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TAOISEACH LEO VARADKAR sported a ‘shamrock poppy’ lapel pin in the Dáil today – marking Remembrance Day, which takes place on 11 November every year.
The date marks the anniversary of the day World War One ended, on 11 November in 1918.
In terms of symbolism, the occasion is sometimes a complicated one for members of Irish political parties which have their roots in the time of the 1916 Rising and the War of Independence.
The Irish poppy pin worn by Varadkar was designed by the Royal British Legion and is “intended to promote greater public awareness of the legitimacy of the Remembrance Poppy within an Irish context,” according to the organisation’s website.
It is intended, according to the Royal British Legion, “to commemorate the memory of the Irish men and women from across the Island of Ireland who gave their lives in service with British, Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa) or Allied Forces (USA) in the Great Wars”.
This high quality enamel lapel pin presents an evocative emblem of Irish Remembrance intended to draw particular attention to the sacrifice of the people of Ireland in both World Wars. The simple, attractive and distinctively Irish iconography also allows the wearer to express their Irish identity, origin or descent wherever they may be.
Poppies are worn to commemorate the dead of the war as they are the flowers that grew on the Western Front battlefields of France and Belgium in the wake of the fighting.
Ireland in World War One
About 210,000 Irish men and women served in the British forces during World War One, and around 35,000 died. Home Rule leader John Redmond backed the involvement of Irish soldiers, arguing that it was necessary to support “the freedom of small nations”.
In recent years, a debate has arisen over whether Irish leaders should wear a poppy on certain occasions. In 2012, Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore defended the decision not to wear a poppy during Remembrance Day visits to the North.
Fine Gael Senator Neale Richmond has been tweeting about the shamrock-poppy hybrid pin in recent days – he sent one to Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, telling him that “in coming days, many Irish people will pause at church and civil ceremonies across Ireland and beyond to remember the thousands of Irish men and women who lost their lives over the course of two world wars”.
The Taoiseach’s choice of lapel pin went unremarked-upon by opposition TDs (Gerry Adams amongst them) who spoke during today’s session of Leaders’ Questions.
I think if someone has been on the dole for more than three years and is fight and able to work they should be made sign up
Agreed, we should open up all barracks that were shut, anyone at a loose end could be co ordernated to do projects that will help community/country..
The threat is not war but collapse of this country.
With due respect Gill – being out of work is surely already enough of a sentence .
Training our people in the use of Guns would be a disaster for this Country.
After reading and watching the recent murder events with Guns in USA , why would we want to revert to the bad old days of Guns in this Country?
Rather than having military service, we could look at having a year of compulsory state service support (Personally, i think transition year should be used for that). If run right, students who fail in their support (ie hours provided), are forced to repeat it etc (exceptions for hospitalisation etc). It would teach the students discipline, motivate them for College/University, and obviously the country would garner the benefit of having the students support local schemes like ;itter collection, community creche support etc etc. Just my opinion.
I am against the proposal of training every young person to handle guns and training them how to kill people. This concept just runs against my values.
The wouldn’t only be shown how to use a gun! There’s a lot more that people can learn from found a stint in the army! Apart from the mechanical, electrical, telecommunications and other types of trades that can be learned through the army people can also learn to be disciplined, how to respect others and most of all how to survive in though conditions! Most people would lost with the everyday niceties that they are accustomed to! The army would serve a lot of people well!
Really got to start spell checking! Predictive text is not my friend!
@ The OP: I presume this novel idea would also extend to your good self? Based on current figures, that would give us one of the largest armies in Europe by simple figures and by percentage of population, the world. Do you see an issue there at all? Do you see any possible issue at all with creating a non-professional army of two hundred thousand? You shouldn’t need to think too hard about this.
We have all laughed at the FCA in this country, which in the past often trained without real weapons and instead concentrated on non-combative training. Maybe something structured on the same lines might be useful for military service. We are entering an age of more uncertainty – technology is developing faster than society can change to keep up, we may face more extreme weather events, world food shortages could well become commonplace, capitalism (at least in its current form) seems to becoming as much as a failure as communism. We may be looking forward to civil unrest and much more wars internationally, and possibly also domestically (probably a bit more long term).
Having a population that is trained in disaster relief, dealing with civil unrest, etc. that could be called up from reserve might become not just a nicety, but a necessity.
No! As a former soldier, it’s either in you or it’s not!
Nothing as bad as chasing after a pup who really doesn’t want to be there!
