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THEJOURNAL.IE IS AT the Irish Life building in Dublin this afternoon to watch six contestants…. sorry, campaigners… battle each other on either side of the Fiscal Compact referendum debate.
The Today FM Last Word Europe debate is hosted by Matt Cooper and features:
You’ll be able to see a pop-up livestream of the debate here.
Or you can sneak a peek at all the action on our liveblog, which will be running below for the duration.
We’re all present and correct here in the Irish Life building here on Abbey Street in Dublin. Richard Bruton has arrived for the ‘Yes’ side – originally it was meant to be a Labour minister. Wonder what happened there?
Richard Bruton being asked why we shouldn’t delay ratifying the treaty considering the French finance minister’s comments earlier today. Bruton says that Ireland needs certainty at this time and that the government has an obligation to go ahead with the referendum now that the Oireachtas has decided to put it to the people.
Bruton agrees with new French president Hollande that we need “additional growth” to be brought into policy but he says we must bring the treaty in first and build on that.
Micheal Martin being asked by Matt Cooper if reports are true that he would have preferred a later date for the referendum.
Why yes, says Martin, I said publicly that I would have preferred a later date. BUT – isn’t there always a but – the French president is not objecting to the treaty itself.
He says it is out of self-interest for Ireland so that we can “access funds” for frontline services at a cheaper rate than any other funds available. He reckons a ‘No’ vote is a vote FOR austerity. Which is a bit of a table-turner on the ‘No’ campaign’s slogan, no? (No pun intended… oh, never mind.)
Mary Lou McDonald is up next – she says it is in Ireland’s best interest to reject this treaty. She says that Hollande is refusing to ratify it and that the Germans are not in a position to ratify it.
The French, she says, think it’s a “recipe for more of the same”.
McDonald says “hacking away and cutting back and cutting back” has been the approach of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and – “sadly” – Labour and that is what she’s against and claims Hollande is against.
Matt Cooper: Mary Lou, do you want us to go back to living beyond our means? (ie, the State getting money from international moneylenders”.
She says no, of course, but reckons there is a better way of closing the deficit – by getting people off the dole, getting money circulating in the economy.
All eyes turning to Nigel Farage who finds it “oddly bizarre” that we are putting the treaty up for debate and referendum at all. He claims it is a referendum on a treaty that “won’t exist” by the time we ratify it.
We don’t normally like to comment on clothes and appearance but we are drawn to Farage’s bright yellow and black tie. It is like a rather buzzy wasp. No editorialising intended but it’s very eye-catching.
While we have been studying his tie, Farage has been saying that we are the least of the EU’s worries and is saying we are “David against Goliath”. He says that today in Killarney, there are MEPs spending a third of million “on a junket”.
He wants to live in a Europe that trades together but is not “ruled by Europe”.
Here’s businesswoman Nicola Byrne – she’s on the ‘Yes’ side but she’s not impressed by the “game of poker’ politicians are playing with this issue, waiting for each other to leave the table first.
She’s on the ‘Yes’ side though because she thinks it will keep us at the table, give us certainty in the economy, allowing people to trade and work.
Mandate’s head John Douglas is not happy with how younger people are suffering under austerity. He thinks it is a failure of the government and the Irish electorate who “pandered to the giveaway budgets” that we are in the situation we are in. His members at minimum wage certainly “didn’t dine at the table”, he says.
He feels that the first bailout hasn’t thrown out a lifeline – why would a second, he asks?
Richard Bruton asked by Matt Cooper how FG could have people believe it’s a vote for jobs. Haven’t we heard that claim before?
Bruton says that we allow investment to rebuild and that’s what we need to create enterprise and jobs.
Cooper asks why we’re talking about international funding all the time – are we not confident in domestic enterprise? Bruton says they too need access to international markets. He says we shouldn’t be talking about “Alice in Wonderland economics”. Mary Lou McDonald not liking that.
Nicola Byrne – during our boom years, we didn’t retract our public service – we “boomed’ it. The private sector is hurting – “the public service has to realign downwards now.”
Mary Lou McDonald doesn’t accept that it’s just international companies who can create jobs. Now she’s getting to tackle the “Alice in Wonderland economics” – Richard Bruton not happy but this is radio – one voice at a time, y’know.
Bruton says Mary Lou McDonald and Sinn Fein won’t every say how they are actually going to fund it. Bit of heckling from the audience – the Q&A section should be interesting…
Bruton is being taken on by Farage now who claims that Ireland will be giving away money if they ratify – that Ireland will have to sign up to an 11 billion euro bailout fund. “YOu will be massive net payees”. Bit of a way-hey from the same heckling quarter here.
Micheal Martin making the mistake of saying that Matt Cooper is not entirely impartial. Then tells Cooper to relax. Which sets off the heckler. Goodness gracious. Time, please.
Calm again – Martin says we should sign up because it gives us definite access to the ESM fund in 2014 and 2015. He also says there is a “big lie” in the ‘No’ campaign when they say a Yes vote means more cuts.
