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VARIABLE SPEED LIMITS and multiple point tolling should be introduced on the M50.
That is the opinion of Engineers Ireland, which yesterday released its infrastructure report The State of Ireland 2017.
The report says that the main motorway in Dublin needs to have drastic steps taken to reduce congestion.
It says that Ireland’s overall transport system is “mediocre and inadequately maintained”.
As part of the plan to improve things, the engineers suggest that the M50 have “variable speed limits and multi-point tolling to avoid an impending congestion crisis in the short-term” within two years.
Within five years, the group recommends that the Eastern Bypass plan be pursued. This would see the M50 made a fully circular route, linking the Port Tunnel with the M50 through the city’s southside. That plan was rejected in May last year by Dublin City councillors.
Latest figures from Transport Infrastructure Ireland, show that the portion of the M50 operating at free or stable flow decreased by 10% between 2015 and 2016.
The report says that:
“In Dublin, there should be additional circular routes to link outer suburbs and relieve the pressure on the M50.
“The use of intelligent transport systems (ITS) coupled with the introduction of variable speed limits and multi-point tolling on the M50 should help mitigate an impending crisis on this route.
“The only viable option is construction of the Eastern Bypass to alleviate traffic queues on the M50 at peak times and to mitigate against the occasional massive delays caused by a fatal accident.”
The report goes on to say that the Luas Cross-City should be extended to the north-west of Dublin to terminate and exchange with the M50.
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Yep makes perfect sense as we don’t pay enough already for roads already tolled & paid for many times over & we sure as $hit don’t pay enough in car tax / petrol, National Car Travesty, insurance costs etc.
@Setrakian: yeah keep the main toll on Northside – only need to pay it going to airport or blanch from Wickla
@Shane Cormican: That’s exactly what is wrong with the tolling. Thanks for pointing out the Northside inequality of tolling the M50. How about reducing the charge and point of entry with number of junction passed tolling. So all pay and those whose use it most pay more.
@Melissa O’Callaghan: 50c per junction would be the way to go.
@Setrakian:
Where in the article did it suggest increasing the cost? Multiple lower cost tolling points encourages traffic to stop avoiding using the M50 at the tolling point.
@Melissa O’Callaghan: I would agree with you of course, that should be the way to go. Unfortunately I don’t think they have that in mind. Most likely it will be the same price multiplied to many others entry along the M50.
@Vincent: multiple tolling points would be disastrous. If we’re lucky the pricing would start cheap, but the price would rise overtime. The toll was originally implemented to pay for the bridge that was built; that cost has been paid many times over at this stage. Tolls should be removed if anything.
@Setrakian: with a decent transport system, people could ditch the car. Those who chose to remain in it, would probably be spending less on petrol or diesel as they wont be on the roads for as long…
@Nick Allen: true, the issue was though, that the m50 was designed to get this traffic off local roads in the first place. But until the likes of Metro north and / or the eastern bypass or in place, it might be the best option…
Coming from a body (Engineers Ireland) whose members mainly over design things and get fees based on percentages of works cost, and is allowed claim extra thereafter for unforeseen obstacles.
@Tony Stack: €65 a week in tolls to commute from Greystones to Clarehall? No thanks.
The Irish way… something not working… Tax it!
@john Appleseed: if you think that’s bad, look at England. Bed room tax, council tax, water charges etc . So I don’t think we have it that bad
@Richy: VRT….USC…..etc…
@Richy: bedroom tax isn’t a tax. It is a reduced payment for a rent allowance or higher rent on council property if you have a place with more rooms than you need.
@john Appleseed:
Nothing in the article about taxing or increasing cost
@Nick Allen: well can you explain to me how Multiple tolling points will improve congestion? Multiple tolling points = multiple tolls. Guaranteed.
@Richy: that’s what happens when you sell off and privatise all your state assets, as Thacher did. Then the only way of raising revenue is to tax the public so they need to invent these stupid taxes.
@john Appleseed:
Multiple smaller tolling points spread out over the length of a motorway results in a more even distribution of traffic at the junctions and therefore less congestion as it stops people avoiding the charging point.
@Richy: well said…
@Nick Allen: I can see it now a toll point at mad cow entry exit imagin the build up on the Naas Rd, the reason for removing the toll both sides at the bridge was to help traffic move faster and get rid of the bottle neck, O by the way whoever said the toll was on the north side you do know the Liffey is the deviding line between north and south, when they were building the M50 some bright spark tried to put toll booths on some of the slip roads which were quickly removed….
@Peter donnelly: you do know the toll cameras are just before the bridge on the Blanch side, which is the north side!
@Richy: it the same here .house tax .tax on cars in U.K is three times less than Irish tax. If you look at it U.K. People pay less. Europe is paying for migrants.
