'You can disagree with those views but he wasn't guilty of terrorism': Ibrahim Halawa's former cellmate

@Atheos Euripides: did you reply back to mark Humphreys comment yet?

@Atheos Euripides:

Nice young man Just a supporter of Muslim Brotherhood a organization that denied rights & calls for violence against woman, Christians, non believers & gays.. who’s followers like to blow up Christians in Egypt… & yet to hear any member of the family or Ibrahim distance themselves from it. Hopefully one of the members of the media / fan club will ask them one day about that.

@Philip Brady: I responded to a similar question last night with an explanation, why do Alt-Right fascists think a random blogger is worth the waste of time?

@Liam flag: Zzzzzzz.

@TheJeff: Enjoy licking your wounds today.

@Atheos Euripides: Standing on the waters casting your bread
While the eyes of the idol with the iron head are glowing
Distant ships sailing into the mist,
You were born with a snake in both of your fists while a hurricane was blowing
Freedom just around the corner for you
But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?

@Philip Brady: jokerman. Infidels, great album

@just readin: ta

@Atheos Euripides: people like you amaze me, even the bloody protesters for this sham of a family were segregated by gender outside the Egyptian embassy in Dublin, gullible

@Philip Brady: Humphrys writes opinion pieces. He even did an entire paragraph on Halawi destroying his passport that started with him admitting that there’s no evidence that it happened.

@Atheos Euripides:

Not a word against the Muslim Brotherhood ? from you Atheos Euripides either.. do you support them or just support their support

Interning minors based on their political views.

Maybe Egypt has it sussed after all. We could start by locking up our resident juvenile Xenotrolls…

@Liam flag: because this is the only account you’ve ever had?

@Atheos Euripides: You’re a clown!!!!

@TheJeff: I think that goes without saying, come to think of it, I’ve yet to see you condemn the MB.

@Philip Brady:

Mark Humphry’s posts on Halawa, the Clonskeagh mosque and the Muslim Brotherhood is at best a set of ridiculous conspiracy theories, while mainly gibberish, and nothing more.

Public data has been blended with unsubstantiated claims, resulting in disinformation that isn’t falsifiable. Some may consider such a move clever. It’s not. It’s nonsense, and that’s all it is. Nonsense.

The untrained and gullible eye might consider Humphry’s nonsense trustworthy, and I guess that’s his goal (if I were to take a stab at it) – to ridicule his audience and persuade them into believing in his sinister agenda spreading falsehoods.

To your question – it’s not for the receiver to disprove an assertion. It goes the other way around. Humphry knows this, having an academic background.

@Philip Brady:

So let’s start here, with this Humphry joker.

Prove (not to me, but to yourself) that the following ridiculous claim is true:

“Ibrahim Halawa is not a tourist. He is Muslim Brotherhood royalty.”

There are three items you need to prove:
1. He is not a tourist
2. He is Muslim Brotherhood (MB)
3. He’s MB royalty

Let’s keep it simple and stick with simple verification:

Each of the three assertions above only needs 3 independent and reliable sources verifying the individual claims.

Keep in mind, that’s only one sentence from this mountain of garbage Humphry has produced.

Good luck.

@Dave O Keeffe: Yup

@Liam flag: fair play, must have confused you with someone else.

@Dog Eat Fog: He is the son of the General Secretary of the European Council for Fatwa and Research.
There you go, I proved it for you.
You’re welcome.

@Mark Humphrys:

Mark,

You have here now merely delivered yet another statement of public knowledge, possibly in the hope that all your unsubstantiated claims will fall in line with it.

They don’t.

You have proven nothing. Nonsense, that’s all you have. Unsubstantiated nonsense.

@Dog Eat Fog: Halawa himself declares that he is General Secretary of the European Council for Fatwa and Research. How do you spin that? http://markhumphrys.com/Images/982.a.png

@Mark Humphrys:

Exactly, it is common knowledge that he is the General Secretary of ECFR. Exactly what I just said “You have here now merely delivered yet another statement of public knowledge…”

It seems as if you want that piece of information to mean more than it does.

Let’s be clear, it means this – Hussein Mohammed Halawa is the General Secretary of the ECFR. No more, no less.