To Alan Lawlor , the F.C.A did use real weapons for training in the past and they did plenty of duties backing full time soldiers . I was in the reserve and full time regulars myself . The RDF done a lot and are highly respected by the full time soldiers . I found it great to join the RDF before I joined as a full time (PDF) soldier
Most of them can go into “non combatant units” and not even fire a weapon. The Military is not all about killers
This service could extend to Gardia, ambulance service, Fire Service, Navy, etc
The military do more than train their personnel with ‘guns’. They learn an extremely vast amount if skills, from self discipline to physical fitness. In addition the Irish troops deployed overseas have a unique ability to communicate with the local population, despite the tension and conflict. Much more than training with weapons.
Why just keep it to people on the dole?
Here’s a better idea, either everybody, or nobody, regardless if you are on the dole or in a job.
We dont need soldiers! End of
I’d rather a 6-9 month community service than military service but surely it’d be worth considering.
What a comment to make so silly, maybe have people go do a certain amount of volunteer work but forcing people into army , everyone seems to forget a lot of the youth are gone and going so you want 40 and 50 year old men and women who were let down by their government , my parents at this hour of their life to go join the army! Think about your comments will you before you write them , and the people thumbing you up are doing so because we have been told to think that people on welfare are living the life and are laZy and useless just taking your tax money when none of that is true!
We are a neutral country so training everyone for what?
Are you wanting this country to participate in war now
@ Rodge we are not a neutral country. To be neutral we would have to be capable of defending our neutrality. We are simply militarily non aligned.
Neutral means not taking sides, a synonym for non-aligned, just another way of saying it. It doesn’t mean not taking sides and being able to defend that choice militarily. If that were the definition, then there is no such thing as a neutral country anywhere on Earth because the US/UK/China/Russia could flatten any of the neutral countries in about a week if they were bothered to do so.
Finland and Austria are like us, both neutral too. Why do they bother with this??
what a silly comment ,it may have slipped your tiny little mind but theres a workdwide recession at the moment and work is realy difficult to come by if unemployed
what a silly comment ,it may have slipped your tiny little mind but theres a workdwide recession at the moment and work is realy difficult to come by if unemployed
“should be made… “, oh dear, what a dreadful starting point for the argument.
I expect these are groups you don’t ever see yourself, or anyone you care for, belonging to. And yet we live in such a dynamic world I doubt such confidence is warranted.
@cal1 . Would you propose the same thing for the traveling community
Interesting. My first impulse was no but I wonder is the military the answer for the kids whose parents aren’t interested in putting manners on them..
Put the scrote parents in with them.
The military doesn’t really put manners on anyone. You’ll find that the whole point of basic training is to weed out people with attitude problems.
Definitely,give some of the teenage scrotes that’s blighting our streets something positive to do for the first time in their lives.might even make them proper members of the community
They’ve something similar in Switzerland and it does exactly that
In Switzerland they do a 9 month stint when they finish school and then 2 weeks per year until they turn 30.
Yeah, teach ‘scrotes’ (what a nasty term to use, by the way) how to use guns and bayonets and then release them back into the community. Really, this is nonsense.
Having community service where people can contribute, and can learn basic skills like building, plumbing, electrics, carpentry, computers, paramedic skills, cookery – that would be useful.
I can see the benefits of a “National Community Service”, it wouldn’t have to be based around the military but could instead teach young adults some real skills and how to be decent people. The problem is how would we do this here when we can’t even pay for and run a police force in our country, don’t even mention the state of our national Health Service. Unfortunately we have to prioritise and ideas like this, while very good and and likely to have an excellent outcome will require funding that, at the moment, is needed elsewhere. Hopefully that will change in time.
Compulsory Military Service – Meh. Compulsory Community Service – Yes!
My boyfriend is Austrian, he spent a year in the Austrian Red Cross, serving as a paramedic instead of the military, the organisation runs the ambulance service in most parts of Austria. If we had a year of civil service of different activities where we could gain important skills, I certainly would support, but purely military absolutely not. I started studying law this year but I believe I could have done with a year of growing up.
Brilliant idea, doesn’t have to be miliitary service, but a year or two years national service and then your college/training course is paid for by the state sounds fair.
From a personal point of view i would love to have done this as i think it teaches discipline and respect….not forgetting all the war stuff. God i loved being in the scouts. Good times until an army tank display drove over over tents while camping in the curragh. Big yes from me
You can join up part time so enjoy
Couldn’t agree more. Well said
As a scout leader I think it’s a bit worrying that you see modern scouting and military service as the same thing. You can teach a kid how to be independent, compassionate and savvy without sending them off to the army.
