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THE LAST MASS solely for men has been heard in Limerick city, with a group of men claiming that they have been “relegated to the second division” and will now have to join the regular Mass with women.
For 150 years, men in Limerick enjoyed their own exclusive Mass, from which women have in the past been turned away.
Now due to falling congregations, members of the Archconfraternity of the Redemptorist Order in Limerick city have been requested to attend the earlier 7.15pm Mass with all parishioners, instead of having their own 8pm Mass.
Tim McGrath, from Corbally, said they feel as if “we’ve been relegated to the second division, to shared Mass status”.
“Our Mass has been taken away from us. Our Monday evening Mass was our space and we wanted the status quo to remain. It’s a sad situation and very disappointing,” McGrath said.
We were not given an opportunity to discuss this – there was no debate, no vote, nothing. The majority of the people don’t want any change. What a lovely present for our 150th anniversary.
Up to 60 men have regularly attended the 8pm Monday mass in recent times – down from thousands each night at its religious zenith.
Father Seamus Enright, rector of the Redemptorists – one of the few religious orders to have survived in Limerick following the closure of the Dominicans, the Franciscans and the Jesuits – said the move is “sad, but we have to be realistic.”
While having a Mass just for men “could be viewed as a bit anachronistic in this modern age,” he said, he also acknowledged that “for many people it has proved to be a big break with tradition and a disruption in their lives.
“Others knew it was inevitable,” he continued. “It is the end of an era because they won’t exclusively have their own Mass, but it is the next natural step as our own numbers are down as well, and we have to adopt a policy of rationalisation.”
“Having two Masses on a Monday night just did not make sense. The Archconfraternity is directed by the Redemptorists. There is no distinction between us – we are one and the same,” he said.
Ger O’Brien, who attended the men’s Mass for 63 years, said their Mass was also a social outlet for many.
“It was a lovely men’s club. Everyone would congregate in the church yard afterwards and talk about sport. Men like to meet on their own and have their own discussions, the same as women like to meet on their own, but we don’t talk about crochet or knitting,” he said.
Sean O’Lochrain, aged 90 and a minister of the Eucharist, said he has been left “heartbroken” by the move.
“It’s very sad. I’ve been coming here all my life, with my father and nine brothers. I’m heartbroken, really. There was a time when 10,000 men would attend the Archconfraternity Masses – thousands each night. But the priests are all old men now and so are we.”
Joe Kelly, from Richmond Park in Corbally, said he felt “rather nostalgic and a bit lonesome, because this is the end of a wonderful era.
It was like an institution really; we’ll never see the likes of it again.
Tony Fitzsimons, from Ballinacurra Gardens, said they were “reared with the Archconfraternity” as young boys in Limerick city.
“It was either the Confraternity or the back of the brush, if we didn’t go. Now, we’ll greatly miss it and are sad to see it go,” he said.
Church-goer Richard O’Connor said he would have preferred if it were “just left to die out, because there’s only a handful of us left. The youngest [man] here has to be 65.”
However, not everyone was opposed to the move.
“Mass is Mass,” said Rosaleen Collins who attended the earlier Mass this Monday evening.
“Before you couldn’t get in the door with the queues of people coming here. But Mass is Mass regardless what date or time it’s held. With everything in life, there’s only a certain time-span in it, the same as with ourselves.”
William Dillon who also attended the earlier Mass, said: “It’s not a good sign of the times that the numbers have gone down, but I don’t think there should be a Mass just for men. I don’t think it’s right. It’s totally ridiculous, in my eyes.
Do they not want to see progress in the Church? There should be women priests – they have to do something to reinvigorate the Church.
“I think the number of young priests joining has fallen because priests aren’t allowed to get married and I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t be allowed to get married. It’s not a sin – definitely not.”
Once hailed as the largest “Archconfraternity in the world”, the Limerick group was described in the past as being “a splendid bulwark against the inroads of evil literature, and bad plays and pictures” and a “moderating influence in preventing unwise actions and dangerous trends and excesses.”
The Confraternity was founded by the Redemptorist Fathers soon after their development as a community in Limerick city in 1867.
By 1880, they counted 4,200 members and this grew to 7,000 members by 1918.
Is this a real story?? It’s like a script from Fr Ted
@Trevor croft: Well they have been relegated to the second division of mass!
@Michele Tobin: and that’s nowhere near as good as a class 2 relic…
@skeyes: THey had to move the mass to another parish because it wasn’t doing enough business.
They lost something that was important to them. Something that was doing no harm to anyone else. Something that they were proud of and something that they looked forward to every week. Easy slag them and make fun cause we are all so young and modern on this news site. I for one feel sorry for these ageing men and i feel sorry when any tradition falls.