There’s no spin.

As I said, you have proven nothing.

@Dog Eat Fog: The ECFR is a Muslim Brotherhood organisation. A diverse array of respectable sources say so. https://www.google.ie/search?num=100&q=”European+Council+for+Fatwa+and+Research”+”muslim+brotherhood”

@Dog Eat Fog: This is a matter of public record, you can look it up yourself, if you care to take the time to do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Council_for_Fatwa_and_Research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_al-Qaradawi

@Mark Humphrys: it’s always fun to see someone use themselves as a source, Bravo on that one.

@Mark Humphrys: Don’t feed the trolls bro

@Mark Humphrys:

You produce yet another unsubstantiated claim and top it off with a google search, and that’s your evidence?

Seriously?

You’re a fraud.

You have proven nothing.

@Jed I. Knight:

While I have no evidence that suggests the information provided on the two wiki pages you just posted are genuine, I equally have no reason to doubt them.

Do you have a point in posting them? Or do you merely want to demonstrate that you too have found Wiki?

@Dave O Keeffe: I’m not the source. The source is Halawa’s own mosque: http://www.islamireland.ie/events/ecfr-conference-press-release/

@Dog Eat Fog: Wall Street Journal, 4 Aug 2005. http://www.zmo.de/pressekit/material/Wall_Street_BG.pdf
Says ECFR is a MB organisation.

Mary Fitzgerald, Irish Times, 12 Feb 2011: “Many Muslims in Ireland speak of the ICCI as the “Ikhwani” mosque, an Arabic-language reference to the Muslim Brotherhood”.

Umar Al-Qadri says Halawa is Muslim Brotherhood.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10214432098983086&id=1437153957&pnref=story

Loads more like this if you want them.

@Dog Eat Fog: Each item taken in isolation may be explained, however when examined int he context of what happened it’s a different story.
The siblings come from a high ranking Muslim Brotherhood family, they would have been brought up in this culture.
When a MB president in Egypt was ousted they travelled there to protest in support of him. They didn’t go to any other muslim country, they didn’t protest at the ousting of anyone else, the went to various rally’s admitted they risked the violence, were even injured and willing to risk dying for this cause.
This was clearly not the actions of innocent Irish tourists, who at that time were advised by the Department of Foreign Affairs to avoid Egypty due to increasing violence there. They, in effect, flew into a war zone.
Subsequent to their arrest a major operation went into effect with breath taking speed, their social media accounts were not just closed but cleansed. Almost all traces of them online were removed within a couple of days, this isn’t easy to do for anyone, especially people who had a considerable online presense.
Within weeks a major campaign began with amazing resources available and few if any questions ever answered, if any got too ‘toasty’ allegations of racism and hate speech were made. Remember the claims “if his name was Brian and he was from somewhere in Dublin or Kildare”? Asking perfectly valid questions is not racism or hatred.

@Jed I. Knight:
If he was a white supremacist neo-nazi people would hold him in the same contempt – it has nothing to do with his skin colour and everything to do with his far-right supremacist views.
It’s incredible (and more than a little ironic) that the far-left have leapt to his defence at every opportunity.

@Mark Humphrys:

A Facebook post and a 12 years old op-ed.

Thanks, I can manage without.

Feel free to see my second post here today (addressed to a Philip), for the most simple and straightforward approach to credibly backup assertions and claims.

@Avina Laaf: His skin colour is irrelevant, it certainly is to me at any rate. I don’t care what colour someone is and find that sort of thing completely crazy. I’ve heard of people refusing to let nurses and doctors to treat their children because of their ethnicity. Why? I’d rather check their qualifications or if they’d washed their hands.
Using things like that is just an excuse, a smokescreen, to muddy the water and distract from what’s really going on.

@Jed I. Knight:

I don’t mind anyone asking questions or examining theories, that’s all good – and many times quite productive.

Claiming something to be true, especially accusations, without backing it up with evidence, however, which is what’s happening here – that’s in my view unproductive, irresponsible, unacceptable and quite disgraceful.

I personally don’t care too much for this Halawa person. I don’t know him, I don’t know his family, I don’t share his faith, and so on.

