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HOUSEHOLDS WILL NO longer receive Irish Water bills from this month, as the suspension of water charges takes tangible effect.
The charges have been suspended for the rest of the year while an expert commission deliberates how we fund our water system in the years to come.
Yet there are a host of imponderables, given that a large tranche of the population paid their bills, while others didn’t.
So no more bills - that’s great news isn’t it?
It’s a bit more complicated than that. Households who haven’t paid their existing bills remain liable for usage up to the end of March, according to the Government and Irish Water.
And charges are only suspended until the end of this year, so the utility could begin to start firing out the bills again before six months are out.
I’ve paid my Irish Water bills – does that mean I’m going to be effectively penalised for obeying the law?
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil maintain that non-payers and payers are to be treated equally. It effectively means that either people who paid will get their money back, or everyone who decided not to pay the bills will be pursued for payment.
Irish Water say “outstanding bills issued should be paid in full”, and helpfully say they will continue to accept payments through a whole host of means.
Direct debit customers who haven’t cancelled will no longer have payments deducted.
Can the Government make me pay my outstanding water charges?
As it stands, Irish Water’s strategy appears to be little other than sending pleading letters, text messages and occasional phone calls to recalcitrant water consumers.
A legal debt remains payable, but short of sending debt collectors to the doors of 500,000 people or instituting legal proceedings, it’s unclear what the Government can do.
What happens to Irish Water?
They might be about as popular as a foreigner at a Ukip convention, but Irish Water haven’t gone away, you know.
Everyone’s favourite semi-state remains in situ as the national water utility, handling water supply issues (and payment).
Are other people still paying their bills?
In May, Irish Water released figures showing a 20% drop in charges paid in the first quarter of 2016, from €42.3million to €33million.
It was viewed as a sign of wilting public willingness to cough up for a charge that was likely to be suspended following the General Election result.
At the end of May, Irish Water sent out the fifth and last batch of bills, covering January to March. They are due to release last figures for ‘Cycle 5′ at the end of this month.
Another large drop in paying figures is expected, with a substantial proportion of the 200,000 direct debit customers expected to have cancelled their mandates.
Overall, how many people paid their bills last year?
Almost two-thirds of liable households (64%, or 975,000 people) paid domestic water charges in 2015.
The total amount collected over the year was €144m which was 53% of the total income due from domestic charges during 2015.
What about the EU, how do they feel about the suspension of charges?
They’re not one bit happy. As confirmed by The Journal at the start of June, the European Commission insists our exemption from charging for water was over. In their words, water charges are “established practice” in Ireland and must remain, under the polluter pays framework.
They say any flexibility accorded to Ireland ended in 2010, when the Fianna Fáil-led coalition, backed by the Greens, agreed to introduce the charges.
Ah sure, Enda will fix some sort of deal, won’t he?
Doubtful. Given Ireland’s unique exposure to Brexit, it’s not really high on the wishlist of Ireland’s EU staff – or Brussels, given the imminent departure of the EU’s second biggest economy.
The Commission is unlikely to allow Ireland to breach the EU Water Framework Directive, and are likely to fine Ireland thousands of euro per day.
Could Late Payment Charges be applied to my account?
A late payment charge applies for usage before 1 April 2016, but Irish Water say “there are no plans” to apply late payment charges for time in the suspension period.
I’m moving house, what do I need to do?
If moving out of a rented property, Irish Water are asking people to ring them for a “closing bill”, for charges up to March 31. If moving into a rented property, Irish Water want you to register.
Under legislation, a property seller needs to provide evidence that the property has no outstanding bills with Irish Water or that the property is not connected to the Irish Water network.
What about the meters, are they still being installed?
Irish Water staff are continuing to read meters in order, they say, to learn information about the leaks and other issues.
They say they are planning to continue to install meters “on a case-by-case basis”. The first phase of household meter installations is due to complete this year.
I have mixed (household and business) water usage at my property, how will this affect me?
Commercial charges are unaffected by the suspension, and will continue to be levied by the relevant local authority, pending transfer to Irish Water’s billing system.
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Even after the Eurostat report of a compliance rate of 29%, the media still quote Alan kellys makey uppy figures. Would the true figure be even double digits I wonder? (Percent-wise ).
ff fg tactics at work be ware of the snakes in the long grass.ff fg sold us out to the banksters end of.next time vote for change or pay up.
vote for aaa pbp sf no government.