Not a single mention about public transport. Says it all really
@Gordon McCabe: actually, the report itself does talk about this. In fact the report prioritises a shift from private to public transport, more support for EVs as part of a shift away from carbon, etc. It’s the journal article/summary that focuses on roads and tolls, giving a different impression of what this report actually argues by picking on a couple of aspects somewhere in a long list of recommendations.
Personally, I’d have preferred even more of a focus on public transport, cycling, and full-on decarbonisation, but you’ll have to wait for my ‘think tank’ to type it all up. ;-)
@Gordon McCabe:
Did you read the full report of or just the few paragraphs posted here. Says it all really.
@Gordon McCabe: great point…
@Iain MacLaren: great ….pleased thats clarified and yes why not more public and shared transport systems.
Seriously that’s it?…. that’s the best idea a group of ‘expert’ engineers can come up with to solve the problem with traffic congestion in the M50?….more tolls?
@Brian O’Loughlin: Some report “The state of Ireland 2017″. I’d have given it to them in one word and I’m not an engineer – “CLUSTERF**K”. This would have take one page (not even) and I’d have saved them a fortune.
@Brian O’Loughlin: was thinking the same – pure genius! How much was spent coming up with such inspiration?
@Brian O’Loughlin: NB: these guys do not speak for most engineers in Ireland. A real engineer would look at the compete system, which would include removing tolls, implementing variable speed limits to remove traffic congestion and free public transport as a long term solution.
@Gulliver Foyle: where in the world is there free public transport? Like all developed countries we already subsidise it either with free capital funds and here with running it daily. The NRA showed many m50 trips were short point to point use e.g.blanch to finglas. Current tolling only curbs trips traversing the liffey. So mostly free trips for southside use (largest m50 section) vs frequent use of toll for those north of the toll gates. Result? regular gridlock conditions at major southside junctions so you’re paying for it in lost days but also delaying commercial traffic (the reason for the m50), pollution and wasted time.
No prizes for guessing which part will get the green light first?……. The tolls!!!! FFS!
This is actually happening.
Spoke to a guy recently who works for a company who are working on this for implementation.
Usually these reports come out early to soften the blow with the public.
Next we will have RTE doing fake news on the M50, how bad it is and why tolls every 10 feet are necessary to keep the main vehicular artery of the capital city operating effeciently.
Problem reaction solution.
@Ciaran Fairley:
@Cram Wood: Spot on.
@Cram Wood:
Are you suggesting that when a problem is identified that they should not react and find a solution?
“Let’s build a road across Dublin to take some of the traffic away from using the main roads in and out of the city i.e. those that travel north to south and south to north daily. Oh, wait. It’s gone very busy. Let’s discourage people from using it by charging them money like road tax. Oh, wait. That’s not enough. Let’s put a toll on the road. Oh, hang on that doesn’t seem to be working either. I know. Let’s charge them more money by putting I’m a few extra tolls…..” – and on it goes!
F&ck them a useless self interest group full of government civil engineering parasites. All self interest groups and institutions should have multiple tolls if they were unable to plan for the future.
@John Dillon: They are full of private consultants, imho. Same difference though… it one is getting a 10% fee, little incentive to minimise costs
@George Salter: You said it yesterday about them and you were bloody spot on.
Go 15km west of the m50 and build an orbital route. M50 is full and car ownership is increasing.
@prop joe: That will only serve to push out the commuter-belt leading to urban-sprawl & long commutes. We should be building up, not out.
@Brian Lenehan: the M 50 was supposed to be in the countryside going around Dublin. The Eastern by pass would be better but has been rejected by the council. You need an alternative to the M50. So going outside it looks to be the only option.
@Brian Lenehan:
It would but we need to push the commuter belt out! There’s no alternative. More road capacity is better. Perhaps you think we should have kept the M50 at only 2 lanes in each direction? Does anyone think it was a bad idea to increase its capacity?
@prop joe: the council dont have the power to reject it
@prop joe: bad bad idea…
@Shane Zerbe: really. Then who controls planning? Fifth paragraph above Dublin city council rejected the idea. So who wants it. It must have local support if it is to be built.
Build up. The sky is free. Two tiered motorway. 2 lane express way each direction. On at M1/M50 junction and finish out by Cherrywood. Only 1 exit in between, at the redcow (city centre/ newlands)
80km speed limit and nothing over 2 axles allowed on upper tier.
The m50 was tolled at the the liffey valley to fund the bridge which has been paid for now many times over, there should be no tolls, not more
More money making ideas.
Vary speeds between junctions to confuse drivers so that automatic speed traps can fine them and toll at every junction to squeeze more cash out of them too.
Which will cause cash strapped people to use the M50 less and use side roads thereby negating the purpose of the M50 in the first place.
We’re going to need a bigger boat!
Very intelligent…..just push traffic back onto minor and side roads and create gridlock there instead! Not much point in paying (multiple) tolls to sit in a car park? Only in Ireland…..build roads and do everything you can to stop people using them. Joke of a country.
