SIPTU are planning the Celtic Spring with strikes all over the country in every business once Transdev are conquered.

I think we all deserve a 30% payrise.

The drivers aren’t being paid for the strike days. What is “provocative and unprecedented” is the threat by Transdev to make further deductions from the driver’s wages for daring to engage in industrial action against their employer.

Solidarity with Luas drivers, the Tesco and Cadbury workers, the 999 operators, the nurses, the teachers and all workers struggling to obtain a greater share of the wealth which we create. As the data clearly shows, the trend over the past few decades has been overwhelmingly in the opposite direction with greater and greater wealth accumulating to capital owners and less and less to the workers. This has disastrous consequences for society and it’s long past time we reversed the rotten system which sees 62 individuals now holding the same wealth as the poorest half of the globes population, 3500 million people.

If any of the Luas Drivers are wasting their time reading some of the comments here, remember that most of the comments originate from the UK. This is Transdevs social media campaign. Be just. Fear not.

Wally, what salary do you consider to be a reasonable amount for someone (without third level education) in general?

Pure BS Me Darling. The vast vast majority of Irish people think the luas drivers are greedy basterds who deserve the sack.

@Anon, you don’t necessarily need a third level education to justify a good salary. I got kicked out of school at 15 and earn well above the national average, because I worked hard.

AM,
How little do you think someone without a 3rd level qualification should be paid? And who should decide?

Their employer should decide Wally – (aslong as it is over the minimum; hopefully living wage) and if that someone doesn’t like the salary or thinks they’re worth more than they signed to well go look for another job if the employee won’t agree to the increase you want.
(I don’t know of any employer that would agree to a 50% raise even over 5 years)

Thanks for no giving an answer.

Wally do you think they deserve a pay rise for the job they do? Deli staff in a busy shop work harder then they do, macdonalds during a Friday night rush is more strenuous then the job they have to do, and macdonalds staff work longer hours

It’s plain and simple, the more they strike the less respect I have for them. Sack the lot, each and every one, give the jobs to people who need it, clearly they don’t.

Wally… can you give your opinion on this wonderful socialist country, in the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/vnRjGYaqvIM

Assuming the employer has employed trolls to attack the workers and their union. Thankfully a labour dispute was never won or lost on the Journal.

Keep up the struggle comrades you are not alone!

Paul

It is regrettable that workers are not paid what they deserve. That is why CEOs are earning many multiples of the earnings of their wage slaves.

It is about collective strength, these workers have had the courage to stand unto their employer, and demand their share. The fast food workers must also organise and begin the fight for justice and fairness.

Well said Dublin what they are doing could help improve workers’ rights all over the country. Too many zero and minimum hour contracts people need to see what can be achieved if the stick together. They have to be commended for not letting new workers start on a lower grade. In the face of adversity they are staying strong.

New recruits don’t have to join the company if they don’t like the pay and think they are worth more.

Let them go get a better job that their talents deserve.

You’d think people were being forced at gunpoint to become Luas drivers.

Ah there you are wally this is very early for you to be up . Well done

I hear that your heroes in Venezuela have put the country on a 2 day work week

excellent email doing the rounds listing family related businesses to give a glowing review too… i just review a hair salon :D

Fair play to both Joes and Me Darlin Dublin.

Paying all workers a decent wage is in the interests of the vast majority. Business in general wants its customers to have as much money in their pockets as possible to purchase their products and services and generate revenue and profit. In contrast, each individual firm wants to pay their workers as little as possible to reduce costs in order to maximize profit. In the macro economy, the workers ARE the customers and this glaring contradiction is lost on the slavering neo liberals eternally demanding wage cuts and ‘flexibility’ such as zero hour contracts in the labour market.

It’s always aggregate demand and spending through the whole economy that ultimately creates and maintains jobs. Someone’s spending is always someone else’s job and income as the macro economy is circular. It is the aggregate spending of everyone in the economy, public, private, individuals and businesses that maintains and creates employment. We have seen the result of slashed government and private sector spending over the past 8 years of Austerity reflected in our massive dole queues, planes full of emigrants and mounting social problems such as the homelessness crisis.