That said, a complete assassination of his character, his family’s character and their reputation is in the balance here, with no more than conspiracy theories to drive the agenda. It’s low.

If you’re so convinced you’re right, and it’s that important, then find the evidence to stand on, then deliver your claims.

@Dog Eat Fog: It’s been established that their father is a high ranking member of the Muslim Brotherhood, all he’s short of doing is hand out cards.
In this context his children went to Egypt, a warzone, despite warnings from the Department of Foreign Affairs to protest in favour of Morsi, another MB member. Given the video’s they made while there, what they said etc. they clearly were not tourists.
Are they MB royalty? That term is subjective, but they’re certainly the children of a high ranking member.

@Mark Humphrys: don’t be silly, I was clearly referring to your first two comments on this thread. The first one where you state something and then deem it proven even though nobody denied it and the second where your source was your blog.

@Dog Eat Fog: I give up. Only statements that come from Halawa’s mosque would satisfy you.
Still, one last try: Show me a credible source that says ECFR is NOT MB. Any credible source that firmly denies it and says it is all a misunderstanding. I would be interested.

@Dog Eat Fog: The evidence, as you well know, is circumstantial, if it were not he wouldn’t be leaving Egypt. Now would he?

@Mark Humphrys: It’s just getting embarrasing now Mark, please stop. You lost your crusade.

@Mark Humphrys: sorry, you now want someone to find evidence that disproves a claim you’ve failed to back up? Burden of proof lies with you chief.

@Mark Humphrys:

Mark,

At some stage in the past 12 years you stole my car.

Now prove to me that you didn’t. Give me three reliable and independent sources that can provide physical evidence asserting that you in fact did not steal my car in this period of time and thus clear you from the accusation.

If you can not do this, feel free to reimburse me for the loss I made when you stole it.

Keep in mind, any potential evidence you provide, I will use them to tune the accusation to further establish that you, in fact, stole my car.

—

That’s what we call an infalsifiable assertion. That’s why most western court systems are based on the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

And that’s why it’s your job to prove your claims, and not mine to disprove them.

Have a good day.

@Mark Humphrys: My comments seem to be refused / going into moderation. Maybe cos I posted links. Sigh.

@Dog Eat Fog: Maybe the the correct authorities should conduct a investigation ? The catholic church covered up abuse for years, before anything was done. There were allegations towards priests but it was dismissed because of lack of substantial evidence. But we soon found out many of these allegations were true. The Murphy Report was established, it went well beyond its mandate. I could give you links all day, but it will still not change your mind I feel.

@Mark Humphrys:
Defeating this link blocker is hard! This is about my 5th attempt.

To: Atheos, Dave, Dog. I genuinely think you 3 are just trolling now. You’re not interested in these issues. You’re just having fun.

All the evidence is laid out in vast detail on my site, with links to sources. In case anyone sane is listening.
These 3 pages (trying to defeat the link blocker):
On my site:

muslim.brotherhood.html
clonskeagh.html
halawa.html

@Atheos Euripides: Racists? Thought you said he was Irish?

@Mark Humphrys: trolling? No. I’ve just learned a lot about you from previous interactions. Hint: post one link at a time. Also, it’s better if you link to your source rather than linking to yourself to generate traffic.

@Dave O Keeffe: My site links to the sources for everything. I’m not going to mock up special pages for trolls who won’t read them anyway.

@Mark Humphrys: I would laugh my nuts off if he sues you, I’d even contribute to the costs if anybody wants to set up a fund.

@Ron North:
In order to sue you’d need to prove that what Mark has on his page is untrue. As far as I can make out he’s repeatedly challenged people to do this and nobody has taken up the challenge.

@Avina Laaf:

Err, no.

“Only a false statement is actionable. But defamation differs from other torts in that a statement will be presumed to be defamatory until proved otherwise. If a defendant wishes to plead justification as a defence, he has to prove the truth of the statement. No matter how old the allegation or how obscure or how intrusive of a person’s privacy, a complainant is not entitled to bring an defamation action in relation to publication of a true statement.

A false report which is published maliciously is likely to attract higher damages than an erroneous report published innocently – but damages for errors can still be high enough to put media organisations out of business.”

