Because drinking results in fighting , drink driving accidents, people coming into work hangover, domestic abuse etc. But it’s great Craic down the pub

Prop Joe, there are laws to deal with all of those issues (with the exception of hangovers), enforce existing laws before making new ones.

because as usual in this country, it’s the governments knee jerk reaction to tackling something that spiralled out of control decades ago.

instead of tackling the issue of binge drinking culture here in Ireland, the easier way is to increase prices. They have zero interest in tackling the causes of the drinking culture. So it will never change.

Look at Spain or Portugal or other countries, where the alcohol prices are about 1/4 of what they are here. They don’t have a major binge drinking problem like we do. So clearly it’s not about pricing.

They have a cafe culture, where you can buy a beer or a wine in a cafe to eat along with some food. Young people socialise in that setting over there. As a result they are eating along with drinking and not drinking so much. Yet they are still able to have a great time!

In 2005 (i think), a proposal was made to introduce such a cafe licence, but of course it was voted against in the Dail. I wonder how many publican TD’s voted that day? ;)

There are many forms of political corruption in this country, not just what was seen on RTE Investigates on Monday night

I see a new black market for smuggling on the horizon.

If only it was a tax that would make sense. It is actually a profit increasing exercise for those that sell alcohol and stops competition along with choice.
It will do more to help off licence businesses to stay open that were going close because they can’t compete with supermarkets.
Detrimental to new beers entering the market too.

…Because Fine Gael and Labour say so!

Miguel you’re not getting the correlation between cause and effect here. The Spanish and Portuguese don’t need controls because they don’t have an alcohol problem. In Ireland we have such an insane problem with alcohol that most people are completely unaware of how absurdly ridiculous it is that the whole country is up in arms about a price increase and the only real change is that supermarkets aren’t allowed to lose money on sales. That the more moderate in our society are this worked up about alcohol indicates exactly how big our problem is here and it’s frightening.

I would like to see the stats on the effect of the FF introduced reduced opening times for off licences, supposedly that measure was to reduce binge and underage drinking.

I suspect it made F’all difference, just like this price increase all it was is a gift to publicans to encourage punters back to the high stool.
Business put before people as usual.

@ Kal Ipers

It will hit the off-licences just as much. Cans of standard larger and once low priced wine will be raised.
FG promised to get people back into the pubs in their 2011 manifesto. Thats all this is a way to look after their friends and up the state tax take.

@Teddington but that was exactly my point. The government aren’t interested in tackling the root cause of the problem we have here. Increasing the price isn’t going to fix it. Introducing a Cafe Culture may be a start though. Even if that were introduced, it would take years, but still better to start sometime. A price increase just won’t do it.

Not in my house it doesn’t and the people that do this will just get suspended sentences.

@unitedpeople
You are missing the point. The off licences stock costs won’t increase but their profit will. They can sell less and make more money. Many pubs own an off licence in small towns so gain both ends.

I don’t think there’s any easy fix like introducing a cafe culture and everything just goes away. We’re obsessed with alcohol, it’s engrained into us. You could conceivably have a bigger protest about this than we did about Irish Water or the Corruption in politics yet all we’ll hear is people complaining that their booze is going up in price. I find it very saddening to see that our priorities haven’t shifted at all.

So if I understand right, the tin of beer from Aldi or Lidl that might have cost 1 Euro will cost 1-60.
Will the Supermarket get the extra profit or is it a tax increase.?
They will never get me into a pub to pay 5 Euros for a pint of beer anyway.
Is the extra charge for the cheap wine from Aldi going into Aldi’s pocket or the state.?
I usually pay about 8 Euros in Aldi or Lidl for a good quality wine,so will this also increase in price.??

The supermarket get the extra profit. So in theory they can now make over 100% profit on alcohol.

So its only another whack on the poorest citizens who have a tight budget and buy the cheap beer and wine.?
Like their water taxes.
What’s new.?

Will the people who bought the €1 can still buy it or will they go for the better stuff that was always a bit more expensive? I’ve bought Grafenwalder Weissbier in lidl every now and again because its cheap but now Franziskaner is virtually the same price I’ll go for that instead because its much nicer.

Good post Miguel!

I drink and I’ve never done any of the things on that list. Have you?

The local pub wouldn’t want to be relying on you to stay open.

It is impossible to enforce must laws til the deed is done. Alcohol causes a lot of misery in society. A slab of 24 500ml cans are 24euro in the local supermarket. What kind of person is this aimed at? Responsible drinkers?

@prop joe
You do understand people don’t have to drink them on their own and in one go?
They also sell toilet roll in 24 packs what do you think is going on there?

