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LAST UPDATE | 17 Jul 2020
THE LARGEST SECONDARY schools teachers’ union has said that it was ‘disappointing’ the way news of the Leaving Cert results day was announced, but that there is at least now certainty of the timeline.
Opposition parties have criticised the government’s announcement last night that this year’s results will not be available until 7 September, with the first round of CAO offers coming four days later.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Today with Sarah McInerney, deputy general secretary of the ASTI Diarmaid de Paor said it would have been better had stakeholders been given more advance notice of the announcement.
“We would welcome the certainty that at least now people know, but a terrible pity it has to be so long. We don’t know why it’s so long,” de Paor said.
He added that teachers have “done their work” to get the results out:
The results certainly have come out from the schools as fast as they could. So the teachers and the schools have done their work, I’m sure there are good reasons why it’s delayed but it’s very unfortunate. I would echo also that this will obviously add to the stress, the period of stress for students. But I’d say at least now they know when and hopefully that will at least we’ll be stuck to.
De Paor also said that students traditionally go to their school to collect their results but this will be doubly-difficult this year because of Covid-19 restrictions and also because teachers will have been involved formulating the results.
“That was going to be problematic probably this year anyway because students may have felt that the teachers gave them the mark, although there’s a long distance between the teachers mark and the mark they get from the State.
“But there’s a pastoral care element that a lot of teachers and principals are very keen on, that students who may be disappointed or whatever, that they have somebody there to talk their options through.”
Integrity
Speaking earlier this morning, Minister for Education Norma Foley said that delaying the release of this year’s Leaving Certificate results will allow the process to be carried out with integrity.
Foley also sought to reassure students who were anxious about the later release of this year’s results, claiming they will have a full opportunity to take up a course in the next academic year.
An opportunity for students to appeal their Calculated Grades will not begin until 14 September, just days before many college courses around the country begin.
And speaking on Morning Ireland on RTÉ Radio One this morning, Foley would not say when the second round of CAO offers, which would potentially allow students to take up a course that they missed out on in the first round, would begin.
“I’ve every confidence that… the students will have maximum opportunity to take up offers that they might wish to take up,” she said.
The minister also defended the quick turnaround time between courses being offered and their commencement that would now occur as a result of the delayed results.
Although acknowledging that the time-frame would be short and that it would be a stressful time for students and parents, Foley said that “we are living in extraordinary circumstances”.
“I’ve dealt with students all my life and I know it’s a time of high anxiety, but there is an assurance here that the process is continuing as it should continue,” she said.
Last night, Sinn Féin spokesperson on Education Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire said the decision was a blow to students and to their families.
“This is yet another example of a Department stumbling from crisis to crisis,” he said.
“This is a hugely disappointing turn of events for students and it adds to the uncertainty, stress and anxiety they have had to face during the Covid-19 pandemic.”
Labour’s spokesperson on Further, Higher Education, Innovation and Research, Senator Annie Hoey said the government had questions to answer over its decision.
““Students have had a really raw deal due to the Covid crisis and have unnecessarily suffered on account of poor decision making and weak leadership in relation to the Leaving Cert,” she said.
“The Minister needs to give them the answers they need in order to allow them to properly plan the next stage of their lives.”
- With reporting by Rónán Duffy
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Delay in issuing made up results….
Some shambles. It should never have been cancelled. Easy for the students to be socially distanced in empty schools.
Politicians bowing to the opposition and social media mob.
@Nioe: 100% on the ball there. Does the education minster really believe that she is not a round peg in a square hole
@Criostoir Mac Ranghaill: Given her location and views, then Peg is an absolutely appropriate name for her
@alan: whats her views?
@John Nolan: conservative pro life etc. easily checked if you took the time
@alan: Whats that got to do with her ability to be a good or bad Minister for Education. For a pro choice liberal you’re very closed minded and authoritarian in outlook
@alan: so what? How does that impact on the portfolio she has? Will only people with the ‘right’ opinions be allowed hold office from now on? That’s as bad as the fifties.
