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TÁNAISTE AND MINISTER for Social Protection Joan Burton has this afternoon defended the introduction of short-form death certificates, claiming the new regulations would help families mourning the loss of a loved one.
The short-form death certs, which do not have to include the cause of death, had been criticised as likely to stifle public debate as well as statistical information on suicides.
However, the Labour leader this afternoon released a statement clarifying a number of issues.
The only change being made is that people may, where they feel it necessary, obtain a short-form certificate which will not include the cause of death.
This new option would “in no way affect the Register of Deaths or impact in any way on the compilation, extraction and publication of vital statistics,” the Tánaiste confirmed.
‘It’s not something to be hidden, it’s something to be talked about’
Critics of the new regulations included Terence Casey, coroner for east and south Kerry, who has in the past been vocal on the issue of suicide rates in rural Ireland.
Speaking to Newstalk this morning, Casey had this to say about the measures.
It means there’ll be no record of the amount of people who [take their own lives.]
I’ve been speaking openly for the last couple of years about suicide, to try to bring it home to people that it’s not something to be hidden, it’s something to be talked about, to reduce the amount of deaths by suicide.
This, I think, will totally and absolutely reverse what I’ve been doing.
Concerns had been raised that the short-form certificate, without a cause of death, would cause difficulties for life insurance companies, for example.
The Department of Social Protection, in response to a query from TheJournal.ie, said this evening that it would be up to the family concerned and other involved parties to decide whether the cause of death was relevant information.
The question as to whether a short form or long form certificate is sufficient for the particular service is a matter between the person requiring the service and the body or person providing the service.
The question as to which type of certificate is required for life insurance claims and estate management is a matter for the parties concerned.
Tánaiste Burton did, however, cite education as one area in which reporting the cause of death would not be necessary, under the new regulations.
[The new short-form cert] is to address the ongoing concerns from members of the public and public representatives that, where the death certificate must be presented at schools, for example, the cause of death can cause distress to loved ones in cases involving suicide, violent death and death from substance abuse.
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the goons don’t certainly hide the cost of them , if you want 4 or 5 copies at the same time you get charged 20 Euro a pop even though they are just run off a printer, a very grubby fee
They should include PPS numbers on birth and death certs, would be a great help to family historians in years to come as a way of proving family connections.
Government in a nutshell…..Hiding suicide figures that in many cases their policies contribute to.
Spot on. Another smoke screen to prevent the reality of life in Ireland today being exposed.
There is no appetite for transparency or honesty any more – we seem to have caved in and surrendered to all the human characteristics which were once thought to be anathema. The Christian religious teaching should not be disregarded just because its institutionalised administrative entities are corrupt and abhorrent. I’m not religious in any way, but the story of Jesus still remains one of the most inspiring and beautiful stories I’ve ever heard, however implausible.
Nowadays, everything is hidden, swept under the carpet or distorted to such a point where no one can discern what the truth is – lies seem to be the only relevant currency in our daily lives and in international relations. We lie about everything.
For me, a concious living entity, the underlying reality of my existence here on planet earth is one of despair and sadness despite how positively I may present myself to world.
In my opinion, our societal constructs are to blame – unless, of course, this is the nature of existence, which, if true, is something I’d rather not be part of.
TLDR; Everyone and everything is full of shit.
Just like the unemployment figures, they never quote the increase in taxpayers and just the decrease in unemployment numbers. They don’t like the truth, hide it instead and no guilty conscience for their Austerity measures!
The CSO will retain the original data re cause of death so how is it being hidden? From what I read in the article, these certs are an option, not a replacement, for those who wish to avoid disclosing a cause of death.
The thing is that the information is contained on a public register, which means that the organisation that you may want not to disclose, can gain access to the information that is contained on the long certificate anyway.
Is this not the families of the deceased the ones hiding the numbers? The Government is merely giving people a choice.
It is because there is no medical prognosis for suicide, it being asphyxiation or any other life taking term used.
Can I just add for the record that where suicide is published, more suicides occur. So this may be the first move on an all out ban on media coverage of suicides.
Suicide has always been there, we just hear it more often now because people feel hopeless, no future, nothing to look forward too. You are right that is what the governments have done they have put money, austerity , bankers, bond holders , the EEC , before the people. Could it be they have stepped over the suicide victims for their weekly reward of a cheque for creating this life style. Black dark days of no bright future would make any one unhappy down to the depts of the marrow in their bones. Unfortunately their solution is to end it all. That is why suicides have quadupled in recent years along with the cut backs in mental health.
Giving up your life ain’t worthed for this show of selfish w**kers.
Untrue, misadventure, self inflicted, death by own hand etc.. all coroners definitions. One symptom of suicide is always dominate change in personality, disinterest in usual interests, no interest in personal appearance, stays in bed all day that their day becomes their night.