Around half of any money that the Luas drivers get in a pay rise will end up increasing the government’s tax take which can be used to fund social services like health and education which benefit us all. The remainder of the pay increase will be spent in the local economy supporting other jobs and families. One person’s spending is another person’s income and job as the macro economy is circular. Transdev profits in contrast will be hoovered out of the country in dividend payments etc and will do nothing to support the local economy.

More money in the hands of the working class in beneficial for society generally. More money in the hands of the minority capitalist elite is bad news as they already have an obscene share of the world’s wealth and continue to hoard ever more.

It’s interesting to hear the majority here arguing against their own interests and for more money to accrue to those who already have too much.

Now I wonder who might benefit from keeping us in blind ignorance on the nature of the class divide and how the macro economy actually works? Possibly the kind of people who have accounts with Mossack Fonseca in Panama maybe?

What a ridiculous comment. Would you say that to a nurse or a garda.

That was aimed at alphanautica.

I’d take any job at their wage. ANY JOB. 5 years of job seeking, a degree and 2 postgrads later and I don’t even get reply to most applications. Fire the lot and hire some long – term job-seeking. Get some loyalty.

No true – more lies!! Shame on you.

Hear hear. I’d do ANY job for their pay and conditions. AND iv a 3rd level education (9).

These greedy ba**Ards are shaming honest workers. Don’t confuse the two.

@Wally

In your tone..

Solidarity with transdev and all the companies standing up against greed of workers.

@Rory, Its a down right disgrace! The bean counters at Transdev should be able to harvest the money tree and end this monetary famine

Wally, You never answered my question the other day. If Capitalism is the root of all our problems, what are you going to do about it? And do you have any real tangible solutions to the problems this country faces? (Other than preaching from the Karl Marx bible) What is this data you are referring to? I know you like cuting and pasting so go on……. Can I ask if you in gainful employment?

@Joey, the LUAS workers arnt on zero hour contracts!

Wally, You like ducking the difficult questions; as someone has already asked you….How much should the LUAS drivers be paid and more generally how do you decide what a worker should be paid? Should we all be paid the same or different wages?

The problem is if the capitalist elite start earning less profit it is going to become a disincentive for anyone to become business owners and therefore there will be less jobs available. Unskilled labour earns less. It’d be lovely if we could all earn more but we can’t. You get rewarded for going to university and going into a profession and you get EXTRA rewarded if you take the enormous risk of becoming and entrepreneur and you pull it off. There is a very clear ceiling when it comes to going into a job where you sit at the front of a tram all day pushing a stick. To the average man on the street €36,000 for a job of this nature seems way more than reasonable. Unreasonably generous even. Worry more about skilled vocational workers like nurses who earn less and have to work a lot harder.

It’s time for a Ronnie Reagan solution as with the air traffic controllers,clear em all out and start again,their will be enough applicants in the first hour to replace these work shy gentlemen and ladies.

Ah but there you have it the magic words,YOU WORKED HARD.

Robert,
Here’s some data on the gains accruing to capital at the expense of the majority working class:
The richest 62 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2016-01-18/62-people-own-same-half-world-reveals-oxfam-davos-report

It’s also important to understand that money doesn’t grow on trees but it is in fact grown on the computers of the central and commercial banks. Modern fiat currency money is not a scarce resource. It is created at will by the institutions public (central banks) and private (commercial banks) that are authorized to do so.

The money has no intrinsic value, is created primarily on computer keyboards and so largely exists as electronic account entries. All financial assets are matched by an equal liability and so cancel each other out and ultimately net to zero. What remains is the real wealth of goods and services primarily produced by the working class through their labour. Financial assets (money) is a claim on that real wealth and therein lies its power.

Government spending creates new money from nothing and puts it into circulation while taxation removes money from circulation and extinguishes it. Taxation is what ‘backs’ the currency. The government imposed tax liability creates a demand for the currency, ensures it is widely accepted and so gives the currency legitimacy. Taxation is also the mechanism by which money can be removed from circulation.