As per the Defamation Act of 2009.

@Avina Laaf:

To be clear – freedom of expression (Article 40.6.1.i Irish Constitution) and freedom of speech (Article 10 (1) European Human Rights Convention) do not extend to libel and slander.

Personally, if I were Humphry, I’d be quite concerned, considering not only what he has published without justification and with complete lack of evidence, but also his documented efforts spreading his publications, using venues such as The Journal article comment sections.

But hey, that’s just me.

@Darren Gray: wow do you really believe your own crap

@Darren Gray: http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-muslim-brotherhoods-war-on-coptic-christians

@James Grant: Please enlighten me. Tell me where I went wrong. I didn’t make it up, unlike most of the comments on this site or most of the fake news that you read in your spare time.

@Chad Rockett: Same to you ‘Chad’.

@Chad Rockett: http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indepth/features/2017/06/muslim-brotherhood-explained-170608091709865.html#ampshare=http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/06/muslim-brotherhood-explained-170608091709865.html

@Darren Gray: If you get a chance to meet him perhaps you might ask him why he went to Egypt and what that is connected with Sharia Law but you don’t seem to mind they have abase in Ireland. Go to The MB website and see what they think of spreading sharia law and look the females in your life and tell them what you think of their future. I am waiting for the dangerous fools who support him and his vile family to criticise me for not liking their plans. It is horrible that he and nobody else is being Irishman before his name is printed or mentioned in the media. An “honour” that is afforded to all Irishmen because most of them are not pretending to be Irish .

@Darren Gray: Fair point on a lot of people taking hearsay as fact and maybe we all should be doing more research but from what I’ve read over the years I don’t think you can say for certain they are not an extremist organisation any more than I could say they definitely are. It’s open to contention.

My stance on the entire Halawa case is that it’s not as cut and dried as either side are trying to make it. It’s a complex issue which unfortunately has degenerated into a Stereotyping vs Virtue Signalling point scoring contest.

@Ed Moss: I agree with some of what you said. So many different ideologys and “free thinkiners” but no resolve. The biggest thing for me is the contradictions, I don’t support trump, but it seems the media is on him 24/7. Why not do some actual reporting on the muslim brother hood, are we afraid to ask difficult questions? Actually no one asks questions just give their two cent.

@Ed Moss: The Muslim Brotherhood used violence in the early Twentieth Century to gain independence from Britain, sound familiar? There have been acts of violence against Christians by supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, but this is because they blame this group for the coup. This is certainly not the party’s policy.

The problem with most of the stuff that you read is tainted with, what Noam Chomsky calls, the propaganda model. Part of this model indicates who is a worthy or unworthy victim. Unfortunately, when the media does this in relation to Muslims attacking Christians this backs up the prejudices that a lot of people have. Some people say that these prejudices stem from the time of the Crusades, which created an us against them mentality among Christian states.

@Darren Gray: They may have (officially) renounced violence , but they want to implement Sharia as the law of the land , that makes anyone who is not a muslim a second class citizen , Sharia 101 , a woman is half a mans worth , and a dhimi is even less .

@Jho Harris: what are the Halawi’s plans? With quotes please. PS if you don’t like me replying to you on a public forum then a public forum is not the place for you. Or you could just mute me. Choice is yours, back up your statement or run away

@Peter Cavey: You wanna throw children in jail for holding views you don’t like?

@Jho Harris:Correction “An “honour” that is NOT afforded to all Irishmen because most of them are not pretending to be Irish .

@Dave O Keeffe: I have only two words for you the second one is off,, you are becoming more of a nuisance with passing time. I don’t have to justify anything to you so I won’t but you and the other fools who support him why should realise why The MB exists other than to spread Sharia law throughout the world.

@Jho Harris: that’s way more than two words darling. So essentially you’re saying you won’t answer a legitimate question on your beliefs while here hammering somewhere for beliefs that they have not been proven to have. Nice work. Like I said, mute me or run away. The third option, whingeing, is something I thought was beneath you until that comment. Boo hoo, someone replied to me on a public forum wah wah wah.