All the comments coming out now, like never paying, f@uk you IW, etc, well this problem has got bigger, it’s nowhere near finished, it’s only starting, FG and FF have there own agenda on this, and it is for us the people to pay, they have just moved the goal posts, unless FF and FG are thrown out of government this problem won’t go away, they are now going to spend millions on finding an other way to do this and they have nearly a year to do it, they are still trying to hold everyone liable for the costs to date, well not trying they are telling us, they will also spend millions on marketing to try plant it into our brains that we must pay, and then the fight starts again, I wish it was just abolished, only then can we say people power works
Mick…agree completely.
You’re right. All other countries are wrong. Norway Sweden Denmark Canada Australia are fascist states. We have the perfect democracy
That picture of Kenny and Merkel makes me want to regurgitate. Yuk of all yuks! It is sickening.
Just continue to ignore this corruption and carry on as normal. It is dead in the water, the dogs on the street know this. All it ever was, was a corruption levy and our gombeen idiots in charge have been caught with their pants down. It was never anything whatsoever to do with actual water management.
They can do what they like Patrick. You can’t compare countries like Canada where the have free medical for everyone and it works to Ireland where you have the HSE.
Guess you were a loyal merkle follower.
Just keep this up, please, Fianna Fail & Fine Gael. Please keep trying to push this despicable tax through. We will never pay.
But it will be the end of both parties in irish politics, wouldn’t that be wonderful !
Irish water the quango that keeps on spending..
Irish Water’s €1m bill for travel
This substantial bill included all money spent on public transport, as well as flights, mileage and taxi fares for Irish Water employees last year.
Almost 90pc of the total – some €780,000 – pertained specifically to “car travel expenses”, which according to Irish Water, included claims from staff submitted for “mileage, toll charges and car parking expenses”.
A total of €15,542 was spent on flights, while €67,686.61 was spent on trains, Luas and bus fares, according to documents released to the Sunday Independent through a Freedom of Information request.
A separate €11,982 was spent on taxis by Irish Water in 2015, an average of almost €1,000 per month.
The under-fire semi-state company, which has been ravaged by controversy since its establishment, defended the spending and said the figure accounted for 3,641 work-related trips.
However, this means that each trip cost an average of almost €237 each.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/irish-waters-1m-bill-for-travel-34852229.html&ved=0ahUKEwiz8cP2ntrNAhXFCcAKHRZzCtEQqUMIVDAS&usg=AFQjCNH1chaP_vDLrEU_aWdOEhAREHh-SQ
Well said
“Irish Water have finally stopped sending out bills – here’s what it means to you”
I’ll have to start buying bog roll again??
HA HA HA HA HA Oh what a wit you are FC. Boy oh boy that was a good one.
Fair play to you “N”. Should I fire the rest of my bills there too or is there a cut off point on you being a martyr?
Ill gladly go to jail for not paying twice for my water. Stand up for yourselves! Dont be bullied into paying by money hungry fools in power. How are the middle class supposed to afford all these bills. Im working 5 days a week. A home-owner and litterally myself and my fiancé are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Can’t afford a holiday this year either. Friends of mine on the DOLE CAN!! so feck off im not giving in. Now or ever, take me away and lock me up. I wont pay an unjust bill
Grinspoon doesn’t care what people think of him. That ‘s MR Grinspoon to you sir.
We can rely on Fianna Fail to honour their election pledge and abolish Irish Water ,ha, ha, ha, ha.
You do realise though Grinspoon that the money will come out of existing resources that the government has and so less will go towards transport, health etc?? Or you will have a crumbling water system and people across the country will continue to have polluted water and high levels of leakages. But don’t worry, I and others will just have to make up for it by doing the right and decent thing.
Karen. How about we elect a government which actually represents the good of the whole country, properly taxes who are getting sweet heart deals with corp. tax, IRBC interest rates, gravy train expenses, and government contracts with little or no regulation. One which will take a serious look at how semi statebodies like Irish Water and HSE etc are deep bits of financial loss and mismanagement. One who will take on bankers, landlords , insurance companies, off shore account holders, supposed non resident tax exiles,and all other ‘ free market’ gougers.
* pits of financial loss.
Karen, Gabby and N., you should all be embarrassed and ashamed of yourselves. Karen, in case you’ve been living under a rock since the start of all this, Irish Water is only trying to collect enough money to cover the costs of collecting that money. It is literally just there to exist so it can be sold. Refusal to see that is nothing short of childishness.