He calls Matt an “independent objective” observer – so we’re all pals again.
Mandate’s Douglas says we’re looking for money to pay the bankers. Break time. Thank goodness.
And this is the scene on the ‘Yes’ side during the news bulletin break:
(Pic: Hugh O’Connell/TheJournal.ie)
On the ‘No’ side he appears to be reading a leaflet from the ‘Yes’ side and throwing his hands up in the air and rolling his eyes at Mandate’s John Douglas.
In other news, Matt Cooper is encouraging people from the floor to cheer as they wish – but maybe keep the heckles down…
Mary Lou McDonald being taken up on her challenge of how she would fund the State.
“From the get-go, that is the most clearcut admission” that a second bailout might come to pass. She says she also accepts that a second bailout may come to pass.
She says that at senior level in Europe that it has been made clear that Ireland will be helped until it is “match-fit” to go back to the markets (to avoid euro collapse).
She also claims that Ireland won’t be left “to swing” because it would be too serious for the rest of the eurozone.
Her third point: “The fund is not yet established” and that to be established it has to get the say-so from Ireland.
Richard Bruton: Mary Lou McDonald’s last point there is “totally misleading”. He adds: “Sinn Fein is advising people to reject a treaty that gives us the solemn right to access those funds.” It’s a phoney argument he claims.
Cooper: Isn’t there an obligation on them to fund us or else the euro would implode?
Bruton: There is a standby fund but the people who give to that fund will want to see that the states that benefit are sticking to their budgets.
Micheal Martin suggesting that ML McDonald is asking us to “take a risk”. ML McDonald: “ML is NOT asking us to take a risk”. We’re in third-person territory now.
Martin wants McDonald to bring economists forward who will say exactly what a yes and no vote mean. He says that serious economists are saying a ‘No’ vote actually will mean more cuts. The initial Sinn Fein appropriation of quotes from economists who actually want a ‘Yes’ vote is brought up.
Mary Lou says the treaty will cost us €6bn. Martin goes a little bit nuts and challenges her to name one economist who says this.
McDonald: “Michael Taft”
Martin: “Who?”
*audience laughs*
This is Michael Taft by the way.
John Douglas is saying we’re looking at a second bailout when the govt said a few months ago that we weren’t. We’re not going to be looking for money “from your aunt in America”. We think he means anyone’s aunt, not an aunt of Micheal Martin’s in particular. We hope not.
If the Greeks pull out, we’re looking at a €1 trillion cost to the EU, says John Douglas. (Remember the Guardian’s front page today?)
Nicola Byrne is saying we should forget about Greece for a minute. If this vote “doesn’t make it, we have no way to hold our hand up high”.
Nicola Byrne doesn’t want the public service to disappear because she says that that is where the private sector is getting its work and funding at the moment. No-one is disagreeing with her.
Richard Bruton is making a mistake – by the audience’s reckoning- of even mentioning a second vote. “I think Ireland will be looking to say, ‘Can we vote again?’” because we’ll regret a No vote if it leaves us out in the cold.
Still, Richard, probably never a great idea to mention a second referendum to Irish voters, whatever innocuous way you mean it.
Nigel Farage is in after a little bit of time. He says that democracy in Ireland appears to have died because you have to keep voting until you get the vote that politicians and their “German overlords” want.
Martin tackles Farage – says his motivation is to bring England out of the UK.
Farage and Martin heckle back and forth but when Farage calls Martin a “collaborator”, that doesn’t go down well with anyone. Hot words.
“This isn’t us opting for a splendid isolation within Europe,” says Mary Lou McDonald. She reckons if other countries were to vote on this, their citizens would equally have an issue with the treaty.
McDonals wants to see the currency stabilised but sees flaws in the EU. “If we vote ‘No’, we are not johnny-no-mates in Europe.”
Martin wants to know who she thinks we would be aligned with if we vote ‘No’.
Bruton is saying that this is not “a blank cheque” as McDonald called it.
Martin gets last word in this section. He says the ‘Yes’ vote is giving binding status to the fiscal rules that “everyone” else in Europe has signed up to .
Break time. Micheal Martin is telling the heckler in the audience that it’s “not on”. The heckler has been calling Martin the “pro-Treaty” party, referring back to when Fianna Fail “used to be” a republican party. History note: FF originated from the De Valera led group which voted no to the Anglo-Irish Treaty.
We’re back. Nigel Farage has been in Ireland this week and says the mood in Dublin is that people here are more depressed than they were 5 or 10 years ago because of either personal debt or debt from bailout out the banks.
Matt Cooper asking him who is going to pick up the bill of the debt he speaks of. Farage saying that Iceland did well out of refusing to bail out the banks.
Martin says people in Iceland had their savings halved.
Farage says we need to write down some of our bank debt “because it’s just too big”.
John Douglas from Mandate is saying that the top earners in Irish society have actually become richer since the austerity measures/banking bailout began.
