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TENS OF THOUSANDS more people may be in jobs now than at the peak of the recession but the government has failed to stop talented young Irish people abandoning the country.
Fianna Fáil jobs spokesman Dara Calleary has accused the government of failing to stem the tide of emigration – particularly among those under 35 - despite the administration claiming success with its job-creation plans.
“If things are so successful, why are people still leaving the country and why is the talent still leaving?,” he said.
He made the comments at an Oireachtas Jobs Committee meeting today after Jobs Minister Richard Bruton claimed “substantial progress” had been made on goals set under the 2012 “action plan for jobs”.
Bruton earlier said the government had set a target of getting 100,000 people back at work by 2016 and the the latest figures showed about 90,000 people had returned to work with the gains coming in full-time jobs.
He also said there had also been a 30% drop in the level of net migration – from 34,000 people leaving the country in 2013 to 21,000 last year.
Emigration is going in the right direction … and I believe it has come down since then as well,” he said.
Those figures were based on the most-recent figures from the CSO which cover the year ending in April 2014.
Irish still emigrating
However an analysis of the same data shows the emigration level among Irish people has barely changed over the same period after peaking in 2013.
Last year the net migration figure was still in negative territory with more than 30,000 more Irish nationals emigrating than those who were moving back. The total was last in positive figures in 2009, when 3,800 more locals returned than left the country.
Bruton said the “only response” to emigration was job creation and the government was on track for its goal of full employment by 2018, which in effect means a jobless rate of about 5%.
The latest live register figures showed the unemployment rate stood at 10.1% in February.
Bruton said there was “no doubt” emigration had hit the under-35 age bracket the hardest, but many of the jobs now being created were well paid and in highly-skilled positions.
Essentially there is a war for talent in every country in the world. It will take time to get emigration down, but a drop of 30% in emigration over the last 12 months … is a good step.”
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Over taxed on everything.
Bullsxxt spin from a bullsxxt government.
The tax in many countries is higher than Ireland!
No, only Ireland has taxation.
True, but at least they get adequate services such as healthcare, etc.!
Ireland is terrible in very way.
All elected politicians have only malice and greed in their hearts working only to make things worse for as many people as possible. All observable improvements are illusory, only the bad things are real.
And something about Denis O’Brien.
Ireland is great if you are on social welfare, but people earning between 60 and 150k have a right to feel aggrieved as they are being taxed into oblivion! You would not blame them for leaving. Also, people like to see the great big world, regardless of their current state of affairs.
Lets just hope that tech bubble doesn’t pop
Yes but that tax take goes towards decent services or excellent childcare,
We pay back gamblers.
1. Zero hour contracts.
2. Temporary, low hour contracts
3. Minimum wage ( or less ) contracts.
4. Shit t & c’s.
5. No prospect dead end jobs.
6. The USC theft from wages.
7. Going to to rate of tax at lowest entry point in Europe.
8. The PRSI tax.
After tax punishments
The highest cost of living in Europe for
Childcare
G.p. & medicine
Transport private & public
Food & beverages
Utilities.
Home tax.
Water tax.
Why wouldn’t continue to emigrate, even if they could get a job here they’d be working for nothing.
You have my number one Denis Maher
Dont forget Denis,if you manage to save you wil lose over 40 % due to dirt tax witch you wont see in any other country.Oh I forgot the PENSIONLEVY.
And don’t forget this new horseshit that being introduced whereby you’re financially penalised if you don’t acquire private health insurance before the age of 34…
@DMaher
Ireland GDP €210 billion p.a. wealth created supports just 4.6 million people.
Portugal GDP €213 billion p.a. wealth created supports 10.4 million people.
Italy GDP €2014 billion p.a. wealth created supports 61 million people.
So something very wrong with the Irish economy!
Who is grabbing an unfair portion of the wealth created by the population into their pockets…?
Why did 300,000 have to be “exported” after the 2008 crash?
Who are the financial predators grabbing the wealth …… ?
Some major reforms needed before Irish have a successful fair equitable society
PS: Will all of us 300,000 get out tax back please .. about $45 Billion (300,000 x 15 yrs x €10,000 tax p.a.) rather than using it to drive around in 151 cars …. not quite as much as ye gave to the Banks (€67 billion) ………
Because some other countries don’t tax the bajeebus out of you! People have been absolutely pounded and they’ve had a gutful!