Toilet roll doesn’t lead to driving under the influence, domestic violence etc does it. Alcohol is a dangerous substance.

Before living somewhere where a can of beer from an offie was around €3.50 I would have said that minimum pricing is an awful idea and punishes the responsible.
There’s definitely a balance to be struck. Too expensive just encourages stills, too cheap (no matter how some want to deny it) means that abuse increases.

why wasnt this in the budget? why are all taxpayers footing the bill for those who abuse booze again?

We are here to think for you now shhh and pay the tax.

Maybe we should reduce the tax on tobacco then? Sure nobody ever beat the sh!! out of someone because they just had a smoke?

Tax isn’t the whole of the point.

we should legalise and tax marijuana. a country with common sense would. much dialogue here now hopefully Ireland might become a leader in this.

Another tax! I hate this government. I thought that Scotland tried to do this but it was stopped by the EU? Or is it one rule for us etc.

Raising the price would actually make me drink more.

While I’m not a drinker this is yet another regressive tax which will hit the poorer in society and leave the wealthy completely unscathed…… Labour have completely abandoned their base. If people didnt realise it already they are complete fools if they havent realised it now……. Alcohol is one of the biggest causes of our social problems and Fine Gael have totally ignored it in order to line publicans pockets…. Disgraceful…….

This move will only lead to the return of cross-border shopping and booze cruises. Ferries and Newry rubbing their hands in glee!!!

As far as I’m aware VRT is another illegal tax the Government charge us but pay a fine to the EU to be allowed away with it. So I take it they’ll go ahead with this but the tax payer will send a cheque off to Brussels every year for the privilege of being ripped off everytime they buy beers in an off licence..

Government are idiots

You might be jesting here Ron but this is actually the case in many previous duty increases in years gone by. Consumption went up!

An excerpt from a friend’s (Séan Billings) article:
“From 1987 to 2006 when the groceries order was rescinded, the Irish government increased duty on all alcohol twice and levied additional increases on spirits and cider. During that time, despite these increases and the inability
of retailers to lower the price through below cost selling, alcohol sales in Ireland rose from 9.77 litres of pure alcohol per adult, to a peak of 14.22 litres in 2002, falling to 13.36 litres by 2006.

A minimum price was in place for just under twenty years. It was increased several times and during that time we saw the most dramatic increase in alcohol sales in the history of the state.”

For the last few years, consumption has been steadily falling. Even without minimum pricing, we will hit the OECD average in a few years anyway.

This is just being seen to do something for the sake of it. It’s lazy governent using a blunt instrument which is proven worldwide not to work. Except in the remote province on Saskatchewan, Canada where it actually did work. They had to skip over the rest of the world to get the results they wanted though.

The idea of this is to reduce alcohol intake among problem drinkers. The issue here is that problem drinkers will drink regardless of the price and since they are often below the poverty line, all it does is hurt already poverty stricken families and push them further in to debt.

The only people that drink less when prices increase are moderate drinkers who drink very little to begin with.

Tobacco products are heavily taxed too. In terms of actual harm to society it’s something of a toss up between alcohol and tobacco. I doubt anyone would have a moan about tax on tobacco….

Sad that the little keyboard bi-tches as usual don’t have an argument that makes any sense but manage to thumb away.

By default your silence says “we drink – we don’t smoke – don’t get in the way of our drinking”.

Go to Portugal and you can get a decent bottle of wine for €2 and you don’t see people falling around p!ssed you can also drink at any hour of day yet we can’t see here that the more you control what time people can and cant drink leads to binge drinking it’s not the price that needs changing but the regulation

I’ll have to compensate with extra drugs :-/

Neenee go to portugal or spain and you wont’ see anyone except the English and Irish falling about the place pissed. We have a problem, they don’t, it’s a nonsense comparison.

It’s like saying that America doesn’t need gun control because Switzerland doesn’t have gun control and things are fine there.

So are you saying that if we increase the price of alcohol it will solve our problem?its people’s attitude towards alcohol that needs to change.throughout history if you try and regulate or restrict people’s use of a substance it makes them want it even more,the silly drinking laws and times we have here add to the problem

It’s one point in an overall approach that is needed. With a little luck it has an impact in the short term and then when the longer term issues like alcohol sponsorship and advertising are introduced this minimum pricing won’t be required anymore.

Higher prices will only penalise those of us who drink responsibly and perhaps buy a couple of bottles of wine to enjoy at the weekend or with a meal.

Punish by how much? If it’s only a few bottles of wine a week then is it really bankruptcy?!

If you’re bills are so high and times are so tough it might be time to knock the booze on the head Kathleen. I think it’s frightening how insanely addicted to alcohol we all are and we don’t even realise it.