A sovereign currency issuing state like the U.S, U.K., New Zealand etc. does not need to raise tax revenue from private sources in order to spend on its social program such as pensions etc. The government/central bank is the monopoly issuer of their own currency and simply keystrokes the necessary money into existence.

Therefore these nations do not need to tax in order to spend in their own currency. The act of government spending is what actually creates the money which is then later removed from the economy via taxation. Such a state could for example implement a large scale social housing construction program to address the homeless crisis which Ireland currently faces. This would involve the government simply crediting the bank accounts of the builders, material providers, etc as necessary to have the homes built with the added benefit of creating desperately needed jobs in the construction sector. This contrary to neo liberal myth is how sovereign governments (e.g. New Zealand) actually spend in their own currency. They face no financial constraints whatsoever in that currency. The state can afford to buy whatever resources are for sale in the domestic currency.

For example, this is how sovereign governments pay the wages of their public sector employees. So the £2000 monthly salary for a nurse in Britain will see her Barclay’s account credited by £2k (broad money) and Barclay’s reserve account (base money) at the Bank of England increased by £2k, all done by simply pressing the necessary computer keys.

The state may face real resource limitations e.g. energy or skills shortages but not a financial constraint as it can never be insolvent in its own currency as it issues that currency. However if a state, promises to convert its currency to something else e.g. another currency or gold as a fixed rate, then it faces constraints in that other currency or commodity.

So nations which maintain a peg with the dollar for example must earn (through exports usually) or borrow reserves of dollars in order to maintain the peg. Greece and Ireland are effectively users of a foreign currency, the Euro and so are even further constrained. This is a deliberate design feature of the Euro which confers enormous power to the unelected and ultra capitalist institutions of the currency union such as the ECB who now hold the purse strings rather than the elected governments of the member nations.

The macro economy of nations and the globe is fundamentally different to the micro economics of business and households (private sector) who are users of the currency but not the issuer. A sovereign currency issuing government can afford to buy whatever resources are available for purchase in its own currency (including the labour of the unemployed) as they can never run out of keystrokes and so a budget deficit should not be considered a problem once this understood. The U.K. can sustain any size of budget deficit or national debt once it is denominated in sterling as the debt and interest is serviced via simple keystrokes at the central bank. That is why the enormous £850 billion bank bailout in the U.K. did not bankrupt the nation as it did in Ireland’s case.

Therefore the budget deficit (or surplus) should always be allowed to float to whatever level is required to support full employment to maximize productive output while maintaining price stability. As the economy approaches maximum productive capacity with full employment, the state can then remove money from the system via taxation and reduce government spending to counteract inflationary pressures.

Neither do sovereign states need to borrow from anywhere in order to finance a budget deficit. When those states do choose to issue government bonds the primary objective is to implement monetary policy (usually to drive their chosen base interest rate to target) not as a necessity to raise revenue. The primary mechanism is that the government will issue new bonds/bills/treasuries which pay a higher interest than the central bank reserves which the commercial banks hold and sells them in return for any excess reserves the private banks may have. In the reverse transaction, the central banks ‘buys’ back the government bonds in return for reserves in an effective asset swap with the commercial banks when they need to increase their reserve supply. The primary function of these transactions is to drive the base interest rate to the desired target. The central bank selling bonds drains reserves and so increases the interest rate on reserves while buying bonds injects reserves and so lowers the rate.

The central bank reserves and bonds/bills/treasuries are created electronically at will by the central bank/treasury as necessary to maintain liquidity and the desired overnight interest rate in the interbank reserves market. In this way a sovereign country can never really default on its own currency denominated debts unless it chooses to as the central bank can always ‘buy’ back the debt with newly created central bank reserves which every commercial bank requires to function. In addition, when those countries do ‘borrow’ in the market, it is clear that they effectively decide what the yield/interest will be unlike the Eurozone nations subject to profiteering by bond speculators.