Richard Bruton: That’s just not true.
Then he clarifies: It’s not true that we are targeting the poor.
Matt Cooper: Should we not have gotten a deal on the banks before we agreed to put the fiscal compact to referendum?
Bruton: No – we need access to funds and growth strategy and that contrary to what the ‘No’ side say, Hollande is not looking to have debts written off. He says Michael Noona has been renegotiating the debt.
Is there a little schism here in the ‘Yes’ side? Businesswoman Nicola Byrne trying to get in there as Bruton is speaking. I’d like to hear more from her.
Martin: Yes, we should get a better deal in the promissory notes issue but the treaty is not the vehicle through which that can be addressed.
He reckons that being a member of the EU has been a help in terms of getting together mechanisms to help countries like Ireland.
McDonald: They won’t be writing down any debt unless they are asked.
Meanwhile, you might think we are quick with the updates here but Libertas beat Banagher – they have already posted up this press release on Richard Bruton’s mention of the electorate wishing to go again for a second vote if they vote No and we suffer because of it.
Richard, you can’t say we didn’t warn you that it wouldn’t come back to bite you…
Martin says that we have already agreed to rules in the fiscal treaty and won’t mean more cuts than those already agreed.
McDonald says the issue of the structural deficit is new. Martin says it’s not.
What’s “crucially” new, says McDonald, is that you seek to give the rules “constitutional” ratification.
Nicola Byrne is asking: If we vote Yes, and pull out afterwards, what difference is that from voting No. At least you’re giving us a chance.
John Douglas says that the Greeks are being demonised, “the Greek workers”.
Bruton is saying he is not a spokesman for the Labour party. (As we asked at the beginning of this liveblog, why did no Labour minister want to come on to the debate?)
The next part of the debate – possibly going to be the final one – is going to be questions from the audience.
From the heckling and heat in here so far, I would suggesting fastening your safety belt for this one. I’m putting on my crash helmet although I’m pretty sure there will be no flying objects.
A university student asks what a Yes or No vote will do to affect his job hunting?
Richard Bruton says a Yes vote will improve his chances – says that the stats show we can build on a fragile recovery. We have a long way to go but some of the most creative ambitious countries in the world “is picking Ireland to do business in”.
Nicola Byrne says: It won’t make a difference either way. (Brave stance for someone sitting on the Yes side of the table). She says she wants a Yes vote so we can put the debate aside and focus on growth. She has a pop at Nigel Farage – why are we letting a person in from the UK to tell us how to vote?
Nigel Farage says Lisbon 2 was meant to be a yes vote for jobs but that 120k jobs were lost after that. He says again that there are tons of MEPs in Kerry this evening advocating a Yes vote but having one MEP in from the UK is considered “evil”. I wonder if the UK MEP was not from the UKIP, would it make a difference?
Mary Lou McDonald says Sinn Fein is committed to keeping the 12.5 per cent corporation rate. (that was to Matt Cooper).
She tells the student in the audience that his interests are best served by voting No and that there will be precious few jobs here for him as things are going.
John Douglas says that a degree will help him but is his future here? He doesn’t know. Douglas’s own son is in Australia and his daughter is heading to London after the summer.
Micheal Martin is saying that people in Irish and multinational companies are saying vote Yes and that their word is better than Martin’s in terms of knowing what’s good for the jobs market.
The 20-year time scale to reduce the Budget: can that be met, asks Fiona O’Connor in the audience.
Yes, says Richard Bruton. He wants to clarify:
“There is no chance of a second vote on this. I’m retracting what I said. There is nothing wrong with being honest. Government has made it clear that there will be no second vote.”
So now. There is a drape in front of the table so we can’t see if his legs are backpedalling furiously.
Mary Lou McDonald says that the policies to date in government haven’t worked thus far.
There’s going to be a break for the comedian and impressionist John Colleary’s take on the referendum. Then the news. We’ll keep an eye out for fisticuffs here in this room where the temperature is either blood-hot or freezing cold depending on where you’re sitting in the room. And it’s nothing to do with the air conditioning.
The campaigners are all going to have to make a final stab at making a sum-up of their position after 6 o’clock. Micheal Martin and Richard Bruton are finally having a chinwag. Which is nice.
It will be a one-minute pitch each.
Lots of laughter in the room as Today FM’s news bulletin brings up Richard Bruton’s “Ireland will be looking to day, Can we vote again?” quote.
Again, we don’t want to say it but… told you so.
If you missed exactly what Richard Bruton said (and then later unsaid), read about it here from Hugh O’Connell.
Competition time on Last Word. Top of the range coffee maker prize gets a ‘whoooo’. Clearly, we haven’t left ALL of Celtic Tiger tastes behind.
Questions from Aoife Mullen:
If we fail to ratify the treatment, what happens next?
All eyes to Richard ‘secondreferendum/sorry, no secondreferendum’ Bruton.