@Jho Harris: Unfortunately, you are mistaken. They exist to spread democracy and political participation throughout the Islamic world. Why do you think that the main opponents, Saudi Arabia, have deemed them problematic? Both are Sunni, yet Saudi Arabia (who promote the spread of their brand of religion and strongly advocate Sharia law) has labeled them a ‘terrorist organisation’. Please open your eyes and stop letting your Islamaphobic get in the way of common sense.

@Darren Gray: *Islamaphobia

@Darren Gray: You clearly haven’t a notion, but what’s dangerous is that you think you do.

The Muslim Brotherhood blatantly exploited the breakdown in Egyptian politics to get “democratically” elected when they had no real opponents.

Widespread reports of intimidation at polling stations during the “election” and a party that as soon as they got a sniff of power decided democracy was overrated and began dismantling it through a Hitleresque authoritarian power grab.

Anybody telling the world the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt care about democracy are *seriously* deluding themselves. Also, small tip, using the word ‘Islamophobia’ is a sure-fire way to get you laughed out of the room.

@Peter Cavey: Al Jazeera said they are so you better be careful

@Malachi: Why is that? What is your political affiliation, it’s nice to know who I’m talking to. Please show me proof, from a reputable source, that backs up your claims. I’m open to new ideas, unlike some people, so convince me that I’m wrong.

@Shane Cormican: Where do you get your new? Breitbart or Info Wars?

@Darren Gray: so let me get his straight. You are in support of an organization whose stated goals are to have sharia as the law of the state, to reclaim what they say as Islamic lands stretching from Spain to Indonesia, to ban dancing and past times, to segregate women and men, to provide different education for men and women. What planet are you on?

@Darren Gray: I don’t have any ‘political affiliations’, not that it matters. I believe in human rights, including the right to legitimate self governance.

I’m confused what you need sources for. Have you really not been following the situation to the extent that you deny Morsi/the MB was destroying Egyptian democracy piece by piece? Is that even controversial?

Seriously, just go and look up his attempted subversion of the democratic process and the national constitution as President. A wiki article would give you the basics. I’m here if you have any questions…

@Malachi: Of course I need sources, the lack of which doesn’t change my point of view. I have been following the situation in Egypt since Mubarak was toppled.

The reason I asked about your affiliation is that you have a picture of Ayatollah Khomeini as your profile picture. I take it that it’s not supposed to be complimentary. So, do you support Saudi Arabia, or do you just have disdain for the entire Islamic world?

To pick up on another point that you made, el-Sisi is has effectively outlawed democracy in Egypt. A simple glance at the Human Rights Watch website will give you all the evidence that you need.

If you are truly concerned about human rights in Egypt, then you should direct your ire at the current regeme .

@Malachi: Here’s a quick factsheet on the MB: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1023139

@Darren Gray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkjLUBt6GkQ

@Honeybadger197: Sadly Darren Gray and David O’ Keefe are apologist for the rotten faith that wants to destroy our way of life, slowly but within. The latter does a great impersonation of a dog turd, one you don’t mean to attract but like the turd he is very hard to get rid of, he is an insulting bully who has such a high opinion of himself anyone who does not share his views will be targeted. I have read the article which you sent but there is not enough intelligence in these two to know what Izlam wants to do to non believers.

@Jho Harris: lol, you do realise that your description of me is exactly what you yourself have done in the post? How is asking you a question targeting you? Also, when have I ever been an apologist for Islamic fundamentalism? You have managed to drag me into and make me the focal point of a message to somebody else that wasn’t talking to me either. You’re the worst kind of coward.

@Jho Harris: I promise that this is my last comment of the day.

I noticed that you responded to another commentator, who shares your backward, insular views, and not to me. Is that because you don’t have the intelligence to debate me, or, you can’t find flaws in my logic?

As I have said in a previous comment, I’m open to new ideas but I need convincing. Unfortunately, the fear mongering and bile that you spout certainly does not change my point of view.

By all means, continue to live in the sad little world of a keyboard warrior, who hates everything that’s different (especially Islam) but do not question my intelligence when you don’t have the guts to debate me directly.

@Darren Gray: It’s as simple as this. In countries where muslims are the minority they’re obsessed with human rights, in countries where muslims are the majority – there are no human rights.