So since the gold standard was discarded in 1971 and the introduction of the fiat floating currencies there is no need whatsoever for a currency issuing government/central bank like Australia or Japan to ‘borrow’ at all in its own currency to raise revenue. They can and do simply keystroke the currency into existence at will. This is why sovereign currency issuing governments actually control bond interest rates regardless of the state of their economies. The government ‘debt’ market is in reality a risk-free, interest bearing deposit facility for the large financial institutions and ultra-wealthy.

Continuing this neo liberal agenda, the Eurozone was deliberately designed to allow private banks (markets) to profit to an even greater extent from member state debt. It’s only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market as the EU allows the financial markets to set the borrowing rate for Euro countries on an individual basis with the ECB is the sole issuer of the currency and the nations prohibited from creating the currency themselves.

There can never be a shortage of money at a macro level so it’s clear that austerity and deprivation is a policy choice at national government and EU level. There are no shortages of any of the real resources (e.g. energy, food, material to build housing etc.) to eliminate poverty across the EU. The authorities pretend that there is lack of money to address the poverty of the citizens when in fact there can never be a shortage of a fiat currency like the Euro.

Neither is inflation a concern in the current recession where vast resources are available and many more resources (including labour) are lying idle. There is no simple linear relationship between money supply and inflation despite what the establishment vested interests would have us believe. The point at which inflation rises depends on the availability of real resources (goods & services) versus the actual demand for purchase.

So the creation of new money is not in itself inflationary if there is sufficient real wealth (goods & services) to buy with that new money. This is especially true if the new money is directed to the productive sectors of the economy for example through infrastructural improvement which leads to GDP growth and so more availability of real resources to purchase. Another key factor which prevents inflation is large scale unemployment where the productive capacity of the economy is not close to its peak. In this scenario which we currently face in Ireland and across Europe, the labour of the unemployed can be purchased with newly created money with no risk of general inflation. In fact the Eurozone is now facing deflation due to the fall in aggregate demand through 8 years of austerity. The enforced shortage of fiat money which are in reality just keystrokes at ECB level is a political choice, not an economic necessity.

This is so because the capitalist class benefit disproportionately in both the boom and bust phases of the inherently unstable capitalist economic cycle always at the expense of labour (vast majority). Therefore that elite and their political enablers continually promote policy and measures to inflate the booms and deepen the busts at the expense of the many.

So the booms are fueled by massive credit expansion through the commercial banks as we saw during the Irish property bubble. This drives up asset prices and profit margins for the plutonomy at a much faster rate than any wage increases. The capital owning classes have always known when to get out of the losing plays in time while a complicit media will continue to cheerlead the booms to manipulate the masses until the inevitable crash occurs. (This will sound very familiar to Irish ears).

In the reverse, the supply of money is restricted to deepen and prolong the bust. As we can see under the Austerity program, the ongoing recession and consequent unemployment is being used as a lever to viciously drive down wages and working conditions which also maximizes the gains to capital. In parallel, the national assets (like water) and social support systems (like health) are shredded and opened up for predatory fire sale purchases and privatization which enriches Denis O Brien and his ilk.
Economic stability is relatively unprofitable for capital but the vast majority of us are far better served by a stable system with modest economic growth ultimately limited by environmental, resource, population factors etc.

The ECB is the monopoly currency issuer of the Euro and faces no financial constraints within that currency. There can never by definition be a shortage of a fiat currency like the Euro. So if the EU/ECB chose to, they could simple keystroke the necessary money into existence to hire all the idle labour resources across the Eurozone to maximize the productive output of real goods and services and drive up living standards for everyone.

This would meet the twin objectives of creating real output for consumption and distributing it to the people who need it via their wages which are then used to buy those real goods and services.
This would restore the entire Eurozone to growth within a matter of months. It’s an ideological and political choice not to do so. The unemployment rate is a policy choice of the ECB and states which issue their own floating currency such as Britain. It is used as a tool to suppress the wage demands of the working class and so increases the gains to capital and it’s a highly successful strategy for capital owners as evidenced in the Oxfam link above.

It’s what Wally does, student socialistic with no real world experience, happy to dictate how much others shouldb be forced to paidc in inflated costs and higher tax rates.