Bruton says that basically it would become very difficulty to persuade investors that we would be stable and that we will continue to adjust and that we will be able to build “growth strategies”.
Stating their cases in one minute each:
Nicola Byrne – we are voting on where we are getting money in the future. The No side is deliberately mixing up arguments – she does believe in spending, not saving and getting back to work.
John Douglas: THis is not a Europe the trade union movement signed up for – we signed up for a social Europe – a No vote puts it back on the stage.
Micheal Martin: I believe in the euro and that a Yes vote gives it stability. And it also gives us access to stable funding to keep everything going. There is no need to take a chance by voting No and a Yes vote is “that bit safer”.
Mary Lou McDonald: The treaty won’t work for us, it’s a risky thing to do to hand over so much power to the EC and the European Court of Justice. It will mean up to an additional €6bn of cuts. We need to be part of the “great demand” that is coming from France and other countries that is looking for a change and work for the citizens. Banks can fail but citizens are too big too fail.
Richard Bruton: It gives us certainty for investors, for funding for our public services, we will be part of a EU coming to terms with challenges.
Nigel Farage: The merits of this treaty are that it involves an “unacceptable loss of control”. He says that the “whole game has changed” since the referendum was called and that a new European Union is being called for. “You would look very silly if you had sign up to a treaty” that doesn’t even exist. “Don’t be mugs.”
So that is that. Entertaining, surely, but did you learn anything that helped you make up your mind either way? We’d be interested to hear in the comments.
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Dunno about the rest of the country but a Lidl & Aldi have opened up in Bray & I’d say they’ve taken a huge bite out of Tesco’s revenue.
I very very rarely shop anywhere but Lidl now. Weekly shop for 3 adults for €60, tesco or dunnes couldn’t come near it.
Hate shopping in tescos the staff are always unfriendly like you annoying them being there.would rather spend my money in Irish owned stores like super valu and dunnes
Tesco bury their Irish profits figures in the overall figures. Have been screwing us here for years, about time they took a cut in profits Ireland.
Couldn’t agree more The only thing we still buy in Tesco is coffee as no other shop sells it Rest of our shopping is between Aldi and Dealz
Yep. I avoid tesco as much as possible. My local lidl and aldi are across the road from each other. I cherry pick from them and dunnes. Box clever and save cash!
@Adam: Same thing’s happened in my town Lidl are eating Tesco’s lunch, big time
Aldi all the way for us in Sligo or Carraick on Shannon, weekly shop €56.00. Same shop in Tesco used to cost up to €80.00!
Agree that Aldi and lidl are much cheaper than Tesco’s BUT they only ever seem to have one person on the checkouts and no express checkouts, it drives me bananas!
Shoppers have to spend a few hundred quid so we are losing around €10m sales for the quarter, yeah right, we are squeezing the oxygen out of our staff more like and productivity is suffering…has anyone been in one of their stores lately? I’m sure they want to slit their wrists in that place. Besides, who wants to shop in evil Tesco.
Saw how Tesco run riot over rules and regulations in the UK, and the prices in Ireland are extortionate compared to England . Never use them here if i can possibly help it.
For example…
Onion Rings
“the prices in Ireland are extortionate compared to England”
Heinz baked beans 6 pack 415g. Ireland €4.99. Uk €3.60 (£3).
Lidl baked beans 29c a can.
Had aldi beans years ago – tasted like ketchup covered gravel.
What do you except for 29 cent? Wouldn’t even buy you a plastic bag in tesco.
Tesco own brand baked beans 29c (two weeks ago). I go between Tesco, Dunnes and Aldi. The staff in all of them are friendly in Carlow ,not that I waste any more time than I have to in them. The property tax won’t hit some peoples pockets til July so will sales go down again.
Buy Batchelors beans then (tasty and Irish)
Why would anyone pay the property Tax?
There is a legal challenge at attack the tax.com
No need to pay it at all become a share holder to the action protect yourself and future generations from the loonytunes in government!!!
Tesco is far more expensive than Aldi, Lidl, or even Dunnes. I have shopped in all of them and Tesco is substantially more expensive. Maybe if they tried to keep their prices down, rather than gorging on Ireland, so as to keep prices in Britain on par with Asda, they wouldnt be failing miserably, but such ideas are lost on that greedy company.
Tesco stores in UK: About 3000.
Tesco stores in Ireland: About 150.
You really think they’re using 150 stores here to offset low prices in 3000 stores there? Really?
Profit is the reason they are gorging on Ireland, Damocles, but undoubtedly they are using monies earned here to keep prices ridiculously low in Britain. Have you shopped in their stores in the UK? Things are ridiculously cheap, so clearly they are making money from Ireland and other ventures. I never said it was entirely based on revenues generated in Ireland, but every little helps, or so they keep saying
They are profitable in both countries.
They have lower overheads in the UK so prices there are lower.
They have higher overheads here and “price matching” so prices are higher.
And, yeah, they go for maximum profit. It’s called capitalism.