Also, some people want to live in countries where it is actually a feasible prospect to buy a house… or rent one for that matter.
And some people want to live in a country that has at least one maternity hospital where women are not herded like cattle.
And some people want to live in a country where the government doesn’t wait until most of us have 2 hour long commutes before beginning to think about infrastructure.
Our income tax system is the most progressive in the developed world!
“Our income tax system is the most progressive in the developed world!”
This is the list of income tax bands in Australia (in A$):
0 – $18,200 – 0%
$18,201 – $37,000 – 19%
$37,001 – $80,000 – 32.5%
$80,001 – $180,000 – 37%
$180,001 and over – 45%
https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/
You don’t pay the top rate of tax until your income is €127,930.35
In Ireland you pay the top rate of tax when you are earning €33,800
Tell me again how progressive Ireland’s tax regime is..
The only additional charge in Australia is the 2% medicare levy. Ireland has PRSI and USC.
Australia’s GST is 10%; Ireland’s VAT is 23%. This is not a progressive tax.
When Ireland was regarded as the most progressive, it was in the middle of the housing bubble. Nearly everyone who owned a house was a millionaire then and everyone who bought a house had to pay ludicrous amounts of money in stamp duty each time. So on paper it looked like millionaires were paying loads of tax. Of course we know the property prices were bogus and the millionaires were not millionaires at all.
Jtm. It’s very progressive, but not in a good way. It’s lopsided. If you think of a graph, the progression is not linear at all. The line towards the right tends towards infinity without ever touching the 100% effective tax rate…
A good progressive example would be Australia, 4 or 5 distinct bands.
I did give that example.
You did,
On fire today Jake,
Fair play.
Yes Jake – there’s so much shit wrong with this government it makes it difficult to fit it onto a nice catchy placard.
“In Ireland you pay the top rate of tax when you are earning €33,800″
Yes, but you pay next to no direct tax if you earn less than €18k. VAT is of course regressive, but I’d rather they flattened out income tax. It is nuts that your income is ripped to pieces once you hit €35k, especially given the poor quality public services we are provided with in turn.
Maybe this will help to explain the Irish tax system …
CSO figures for average public and private sector pay – 2013.
€565 : UK average private sector weekly pay.
€581 : UK average public sector weekly pay.
Difference : 3%.
€623 : Irish average private sector weekly pay.
€929 : Irish average public sector weekly pay.
Difference : 49%. reduced to 43.24% in April 2014.
- 300,000 Irish Private Sector workers overboard since 2008 … “can we please have our tax back?”
Looks like Irish still don’t know how to vote!
The question needs to be asked now – what makes Ireland worth staying for?
If I were thirty years younger I’d go too.
We must stay because if we leave how will Enda & Joan live on 3500 per week, You really can’t expect them to live on less, we must pay our tax & everything else they can dump on us so we starve & they get richer.
What makes Ireland worth staying for? It’s one of the happiest and safest countries in the world to live in, as many global studies have shown.
Thats an interesting point of view that flys on the face of the loss of a generation of young people which continues unabated, nearly 200,000 of them in the last five years. A country that looses its younger generation because it offers them no future has no future.
Yeah, fair enough, just commenting on research done. I hope as many as possible come back and make it an even better place, and people vote with their heads for once. Never make a decision based on anger or greed.
Government propaganda election rubbish. This country is riddled with cronyism and political corruption.
good news = propaganda
bad news = truth
Repeat.
Evidence = Nil
Who wants to stay for low paid jobs?
Zero hour contracts are brilliant
Up to 85,000 on job activation/CE schemes, minimum wage jobs, zero hour contracts, and the prospect of you, your kids and grandkids paying off debts that they had nothing got to do with.
If I were a younger man and out of work, I’d be heading to the airport myself.
See ya
Give it a go! It would make many people who use this site very happy!
Can you provide links to backup this number?
Recovery? Pppffffttthhhhh…. Certainly not in the majority of tax payers cases anyway. Prices in this country for the majority or goods and services are extortionate. You get ZERO for your prsi. And don’t get me started on that fcuking USC. I don’t blame folk one bit for leaving. If you have no mortgage, no commitments (and yes I know of people who have both and emigrated) where’s the incentive to stay?
Simple truth versus spin (lies).