My God that was some wall of text, now wally can you parse that into a non copy/paste job for those of us not schooled in socialist dogma and propaganda?

Im guessing workers=good corporation=bad is the simplistic gist yeah?

My god that is some load of waffle he posts day in day out.. Can’t answer some basic questions..

so what if the richest hold the wealth. they worked for it, invested smart, created employment, opened companies etc etc.. But in Wallys eye they should give all their money away so that people with no drive can get all for free..

simple question, how much should a un trained luas driver get. They require 7 weeks training to push a lever.. So simple question. How much is a fair wage for them?? If you refuse to keep answering a simple question then stop posting here..

@Kevin, you have pretty much nailed it! It we start jacking up wages in this country it would be less of an incentive for multinationals to invest here.. Further to this if we didnt have the lowest Corperation tax rate in Europe there would be an even less incentive. Thats not even considering how we would pay for the significant hikes in pub sector pay.

For those of you that dont want to read Wally’s cut and paste here is a synopsis

What he calls “Banksters” are bad
“Neoliberals” are bad
Capitalists are bad
The “1%” are bad
“Scabs” are bad
ECB is bad
Denis O Brien is bad
Blueshirts are bad
Capital owners are bad

So job creators are bad then?

Destroyer,

If what I’ve written is truly “some load of waffle” then you’ll have no problem in identifying 1 or 2 specific examples of where I’m incorrect? If you can’t , you might look like a bit of a spanner and should probably stop posting here to save yourself further embarrassment.

Ian,

Private capital only ever employs labour in order to exploit it to a greater or lesser degree. The sole objective of capitalist enterprise is the accumulation of profit and that profit is generated by the workers in the excess value they create over and above their wages. That is the essence of capitalism and it’s inherently exploitative. Capitalist enterprise will not create a single job or produce a single product or service without the expectation of profit.

So labour never receives the full value of the wealth it has created and over time this inevitably leads to the vast inequality with the majority labour class working to enrich an obscenely wealthy oligarchy. In addition, capital rents out its accumulated assets (e.g. property) back to the working class garnering further profit for itself while producing nothing.

Please… I never said they did.

Wally, is there any chance that you would change your name to Waffle? That’s all you do…

Walley, thanks for the Economics Essay…. did you pen that one yourself? You are having a stellar morning for dodging hard questions How much should the LUAS drivers be paid?

Yeah profit is something to be achieved, without something to strive for like profit all that is left is for every to expect things to be handed to them without having to work for them which is exactly what the LUAS drivers are doing, they are asking for an increase in pay without having earned it, while every other non union employees are given pay rises for working hard which is the way it should be, socialism calls for the human race to strive for mediocrity and entitlement instead of achievement and progress

Which part didn’t you understand Robert? The hand has been extended to lift you out of your ignorance. You should take it.

Just answer the question Wally. How much should be LUAS drivers be paid?

Ian,
Bill Gates, the richest capitalist on the planet would fundamentally disagree with you as understands that “achievement and progress” is largely driven by the public sector and that private enterprise is parasitic on society :
“Since World War II, U.S.-government R&D has defined the state of the art in almost every area,” Gates said. “The private sector is in general inept.”

http://usuncut.com/climate/bill-gates-only-socialism-can-save-us-from-climate-change/

Or maybe you believe that the impending environmental catastrophe which rampant capitalism has created and is utterly incapable of addressing is “achievement and progress” ?

Robert,

The Luas drivers should be paid enough to provide a decent home for themselves their families, good food on the table, heat and light, decent healthcare and education for the children and enough to pay for the home (banker) tax, etc etc and god forbid, even a family holiday. Now, knock yourself and out and put a figure on that in Euro and cents.

@Wally, you’re not the Messiah, your’re an ignorant waffler

“The Luas drivers should be paid enough to provide a decent home for themselves their families, good food on the table, heat and light, decent healthcare and education for the children and enough to pay for the home (banker) tax, etc etc and god forbid, even a family holiday. Now, knock yourself and out and put a figure on that in Euro and cents”

@Wally, all this can be already accomplished with the wage they earn, so stfu and start living in the real world, instead of la la land

And as I’ve asked you several times already how much does that equate to? Its ok if you dont know…..