Who has challenged the basis for their greed Damocles? Of course its capitalism, but that shouldnt be a justification for overcharging people. Your logic is lazy and dismissive. Overheads dont justify the discrepancies in prices, as Aldi also have charges and costs, but are willing to settle for a different profit margin. Are they socialist Damocles? Tesco are just greedy
Aldi reduce operating costs by offering a smaller range of products, making their staff work a greater variety of roles and working them a lot harder, you know the way the checkout staff scan at great speed? They get appraised on that speed.
Tesco offer a completely different methodology. They have ranges of products, ranges of brands, staff are dealt with differently.
You’re comparing Tesco UK with Tesco Ireland, and that’s a false comparison, the UK and Ireland are not the same.
You’re then comparing a budget supermarket with a higher end supermarket, and they aren’t the same either.
Compare like with like.
A soup shop that only offers tomato soup, vegetable soup and chicken soup is going to be cheaper than a soup shop that offers 20 different varieties.
You’re getting bogged down on policy, rather than addressing my points. Yes Aldi do things differently, but thats my point. Tesco managment, based in the UK, decide how to run the business and what profit margins they require. Saying Aldi do things differently only strengthens my point Damocles.
And Aldi are Tescos competition, so they are a valid comparison. Also, Aldi offer a wide and varied range of goods, so that point was simply incorrect. I think you need to shelve your assumptions and go to your local Aldi, as you’ll be surprised and a little richer at the end of the week
I prefer Lidl to Aldi, it’s handier for me.
You’re assuming I tend towards shopping in Tesco, I don’t. But I don’t try to compare the two as like for like because that would be ridiculous. Different supermarket types cater to different customer types.
“Aldi offer a wide and varied range of goods”, but not a wide and varied range of brands.
This isn’t complicated.
Aldi & Lidl came to this market at the height of the Tiger and people in the trade laughed at them, but no one is laughing now, except the hard pressed Irish consumers who are flocking to them in increasing numbers
The penny has dropped
Incorrect Damocles. Aldi offer a wide variety of brands also, but perhaps not enough for you personally. Their is a difference.
Youre right, it isnt complicated, but making dismissive ‘its capitalism’ remarks highlight why this country is broken and rotting at its core, Damocles. We should never justify being screwed by businesses, regardless. Justifying, and rushing to defend, the perpetrators is misguided and unnecessary
Very true Gerry
OK. Maybe it is complicated.
Personally for me it’s the price of food in Tesco that I don’t go any more.
I am single and just shopping for myself Tesco was about €50-55 and that would be a week without cleaning products or toiletries but now I always use Aldi and my weekly bill is max €30.
Peoples first choice seem to be Aldi/Lidl & then Tesco for top ups. No mention of Superquinn or Dunnes.
There was a time my mother passionately shopped in Superquinn & did her best to buy Irish brands. Alas now she’s an Aldi shopper on occasion popping down to Superquinn’s butcher for a bit of meat.
Sad times but that’s what this depression and these austerity policies have inflicted upon us.
I will shop wherever is convenient except Tesco, I will only use Tesco when there is no alternative! Their fresh food is tasteless! Aldi and Lidl bother me the way they have one/two people serving at peak times and the queues are up the aisles!
Aldi and Lidl stock Irish brands and products. Dunnes is overpriced and poor quality and Superquinn is ridiculously priced, pretentious and vastly overrated. Gimme Lidl Pork and Spring Onion sausages over Superquinn anyday.
Ye Ted I gotta agree with you there some self machines would be a nice addition. No baskets either just trolleys.
On another note I’ve heard good reports from staff members though they’re on a decent rate for retail.
Self service would be great in lidl especially when you’re only getting a handful of things.
They got baskets in lidl beside me last week so maybe soon will be rolling them out to all stores!!
Have you been in a Superquinn lately? The brands and choices are very similar to SuperValu (part of the same group) and comparable to Dunnes.
They are no longer pretentious, IMHO.
And you don’t feel like you are boarding a RyanAir flight at the checkout.
No, they roll the trolleys out, the baskets have to be carried.
^^cringe!!
I used to do that too and one day it occurred to me that what difference does it make to me where I shop is the most important thing to consider. Tesco , dunes , Lidle they all employ people in Ireland, they all stock Irish. I buy what is good value and good quality where it is most convenient to me.
Makes no difference to me the shareholders are Irish English German
@Adam.
Good morning, just wondering are you trying to imply that German companies are gaining the upper hand in the food retail sector because of austerity?
It is sad to see the likes of dunnes losing out to these German giants who only employ maybe 6 to 10 people per store, compared to a similar sized dunnes stores who would maybe employ 60.
But these are tough times I know,
But i always shop in Aldi, Lidl for everything as it means I have more money in my pocket.
I know this is damaging to the employees of dunnes, but in this crisis we need to be smart to pull through.
I’ll have to try them sausies Alan. Cheers.