I want to hear more about tents been run over by tanks… please…
Might be a good thing for the likes of generation Y who think everything is handed to them on a plate.
sure our own parents said the same about us
That’s Gen Z, thanks though
Good man, tar a whole generation with the same brush. There will always be freeloaders and people who’ll genuinely bust a gut, same with every group from every generation. Comments like this are idiotic.
Don’t worry Rob, I’m not that ignorant. I was referring to the general characteristics/stereotypes of the generations.
More like generation Zzzzzzz sometimes :p
Wow, thanks for the generalisation there.
We couldn’t afford it but the idea is admirable. Too many young people leaving school and entering collage without a clear idea of what they want to do. A year or so of military service either armed or in a medical/ firefighting role would build better alround individuals. Not to mention the country benifiting from their service.
A year of community service creating community gardens in Ireland, working tidy towns, caring for the elderly, etc. combined with FCA training for teamwork, discipline, dress and drill would be a great idea for helping young people who seem so lost in Ireland at the moment. We can afford lots of things now that we are ‘potential’ trillionaires. Don’t know if you heard. Europa Oil and Gas Holdings (UK) have announced Jan 16th) they estimate they have discovered 1.6 billion barrels of oil at the Kiernan Prospect in the South Porcupine Basin. Along with the Barryroe Field that’s 3.2 billion barrels of oil discovered in the past 6 months with 67 more areas being explored. More info re Europa Oil and Gas news on http://www.Trillions.ie
We actually can. All we have to do is stop giving our money to Third world countries €600 odd million A year I believe
“a year or so of armed service” would help straighten out kids? What about the ones that don’t come back?
The ones that don’t come back…. Where exactly do you think they are being deployed too? How many Irish soldiers have been killed, not by accidents but by combat, in the last decade? I suggest you stop reading newspaper stories about other militaries and applying it to your own.
I think it is a great idea. Would be interested to read why people are against it.
Personally at 18, I didn’t have a clue and think a structured environment would have been useful. Life skills, training, structure etc.
Maybe people going into higher education can pass the compulsory training or some reasoning along those lines. I’m probably missing something but would be interested to read opinions
Agreed, having spent Time in Austria you can see the positive impact on peoples outlook. If Irish teens did this maybe they wouldnt grow up to be the self-entitled snobs our country is blighted with.
I lived in Austria for two years, I actually bought the grey jumper they give the people during their nine months service which I got in a second hand shop in 2003 and I still wear it.
They can opt to do 1 year community service instead of military, my friends who did the service said it was great craic and none of them were sent to war as Austria is neutral.
Moreover, Austrians are very well mannered and Vienna is the safest city in Europe. Im sure it’s not because of the service, but still, I always wished I could have done it.
I don’t want to be forced to do something I do not want or need to do. It’s that simple.
ata boy Joost
I’m against it as a free man. I’m not property of the state and wouldn’t like my children to be treated so. If someone wants to join the army / fire brigade / garda, they can apply freely. Otherwise, forcing people to serve any time anywhere is just a punishment for a crime they didn’t commit. Besides, I thought Ireland is a neutral country, not a militaristic satrapy?
@Joost. You probably didn’t want to be forced to go school when you were a kid either. Or do your homework. Or eat your vegetables. Or pay your taxes. There are actually a lot of things that we don’t want to do but are “forced” to do. They are not all bad. Personally, I think I would’ve liked it and I think we all leave school/college highly educated but not particularly skilled. It could be very beneficial for the nation at large and for each of us individually.
B Collins, your examples are terrible.
As a child you do not have the same mental capabilities as an adult to make a decision, your parents or guardians do that. They have, or should have, the right to not send you to school. Eating my vegetables is not something the state enforces. I am equally opposed to being violently forced to pay taxes as being violently forced to join the army. All your statements hold no value, all they prove is that people are forced to do things they do not want to do. Whether they are beneficial or not is subjective and in essence irrelevant to the entire conversation. Any other points to show as to why I or any other lad my age should be forced to join military service?
Is this a joke?
I’d like people in our defence forces who want to be there, not, for example “teenage scrotes blighting our streets” or “kids whose parents aren’t interested in putting manners on them”. You guys are suggesting military service as a cure for social ills and frankly before I’d even consider agreeing to that, I’d like to see evidence that it even works.
Yeah sure it’ll take disaffected people off the street. But it will also give them weapons training. That’s not very strategic thinking.
Being a member of the defence forces should be a badge of pride in a job not a punishment.
Well for a start Austria, Norway, Finland and Denmark are in a good economic state. Perhaps if our politicians had done some national service we wouldn’t be in such a mess.