I’m genuinely looking forward to seeing these greedy feckers sacked.

Yeah cus SpaceX could be called inept, outpacing all national space projects in sustainability and progress, I don’t disagree that climate change is an issue but its not the only issue either so using one problem as an excuse to push socialism as the only solution is a poor argument wally even for you

Ian,

Environmental change is an existential threat for billions of people globally. The problem cannot be solved by the socio economic system which has created it through rampant exploitation of the environment and labour for 250 years. Even Gates the arch capitalist understands this. The choice facing us socialism or continued and escalating barbarism.

Ironic considering anytime socialism has been adopted previously has simply led to escalated barbarism

Ian,

Socialism is working all around you in every developed nation in the world. It’s manifested in universal health and education, public housing, social welfare system, 40 hour working week, public pensions, minimum wage etc etc. All the most civilized aspects of modern society are socialist in nature. None of these concessions were gifted by the capitalist class. They were fought for and won over centuries of struggle by the working class.

Robert,

You seem to have a lot of questions but no answers. I’ve outlined a political and economic solution to many of the problems which we face us above. Have a read through and you may find a lot of your questions are addressed.

Peter – well maybe you should have taken doctorates/masters in something more useful than basket weaving/Irish dance, eh?

No you are spouting fanciful socialist rethoric without being able to answer any specific question. How much should the LUAS drivers be paid? Based on the criteria you have laid down how much should a LUAS driver be paid at a minimum? 30k a year, 40k a year, 50k a year 60k a year….. Are you in essence trying to define a living wage without any due consideration to the skills and complexity of their job, level of training and experience required…. Also how is it you have so much time to be writing essays on the Journal? You badge yourself as working class but dont appear to be doing any work. Is it possible you are availing of social welfare and have every minute of the day to be preaching online? Im on my holidays this week. Whats your excuse?

And yet again anytime a fully hardline socialist government has come to power society in those countries has becoming increasingly less civilised, or would you call the current situation in venezuela civilised wally?

You can argue for more socialist policies all you want but the fact of the matter is due to humanities inherant selfishness it will always lead to ruin as absolute power corrupts absolutely, Brazil is another fine example of this where the workers party once it got a taste of power went full on corrupt.

At least with capitalism we know what weve got it appeals to humanites base selfishness where when it comes down to it the vast majority of people always will look out first and foremost for number 1 which is exactly what the Luas workers are doing. You may try to ascribe some kind of grand socialist project they are fighting the good fight for but in reality they just want a bigger car and more foreign holiday’s

@ Wally….lol,,, have you anything else to do with your time except copy and paste articles and make slight edits to make it look your own crazy banter. Are you drunk? Also, you seem to obsessed with money and wealth, are you feeling ok Wally?

Wally – you are coming across as very nasty today , maybe this would be a good time to have a look at what went wrong in your life and try to turn it around somewhat

@Ian, countries which have attempted to implement socialist marxist ideals on a large scale include Russia, China, and North Korea…… Wonder if anyone fancies a game of word association?

The age old socialism v capitalism argument, we’re unlikely to solve it here. I come down on the capitalist side, the best CEO’s never stop working, have all the responsibility, you need to be pretty clever. The ordinary workers can most of the time, just click off and not worry too much about work. There in lies the difference, you get back what you put in.

The market should decide wally

joe thank god you’re alive. I thought the copper bosses shot you. Although I dreamt I saw you last night

@Wally..

You are posting the same things every single day.. I even recognise them now from a reading of a first sentence..

You refuse to answer a simple question.

“How much do you think a luas driver should make” – This one answer will determine a lot about what your thinking is..

You are not the only one that understand economics or who can copy paste, most of us try and have a discussion, you avoid a lot of it..

so answer my simple question above, you have been asked by more than one person.. You do not have to of course but to pack up what you “preach”, how about but a figure to it.. At least we can extrapolate to see what every other job should pay then.

btw, you are the only on here who looks like a spanner. A so called economist afraid of a real job.