Many of the Irish products on sale in Lidl and Aldi are actually Northern Irish i.e. UK, so don’t actually go to support Irish jobs.
They also have lovely beef and black pepper ones.
I use superquinn for top ups, they tend to have decent offers now and then
Also superscan means I can be in and out much faster then any other supermarket, even on the likes of the 24th Dec :-)
You should be buying in irish shops who have irish people working in it how many irish people do you see work in the likes of aldi and lidl support your own
I assume the people who work in Aldi live in Ireland.
but not from ireland. Support your own
@Bill yep.
Lidl & Aldi are companies that are recession proof, they strive in this economic climate. You can see that just by looking at the comments on this article. Everyone that has switched supermarkets is making a strong saving with the German giants.
Although I’m sure we can all say that we’d prefer to shop in an Irish owned company the economic times of today are pushing us toward the more money friendly stores.
@Clayton although your comment is clearly a troll attempt I’d guess that in the Lidl in Bray they have 1-2 foreign workers whilst the rest are Irish.
In Aldi, although Ive only been in it once, was around the same from my first impression.
no adam i aint trolling every lidl and aldi iv been in in dublin iv never come across any irish workers i just think that the majority of workers should be irish do you not think yourself support your own little local stores as much as we can people
Yeah like River Rock water which seems to be everywhere. Where are Ballygowan, Tipperary etc?? So bad.
yes Graham these foreign products are taking over ours its not on us irish people and irish companies are losing out we cant let this happen people check your products to see where they are from only buy irish please
Totally agree. I always check :) All these retailers stocking only River Rock water get on my wick. Where else in the world do you find foreign bottled water as standard?! Even in Dubai they predominantly sell their own domestic brands and they’re a desert ffs!
Clayton were you anywhere in the vicinity of the Anglo HQ last night?
My local lidl employs 3 Irish staff and 5 others. They all work hard, pay tax and are extremely friendly. What is your problem with that?
good man graham your the sort of people we need. and alan what are you trying to say about the anglo HQ. what i was saying we should have more irish people working in these shops then foreign what is your problem
clayton your a sad man you just want your voice herd just a racist thats all
Why?
clayton your a sad man you just wont your stupid racist voice herd
alan cause this is ireland thats why support your own. and charles screw you im a patriot to ireland
So should Dunnes sack all of their foreign staff, by your logic?
alan can you read proper i said that the majority of the people should be irish at least then most of the money will stay in this country and not to foreign ones jesus do you not want to see this country do well support your people and country
Ahhh selectively racist I see
im racist cause i want us and our country to do well you would have been no use to us in 1916 thats for sure
Ahhh an armchair patriot I see. Your attitude is insulting to those men and women who gave their lives for freedom. You are an embarrassment to this country sir.
no no armchair patriot how am i an embarrassment im the one here picking up for us irish people were the embarrassment mate you dont deserve to call yourself irish
ment to say your the embarrassment
Your obvious lack of education(re grammar, punctuation) betrays your admirable stance on immigration however that is masked by thinly veiled racist undertones that appear to suggest your true xenophobic intentions.
To be “smart to pull through” we need to get rid of this government of austerity. Their policies have devastated this country and things will not get better – only worse, much worse, as long as the clueless clowns Kenny & Gilmore’s Vichy government let the foreign Troika invaders make all their decisions
Aldi only put Irish flag symbol on ROI products. NI products are indicated. 50% of their food products are from the Republic including all fresh meat. Unlike Marks and Spencers, who put the shamrock on all their Irish products, most of which are from the Republic, not even the milk.
*not from Republic
Maybe now the government might scrap the property tax , we can’t have huge company’s like Tesco having dips in their profits .
Jeebus just think they might leave Ireland like other MNC……/Sarc
Any one know if they pay corporate tax at the 12% rate or can they move the profits off shore like the American multinationals?
Yes they will pay CT at a rate of 12.5% on trade profits. They pay the same rate of CT as every other incorporated trading company. Highly unlikely that “they move the profits off shore like the American multinationals” – as the issue there regards intellectual property and licencing rights relating to intangible software. Same cant be done with a pack of Viscounts.
I shop in aldi and then go to tesco for lactose free stuff. If aldi did lactose free id never need tesco!
Lidl have started stocking some lactose free and gluten free products
Great thanks
So have Aldi, seen it two days ago, Tescos gluten range is so expensive
Lactose free in aldi? Im not talking soya milk. Its cows milk without the lactose.
Try Supervalu, they do a great range in gluten/egg/dairy free products, possibly also lactose free.
I always go to Aldi but they don’t have the hair product I use so a few weeks ago after I finished my shopping in aldi I popped over to tescos to buy some shampoo/conditioner. The shelves had three for two offers displayed all over them so I thought I’d get a great deal. The sneaky feckers only had the large sizes available to buy and the price was crazy. It was going to cost me €14.00!! I normally pay €7.00 at most for both. I left it there and went to the local pharmacy and got what I wanted for just under €7.00.