Treasa, thanks for that bit of balance, I was getting a tad bit worried there with all the comments. A lot could be done to give young adults some direction and purpose in life, but forcing them to do military service sounds like slapping an emergency plaster on a much bigger problem.
I don’t believe that it works anywhere else, so why here. Also where would they house them as all the barracks are closed down
It worked very well in South Africa!
Genuinely works well in Israel ~ though their siege mentality may make for a more conducive environment for compulsory military service.
It works in israel
Perpetuating hatred is the only thing it does in Israel.
It works in Switzerland. That said, that doesn’t mean it would work in Ireland… it’s a strict social and cultural structure that I just don’t see working in Ireland.
Monica it works well in Switzerland because they have a long standing tradition of defending their neutrality. Whereas we have a long standing tradition of being dismissive of our soldiers. Compulsory Military Service would not work in Ireland.
It failed immensely in the Netherlands.
Probably why they haven’t had compulsory military or civic for years now.
@Monica Heck. They only do it for the gadgety knives.
Should be used as a punishment by order of a court. Keep our prison numbers down & save young offenders from making the wrong connections in jail.
Ah yes, great idea, teach all those going towards a life of crime how to use guns! A better idea might be to use the community service programme more effectively?
black and tans spring to mind ,no not a good idea and the krays, other than that would be a brilliant concept,used in the right manner
The idea that the Black & Tans were all ex-cons is a myth.
They were just nasty gits; certain people tried to justify their nastiness by saying they were former jail birds. They were mainly experienced soldiers, who had fought in many parts of the empire & in WWI.
Adam…….no no no. It never works to have people who don’t want to be there, particularly young offenders. The military is not some rehabilitation service, nor is it a social service either. Yes, it fosters discipline, team-work and a sense of self sacrifice. It offers massive variety and some adventure. But only for people who want to be there. For those that don’t want to be there it can be a nightmare. It’s not for everyone.
Judges in the late 70′s and early 80′s used it regularly prior to minor criminal offence sentencing and it dumped a lot of problem children in the army. For some – a minority – it worked. But in the main it simply shifted responsibility for them onto the military and a lot of media headline of “soldier arrested for…” or “former soldier jailed for…”. In the main these were those people dumped by the courts into the army and the army took the brunt of the public dismay at their behaviour. It didn’t work and the army was delighted to get rid of them. Back to my original point: it is not a social service or a ‘cheap’ way to fix things that deserve greater, more comprehensive attention and governmental joined-up thinking.
Imagine having compulsory military service for the unloved little scangers who cause no end of grief for decent civilized people? Imagine we could have boot camp service instead of a spell in St. Pat’s?
Fairly shake things up, that’s all I’m saying
So therefore we subjugate the vast majority of young people into a military service they may not want, or need to do? I’m principally opposed to military drafts, why should I be forced to undergo boot camp for any amount of time?
I believe it should be mandatory that when people finish school they should do a year. All classes from learning centres, Community schools to the private schools with both sexes integrating. Seeing as kids now can Google their rights and the wooden spoons and “wisht” of a tea towel are deemed to be cruel I think a year out in a military discipline would benefit both the attendees and our society in the long run..Kids may help an ole dear getting across the road as opposed to filming it on YouTube. Bring it on
would women be enlisted also ? saw enlisted men and women in Israel training and fighting together
Clownish idea. Cost a fortune and its no going to happen…. thankfully.
Anyone so inclined can join the reserve defence forces or the permanent defence forces.
And no, not a good idea to use it as a dumping ground for petty criminals. And I’m 100% positive that the regular army would entertain this BS with a barge pole.
Why do we think that teenagers and young people are the enemy? Was everyone here asleep during the recent young scientist of the year event.? Were they never young themselves?
The problematic youngsters are a tiny minority and a blanket solution involving controlling the lives of all young people would be utter madness. There is no military reason to add 50,000 teenagers to the defense forces every year so why even contemplate it.
I see your point! But you’re not seeing the big picture. If you read most of the comments there is a lot of teenagers out there that have no direction. Nothing to get up in the morning for. Conscription will help a vast amount of people with self discipline, maturity, direction and some meaning to life.
Well, there’s a bigger problem here if we need to invent places for them to go to get some meaning in their lives…don’t you think?
There is so much wrong with this country right now, so much to fight for and work towards, so many suffering. In fact the whole island is sinking. Why aren’t these youngsters eager to pull their sleeves up and start taking an active role in this society? Why are they disengaging?