Only party hacks and wilfully ignorant fools believe the government at this stage , I think the people on this forum that swarm anyone who argues against government spin should examine their consciences and question why they do it and why they support a system of government that forces a mass exodus of our young every 15 years .
Shameful behaviour.
Deco – if SF /IRA get into power we will have many more people leaving the country. Any successful employee will leave and all foreign investment will stop’
Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
I don’t support SF or any of them they are all whipped , none of them ever got it right or anywhere near it , SF won’t either , I don’t want to be ruled by some parties ideology for their full term, without a hope of challenging
I would like to have citizen initiated referendum and recall introduced into our constitution to put the brakes on government over reach and a put a check on Incompetent or corrupt politicians ,introducing this will also put a pause button on guillotining legislation that is not in the countries best interest.
SF FF FG LAB etc would be looking over their shoulders at us watching them govern rather than just looking to get another term in office if this system was introduced.
It’s simple enough do your job as you promised when canvassing or you will be recalled, govern the country for the people or we will challenge your legislation by initiating a challenge via referendum .
And who will find these initiatives? How will they be overseen to make sure they’re not ‘gamed’? Sorry to break it to you but it’s not simple. If you vote for politicians based on their promises, you only have yourself to blame
SF have enshrined the ability for the public to call a general election in their constitution just last weekend, via petition of course
Can’t find that motion – only ‘This Ard Fheis calls for legislation whereby any citizen of voting age can, by obtaining a required amount of signatures, trigger a referendum within a specific time frame.’ ‘Required number’ is a little vague. Could be open to the trade union movement to do this as they might get required numbers most easily. Not necessarily a bad thing though!
Overpriced & overtaxed. Work in Ireland only just pays…. If I was 10 years younger, I would be gone in a flash.
Things are ;so successful’ (snort) in part at least BECAUSE people are leaving. Sure, some people will go in the best of times, but they are often people who’d get work anyway if they stayed. Now it’s people leaving cos they know there is no work here.
By leaving, in numbers, they are reducing unemployment, reducing social welfare costs etc etc etc. These people by leaving are making the economy look better, so there is really no way in hell the government want emigration rates to fall. The myriad of job schemes that are making the unemployment figures look better are also part of what makes it possible to trumpet about reduced unemployment.
Take both of those factors out and it would not be such a pretty picture.
Actually most people who leave are people who are already in employment.
As a recent emigrant who could probably eventually find work in Ireland, why would I stay in a country to pay for services that I don’t want, where treatment for my own condition is not recognized or provided and that the treatment abroad scheme has failed, where if I were to have an at risk pregnancy due to that condition and had to end that pregnancy I would have to go to England and come back only to pay for my own counseling, where if the pregnancy went well there still wouldn’t be specialist care for my child who could possibly inherit the same condition, and where I am still not allowed to marry. As a “privileged white person” in other countries, I fall into a lot of Ireland under served populations. Why the hell would I ever want to return to a country that doesn’t give a damn and can’t provide any of the things that I need for a decent quality of life? Elsewhere I contribute to the societies I live in, work in an executive professional role and pay as much taxes as they ask me to; because I feel looked after as an individual within their system.
I don’t think we need or expect everyone that emigrates to come back – lots of people are happier and have better lives in other countries and good for you/them. So you don’t ever (the hell) have to return.
Why are there 440,000 getting a dole payment when they are passed onto DSP schemes to play the CSO figures?
FF should of paid such attention to the young people in September 2008 as they are now!
FG/Lab paid particular attention to under 25′s in pervious budgets, is that the type of attention you mean?
They’re leaving because they think Sinn Fein will be running the country next year and then we’re all screwed. Get out while you can people!!!!
As a parent I see it as giving them the best education we can afford that is often beyond our means .. But at the end of the day we are educating them to emigrate
I agree with above comment it feels like it’s not our country anymore
We feel like a minority here
Work , pay tax , pay more tax one way or another through different bills etc
We do not get any bonus for working our ass off … Sickens me to the core
As for politicians ! Really
What do they know
Their heads are so far up their own asses and so thick – they actually believe their own babble
Its not our country anymore.
In good times and bad, people will always leave Ireland. What needs to happen is that the environment improves further so many of those people come back with new their skills and experiences. They won’t all come back and hopefully not as many will leave in the future as things improve.