They put up all these yellow stickers advertising these brilliant offers but they’re not giving you anything at all. It’s Aldi all the way for me!
they never give anything it’s always the supplier that takes the hit on 2 for 1 offers.
I’ve also noticed a few times that they haven’t taken the money off on deals advertised I’ve had to go bac after them … Imagine how many people dot notice slyy fckrs
Of course it wouldn’t have anything to do with their terrible value for money and inferior quality of fresh meat, fruit and veg compared to other supermarkets.
How much profit does Tesco generate/export from Ireland?
That’s the great unknown…
A lot !
My sister worked in Tesco in Parnell St some time back. She was telling me when they did a big price reduction campaign they reduced the prices of those advertised. However, they added up to five cent onto an awful lot more products that they hadn’t advertised.
Nedless to say I’ve never been in a Tesco store since. Shnakey basturds !
Yep, I don’t trust Tesco. Very strange they can’t be up front with their Irish profit figures…
I hate those bloody self service tills.
“Unexpected item in bagging area”
Not any more Tesco.
You would think Tesco would at least have a voice with an Irish accent at the self service tills.
Get over it.
Try to get a job there no way if your Irish no way
A load of Horse shit, If you ask me and don’t! Aldi and Lidl, have better prices and quality by far!
Telco put their own brand of milk up 10 cents this week they are putting up every thing I’m thinking of moving to dunnes
Try Lidl or Aldi Maureen. You’ll save a fortune
Dunnes is more expensive, my parents weekly shop is there and they pay €110 for two adults, between Aldi and Lidl and a couple of bits in Dealz (Coke, Dishwasher tablets) our shopping for a family of 6 is at tops €90
All milk will go up, not just in Tesco. It will be driven by market factors.
People, already having been put to the pin of their collar by austerity policies only have x amount of money left to spend. Government raids their kitty and takes Property/Bondholder Tax. People have even less money to spend, economy suffers, jobs put at risk. But the geniuses in government – in spite of having all those highly paid “advisers” are too stupid to realize this.
Treasure Ireland huh?
Tesco for choice lidil and aldi for price.
We have Dunnes, Supervalue and Superquinn. Why shop anywhere else? Careful shopping keeps the cost down.
Shop in Lidl & Aldi cheaper and often better quality.
All I know is that theres nothin super about the value in super valu…there used to be.a rapid shop in neilstown called bargain busters, they used to take the corn flakes outta the boxes and sell them in the bags probably coz they were outta date, but at 50p a bag no one complaint.
Haha bargain busters was the business. Try Mr.Price down in Kylemore – fairly cheap brand name stuff.
I think Super-Valu has the best own-brand stuff around. I think its just a false economy shopping in Lidl or Aldi as they invariably do not stock everything you need. Anytime I go there I always end up having to go to an ‘ordinary’ supermarket afterwards to get the remaining groceries, thus burning petrol. In addition , i really hate the way you cant get a basket in Lidl.
You can get a basket in lidl.
Also what products can you not find in Lidl or Aldi?
I agree with Alan, if its not in Lidle do you really need it?
I prefer to shop in Lidle as the produce is good value/quality and I’m not overwhelmed by choice, my wife prefers Tesco we have been using Supervalue to do online shop for the last month or two.
We can make a list and check to see what we need before putting in our order on Wednesday the weeks food is delivered on Friday evening. No hours wasted shopping , hassle parking, buying stuff you already have and not buying stuff you don’t need because you saw a special offer.
Tesco advertise a low cost range as being the same price or lower than Aldi but their products are rubbish. Sugar is like dust and baking fruits like floor sweepings. Aldi quality is first class.
Its simple really, you pay a premium for buying a product thats “branded”. In Lidl/Aldi you can buy generic versions of these brands for a fraction of the price and they are usually similar if not better in quality. I do the bulk shopping in Aldi/Lidl and cherry pick from the rest of the bunch. You have to look after number one in these times.
I think tesco needs a good clean up. Food stuff out of date. Newspapers Half of the paper missing, A good clean is require
No body seems to be in charge ,try to get a manager and you could be waiting for ever I’m talking about the clear water tesco it is the worst managed shop iv ever been in
Yes, this has everything to do with the property tax and nothing at all to do with customers avoiding a shop where they’re not sure whether they’re eating a juicy cow or a juicy horse.
this
Good enough for Tesco , they have up to 35% mark up on products sold , the supplier gets about 5 % on their products . It’s all about the share holders . Greedy shower of @#%?!rs
Hate the delivery depots – treated like dirt . Can’t stand the supermarkets
I shop in tesco but I generally only but tesco brand stuff, I go to lidl for top ups during the week cause its closer even tho I love their stuff I hate walking in and being in the sweet aisle straight away, to much temptation….if they started doing baby formula I’d problem shop there more!!
+1 on the baby formula. It is currently the only thing on my weekly shop that I can’t get in Lidl.