@p kilgannon: agreed! It served its purpose well and we can only feel a level of sympathy for the men. However the Mens’ Shed idea is up and running and very successful in many counties.
@John Campbell: this was to these men a type of men’s shed that had survived 150 years.
@p kilgannon: I agree to an extent, but bear in mind that these same old men are the ones feeling that the main thing they’ve lost is that they now have to join the rest of us mere mortals an women at our own mass.
There’s a pretty big dose of superiority complex going on here. More akin to golf-club sexism
@p kilgannon: You could say the same about slave owners back in the day.
@Paddy Downey: Maybe some have a superiority complex but most are just sad because it is the end of a long tradition which they were probably introduced to by their own fathers. I doubt you would find one female of that generation who is opposed to the male mass.
@Rob Cahill: No I wouldn’t say that about slave owners at all at all. Iv no idea why you are comparing slave owners to these men. Very strange thing to say.
@p kilgannon: what I don’t understand is why a priest can’t just say a second mass! It’s not like you would have to pay them overtime! I mean it sounds like a ridiculous thing to me but putting that aside what are the reasons behind not just saying a separate mass for these few men? Surely it wouldn’t be monetary?
@p kilgannon: tradition: some terrible practices have hidden behind “tradition”. It’s the worst reason of all to keep doing anything!
@Deborah Behan: Try reading the article again. Its fairly clear to be honest. Masses have been declining in every rural parish for years. 20 years ago there was four masses in my parish every week and three priests. Two masses and one priest now.
@Dave Fleming: Yes Dave some traditions are awful and disgusting. Others such as the one we are discussing here are not.
@p kilgannon: I tend to agree. Nothing wrong with it up to a point. Definitely time to move on and if the mass hasn’t given them the grace to do so, it hasn’t served them well… No place in today’s society I’m afraid.
@Louis Jacob: Ah ya, look it, it was always going to die out sooner rather than later as will so many other traditions. Still its sad for these men though and change isn’t easy when you are 80 years of age plus.
@p kilgannon: “Easy slag them and make fun” – isn’t it? I’m having a great time with this!
@p kilgannon: I fail to see the difference between this and, say, a male-only golf club, or the 40-foot swimming area being male only 40 years ago and so on.
Stopping women from attending simply because they are women is the definition of sexism, intentional or otherwise.
I was more amazed to hear that something like this still existed TBH
Going to mass with women is being stomped on and being relegated to the “second division”. My heart bleeds.
Waterford whispers!
@Veronica: they needn’t be worried I doubt any women are going to be troubling them!
@Deborah Behan: what’s the big deal? there are plenty of womens groups where I would be turned away from.
Is there anything to be said for saying another mass?
Mass Extinction!
@Ted Logan: Solid.
sometimes i think I’m actually living through an episode of Fr Ted
I don’t know, it’ll be letting women into bars next. Down with this sort of thing!
@dorothy giselsson: do they let women drive unsupervised in Limerick too?
Political Correctness strikes once again.
@winston smith: read the article. It is simple logistics and nothing to do with political correctness
@domas1507: Hmmm, I think that might’ve been a joke.
@Fergal O’ Reilly: First our golf clubs, and now this.
@winston smith: it used to be “politically incorrect” to question the authority of the church. That turns out well…
Looks like they’ll have to spend big to get out of division 2 but at the same time be wary of the financial fair play regulations.
Redemptorists ..They give good Mass
@DeFonz: ‘ Mass’ where that word come from anyway.!! Mass murder, mass exodus, mass extinction, massive, mass hysteria, etc,etc,.
Dinosaurs! They’ll be lucky to get a one mass once a month in every county in about 20 years time. County themselves lucky if that’s the right word now.
@mickmc: I don’t think these lads will have much concerns about what’s happening in 20 years time
Those darn women again. You just can’t get away from them. They invade every part of your space. But this story is the last straw. It’s time for us men to take a stand against these folks of the ‘opposite’ sex
@Brian Jones: careful now with the mention of the ‘sex’ word…
@Brian Jones: as long as the women stay on their side and wear a veil, these lads’ll be grand
All male mass .. that doesn’t sound a bit creepy ..
According to an interview given by a Fr Enright on Newstalk, the men can still go to the earlier. mass at 7.15pm and meet up afterwards as usual. Of the 14 priests left there only five are under 70 and many of over 80.
@Aine O Connor: And in Dublin, there was only one ordination last year – I’m told!
@Aine O Connor: quite the cross section of modern life, eh?
@Aine O Connor: They could start a football league!
Was it a gay thing?
Mass in general will probably go that way on mass within the next 15 years.
It reminds me of Umm el-Qaab, an ancient religious site in ancient Egyptian city of Abydos, where pilgrims left of millions of religious offerings, pots of fruit and incense left as an offering to Osiris over the course of 100s of years. Then one day it stopped.