@alan: Peig wasn’t, though. There’s an uncensored version where she talked about contraception on the islands. For some reason not in the school version.
@Criostoir Mac Ranghaill: Ironically, “Putting a round peg in s square hole” is the title of the proposed new sex education course herself and her puritan colleagues aim to roll out across secondary schools
@Eric Nelligan: i’d be happier if we had a minister with a more progressive outlook, in touch with the times thats all. and of course it was originally to do with ‘pegs’. the censoring of peig is well known so it was kind of layered irony blah blah blah
@alan: whats wrong with being conservative & pro life?
Very odd that she spoke in the Dail yesterday and didn’t mention the results date. It came out later in a press release.
@Mairead Jenkins: in fairness that was because press release was preferred planned mode of announcement rather than an answer in Dáil.
First time TD who scraped in on the last count immediately promoted to minister of education. Sure what could go wrong?
@Anne Marie Devlin: According to the caption, the Minister for Edcucation. Let’s hope they discover a free spellchecker.
A huge amount of tail wagging the dog in the public sector.
@john s: Explain, please?
@sean o’dhubhghaill: high wages. No accountability. Decisions only made when it suits them. This example of made up results not being released until sept. Children’s hospital massive overspend. You can go to the pub if you eat but you cannot if you don’t eat as if food is a vaccine for covid. There are just 3 examples from the last couple of weeks.
@john s: When you say high wages, I assume you mean all the public sector Johno?!! And based on your experience of analysing the state’s leaving cert results, which had to be done in a completely new way this year, how long do you think it should take?!
@Joe Kennedy: yes high wages across the public sector. Excluding the massive pensions they are well above the country avg in every single position. As for your question of leaving cert results it should only take e weeks or less. Remember each teacher does their own class which will be a max of 40 pupil lets say they all teach 3 different leaving cert classes that is 120 pupils they have to mark. 120 divided by 15 working days using a 8hr day that is 1 per hr. Which outside the public sector would be seen as productive in the public sector it is seen as slavery
@john s: haha….the results are in with the Dept since June I believe John! Shows what you know! And can we see your information source on the salary of “every single position” being above the country average please? Would be intetesting to read.
@Joe Kennedy: Google the cso.ie they have done a few studies on it but notable they ignore the defined benefit public sector pensions. Which would make the gap bigger. All that with no accountability and job security. 10000′s of people on the covid payment at the minute but not 1 public sector employee on anything short of full pay.
@john s: haha….but none of that verifies what you claimed John I’m afraid?! You said “every single one”! Maybe you don’t understand what an average figure is? One person in my house here anyway in the public sector on less than the average annual earnings, according to the CSO figure. And same person is accountable to her manager and her patients/clients. And public sector in general have been working all the way through I would assume, so why would they be on the covid payment? I find any sentence containing “the public sector….” or “the private sector….” is generally a misinformed generalisation as seems to be the case here again!
@Joe Kennedy: It sounds like you may be employed in the civil/public service yourself Joe?
Whatever your point may be about the position of “every single one” of the employees in the public sector being above average wages, I can tell you that large numbers of public sector employees have been on easy street since the covid-19 restrictions came into effect. Plenty of people designated as non-essential have “remote working” arrangements with a strange lack of IT equipment or work that can be done remotely.
@White Chapel: Large numbers on easy street? Plenty of people….? Again, it seems like a misinformed generalisation….any chance of a link to your info source, so we can see what the percentages are for ourselves please? Would be interesring to see.
@Joe Kennedy: hit a nerve. You ask for evidence I gave you cso.ie. when we were locked down what were the courts doing, nothing on full pay. What were the council workers doing during lockdown nothing on full pay. What about the opw staff all their locations shutdown employees on full pay these are a few examples.
@Joe Kennedy: Yes Joe, exactly as I said, plenty of people in the public sector where I work. Its no generalisation, its a fact. Seeking links and publications appears to be your go to response for every comment you disagree with.
