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LAST UPDATE | 1 Feb 2021
THE CABINET SUB-COMMITTEE on Education will meet later this afternoon discuss the options being considered for this year’s Junior and Leaving Certificates.
Tomorrow will see the full Cabinet discuss the proposals with the Advisory Group tasked with plotting a course for the examinations also set to meet tomorrow, with Minister Simon Coveney stating some clarity could be brought to the situation then.
Today’s Cabinet sub-committee is set to begin its meeting at 4pm.
Among the options for the Leaving Cert include holding the exams in the traditional manner or repeating last year’s calculated grades system. A hybrid model of the two has also been suggested.
Speaking on RTÉ’s This Week programme yesterday, Taoiseach Micheál Martin said that “we may have news this week” but that officials want to ensure the proposals are watertight before there is an announcement.
“We do need to bring clarity to that, I accept there’s a lot of stress and anxiety out there but what is more important is that, when an announcement is made, that the ‘I’s are dotted he ‘T’s are crossed in terms of the proposals that the minister will be coming forward with,” he said.
The Taoiseach noted that the students due to the Leaving Cert this year missed almost three months of in-class teaching last year and have already missed a month this year.
Asked in those circumstances where it was fair to ask them to sit a full Leaving Cert examination, Martin said it is a “very important consideration”.
“We’ve heard the students voices very loudly in that respect and it cannot be obviously ignored. But there are different views from the wider student body and teachers generally in relation to this. But what is clear is we do need to bring clarity to reduce anxiety for students and their families,” he said.
Speaking in The Irish Examiner today, Martin said there are “quite a number of options” in relation to how the Leaving Cert proceeds and that “the precise options” are still being finalised.
“What’s key to the written exam is class time and class engagement between the teacher and the students. We have to take that reality into account and that’s exactly what’s being discussed now between the Minister and the union and students as well,” he said.
The government’s Advisory Group on planning for state examinations 2021 incudes representatives of students, parents, teachers, school leadership and management bodies, the State Examinations Commission (SEC) and the Department of Education.
The group has been meeting regularly to discuss the impact of ongoing school closures and the scope and form for examinations to take place.
The ASTI’s general secretary Kieran Christie said today that his union is of the view that the Leaving Cert should go ahead “insofar as is possible”.
“We’re consistent in our message that we believe that the Leaving Cert insofar as possible is their preferred option from an ASTI point of viewto go ahead,” he told RTÉ’s News at One.
“Once you stray away from the traditional examination it becomes very tricky indeed. Last year’s process of calculating grades for instance, we’re not convinced that that’s a system that could operate properly at all this year. And we’re not convinced for instance that it would reduce the stress and anxiety within the school community. It may even do the opposite.”
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Any chance of a little focus on the Junior Cert from the dept and the teachers unions they all seem to have forgotten that it exists and thousands of kids and their parents are left completely in the dark about what’s happening with it
@Garrett Mccolgan: Couldn’t agree more, it’s not like this group of kids are any less stressed
@Garrett Mccolgan: not a union decision
@Garrett Mccolgan: About time someone said it. My son in Jc year is hearing nothing, shambles
@Tony Gordon: why would you be stressed about the JC? It has no bearing on your future
@John Lyons: at lot of schools base your options for higher or ordinary level subjects in the leaving cert on your junior cert results so it can have a very great bearing indeed on a young person’s future
@John Lyons: You also need it as a minimum to pursue an apprenticeship if you choose that route.
@John Lyons: Because these kids are only 15 years old, about to face their first state exam and are being told by teachers and parents that it is important. In the grand scheme of things, it’s certainly not the most important exam you’ll ever sit, but it is to these children right now. And as already pointed out it can/does impact the subject choices/levels in the senior cycle and is sometimes a minimum requirement for some apprenticeships.
@Garrett Mccolgan: A school CANNOT base your options on anything. They can decide if your child is in a streamed class or not, but not whether or not they are taking Higher or Ordinary level, that is the child/parent’s decision. A teacher/school can only advise in this instance.
The indecisiveness in the department of education is staggering.