People who try to brow-beat others into surrendering to this scam, with insults like ‘sponger’ are despicable to me.
People who can’t see through this blatantly corrupt scam are simpletons who shouldn’t be allowed out of the house unless under supervision.
Karen the money’s there all right but thanks to our friends in the eu we aren’t allowed to spend our own money, also the two tier wage system here in Ireland where if your a well connected well heeled member of a clique your guaranteed a wage several multiples of everyone else. The system is set up to pit us against each other while the real movers and shakers are lapping it up in monte Carlo as non domiciled residents.
Karen. Wake up. Ireland is not a poor country. It’s not the money that’s the problem, it’s how its spent. It’s the corruption, cronyism,. Backyard deals that have to stop. It’s bad management, that’s the problem.
“The Commission is unlikely to allow Ireland to breach the EU Water Framework Directive, and are likely to fine Ireland thousands of euro per day.”
We won’t be breaching the EU directive though. The EU cannot prove that the bills paid to Irish Water ever paid for a single drop of water. As was previously shown, the money raised by Irish Water only covered the costs of billing customers. It never went towards the actual water service. We continued to pay for the water through general taxation, therefore the EU can sing for their money.
At least, that’s what a strong politician who puts Ireland’s needs ahead of the EU’s would say…
Maybe we should hire some Turkish negotiators.They seem to do well with the EU.
Chuckle ☺
Never, and I mean never….
Go and Fu(k right off with the bankers tax..
That photo of pandering Enda drooling over Angela has put me right off my lunch.. Sickening elitist trough seeker.. Despicable..
The fight is not over yet .. The Irish people already pay always have., don’t allow water to become a private commodity .. Question where there’ll have the billions that pay for our water infrastructure gone .. Billions . Corrupt governments lead sheep to slaughtered .
Joe O’Toole’s position as chairman of the Water commission is untenable after his revelations as to the objectives of the commission.
‘Sweeten the pill to make the medicine go down easier’
Joe wants the matter of bill collection to be handed over to the Revenue Commissioners.
Including TV License and all household charges.
Joe’s on a mission here to screw the electorate to the wall.
Looks like they are not listening, time to get back on the street. Right to water have called for a National demonstration in Dublin on Sept 17th at 2.
joe sounds like one sensible guy
They were Never getting a penny anyway
If they didn’t get a penny before, they certainly won’t be in the new year or anything like it. They’re basically throwing their hands up in the air now, there’s no going back!
In your face IW.
It just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on……………………………..
64% paid PART of their bills. A water framework expert poured cold water over the EU’S stance yesterday. If FF/FG continue this injustice they will pay for it in the next G.E. Same goes for independents who marched against these charges.
It was just a tax too much!
Except it wasn’t even a tax. I W is a filthy corrupt entity whose sole purpose was to enrich a few before being sold. Utter filth of the highest order.
Just goes to show if the public hold firm it is actually possible to change politicians mindsets
This “water commission” has one purpose only. Finding the best way of forcing people to comply with this water tax. It won’t take into account that we already pay, and have always paid for our water.
It also wont make any move in giving people the referendum on safeguarding our water from private vultures. Metering, arrests and more legislation to try and force compliance.
As Barry Cowan told us in no uncertain terms “The Dail will decide, no one else” what in fact does he think the function of the Dail is? Or who in fact pay the salaries, allowances and pensions of the Dail?
safeguarding… makes me think of that ad: “Irish Water. Safeguarding your water for your future”
What a horrible bare-faced lie.
They can send out the bills all they want, this student ain’t paying squat.
I got one last week..i reckon it could some day be historic.
Most of the government shills must be busy on the Farage article?
What about the people that didn’t register?
I didnt register but the bills kept coming…my own water and sewage…im gonna miss ms Arnett..but no doubt shes being headhunted as we speak..some quango/corporation owes her for something…..
Happy days, oh wait for the next big thing.
The principle being if they have stopped charging, technically it is no longer an established practice..
Martin, it never was established practice. Established practice has been domestic rates, income tax and indirect taxation. Never has it been by direct charges.
As if I didn’t know that already… Just saying may be the baffoons have to think about it from another angle now they’ve cancelled the charges..