Well, did anyone teach them about social responsibilities while they were growing up? Did anyone open their eyes to the injustices and poverty surrounding them? Those in poverty themselves – they’re probably too busy lashing out at who ever’s nearest because no one taught them how to fight for their rights.
And young people learn by example, yanno. Look at all of us here, the country’s going under and we’re just bickering and moaning about it. The protests and marches are miniscule compared to other parts of the world. I don’t see that many people using their time to help more disadvantaged members of society, or sticking up for each other’s rights.
And against all odds, there are plenty of young people with energy and enthusiasm who are doing their best with what little they have to try and make an impact, in small and big ways. You can’t just read a load of comments on a news site and say “oh yeah well if five people here are saying teenagers are lazy, then they must all be lazy!”. Come off it, you obviously don’t know too many teenagers.
Stamley, you are reading the comments wrong., It’s not the young people talking here, it’s the so callled grown ups that are afraid of the younger people, like yourself. You are putting these so called facts down from your own fear or misunderstanding of today’s youth
Draftees are expensive and militarily useless, what we need to do is foster civic volunteering.
Voted No, but I do think young people need structure in their lives. I would echo what others have said about a year of community service and volunteering. This would teach them about society and the main issues in society. It would gives us a more equipped generation of people to deal with the problems of our society.
With a federalised Europe on the horizon you can bet your bottom dollar conscription will be around the corner. A European army. It’s natural progression after federalisation. We will save to ‘save’ the euro a different way.
Dumb. Most European countries have scrapped conscription. What makes you think Europe wants to reintroduce it and for what purpose?
You think a federal United States of Europe will be neutral? That’s idiotic
Why do you equate neutrality or partiality with militarism? Switzerland is neutral and has conscription, Germany and France are not and do not ave conscription.
The US is has military alliances all over the world and only operates a draft as a last resource, preffering to use the volunteer National Guard as a reserve.
So. This poll proves 50% of the population to lazt and scared of hard work.
Explains the shite we find the country in.
Not surprised.
Oh Lad, you hit the nail right on the head. Fair and square!!
I agree that people should only join the army if they want to be professional soldiers. However compulsory community service would benefit everyone. Some people might not want to do it but does everyone want to attend school? Community service would teach people skills, discipline and the value of hard work. Community service programmes might also be a way to get people from different socio-economic backgrounds to work together and break down class barriers. We have bigger class barriers in Ireland than in most other European countries apart from England.
This comment proves your lack of critical thinking skill, paired with a lack of civility.
Why on earth not? For an 18 year old what better place then the army? They learn about discipline, are in a high intensity environment with others their age and will make friends for life. They would also earn a sense of responsibility. There should obviously be a non military option for those who object to the army for whatever reason. People are all read up on their ‘rights’ but none seem to have any consideration for their responsibilities to society. It’s sad when you see people who are third generation unemployed, they have 0 intention of ever joining the labour force, maybe this is the thing that could buck that trend
Since when has Ireland been truly ‘neutral’ ?
Very true. Only need to look at our behaviour during World War 2 which shows that, when push comes to shove, we’ll break that neutrality in a heartbeat.
When you can’t protect your neutrality like Switzerland can, you have to rely on others which Austria is leaning towards. And if you have to rely on others to protect your neutrality you aren’t neutral.
This poll doesn’t matter. Compulsory military service in an EU army is coming soon. The NO side in the Lisbon Treaty said so, they must be right :)
They will have some job bringing my kids to war . Yes we have voted for conscription within the E.U but its not relevant to my political beleifs ;-) . When the state over rides individual thought and freedoms it evolves into Facism.Not for me or mine ,Thanks .
Tho in fairness David , ya never know what de ass chaff in gubbermint could dream up!
I think you’re confusing their assertion about the formation of an EU army not compulsory conscription but I suppose when you’re FG you have to add bits on to an argument so you can knock it down…them strawmen fallacies can’t build themselves.
Although seeing as you wanted to bring the Lisbon treaty and it’s outrageous arguments for and against it at the time – how’s that bigger voice in Europe getting on David?….How’s it feel to have parity across the regime and not having 1 country dictate to the others?
There would be huge benefit to those that would be drafted. I come across so many young men and women who have no job prospects with no meaning or purpose to their lives. A little direction, purpose and self esteem building could go a long way
Imagine training all the little wanna-be scangers in their Celtic jerseys how to use a gun. You can be pretty certain theyd attempt to invade England, get the wrong boat, and make absolute bits of hollyhead.