@Brian Dunne: They are managed by a lady with no previous experience outside of teaching kids. How can such unqualified characters get such high profile roles in government is beyond me.
@David Corrigan: what sort of experience could she have? Be qualified in politics? Enda Kenny was taoiseach and was from a teaching background. Youre making a cheap comment to fuel the hate against a minister (who i agree is out of her depth) who is already under fire.
@t: This is her first term as a TD
@Conall Ó Briain: have to start somewhere. Mchugh was deemed as bad last year at this time and Bruton the same before him. Impossible to keep the public happy as regards education
@t: Enda Kenny and Mehole Martin both teaching backgrounds. Time to ban the old keeping the job open in case of failure trick.
@t: It’s not a cheap comment. I just can’t understand how such poorly qualified characters are able to get such positions of power and be in charge of massive budgets.
Would you promote a college grad to CEO if you could? Makes no sense on any level.
@G Row.: you’re just having a go at teachers and that’s fine too but it’s besides the point here. Leo is a doctor. As qualified as one could be. Took him until the 5th count to be elected after the public decided he was no use essentially. The profession the minister/taoiseach comes from is irrelevant. Pick any minister you like over the years who did ‘a bad job’ and look up their professional life before their appointment. You will find a big big variation of careers!
@David Corrigan: who would you give these positions to so? It’s very easy criticise and point out failures but not as easy to provide the solutions.
@t: Yes she should have been a little more “qualified in politics” before getting a ministerial portfolio. Most people have to prove their competence before taking a top job with a large budget. In fact, ministerial appointments in government are the only exception I can think of.
@t: Have minimum entry requirements for people who want to go into politics. The last minister for health was a college drop out. How are you ok with a college drop out being in charge of an organisation with a 22BN EURO budget?
How could you possibly be ok with that?
@t: Former teachers, publicans and auctioneers shouldn’t be allowed to be in charge of state budgets.
@David Corrigan: you still aren’t providing the solutions? Who are the people who should be in these positions so? You want accountants from the private sector? And bankers etc etc? That worked out well during the celtic tiger
@t: Not having ago atteachers, plenty of good ones too its one of those jobs that if you also choose to engage in politics you have plenty of spare time to do so.
Try it as self employed, not so easy.
As for the doctor what can you say an absolute disaster.
@t: Is “minimum requirements” not a solution? You are refusing to listen here. How can people who have failed in education and business be promoted to the top jobs in the country?
We need people who made millions from nothing. At the moment we have characters who make nothing with millions.
The country will never realize it’s potential until we screen out the wasters and fools who parade around the place as politicians. It’s as simple as that.
@Declan Doherty: but that’s my point. No good in picking out norma foley, who has been desperate, when all ministers are the same.
@David Corrigan: a politics degree would be the said “minimum requirement “. The graduates will still be unproven and untested. They have tried this with doctors being minister for health and it has failed time and time again. Should The minister for housing be a former site foreman?
@t: You are refusing to understand. I don’t think you are up for such a discussion to be honest.
@t: Byrne who was FF spokesperson for Edu for 4+ years should’ve been the minister.
@Graham Manning: that’s a very valid point. There is a suggestion which is useful as opposed to saying we near to tear down the establishment and get people qualified In politics who will somehow fix the country
@David Corrigan: that’s gender quotas for you.
@G Row.: It is gone. 5 year ‘career break’ which is open to all teachers, and that’s it.
@David Corrigan: Why not?
@David Corrigan: college dropouts run some of the largest corporations in the world
@John Lyons: Yes but almost always through a company they’ve built themselves and therefore they’ve developed the experience and competence required to manage a company at that level. Norma was a teacher before being elected on the 8th count in 2020. She has zero experience in government or in a ministry and it shows. A couple of years on the benches followed by a stint as a junior minister might have set her up for some level of success.
@David Corrigan: They look for them, and get them. We had a minister for finance who didn’t have a bank account once …. remember?
@David Corrigan: I have to disagree with disallowing publicans.
‘A hybrid model of the two has also been suggested’. Great. Can’t come to a decision so we will have a bit of this and a bit of that. Sorted.