Who would publish such information in this case? The civil service or local authorities? Not every fact is published as you well know.
@john s: haha…..not at all John, don’t worry..If there was any accuracy to what you were saying it might have hit a nerve alright! Funny you mentioned OPW now as a husband of a friend of mine was working away throughout, so once again you’re mistaken on that, I’m afraid. Search “courts” here on the Jourmal and you’ll find numerous articles on what the courts have been doing throughout. And as I said earlier there wasn’t any evidence of what you were saying on the cso website unfortunately.
@White Chapel: haha ah right. Absolutely nothing to back up what you’re saying so. Well allow me to respond in a similar fashion so with a fact that many of the private sector were on “easy street” since restrictions came in!!
@Joe Kennedy: all opw sites shutdown and they were all working ? Wow the public sector gravy train has no shame .
@Joe Kennedy: how many people are now unemployed in the private sector 10000′s. How many in the public sector 0. Easy street alright. Public sector gravy train keeps steaming ahead. Lets give them a payrise.
@Joe Kennedy: You’re a gas man Joe. Your sources above are somebody in your house and your friends husband?!
I’m speaking from personal knowledge and experience in the public sector here, non-essential staff are at home “remote working” even where it is not possible fo them to do so. This is a fact which I don’t believe is published anywhere unless of course the civil/public service and their representatives in the unions do publish actual numbers of staff who have been idle since the end of March?
The whole country knows the situation for the private sector workers as this has been covered continuously on the news. The majority are on reduced pay through PUP, TWSS or on short time or layoffs. All these things are true and I’ll leave it at that.
@john s: nah, he was working from home.
@White Chapel: funny that none of what you’ve said applies to many of the private sector workers I know! Speaking from personal knowledge and experience in both the private and public sector myselfs too! As I said above, any comment that contains “the public sector….” or “the private sector…” is usually a misinformed generalisation, which once again applies to your comments. My two examples showed that John was incorrect in his statement that “every single one of the public sector were….” Finally, it’s been tough for many many people in both sectors and it serves no purpose whatsoever to be making out one sector has, or had it, any better than the other. Enough things to be worrying about!
@Joe Kennedy: I just wamt to point one thing out finally. When I said from knowledge and experience in the public sector, I meant locally in my current workplace. Without naming people or where I work, I can’t say much more to prove my point. However, I would be surprised if similar arrangements aren’t in existence elsewhere, but I have no way to prove this as you said.
I certainly didn’t intend to generalise to the whole county either in public or private sector occupations as I agree thay this wouldn’t be fair. I also agree that everybody has more than enough to worry about!
@White Chapel: okay, fair enough. And all I can say is anyone I know in the public sector here in my own home, as well as many of our colleagues we have in the sector, that have been working remotely at home, have been working as hard as they always do, and more so in some cases (as many are in both sectors), so I haven’t seen any of the arrangements you’re speaking of. But similarly, it wouldn’t be fair to generalise and say the whole sector is doing the same thing based on my number of examples.
Little do the Leaving Cert students know that they have been cast in a red-hot new drama series called Norma People.
This woman is pro life and anti sex education and runs a girls school in tralee. How the hell was she made education minister
Should anyone with differing views from yours be banned from public office?
@Whatever: she is entitled to have personal opinions, so al long as they don’t transfer into govt policy!
@Connachtabu: there is a reviewing of the abortion Legislation next year and given the government who have come into office, the legislation may be blocked, which is not the will of the country and quite frankly a lack of sex education is absolutely detrimental to everyone, it leads to higher cases of sexual assault/ rape, STIs and unwanted/ unplanned pregnancies. Having differing opinions and views is perfectly fine as long as it does not impede on basic human rights and the health of others…
@Whatever: show us where she is anti sex education.
@Sibéal Ní Chathasaigh: sorry but abortion can be rowed back if a majority of TD’s elected to the Dail wish to do so. As for sex education some people have concerns about the age appropriate nature of some things being taught. As parents that is their right. Its a sinister development if someone is banned from holding a ministerial position because the vocal minority wish it to be so.