I don’t think that people should be trained to use weapons unless they’re going to be professional soldiers. Training wannabe gang leaders to use weapons would be a disaster! Teach skills like First Aid, CPR and leadership. Teach people how to cook a cheap but nutritious meal from scratch. General fitness could be part of the programme – fitness is one aspect of military training that would be useful.
No it would kill off the track suit business.
Someone having a laugh today ,in this country they are closing the army barracks and getting rid of soldiers , they are closing 100 Garda stations this month cutting the Garda force, one must realise everything has to be cut back to save more money for the bondholders and the banks. So forget about the government spending money on the people or the country.
Again you don’t see the point. If they did a community service, we would be getting value for money rather than having them sit on the dole
William, take it as a badge of honour when someone like Stanley Groves says to you that “Again you don’t see the point” …… I wish he’d say it to me! :-)
This whole young people lacking direction stuff is nonsense. It may be true for a lot of others but I knew what I wanted to do when I was eight. Spending a year running around the Wicklow mountains or cleaning out bed pans would have been extremely annoying. Also, what if someone refuses to do it; do you throw them in prison for the year? It’s complete madness!
I did 2 years conscription in the South African Military as a combat soldier. If I refused I would been thrown in jail for 6.5 years
Exactly my point. Forcing otherwise law abiding citizens to do something against their will under the threat of prolonged imprisonment is ridiculous. You could make an argument for it during war or where there’s a real danger of a war but otherwise it’s just the government infringing on people’s rights unnecessarily.
Sounds like slavery to me. No thanks, I’d like to be free to choose my own path in life.
Well the bright side of this happening would be layabouts taken away and made run up mountains. Not only would they get exercise but also maybe even a sense of usefulness.
People would learn vital skills and even the ability to toughen up.
What’s useful in running up and down mountains?
In Denmark, although all men of eligable age are drafted you can be refused service if you do not meet the fitness criteria, such eye sight and epilepsy ect. Many are also excused service by a form of lottery as no country could financially support such a large defence force. Some who are excused reapply as volunteers, as in every country there are people who want to defend their country, in what ever form that may be.
A compulsory civil defence would be more acceptable. Make young people understand what it takes to deal with cases of emergency such as severe weather conditions, National events and evironmental clean ups. Also it would a great benefit to have youths achieve a degree of first aid and their year spent would go forward to a reduction in college fees. It might teach them it’s not all about what you can get but what you can give
We are cutting the Defence forces. There is less recruitment and closing Barracks. So i think that this is a None runner.
I think that Ireland is reasonably safe from military invasion. There is no military need to be served.
There is the longer term concern that the current economic crisis and the aftermath of the politics of greed and privilege for developers, bankers, politicians and civil servants could have a delayed reaction in terms of social unrest and widespread civil disobedience. Forced military conscription, which is what compulsory military service is, proves ineffective in such situations.
A professionally trained army will do as it ordered to, no matter how appalling the resulting atrocities but forced conscription merely takes young men and I suppose women out of circulation for a while.
In any event, it is not a practical proposal and I think that there are better served looking at sensible employment initiatives.
True, we have already sold our soverignty to the EU so nothing left to protect. The yellow Irish will hand over their kids when the time comes. We didnt even see one century of Independence. Pathetic
THIS IS IRELAND any anything that involves effort from the government will never be taken on ! we are the only Country in the Civilized world that is getting rid of the Army Reserves (FCA)
There is a high drop out of recruits as it stands, can you image the cost if people were forced to join, waste of kit, waste of instructions, we have a volunteer military force for the last 100yrs for a reason. These people train hard and have pride in their country no matter who makes up the government, they are ready to drive their civilian cars into barracks to take charge of military transport to ensure doctors and nurses are able to do their job… some people on this forum expect it would suit people who find it hard to get out of bed and motive themselves … the defence forces are here when others can’t / wont do theirs… pride is earned doesn’t come as part of your pay slip.
I can see the merits if it but on the flip side do we really want all the gougers thought advanced hand to hand combat and how to use weapons effectively??
No way! Terrible idea. All the commentators here might feel differently if it was they who were forced to do this and not those “damned teenagers”. A lot of old fogy types laying the blame for all of society’s ills on teenagers.
Still! Seems every generation has folks who fall in that trap, not remembering when they were the teens.
Yes it should be brought in , put manners on some of the knacks walking the streets , give them a lesson in the way of life and has it should be lived.Open their minds up to other possibilities that life has to offer .
Well said!!!
