he was elected. The Revenue are deducting the home (banker tax) directly from thousands of peoples’ wages. Like Murphy, those people are not willingly handing over the LPT. It’s being forcibly taken from them by the state. You just don’t recognize integrity when you see it.
@Dusty Mooney: He gets 1,800 a month which is just under 22K, must have given himself a pay raise since the last time I read an article on his sainthood.
“he takes a ‘young worker’s wage’ of just over €1,800 a month after tax”
And you know that Murphy hasn’t got a joint mortgage with a partner? Have you been stalking him?
Now as I said. If you have any more questions you can email Murphy at his Dail account and let us know how you get on.
@Dusty Mooney: No but neither do I campaign to have terrorist sympathizers released from prison. Call me old fashioned but I’m not as into Sharia Law as you libertards are.
@Dusty Mooney: Yes he is a liar. Paul Murphy claimed in the beginning that Ibrahim Halawa was “just on a family holiday” in Egypt and was caught up in the protests, until the video’s of him and his sisters speaking at certain events surfaced. Then Paul Murphy’s claims changed to they went there with the purpose of protesting. Paul Murphy has ignored and banned any comments alluding to the lies he’s been peddling. Paul Murphy’s agenda is to shut down anybody that disagrees with him or points out his hypocrisy, he has proven this time and time again. He’s socialist but against free speech?
And you have the balls to call me “Useful pawn”? Hahahahahaha :-)
@Les Behan:
Ok. I see. He’s a “proven liar” in your fevered anti Muslim mind. And can you tell us exactly how Murphy can ban any comments? Are you not commenting here freely?
@Dusty Mooney: So that makes me “anti Muslim” does it? Responding with insults that is all you lot are good for. You know I speak the truth Wally but the truth is not part of the agenda, so you try and label me, because you are sad, irrelevant little man with no balls.
” And can you tell us exactly how Murphy can ban any comments? Are you not commenting here freely?”
Now I understand Wally/Dusty, that’s why you copy and paste so much because you are actually quiet stupid and can’t hold an original thought of your own in your head.
Watch the red thumb’s on this one! What Coveney said is right. It’s politically toxic to the government but if we don’t segregate our water from general taxation and categorise it as industrial, domestic and agricultural usage then the EU can apply fines on us. It’s written in EU treaty and enforceable with the EU courts of justice for non compliance. If people are looking for someone to blame, start with Maastricht, Rome and Lisbon treaties that we as a nation signed up for (I personally voted No for all exactly for this kind of reason)
@John Somers:
Britain has just exited the E.U and the old rules no longer apply.. If they want to stop their union disintegrating, the E.U. will accept the democratic decision of the Irish people to reject the water charges (banker tax).
@John Somers: ~”What Coveney said is right. It’s politically toxic to the government but if we don’t segregate our water from general taxation and categorise it as industrial, domestic and agricultural usage then the EU can apply fines on us.”
Incorrect. Scotland has no metering or domestic water charges and is not subject to any fines from the EU.
“It’s written in EU treaty ”
Link please
“If people are looking for someone to blame, start with Maastricht, Rome and Lisbon treaties ”
Personally, I’ll blame the people who threatened, bullied and blackmailed us if its all the same, ta.
@For Connolly, can’t find the link on EU website but it’s in the water framework directive article 9.4. As for Scotland, are they not covered by the poll tax which has water charges included? Either way, they won’t be concerned about charges now thanks to Brexit. Its a poor excuse to blame politicians and people of influence on the EU treaty referendums, at the end of the day it’s the individual’s choice in the poll booth. Some people were scared of No, some weren’t.
AAA Wally Mooney wants water bills to be paid for from “general taxation”. Translation: Only a third of Irish adults pay income tax. Wally Mooney is no doubt one of the remaing 2/3. Wally wants me to pay for his water. I pulled him up about that. His reply was “suck it up”.
32,000 people who signed the “Unfair 2-Tier Car Tax Petition” sick of paying penal car tax to subsidise the Motor Tax and Water Tax of others. …..
Motor Tax should be equalised and Water tax should be paid by general taxation or by metered usage with allowance for inability to pay BUT NOT by those who own pre-2008 cars and cant afford to purchase newer cars. €460 million from Motor Tax used each year to fund Irish Water …. farcical, daft, obscene, abusive, disrespectful, recipe for social and political collapse.
Bearing in mind that the F-Fail administration prior to the crash concealed the fact that they destroyed the tax base with tax cuts and incentives ad infinitim and ad nauseum with property ponzi scheme stamp duty receipts, and considering that the water system needs an additional €10 billion in addition to another €10 billion for climate change defences, plus the fact that there will not be enough tax payers to maintain our ageing population to the standard that they are accustomed to, water charges are now inevitable in addition to a much flatter tax system.
The tax system should take the form of a 15% flat income and corporation tax to fund a universal basic income to replace ALL unearned state payments and tax credits.
There should also be a 7.5% supperannuation levy which you can draw down when you retire in addition to your universal basic income.
Next comes a 12% public health insurance levy paid into a public health insurance trust which acts almost like a private insurer.
After that there should be a 2% universal no fault personal injuries insurance levy to cover personal injuries. This will render medical negligence, public liability and employee liability redundant as well as making car insurance optional where third party property damage is applied to fuel.
You should be entitled to opt out of these two insurance levies by buying approved private products.
On top of that, there should be a 2% nursing care insurance levy to fund home help and nursing home care. if you end up in a nursing home, this goes to the nursing home in addition to your basic income.
Water must be funded via a metering process or where a meter cannot be fitted to someone using the mains, the charge should be based on the size of the site.
The charge should be made up of a water charge, waste charge, climate change and flood risk insurance.
The climate change charge should fund the installation of rainwater harvesting systems while the flood risk insurance should fund the cost of flood damage, flood proofing or resettlement.
Road tax, commercial rates and LPT should be replaced with a simple land value property tax on every inch of land in the state with a 1,000 square feet allowance for those on low income.
The TV licence and PSO levy should be replaced with a community charge payable by EVERYONE regardless of employment status.
VRT should be abolished and VAT should be applied to fuel, food, water, labour, banking, clothing, communications, smartphones, computers and medicines at four or five percent. A rate of 15% should be applied to everything else.
A 3% levy should also be applied to online transactions to keep Irish people in Irish shops.
It’s baffling how Paul Murphy et al fought tooth and nail to oppose water charges, and then have the audacity to turn on the government when poor water infrastructure in Roscommon results in undrinkable water.
@Justin Ó Bradáin: And would the water in Roscommon still be undrinkable if part of the half billion wasted on meters had been used to fix the problem?
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