I’ve often wondered who was the last person to place an offering on that mound of clay pots.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0504/feature7/gallery4.html
Bloody great news! Welcome to the 21st century lads!
“It was a lovely men’s club. Everyone would congregate in the church yard afterwards and talk about sport. Men like to meet on their own and have their own discussions, the same as women like to meet on their own, but we don’t talk about crochet or knitting,” he said.
Well show’s you what these fossils know because women don’t talk about that either!! …. And can they not talk shite outside after a regular “second division” mass???
150 years? This reads like a parody, i’m shocked such backwards thinking pockets of society exists the last 150 years
Their o
@Life in no motion: Don’t be so shocked. Women of that generation are far more likely to talk about knitting than about sport.
God love them. The shame of now having to attend Mass with women.
@Cindy Crawford: Wait until they have to import a priest from somewhere in Africa!
@Michele Tobin: Yeah. The one with with…boo…hiss…wimmin. What is the world coming to. Fossils.
I have been on this planet for quite a while now and this is the first time I have heard of an all male mass.It certainly was a surprise at first but then after a few seconds reflection I wasn’t surprised at all. 150 yrs ago the Irish Catholic church dominated society and a bit like ISIS men held complete power over women. At mass men had the right hand side of the church to themselves with women and children to the left. Women had to dress as the church decreed ,no skirts and heads covered preferably with a mundane large headscarf. Men could have sex every night with their wives if they wanted without any efforts of contraception;just look at the enormous families of that time,up to the 1970s indeed. Church and state looked down on women as second class citizens and so it is no real surprise that men got their own mass and who knows what type of anti women indoctrination went on at the homilies.
@Tom Reilly: Tom 150 years ago men held power over women in every organisation and in every country not just the catholic church.
@p kilgannon: Yes but because of the catholic church they held it here for an extra century.
@p kilgannon: Surely as followers of Jesus the church should have stood up for women. But then again thousands of indoctrinated youths flocked to join the priesthood just like German youths like Pope Benedict flocked to join Hitler’s youth army. No need to elabourate on the outcome of such fascist ideology.
@Tom Reilly: The church should have done a lot of things differently, of course. I still feel sad for these men who have lost something important to them. The church plays a very important role in the lives of many men and women. That role is declining now and rightly so
@p kilgannon: Obviously the old church had no important role for women, unless you mean that they were allowed to clean the damp church floors while they were on their arthritic knees doing nothing anyway except thinking about crocheting some tripe for dinner.
I grew up in Co Limerick and I remember my father going to the Confraternity, when i was a child. Hes dead 30 years now.
And to everyone else this is progress. Feminists should be protesting outside Mass and Friday Prayers as you’d be hard pushed to find more blatant sexism than in Catholicism or Islam. Particularly the latter. At least Catholicism is slowly modernising
@Awkward Seal: Would you not protest them yourself?
Most feminists (well, not ‘liberal feminists’ I guess, in their desperation to be liked) have nothing but contempt for any Abrahamic religion. They are all outrageously sexist.
>At least Catholicism is slowly modernising
Well, I’m not hearing the Catholic church complaining after El Salvadore has imprisoned a young woman for having a miscarriage (pregnancy was the result of rapes), all because of their “strict” abortion laws.
@Awkward Seal: Progress but at what cost miss?
@Awkward Seal: slowly expiring….
Delighted. It was this same Redemptorist order that was responsible for the Limerick Jewish Pogrom at the start of the 20th Century. Between this Order’s racist past and sexist present, all based upon superstition and a book “written” by people who really didn’t understand the world at the time, I’m delighted to hear about another little crack in the Church.
“A splendid bulwark against the inroads of evil literature and bad plays”
Pity fuppin’ bout them. My heart bleeds
Wow! Never even new this sort of thing could happen let alone still went on. Down with this sort of thing!
A sad day for Limerick and wider Christian civilization in general.
Is there anything to be said for saying another mass ?
“But we don’t talk about crochet or knitting”… Ah lads!
They could become priests themselves. I believe there is a shortage.
@Con Murphy: For the same reason no one trains to be a steam train driver.
Lads. Set up a men’s shed and get over it!
There is no necessity to have Mass every day at all. Sunday Mass should suffice. Church of Ireland or Presbyterians do not have that and they get on the best. Once a week and leave it at that.
Of its time “Confraternity or the back of a brush if you didn’t go”…. wouldn’t happen today. Good luck lads. You can now have a new adventure!
Dont worry lads. It will soin be a mosque and u can go there 4 times a day
I do like a good long mass.
A degree of sympathy for these men it also appears to have been a social outlet..nothing wrong been in the co of men who want to practice their faith and have a. Chat after words instead of socialising in a pub..
I agree with the political correctness comment
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