Ok how are we to put manners in to these knacks, as you call them? Drilling, shouting at them, forcing them to do things they don’t want to, learning them to kill or support killing, forcing pain on them. And after they leave, you think they would thanks you for that? You think they would be model citizens after that. Great idea, force everyone into submission and get a nice grey society where everyone thinks like you do, because after all you think you’re the model citizen.
I suspect the levels of obesity are much lower in these countries. People would learn to live healthier lives thus saving the health service a fortune. They’d also learn the importance of team work. Too many young people think they’re more important than everyone else today.
Waffler, i have been to Israel, and i have seen a high level of obesity in the older generations, even though all young men spend 3 years in the military and women spend 2 years. They all come out of the service hell bent on hating Palestinians as a general rule. I would not want that indoctrination to happen the Irish people.
So are they going to hate?? There won’t be any war for them to fight!! They will be doing a community service. Giving back something to the community and not just sitting on the dole and Tax payers have to just pay and pay and pay. They get some worth for the money they pay out
and no it is not good enough to suggest that young men on the dole or on drugs should be made do this, all of those young men have been in some way let down by your society , it could be one of your own….
And you society!!!
What a bizarre survey: it’s about 40 years out of date.
I voted no, but greatly regret the recent effective killing off of the FCA, which attracted little comment.
I served in the FCA for 25 years,
… got a lot from it in terms of personal development but also contributed a lot.
It’d be completely unnecessary in the sense that we’d actually need an army. But the direction and skills it could provide to some of those without purpose in Ireland would be better than free 3rd level education for everyone!!
Great idea Show order to kids who’ve never structure in their lives and put some humility into aggro rant D4 graduates A great leveller.
teach our young men how to go into combat and kill…. i dont think so, there are enough murderers in this world.
Who said anything about training them to be killers. Too much Hollywood for you
Stanley when you join any military service you are expected to kill when ordered. I don’t think every cadet goes through Full Metal Jacket training but all military personal are expected to fight, and, well, kill when necessary.
Some of the people on the dole are quite happy to be so making them join our army would give them an excellent excuse to make claims eg. I hurt my back lifting that sand bag €12,000 off the state thank you.
I would have loved it when I was in my late teens, the discipline would have been good for me! plus most young lads love the thought of being trained to survive in harsh climates, shoot, learn team building skills, competition, personal development, camaraderie and since we are a neutral country you could do all this with out going to war! I’ve even make a comparison between college drop out rates and military service, a short stint in the army would give people a chance to grow before feeling pressured into college to a course that might not suit them
sending the dole que there is ridiculous, people who don’t want to be there won’t hack it. Let people who want to better them selves and learn new skills do it
Teenagers who don’t want to be there won’t hack it either! The army has plenty of merits, but it isn’t a fail-safe substitute for employment, or emigration.
I agree, it should be optional for teenagers but there could be intensives for people who do it during and after
Do nike or addidas do uniforms?
No Draft, “CONSCRIPTION” should be put in place! Firstly it will straighten up many young men who are still hanging onto Mothers apron strings. They will learn to appreciate the good life of home, as many don’t and take it for granted. They will be making a contribution to the State and the Irish people. Many will mature and will be given a meaning to their life.
This does not mean they will have to all go to combat units, but non combatant units, like engineers, medical etc.
Exactly what I was thinking Stanley
youz two should get a room
The point is Paul that they do this before the dole becomes an option to them ,therefore they learn there’s more to life then just signing on week in week out
Mighty idea folks cut garda numbers and grants on the elderly but we shud def get military service for dole people and kids as great an idea as this poll sounds where do ye think money would come from to pay for it oh i know ud prob expect them to be taught for free. These brats and kids growing up now arent spoilt it was there parents and the celtic tiger lot who needed the kick up the backside
I am all in favour of it. I joined the Army in 1975 when the country was in a recession. at the time there were 27 platoons in training in clonmel kickham barracks. A lot of us are still in touch today. It really taught discipline and self respect and respect for the community.If we had compulsary service today it could lead to less crime and it would remove at least 30% off the live register and increase our tax take considerably
I often hear this mad idea floated. Talk about cart before horse. We seem oblivious to the fact that Ireland has a very small professional army and no air force. The land army operates a small handful of barracks, even smaller after a number were closed down recently. There’s capacity for participating in UN missions and internal operations but the idea of putting thousands of young people through the army is laughable.
We don’t need a big army either. Geographical location means it’s not a priority. Although the lack of any real air defense is somewhat worrying.
There’s a lot more to the military than fighting.