Any chump that paid a water bill will just had to suck it up SUCKERS
There is only one option left for the Irish Water issue and that is if the EU insist that the water issue stays then we should call a referendum and dump the EU. Simple as that.
wont make a difference, I got the bill and got good use of my shredding machine
Still not paying…
FG/Lab and now FF have managed to screw local authority tenants rightly. The put a clause into the 2016 tenant purchase scheme that prevents local authority tenants from buying out their homes which they have lived in for many years unless they can provide “a certificate from Irish Water that they have no outstanding debts with the company”
They won’t even allow the house be valued by an auctioneer until they get the Cert from Irish Water.
But then request that they are told how u intend to finance the purchase price of the house.
Don’t most people walk into banks and say I need you to approve a mortgage for me as soon as possible but I have no idea how much I might need !!!
The Irish way of doing things….
Fcuk what merkel and the EU say …corporate thieves…looking after their cronies …..
We will still be paying through taxation for dirty water motor tax, VAT and property tax which will never be used to provide local services. Everyone not just those using public water supply’s are paying like sheep. As for the expert commission it has already ruled, its chairman joe OToole has today stated that he wants to see revenue collecting money on behalf of Irish water. That is the expert option from a union leader handpicked by FF and FG to stall this issue because in nine months time people won’t remember what promises FF made to voters.
O’ Toole’s comments on this matter were disgusting.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/central-taxation-not-enough-to-pay-for-water-o-toole-says-1.2705238
Central taxation is not enough to pay for water services, former senator Joe O’Toole, who will chair the expert commission to examine the future of water charges, has said.
“We’re trying to resolve a problem which has emerged from the democratic process.”
So we no longer live in a democracy as they are intent on ignoring the will of the people.
“We have to find a solution that will have enough sugar on it to make the medicine go down easily.”
So basically the decision of this commission is a foregone conclusion.
This is going to lead to a stand off between the Irish people versus the Irish state and the EU. Why won’t they at the very least give us a referendum to ensure Irish Water remains in public ownership. The political class have sold off everything we have of value – oil/gas, fish, the ESB, Bord Gais, Aer Lingus, the Lotto etc. etc. We are NOT going to let them sell off our water too so they can sell it back to us at ever increasing cost. Enough.
Time to let ff/fg….we remember what they said….lying crooked vermin
Party poopers.
Irish water can go to hell as I said before when god sends me a bill for water that’s when ill pay as we already pay
Merkel holding Kenny by the throat. That picture just about sums it up.
No more water bills…. that’s a pity, they were handy for starting the fire…
They can ram it up their
I feel bad that I disobeyed the law and didn’t pay.. Not sure if I should pay…OK, I don’t even have the money
what law? theres no actual ‘law’ on the Irish statuew books that says you have to pay Irish Water a single penny. so why are you feeling bad?
No more water bills? Why are they coming next week to install water meter in county cork ?
In other news the Irish government have begun floating pipes in the sky to bring clean filtered air to every house in the country……..
Meanwhile in rural Ireland the people continue to pay for their water and waste water disposal as they always have.
Meanwhile, every tax payer in the Country continues to pay for their water, as they always have.
Water bill was fair
Much more unfair is the property tax which everyone accepts Pity all the demonstrations were to end the wrong tax
Anyway they will just sneak the water charges into the property charge and nobody will notice
If you have such a problem with it, move to a city where the higher density of people equals better infrastructure. Some people really can’t understand that it costs a fraction of the price per user to run a water pipe to an apartment block in a city than it does to one random house in the middle of nowhere.
Water Bill is unfair, seeing as we already pay for it. and property tax is taken by revenue which means no one has a say in whether they pay it or not.
If Revenue gets involved in IW, it can no longer be privatised as it would realistically be a “Tax” we are paying.
This Government will do everything in it`s power to make sure Revenue doesn`t get involved whilst still trying to get us to pay for it, good luck with that Enda BTW.
And? What’s your point Mick?
My point is everyone should pay for their water or everyone shouldn’t pay for their water. Whatever happens equality for the entire population should be at the heart of it.
John, you are correct about property tax, it’s seldom ever commented on here on the Journal, and what’s worse is an average family home in Dublin or other large urban areas around the country is paying a awful lot more in that tax than bigger or similar properties in more rural parts of the country regardless of income. Daylight robbery . . . .
John003. Don’t wait for someone to start a Movement. Start one yourself.
Everyone already pays for water Mick, and have always done so. Hope that helps, seeing as you seem to find this simple fact so hard to comprehend.