If you suggest it to your store manager in Lidl they will try to stock it for you. They’re very good at dealing with customer feedback and will always try to accomodate you.
@Aoife
Aldi have just added SMA formula to their permanent baby range, so I’d venture that Lidl will likely make a similar move in order to keep their market share so it might be no harm to get in touch with them even fire off a mail or a tweet and ask if they will stock formula. We’re using Aptimil so SMA in Aldi isn’t much good for our little one, but I don’t mind popping to the local shop for that once a week.
On a side note to others with tiny ones, Aldi nappies are superb. I used to believe cutting corners on buying Pampers was a false economy due to quality – I was a big eejit! Tried them on a friends recommendation and haven’t bought a since pack of Pampers since. Also their non-bio liquid tabs are a fraction of the price of Fairy ones and are brilliant for stains.
@ Karen +10 on the nappies, great quality and value for money, tried them 2 years ago and never turned back. They are even great for heavy wetters
I’ll +1 on the nappies also. €10 for a box of 76, beats pampers hands down on quality. Daddy does nappies :)
On that note, it is baby week in Lidl. 2 packs of 50 nappies going for a tenner.
Ah, so it’s not because their stuff is sh*t?
The introduction of the LPT for a fall in like for like sales of 1.4%, Tesco is a pathetic excuse. Continue on without changing how you do business and your sales will fall. You are too expensive for the current Irish market. Even with Clubcard points and point of sale points offers, Lidl and Aldi are still consistently hammering you for value. And Lidl and Aldi are going from strength to strength. Change your game or this will be a game changer for you.
Cannot believe their 2 lt milk showing at €1.70 as of yesterday when i bought it. When did they sneak that one in and is it the same everywhere. An increase of 21 cent is sizeable…
Love Lidl & Aldi. Great value for money. Aldi fresh pesto & their muesli is the best ive ever tasted & half the price of other supermarkets. Only thing I’m a bit weary of is their grapes, after noticing that they last a bit too long – had forgotten about some that i bought before going on holidays. Got back 3 weeks later & they were still perfect – ok they were left in the fridge, but made me wonder what was preserving them. Other than that, love the brands!
I was in Aldi in Austria. It’s alot cheaper than Ireland.
Aldi in Germany (Berlin) offer €5 for a six pack of weiss beir……and in store they offer a giant bottle crusher which gives you .75c per empty bottle you put back in, gives you a print out voucher there and then….to buy more beer with….I was in heaven.
Ah so it’s not because their stuff is sh*t?
Maybe Tescos could also look at its pricing which is way over the current inflation rate. They have been over charging for years. Good riddance to them. Best to use Aldi & Lidl
What hate is the yo yo of there prices and false claims of discounting.
Buy Irish, always
In the states in the 60s we had food cooperatives incorporated to buy food wholesale and sell at no profit (after expenses). Very popular and innovative in that they brought different international cuisines into the market. Is there anything like that in Ireland?
Not a fan of the tax situation, that said I don’t think it the reason Tesco down in sales, their fresh food is not great and the rest is overpriced,
Tesco in Ballyfermot was empty today. Totally dead. It used to be packed. Aldi opened a shop in Ballyfermot a few months ago. I’ve been shopping there. (Apart from today)
Load of guff from tesco. Profits in the UK have dropped there as well. Just saw it on the news. That the property taxs fault as well?
As others have said, it would be easier to have some sympathy with them if they had published separate profit and loss figures for their Irish outlets in the time they’ve been in Ireland. Instead they create the impression they are garnering much bigger mark-ups on products here than in the UK by concealing the Irish business they do.
I am referring to tesco newbridge co Kildare. On Thursday there was three apple tarts for sale on a shelf with mould on them. Who do they think would buy those. No profit to be made on them. And a lot of meat and fish on a shelf. With a for sale seign to clear. Not fit for a cat or a dog. Wake up clean up your store. And then make a profit.
Tesco express even more expensive than there bigger sheds. Badly stocked too.
I hate the length of queues in tesco. After shopping in aldi, shopping in tesco gives me queue rage! Tesco staff are so slow at finding barcodes. In aldi they have huge barcodes so they can’t be missed.
really sandra barcodes really why would you even put that up as a comment that is the worse thing iv ever herd on this really sandra the size of barcodes
It’s a fact. One of the reasons why aldi staff can put the shopping through so quick is the barcode size and design.
Bigger is always better.
Plus, big barcodes make you look slimmer.
Win win win.
It will cost you in the end buying fruit and veg in the german chains.
Ever noticed a sell by date on their perishable goods?? No? Cause there is none.
Roy Foxs all the way.
Do you ever notice in Tesco before a promotion cycle, product prices are raised so when they go on promotion it looks like you are getting a good deal. Really you are being robbed
In tesco they’ve 20 different types of balsamic vinegar one of which is like €18. You really have to be careful and check all the prices or you’ll get robbed in that shop. Some great bargains to be found too to be fair.
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