I nearly went cross eyed from scrolling at speed through the comments/book he wrote there

Get a job in the real world ya fairy

I never met an irish socialist. I met many irish begrudger. The difference. A socialist wants to improve the worker’s conditions and wages. A begrudger wants to bring down the rich. I never heard an argument by an irish socialist which didn’t mention want to kick the rich rather than help the poor

The problem with socialism 5 that sooner or later you run out other peoples money

@secret81.. its the same every single day.. hes so “passionate”, but does nothing to fix it himself.. As an economist he embarrases himself with what he comes out with.

cant even answer a simple question about how much he honestly thinks an untrained/uneducated luas driver should get for pushing a lever up and down.

^^that last comment was aimed for wally

so all workers are being exploited wally. maybe they should all quit and let the state look after them. good economics?

Robert,
Socialism lasted In Russia for about 6 years from 1917 -23 until it collapsed under massive external attack from other capitalist governments and internally under Stalin’s power grab. Neither can China be considered socialist as its viciously anti-democratic and socialism by definition requires meaningful democracy. North Korea is a monstrosity and is as far removed from socialism as it’s possible to get. Venezuela and Cuba have elements of socialism but neither can it defined as socialist though it’s notable that those nations manage to protect the welfare of their people far far better than the poorest countries on the planet which all struggle under capitalism. These include DRC, Liberia, Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Burundi CAR, Uganda and Bangladesh etc.etc

Ian,

If humanity was as inherently stupidly selfish as you believe, then we would be long extinct as a species. It’s human intelligence and social co-operation that has allowed us to surpass far more powerful species and come to dominate the planet. While now it’s the blind greed and stupidity of the capitalist system and its acolytes which is now driving us and many other lifeforms towards a mass extinction. But hey, let’s pretend the real problem is “greedy” Luas drivers.

kill l capitalists. that would sort things out

@Larry,

ah but Wally thinks that the CEOS should share this greath wealth back with the workers.. Why should he.. I work in a massive bank. am well paid luckily for what I do.. But there are guys much higher up the chain that earn way more than me.. Do I feel jealous, sure.. but I don’t want their job or pressure.. They earned that..

Pushing a lever up and down is not hard. They clock off and do nothing else, while the marjority of hard workers are probably “online” 16-18 hours a day working.. But that doesnt fit into Wally dream..

We should all go back to the stone age, he would be happy.

That’s not socialism wally. its capitalism with a heart. The ussr was socialism. The west called them communists as an insult but they were socialists. They were the union of soviet socialist republics. and the were successful. They had to build a wall in Berlin to keep the capitalists out!

Me Darlin. You are aware with the faires lad and i guess a luas driver and possibly a union rep. “Be just and fear not” , tell them that when theyre in the dole office with their head spinning wondering how it happened.

Destroyer,

I take it then that you can’t point to anything incorrect in my description of the macro economy and monetary system above?

Therefore you now understand that it’s far better for everyone including yourself to have more money in the hands of the working class like the Luas drivers and less in the hands of capitalist owners like Transdev. Glad we cleared that up.

Those “capitalist owners” are projected to make a 1 mil loss this year, up from a 700k loss last year, can you explain what money you claim they are holding in their hands wally?

Also still no answer to the question what a reasonable salary would be? Consider they are already the highest paid tram drivers in europe.

Ian,
Transdev’s claims of a loss are highly dubious. They made profits of €1.39m in 2014 and also paid a dividend to their French parent company of over 2.8 million between 2013/14. It’s a fixed price contact so it’s a mystery as to how they’re losing money now.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/luas-operator-signs-five-year-150m-contract-1.1914395

In addition the company claims that it’s “strongly incentivized to grow passenger numbers” which have grown significantly since 2013/14 so how exactly are Transdev making a loss now?

If that is true and the Transdev management team signed up to a loss making contract with the Irish state, then they should have their munificent salaries reduced drastically for gross incompetence.