Mick are people like you thick. Why do you keep missing the main point that we pay for our water already though general taxation?
And Vincent you must be even thicker if you don’t realise people in rural Ireland have always paid for their water and also pay their taxes. Double taxation if you were of your mindset. .
Ray, in fairness most people are too busy working to pay their flaming mortgages to start any movement, the fact it’s collected by revenue makes it virtually impossible to change !
You say the property is much more unfair. Well, I resisted it for as long as I could, but the still only charge the once, unlike water.
Well Mick, if you feel hard done by, do something about it and go and protest about it. You are already benefiting from the water protesters who got this corruption stamped out.
How exactly have I benefitted from it. I continue to pay for my water. To be honest up until 2 years ago I never had a problem paying for my water. It was just another bill. It never really dawned on me the urban dwellers get it for free or through your taxes as you put it. I have being in contact with my local TD who is a prominent cabinet minister and he/she has assured me you lot will be paying for your water as well within a few years. Hopefully this is not another empty political promise.
we ALL pay for water, we always have.
water bills are anything but fair. Theyre low now because of the hard work the R2W and AAA and other protesters have done and the pressure theyve brought. Just wait until the cap is lifted and the charges come back in. yopul being getting screwed for money so hard youl be collecting rain water in saucepans just ot save on bills. And charges only go up. Join the fihgt. Water charges are the one way we can get back at the Govt whove been imposing neo liberal hardship on us for years now claiming its for our ‘own goo’. , its not.
Was this article written by an Irish water employee ? . Your claim of 63% payment in 2015. Is then discredited by the 53% payment for the same year . What happened is that some people paid one bill and stopped over the remaining billing cycle .
Have not paid this double billing and will not pay until the charge on VAT and motor tax is removed.
This is a disgraceful article. The European Commission issued an opinion, nothing more than an opinion and the likes of the Journal are stating this as pure fact. This is an opinion and it is completely wrong. Journal proving they are part of bias media connected to the establishment!!
Property Tax is a scam too!
Don’t forget the majority of people who are not paying the IW bills, haven’t claimed the €100 grant. (I’m sure there are a few who have received the grant & not paid the bells). Also while we are not paying IW, we do pay for the water structure, through TAX.
Veolia ran the Luas until Irish water was created. They then handed the Luas over to Transdev who are under their control. Veolia went after the bigger fish in Ireland ie. Irish Water where more money could be made to return to their buddies in France. VIVA LA FRANCE.
Well the people who have received the €100 grants should definitely pay their bill. Otherwise they should be made give it back.
They never sent me the 100 euro that they promised. They could find me with their bills but not with the 100. I want my 100. If there are no more bills going out then what are the staff in the account dept doing all day.
Why would you even want the 100 quid trap?
Expert commission need to work out how to make everyone pay. Let me help ! we have always paid for water through taxation and still are, if you are with a private water scheme you are now paying for water twice now add in Irish water charges you are now paying for water three times over and they wonder why people are annoyed. A fixed charge of €200 per household every year will raise enough money to do all the works that will be required.
the so called ‘independent’ #WaterCommision set up to solve the mystery of what to do with #IrishWater.. not so independent at all it seems. Aside from the utterly discredited Joe ‘Pat Mustard’ O Toole, the board also includes one -#Peter_Peacock of #WaterScotland,
#Gritta_Nottelman who works for a PRIVATE Dutch Water Company
and #Xavier_Leflaive of the #OECD who firmly believes in water pricing in all sectors, domestic, agricultural and industrial.
THIS is the kind of ‘independence you are going to get from the FineGael/ Fianna Fail coalition.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/07/05/they-all-must-go/
The Eu should listen to the pod cast about Irish water from Ray Earle the international water Association Expert. The interview was on Sunday 03/07/2016. Check out RTE Radio1 pod cast.
This Week \Water fines
I just can’t believe that water charges were even an issue let alone THE foremost topic during the election. What an embarrassment, its the least of our worries.
None. Try living without water. You muppet.
Filthy rotten blatant corruption is most definitely high priority in our list of worries. It cannot be tolerated in any shape or form, otherwise everything else goes down the pan. Jesus.
open your eyes then. Water charges are a big part of the issues, Austerity for example. Also the issue of PRIVITISATION . IW is being totally set up with privitisation as the ultimate goal. If you cant see the problem with that then you need to go away and take another look.
have your say