That’s rubbish that we’re all ‘addicted’ to alcohol Teddington. Every country has people who have problems with alcohol and people who don’t!

Teddington, if you or anyone else has a problem with drink, don’t expect me to pay for it.

Are prices in the North also going up in tandem.??

I have no addiction problems with alcohol Ronan but you already pay for those that do though your taxation for the health service etc. If you drink enough at home for this minimum pricing to have a massive impact on your finances then you already drink too much and this should be a wake up call.

Teddington,
I would be interested to hear your views on why we have a binge drinking problem in this country…
Do you believe that price is a factor?
I don’t think that it is. The strange scenes of fighting, falling, puking and riding on the streets of temple bar or any larger towns main streets on Saturday nights is mainly fueuled by OVERPRICED alcohol purchased over the bar in pubs and clubs.

Figuring out why this problem persists in Ireland will be the first step to solving it.
Price increase causes: a) purchase from
Other cheaper sources (black market/ homemade), b) Abuse of other cheaper substances.

So while the stats may show a reduction of ‘purchased’ alcohol, it won’t affect addiction levels.

I welcome advertising controls and calories marked on containers.

Blaming alcohol abuse on high prices is ridiculous. Norway has more expensive alcohol than Ireland and doesn’t have a drinking culture, while alcohol is cheaper in England and they have it worse.

John all very fair points raised and the truth is that the fundamental reasons for our drinking is that we grow up with it and accept it as normal. I know a lot of people that have a healthy relationship with alcohol here in Ireland but by European standards they would be considered to be very heavy drinkers. As long as it is accepted and at times revered for us to stagger around making fools of ourselves (all in the name of banter/craic) things won’t change.

I agree that price is certainly not the driving factor but perhaps this will act as a release valve and maybe it will stem the tide until long term ideas like alcohol sponsorship are promotion are curbed. This will be a very long battle which will require many different approaches before the right one is found but I certainly don’t think that anyone that is actually drinking in moderation will be too put out by these increases.

@Kathleen. If you have to buy alcohol in Spain and bring it to ireland to drink you have a drinking problem.

If you can go to the pub and not drink you probably don’t have a problem. But if you have to drink every time you are in a pub or can not be a designated driver for a night, time to look at your drinking habits. Everyone should go to the and not drink for a night. It’s frightening how locked people get.

It really is a ludicrous argument.

Nobody goes to spain for the cheap alcohol. If you do then maybe minimum pricing is a good thing for you…. If you biy it while you HAPPEN TO BE THERE then you don’t represent the majority of the country.

The notion that you;d go to Spain IN ORDER to buy cheap booze is just bull.

And Stephen, Spain and France don’t have a binge drinking problem, so perhaps the price is not the cause of our problems.. It is culture that is the issue.

If you think about it, all minimum pricing does us penalise lower income drinkers, but the rich can drink away to their hearts content!!

Agree John but let’s face it, the whole binge drinking culture argument just provides a handy smokescreen for the govt to pretend to be doing this in the name of health while raking in the extra mullah. Most people in Ireland do not drink to excess, I would say

Moderate drinkers don’t cause social problems, all smokers increase their risk of getting ill.

Ya I agree. Try buying a drink in Sweden!!

Probably explains why so many Swedes stock up in Estonia.

Actually in the past few years the price of a pint in Amsterdam has gone from an avg.€3.30 to about €7.30. Imagine that happening here?? They didn’t even flinch.

A pint of beer in amsterdam was already €4 back when the Euro was introduced and thats almost 14 years ago. I was working in a bar the day the Euro came in.

Sorry Mark but if you’re that touchy about someone suggesting that you drink less it sounds like you already have a problem.

Just out of interest can you show me how the moderate drinker will be out of pocked for €500 a year because of this?

its my business so you thinking it makes me sound like I have a problem is irrelevant, to answer your question.

If someone buys cheap 8 cans a week now has to pay €19 instead of €9 (remember cans are €2.40 min 500ml compared to 330ml 1.60 bottles) its actually an outrageous increase.

Its also completely unworkable, the main flaw being how are the gov going to collect the extra tax, when beer that is already that price won’t have extra tax collected, whats to say cheap beer is actually just expensive beer now and the off license withholds the tax on formerly cheap beer

Sorry Mark, I had to give you a red thumb for the “unsafe homebrew” comment. Homebrewed beer and wine can’t be unsafe. At worst, it can taste like crap and often it can be better than a commercial product.

Unless you specifically meant home distillation which can be dangerous as well as illegal but the danger is more in the process than the end result. Most stories of people going blind etc are because of chemical additives mixed in to make it cheaper.

Homebrewed beer and wine are perfectly safe to consume.