People leave the country for a myriad of reasons. Some may actually have jobs and work hard but just want a better standard of living else where, that’s just one suggestion.
The government will have to triple their job creation to hit their full employment target………… or triple emigration.
I think a lot of people treat the recession as the perfect opportunity to travel and work abroad for a few years. Im sure a lot of them could get the same job in ireland but there is something tenacious in iroah people in that many of us want to try our hand at being succesful abroad.
*irish
Members of my family have decided to move abroad. Completely as a measure of seeing the world and of getting different experiences. This is now common for all countries. Looks like some of the commentators here would like to put a wall around Ireland to ensure that no-one can leave
It will be interesting to see the new CSO figures when the are released (April I think)
For life experiences. Same reason people came here, and why I came here. That said, if there is a top rate of tax introduced or if my tax burden increases even more, I will be moving north or across the waters to the UK.
And yes Niall…. The idea of SF in power in this country scares me rigid also.
The place is a kip
Make sure you tell all the Africans , Asians , Arabs etc who seem to be arriving in greater numbers , they don’t seem to think Ireland is a kip
It’s so grand here we got the feck out.
If Enda says it then it has to be right ,and if you dont think its true ask the banshee joan .
Because the country is in ruins and if young people want a good secure future it won’t be found here thanks to previous and current governments, who’s only answer is tax and jobs bridge!
Was beside a lady returning to Australia on a train yesterday and she put it as a good chance to explore the world -and gain experience. Being there for 2 years and said while she could come back and walk into a job now, she is happy where she is now but will returning in future!
‘Returning to Australia on a train’ long journey by train hope she had a seat.
Even during the “boom” years, thousands of young people emigrated to Australia and other countries, it’s nothing new.
People are fed up of people complaining….
Stop whinging Ray.
Because we are in recovery – nobody has claimed that we have recovered.
Don’t these trends take time to reverse?
Some recovery indeed. It’s all about how you tell/spin it.
89,300 fulltime employees are now on the minimum wage according to CSO.
80,000 taken off the live register and put into “activation” schemes at no cost to the employers.
300,000 emigrants over the past four years.
Its strange how people quote only stats that suit their view and fail to provide any links to verify them while accrediting them to the CSO. Have a look at the link below with particular attention to the labour market section. Surprisingly the average wage is up at over 700 pw. Your stat of over 80000 on minimum wage means that less than 4.5% of the 1.94m workforce is on the minimum wage.
Because we allow people to “leave” and still live here
Can pay, – won’t pay. WHOPS , , ,Wrong thread.
I choose to live overseas because If I live and work in Ireland my taxes will go into the pockets of our politicians and their cronies. I will never work in Ireland again, until the government repudiates the private banking debt and stops stealing from the working class to give to the rich.
The vast majority of people leaving are already in employment. Why wouldn’t you want to leave? Especially if you have a skill or a profession. Why stay here and have your income over 35k cut to pieces in return for mediocre public services, when you can demand the same salary in other countries and receive much better services for same. Especially when one of the potential incoming governments has a vendetta against talented, skilled and educated people making money for themselves.
Emigration culture and a lack of patriotism from Irish people in general. It has nothing to do with jobs.
Rochelle
What a load of cock and bull, this country does not belong to the Irish people anymore.
Patriotic ! When we have no say on what happens here ?
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/ireland-population-forecast-1970782-Mar2015/
Your only here to make the wealthy richer. Patriotic Ha Ha Ha
Just wait a while until more people leave, less skilled unemployed people will take their job and hey bingo the unemployment targets have been met.
Can anyone tell me when Pensioners last had an increase in their pension??
maybe the job and careers they want are not available in this country
We live on a small island and there is a big world out there to be experienced. People have a natural sense of adventure and desire to explore. Always have and always will do.
It’s home.. But some of is are the working poor..
They are leaving to make room for the immigrants. Just look at the charts. The irish were always hospitable.
While I acknowledge that it’s not a choice for a lot of people , for another large portion they simply want to leave and experience life abroad. I have immediate family abroad for both reasons. In my own case I plan on going to the US as soon as I graduate, not for a lack of jobs here, there is an increasingly large demand for engineering graduates but because that’s where a lot of the interesting work is taking place and if you want to be part of it you need to be in the middle of it. A large number of my friends are doing the same, it’s simply a side effect of globalisation
lifestyle choice for lots of people
have your say