@alan: what’s your answer
@Cosmos20202020: Well, considering that they had a year already you think they could have come up with something. I don’t know, maybe modular exams, done online, project-based assessments etc.
Nope, they waited to see if COVID would go away and they could return to the same format of education that they’ve had for almost a 100 years.
The dog on the street could have told them that COVID was going to be a problem for the next year or two.
What’s to discuss? Call it off now and save everybody the hassle of pretending all will be well on the day when clearly that’s not remotely the case. Unless they plan to offer everyone sitting and supervising the jab, how can they make it work? Students need certainty and confidence in the system and the more time put into preparing an alternative, the better. Last year’s was a joke, and I don’t have enough faith in Norma to make this years much better. Call it off now, and hope the dept don’t make a dogs dinner of it again.
@Adrian O’Donnell: You think they made a “dogs dinner” of the calculated grades but you seem to want that to happen this year again by calling it off?
Agreed.. Amazed the Junior Cert even got a mention as they have totally forgotten about it. They seem to think that kids doing Junior Cert don’t exist.
It’s not just this year’s leaving certificate, what about next yrs? As the father of a 5th Yr student I see there is huge detrimental effect to the preparation of the leaving cert. The leaving cert is a two yr programme.
Is it fair on our kids that they are judged on basically what will be a one yr programme?
Government Need to have a 3 yr plan to get this leaving cert back to normal.
Give the Teachers the Vaccines now, and get them back into the schools. No excuses, No Unions, no more hopping and trotting just get stuck in to what has to be done. The schools being closed is having a detrimental effect on Society as a whole.
@James Keogh: 100%. Either that or the media stops going on about the leaving cert and the return to school and the just accept schools staying closed otherwise
@James Keogh: full years work in two months????
@Lorna Long: Be positive, show initiative and START now. It’s not about a Year in Two Months, it’s about mental well-being for us all, particularly children.
@James Keogh: the roll out of vaccine would still take 2 months though ha ha ha and they couldn’t even do the over 80’s correctly! The vaccine isn’t the issue now it’s the time lost James
I genuinely feel sorry for Norma, it is such a difficult decision, you have people wanting the leaving cert to go ahead, schools to be opened and on the other hand students saying no to the leaving cert and parents wanting the schools to be open. I don’t envy her job and the absolute vitriol she gets from people is disgusting, personal attacks.
@Ally Mc Culladgh: why do you feel sorry for ‘Norma’? She is a part of government whose function is to make decisions such as the one needed here. That is her job. Not trying to please everybody all the time. Martin was in the same position at christmas and look what happened when he caved in to pressure instead of making a reasoned decision. Allowing yourself to be pushed and pulled by focus groups is not governance.Do these people lack even the most basic principles/decison making abilities? if they do, they shouldn’t be in government.
@alan: Because she doesn’t deserve the personal degrading attacks. Because it’s not an easy decision. You only have to look at the journal and the comment sections people are so divided on the issue. I have empathy for Norma, that’s all, only expressing my opinion.
@Ally Mc Culladgh: fair enough. to me, she is simply a person out of her depth. i have no issues with her as a person at all. i am simply commenting on the clear lack of decisveness on this and on other issues. i just wish we had a better minister thats all. thats the least we deserve surely.
The students have hardly been to school for 2 years and you want to set tests. Madness in my opinion. Give THEM the choice, it’s their lives and it’s NOT YOUR PLACE to pontificate. What authorities can’t factor in when they ‘suitably adapt the exam papers’ (whatever that is supposed to mean) are the circumstances at home for each individual student. Have they had adequate access to technical facilities? What distractions are there in the home? Have they been forced to care for elderly or young family measures during the lockdowns? What’s the point in half an exam? TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF THEM NOW!!!
You be brown off listening about this leaving cert.
It will be whatever the union dictates is the way. It will be that way until there is kickback and the unions will blame the government!!
Whatever is announced tomorrow will be changed by Friday!!!!
@Jonnie Marre: I have to agree
family members ……. soz
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