Even better, the operation of the Luas should be removed from Transdev and returned to the state who own the light rail network after all and where it can be run with the twin objectives of providing an efficient service to the public and decent jobs for the workers. If profits are generated then these can be returned to the exchequer or be reflected in reduced fares to collectively benefit everyone.

@Wally,

nope I dont agree with that.. I have no problem with Transdev having all the money. They are just people in end of day.. The shareholders of said company are just working people too..

I will engage you when you answer how much a luas driver should get paid.. round it to the nearest 5K if it makes it easier for you..

Your the economist Wally you tell us, all I know is the company have proven they are making a loss so its up to you to disprove it beyond saying “its highly dubious”

It already runs quite an efficient service as a private operation, most would argue more efficient than either of the other 2 public operated transport options in the city and the vast majority would also argue the jobs are already pretty decent. The Profits from increased ticket sales already do go back to the exchequer and into improved infrastructure since as you yourself pointed out Transdev are on a fixed contract.

Also still no estimation on what would be reasonable for a Luas driver to earn? Afraid to pin yourself to that flagpole are ya?

@Wally,

let it be run by the state..
1. It would not be efficient – Irish rail is not efficient
2. decent jobs.. what you mean is that it would be run by the government and hence very easy for the workers to “unite” and strike. The fact its a private company is much harder as we see..
3. profits generated returned to the exchequer.. I’m happier with the money being in a private company as the people behind it will probably not waste the money to the level the government would waste it.. For one they are actually business people. We have muppets running our country, and the fact they have the control over all our public money is bad enough without giving them more to lose.

Hey The Bull, I’ve said a million times not to exaggerate. Language always reveals a person’s class.

Robert, in recent times the trade union movement here has identified a living wage of €12.50 per hour. Assuming a 40 hour week, that’s €500 per week. Multiply that by 50 weeks per year (to allow for the family holiday that Wally mentions), we get €25k. Add in an extra 10% for contingency, and in order to satisfy Wally’s conditions, using the numbers put out by the left in this country, a Luas driver should be paid an annual salary of €27,500.

He wasn’t going to do the maths for you, so there you go. The conclusion is that they already make more than that and should therefore drop this ridiculous campaign.

You’ll continue to engage Destroyer because you can’t help yourself.

@Richard.. stop talking sense.. You see Wally is like all the other wafflers, wont put his name to it..
he knows if he comes out and says that a luas driver should earn 50K a year and he honestly believes it, that he is done.

albeit your calcs are wrong.. 12.50 an hour by 8 hour day = 100. multiply by 230 days = 23K.. As most people get 4 weeks holidays(plus there is 9 bank holidays + 1 other day say)..

27500 thousand is about right either way

Ian,
Can you show us the evidence where Trandev “have proven they are making a loss” ?
I wonder if they’re making a “Loss” in the same way as say Clery’s was making a “loss”?
That is the usual accounting 3 card trickery to suit the interests of capital.

@Wally,

no I am wanting you to answer the simple question.. put a figure on it..

Won’t be replying to anymore of your posts wally until you give us a number of what you think luas drivers should earn

@peter look at your language and attitude towards your fellow man, no wonder you are not hired

The luas drivers (like every other worker that wants to strike) should down tools indefinitely until they are listened to. Striking every once in a while as they currently do means they lose 2 or 3 days wages a month before tax, it doesn’t cost them a whole lot financially but turns the public on them… A continual work stoppage would have the issue over and done with in a week or 2 tops everybody’s a winner!

@Richard, Its also fair to say that generally the people who run companies are not heartless corporate task masters who want to didle the workers…. it appears to be an assumption in some quarters that companies are out to f$#k their workers!

It’s almost as if they realise that keeping good employees well paid (within reason) is in their benefit…

@Richard, I think you may be onto something

Whenever I see a post by Wally, I don’t bother to read it, same old macro economics, same old worker solidarity, blah blah blah. Just hit the red thumb.

The obvious answer to this question is cus they have zero skills or qualifications beyond driving a LUAS which is a capped position, they cant progress onto driving the super LUAS or something. But similarly they knew that going into the job so suddenly deciding they arent happy with the obvious realities of their job situation is just ridiculous.