Might be best if advert campaign was on telly detailing symptoms to look out for. Unfortunately suicide becomes the normal state of mind of the victim contemplating it.
What….shut up
If you have money the doctors and coroner will not record death as a result of cocaine abuse for the wealthy. A lot of rich people have died as a result of cocaine and deaths were recorded as heart failure. It saves the family some embarrassment but is not the truth. One rule for the poor another for the rich.
You mean that they have died as a result of poisoning. Cocaine abuse is just an opinion like alcohol abuse. You can’t put an opinion on a death cert
Don’t mention it and it doesn’t happen….
Why is it every time this woman comments on anything I get the image of a braying donkey in my head ?
Haha. .cheers paddy
Surprised the church doesn’t have a death equivalent of their “Birth and Baptismal” certs, that says whether you got into heaven.
That’s a brilliant idea. They could have a hatch like in willie wonka for a ‘good’ going to heaven after the rapture and ‘bad ‘ going to burn in the fiery pits of hell with a certificate after assessment. Could be a nice little earner.
@Noble Gas. Haha. Already tried I think…Martin Luther got a bit p’d off re something similar a few years ago….
Cards, Congratulations from the pope and charge to sign it by local P.P.! Your XXXXX, just entered heaven and there’ll be a levy on it!
I want my death cert to read that I died of a Tuesday.
Short term death certs! Labour!!!
God u can’t be letting people know who died at the hands of a bad government ! Sure that isn’t good for votes or business ! Just take away why a man died ! And the banks can keep the threatening letters rolling tru letter boxes for payments on mortgages that people haven’t got
We have to maintain the fantasy that all is well in this cess pit of corruption. That people dont take their own lives at the despair their lives have become. Massage, manipulate, hide, spin and confuse the real figures at all costs. She makes me sick at every utterance she makes.
Can this so called, lady of the night , ever dissappear into the night as she is living in the dark, darkness is for bats , now she certainly fits the criteria
Not sure I agree with this. My father died of heart disease. I want the right to remove the cause of death or change the cause of death to something more dramatic like “died while saving family from shark” or “sucked into an event horizon of a black hole.”
The most frightening statistic behind deaths by suicide is there at 2.5 times more people dying by suicide than road traffic accidents, yet the Government spends 11 times more on road safety than suicide prevention.
That about sums up our commitment to suicide prevention and mental health issues, so perhaps the Minister is right in trying to hide the true extent of suicide. It might be difficult for the families, but it must be a complete embarrassing for the Government.
I constantly hear families left behind when a loved one commits suicide on radio and television stating that it’s massively traumatic for them to receive the death-cert and read the cause of death whether it was apparent to them or not. The legislation is simply an attempt to lessen the load on those families and I haven’t heard one victim left behind publicly condemn this action. It seems that in this toxic political climate the opposition will stoop to no limits so low to attack the government.
@Adam, her time would be much better spent standardizing how deaths due to suicide are being recorded by coroners at inquests. Come to think of it, most families attend an inquest when their grief is still very raw, and some of the evidence that is presented at inquests can be far more traumatic than seeing the cause of death on a death certificate.
This woman and the Labour Party as so out if touch she done away with the death grant which some people needed.
Labours Way
Hold out for the pension Joan it will be a big one.
10 people a week committed suicide last year, that is the official figure and if you add in the deliberate deaths by drivers killing themselves or people drowning themselves etc it could be double that figure. What do the politicians do — they try and rename it so it looks good on a report of their term of office. Shame on them.
It’s a complex subject yet people who do commit suicide feel let down by life, politicians, systems, mental health services etc they despair and feel deceived by some people in power, now Joan Burton can’t even be honest about their deaths. Let’s honour these people and tell the truth for once.
Beautifully put.
is there nothing else she could be doing?
It looks as if Joan Burton is perusing personal agendas with birth certs and now death certs. As far as I know she was adopted, but no clue to the connection with suicide
Surely not, no one would give Joan away.
*pursuing and not perusing. Joan Burton is adopted and this undoubtedly had an impact on the law which makes naming of fathers compulsory on birth certs. As there has not been a public outcry about death certs, I imagine there must be a private agenda
It doesn’t say “suicide” on death certainly. It gives the cause of death, which is in turn given by a doctor in a “cert of cause of death” e.g. Asphyxia
So it could be accidental or deliberate
Taking it off the records is a calculated step towards avoiding taking responsibility for duty of care for the people of this country. If the real numbers of those who are suiciding were recorded this epidemic may begin to get the attention it needs. That’s without even going into the vast numbers who attempt suicide but don’t complete.
The coroner has a hard enough time declaring suicide on a death cert due to the government and high court, hence why so many are recorded as miss adventure…..
Death Certificates where suicide is the cause of death the addition of the words “by hanging” can cause distress bit.ly/1om4OgD
what the link between education and death certificates im missing?
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