@Darren Gray:
You’re truly deluded. This is what the Halawas went over there to support:
http://www.cihrs.org/?p=6849&lang=en

@Darren Gray: You’ve misrepresented me quite a bit in so few words.

I didn’t cite sources because it’s common knowledge Morsi tried to start his own MB dictatorship after the election – why do you think millions flooded the streets?

Source, since you insist;
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/11/23/world/middleeast/egypts-president-morsi-gives-himself-new-powers.html

My profile picture is the TIME cover published after the Ayatollah Khomeini’s offer of money for the murder of a novelist – probably one of the most flagrant attacks on Western values in the past century. It’s not complimentary – should it be?

Saudi Arabia is a disgusting theocracy and I have consistently condemned them. Al-Sisi’s military dictatorship is disgraceful, but that has nothing to do with your defence of the MB.

@Darren Gray: In essence – your point about Al-Sisi’s dictatorship is a non-sequitur.

I will happily condemn such a repugnant, torturous regime – the point we were arguing was whether the MB/Morsi care about democracy – this assertion of yours could only be made if you hadn’t been following Morsi’s tenure whatsoever. See source above.

Why did you decide to sidetrack the conversation?

@Malachi:
In my original comment, I stated the reason why the West and Israel had an interest in toppling of the democraticaly elected government in Egypt. The media, in the US, plays a vital role in justifying why the leaders opposed to American interests are the ‘bad guys’. I’m not saying that the US directly influenced the coup, but it certainly justifies being friendly with the people that did, afterwards. So, unfortunately I’m less than convinced by the NY Times article or your assertion that Morsi was a dictator in waiting. It’s no surprise that he attempted to change the constitution after 30 years under a dictatorship. (See Manufacturing Consent, by Noam Chomsky) .

If I misrepresented your position, I apologise.

@Darren Gray:
I’m sorry, but you’re just in denial. You don’t need to take our word for it – statements from the MB themselves should tell you all you need to know about them.

@Dave O Keeffe: I really don’t want to get involved in your futile games can we call a truce now ?

@Darren Gray: The irony of you calling my criticism of Izlam as backward, insular views, yet if you know anything about sharia law you would never have the cheek to use that response. I am not allowed to hate Izlam, sadly I won’t have an opportunity to look you in the face when you are proven wrong.

@Darren Gray: luvely people God bless em like

@Darren Gray: “attempted to change the constitution after 30 years of dictatorship”

Changing the constitution is one thing. Taking it apart to make yourself the supreme leader is quite another, don’t you think?

Don’t fool yourself – Morsi and the MB showed us how dedicated they were to democracy well before they were thrown out (i.e. not very).

Why didn’t the NYT article convince you? You didn’t say. Why ask for a source and brush it away without explanation? What falsehoods are in the article?

@KingBen: so let’s get this straight, you want an article written about an innocent man that claims he’s not innocent?

Military dictatorships should not imprison minors based on their political opinions.

Earth-shattering stuff.

@Diarmuid: if you want copyright, prove it’s not poached.

@DarkHorse: No. Morsi was slowly dismantling Egypt’s democracy from the inside – being democratically elected does not (or should not) grant you the power to mould yourself into a dictator.

@Malachi: Bingo.

@Malachi:

I’m not defending Morsi or Halawa! I’m just playing devils advocate

@Honeybadger197: He was deposed by the military how can you contest an election if your party is banned!!! Your ridiculous you are allowing your obvious prejudice get in the way of the truth. Are you defending the current Government in Egypt? Do you think they have nothing to answer for in the wholesale murder of innocent people? If a democratic election is overturned illegally all bets are off the table that is when one side declares war on another. It has happened in Ukraine and it has happened in Egypt and sooner or later the chickens come home to roost. But I cannot believe you are defending a Military regime.

@Austin Rock: lol. Put the strawman back in its box please. You ask am I defending SiSi and then conclude your comment telling me I am. Ironic, given you accused me of prejudice.

@DarkHorse: I didn’t imply you were defending either… I’m just making the point that defending Morsi on a democratic platform would really make no sense.

@DarkHorse:
One could argue that but one would look pretty stupid when the reality of Morsi’s actions when in power were scrutinised.