I know that. The point is the existing military infrastructure is very small and professional in nature. In order to put thousands of young people through it per year you would need to invest billions and completely redesign and realign the nature of the armed forces, something which there is no requirement to do. There’s also constitutional questions that would need to be resolved. Other countries have a history of this, we don’t. It’s never going to happen anyway. One of the marginally more batshit insane recession-busting ideas, I must say.
Waffler, everything in the military in directly or indirectly geared towards fighting and killing. If it’s not, it’s not the military. Simples.
Ireland does have an Air Corps. Check your facts before posting. http://www.military.ie/air-corps
He means Air Force,the Air Corps is in no way a real air force.
We have no fighter jets/interceptors/jammers/tankers/attack helicopters all of which are components of a real air force.
Not saying we need them but thats what an air force is
It’s an Air Corps as it is a part of the Irish Defence Forces umbrella rather than a separate military arm. For example the British Forces have the RAF (Royal Air Force) but the British Army also have an Army Air Corps which is separate to the RAF under the Army only. This is a reflection on the smaller size of the Irish Defence Forces in comparison to say the UK, USA, Pakistan etc. And the types of aircraft owned by the IAC would be purchased based on requirements which are dictated by the mandate coming from the government and Dept of Defence rather than a whim. It would just probably make more sense to use the hardware budget to purchase several naval patrol aircraft, ministerial transport aircraft, helicopters suitable to ground troop support, air ambulance and search and rescue (which are all relevant to the IAC’s actual daily duties) than say just one fighter jet.
As a serving member training recruits I know that 31% of people who “wanted” to join the army either failed to make the grade or voluntarily discharged themselves so I hold no hope for the toerags on the dole.
That included personnel from the RDF also.
I ve said it before I ll say it again no one should get free dole. Maybe give them six months but after that either stick them in the army or some kind of fas course (also drug test them). If nothing else it will get rid of all the guys workin for cash
Don’t get me wrong they won’t stop working for cash but at least they might stop claiming since they ll be too busy for any army bullshit
Yes, If they have no job after leaving school? Put them in Military and Civilian Service, The Army is not just about killing and blowing things up. There is other areas, that would put manners and discipline on these guys!
Where I come from, guys who were conscripted only learned to swear, drink and reject overreaching authority. Some of those “pacifists” who opted for hospital service instead got into hospital drugs (mostly morphine and the likes). Just saying.
I think it’s great. It’s good training for young guys leaving their mammy for the first time. It teaches them how to fend for themselves, rough it a bit. All sorts of young kids from very different backgrounds mix with each other. They have great fun too. I’m married to an Austrian and most of my friends are Austrian so while not an authority on the issue I do know a few things. The plus side for me is my husband can wash floors and shovel snow like a good thing.
I thing this would be a great idea it would stop people going down the wrong road would give every young man a better look at life and keep them off the street at night. Two years in the army after leaving school would make them responsibility and keep them out of trouble.
50% No = 50% Lazy.
A big yes… Military service can provide a type of education that many don’t get in school. Furthermore, after basic training few weapons are used. Military personnel focus on regular jobs that support the infrastructure of the military.
Also, men not acceptable to enter the army, like Germany, work in jobs that supports the nation. For example orderlies in public hospitals or workers that support council housing.
Introduce a compulsory service with a choice between military or community service. I think everyone would benefit from that.
They have voted to keep it ,Referendum has Passed
Have Sinn Fein not already introduced this to their own membership?
Nothing to do with SF…move along.
No! So we can have our youth drafted to some ill-conceived UN mission, wearing those insanely bright blue helmets? Though mandating that youth do their civic duty within their community (during their transition year, say) is a good idea.
I knew a guy who had been in UN forces in Sarajevo. When he got drunk he usually cried remembering the stuff he witnessed and took part in as a 21 years old, how it messed him up for life.
He was a volunteer.
It would get all the young hoodie crew off the streets and in service for a few years! Maybe then they would learn some manners and respect
I thought we were already doing national service – PAYING BACK THE BOND HOLDERS!!!
Whether community service or military service, it’d just be too expensive for that state. That’s the bottom line, and is the reason France and, more lately Germany have abolished it. Switzerland can afford it. If Austria can, then they’ll keep it, if not, they won’t. It’s not a moral or philosophical issue, it’s purely a financial one.
What in the world for, our population and economy are much too small to support a military large enough to defend ourselves. We’d go bankrupt, and there would be nothing left to defend. Alliances are our only hope, while we remain independent, and not part of a federal Europe. In my opinion.
and just where are all these ‘recrutes’ going to be billited? havnt the government just closed half of the countries barracks? as usuel a half baked idea from our half baked political morons.
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