I can tell ya now this women is going to be a disaster as Minister for education.
@Richard Carroll: She’s only one woman in fairness ..
@Richard Carroll: your English teacher was a disaster for your education and spelling
So those unfortunates awaiting results and who may have chosen to travel north or east to university outside the state cannot secure accommodation etc and will be left with the dregs because the public servants cannot get results out on time!!!!
I think there should be some leadership somewhere to make it easier for young people to get an education not harder!
@Michael Shannon: The dept. wanted results inputted by Fri 12th Jun yet hadn’t granted access to the system for many schools until 15th June. Also, if any mistakes was made by the person inputting results it took the Dept. took 2-3 days to reset it and in many cases a few more mistakes were made between the first mistake and fixing it so for some schools it took 7-8 days to complete.
As far as I’m aware all schools had all their data in by Mon 22nd or Tues 23rd June. Teachers and schools did their part. I don’t know what the delay is.
@Edward Ucator: The results inputted by teachers and principals have to go through a process of standardisation that will fit the national averages from previous years. School profile is also being taken account and that is their junior and leaving cert results from the 3 years previously. All that takes time and is new to the exams commission. I would imagine that they are still crunching numbers. There will be serious scrutiny of results so I’d imagine they want as little mistakes as possible.
@Longlin: So a ‘poor’ class in a ‘good’ school will have their grades dragged up. And similarly a few really good students who might appear, against the odds, in a ‘weak’ school will have theirs dragged down, just to match the averages of the previous few years.
@sean o’dhubhghaill: That’s what was proposed unfortunately and they went with it. No turning back now. Opportunity for students to sit the exams at a later stage but will probably be too late for this years college entries.
Another Of the Taoiseach’s blunders.
Made up results being delayed !
How’s that then?
Best way to tackle this is to complain to your local TD – is ‘nt that what they are there for
It is great to see a new Minister for Education put the Stakeholders 1st regarding the Leaving Cert results! She did not answer questions in the Dail as she wanted to advise Parents,Students/teachers/]Principals beforehand! She was not to blame for somebody leaking the news! Refreshing & Decisive decision Making..a good start for Minister Foley!
@anne kelly: Huh …..
@anne kelly: Really! You obviously do not have a leaving cert student in your home. I have watched my daughter get so stressed that she says she feels like she has no control over her life and is stuck. It’s heartbreaking to see what the 6th yr students have gone through this year only to be told they have to wait an extra month for their results putting more pressure on them unnecessarily.
Norma Foley isn’t fit for purpose. Take the dark ages thinking and practises back to the 1500′s please.
if this new how come 3rd level had already delayed their 1st year start dates
@ed w: 3rd level has delayed return for the vast majority of courses. Courses with significant placement requirements will be starting on the normal date. In cases where 1st years are starting later, this decision was made when it was thought that the LC would go ahead in August. Nothing to do with the current shambles
How on earth are the results later considering there were no JC or LC exams?
Strike three! Cowan, Foley and Ryan.. who’s next!!
Thank God for the good old asti.
What a whining opposition. They are adding to the anxiety.
This whole process has been terrible from beginning to end. Totally disgusted. And now an additional three week wait for results. No regard for this year’s students at all.
Looks like Norma is a good laugh
As a parent of a 6th yr student I have to say these students have been let down badly by Ed dep. Not only are they dealing with the never before predicted grades which has caused stress and anxiety. Now they have to wait a extra month for results what’s this going to do to students mental health which is already under stress. Extra stress caused to accommodate principals, teachers who don’t want to deal with students and the effects of predicted grades ,so an online portal has to be designed for the students to receive results. My daughter feels she has no control over her life and feels stuck . How they will the Ed dep deal with a situation of 2020 students deferring college courses to 2021 ,how will Ed dep handle it when there will not be enough spaces for 2020 and 2021 students?
have your say