How about instead of building another orbital road with huge land acquisition and planning/legal costs, building instead another deck over the existing M50. We don’t suffer earthquakes or typhoon weather so just double up above? This is done in many countries & even bridges have double road decks and railway lines too.
Applying the “user pays” principle, it makes sense to charge a small toll between each segment of the M50, rather than provide it for free but for the stretch between the M3 & M4 junctions. In the current state it penalises the people living closest to it disproportionately.
The further you drive on the M50 the more you should have to pay, provided that, cumulatively, it doesn’t cost much more than it does today.
There was a chance of this happening when Leo Varadkar was Minister for Transport, but there’s no chance in hell now that Mr. Nimby, Shane Ross, is in charge of that portfolio.
@Brian Lenehan: Shane Ross – The invisible man. The single worst decision an electorate in country made since 1932.
@Brian Lenehan:
This wasn’t the only project unfinished by Leo when he had the portfolio, you are now jumping on Ross who has only been there a couple of months.
@Frank Cauldhame: 14 months, to be exact. Do you really think he’s going to discommode his constituents by imposing tolls on them as soon as they get on the motorway? At the moment they can drive it toll-free all the way to the Galway road at Lucan… that suits them just fine. For him to share the burden of tolls fairly across the entire route would certainly be the death-knell for him in the Dáil.
Those guys will be a popular bunch . For sure ….
Why are the comments closed on the Saudi article????
@Cathal S Byrne: The Journal must be skirting the issue!!
@Cathal S Byrne: because yesterday was such a lovely day and they don’t want to spoil it today with all the sh*te that’ll be posted in the comments?
We need a city mayor to make these decisions. After 20 years of voting left (mainly Labour), I will be no longer lending my vote to the party that “means the best”, and instead voting for the most effective represesentative, regatdless of ideology.
After 40 years of voting I will no longer be voting.
Greatest waste of time ever.
Makes no difference whatsoever.
Who do you vote for?
They are all useless, don’t like any of them.
So you vote for the least evil of them even though you don’t want to.
This is morally wrong and just encourages them to offer more of the same policies you didn’t want in the first place.
Not voting is saying to them that ye are all kraap and I will vote if someone comes along with ideas that I like.
@Marc Mac Eo:
Why not invest money in a proper public transport system with multiple park and ride facilities to encourage people to use it. One cheap non staged fare.
I have often used the public transport system i see here in Sofia, Bulgaria as an example. The poorest country in the EU can provide it’s citizens and visitors with multiple choices for public transport. Doesn’t make roads with tram lines exclusive to trams only. Sofia has a bigger area and less people to provide for yet it has buses, trolley buses,trams, and an extensive modern underground system, taxis are cheap to use also and plenty of them.
In Ireland the only answer to problems is screw the public yet not provide the service.
@Dave Doyle: thats communism for you…
@Michael Griffin: it’s been a long time since Bulgaria left communisim behind and I agree all the infrastrust was there then but since leaving it’s not as nice as place to visit as it was….
@Peter donnelly: Still a lovely, interesting place to visit. I travell a lot to Sofia from Burgas, a 400km trip. Once there i never have to use my car to travel around the city. Public transport is good, cheap, lots of choice and frequent.
More cameras over the entire length and 50c per pass would be fairer than penalising people with huge tolls for possibly only using tiny part of M50, as it’s congesting roads around where the main toll is, which adds to the problem of why the motorway was needed in first place.
Why are people surprised when all government spending happens in Dublin. Everyone has to move to Dublin as no jobs anywhere else. So mega congestion. Pretty simple really.
Yes.
Speed limits should be increased on the M50 to ease traffic congestion.
To travel just say from Drogheda to Cork or Limerick you go through four tolls,Every major road out of Dublin has at least one toll.
You can travel from Glasgow to London without having to use a toll, The M25 orbital around London which has four lanes and longer than the M50 has no tolls.
@Dave Byrne: apples and oranges. The UK enjoys more natural resources than us, stronger economy than us. If they want to plough some of that into the roads fair enough, but we can’t afford to.
Why is there not more noise made over the fact that city council rejected the orbital route ? The sheep just accept what is done, moan away, but do nothing. The media is the same. Doesn’t go where it should and just takes the easy path .
More tax been put upon the people, meanwhile our insurance and road tax will go up, maybe we should all use bikes and pay nothing
More Tax yep that will fix it
Like this is utter nonsense. What really frustrates me is these clowns have had 8 years to plan for this when the bubble burst but they sat on their respective arses and did nothing. The boom is back and the m50 is getting more congested every morning- like the blind man on the street could have forecasted this was going to happen. Complete lack of planning. Oh I know we’ll add more tolls because people won’t drive this way for 2€ FFS
closing the circle makes sense, as does an orbital road. the tolling doesn’t. make the slip roads wider at the worst congested areas, like red cow and m1 junctions. set minimum speed limits as well as increased maximums.
They should have smart motorways where the congested junctions give access to the hard shoulder and are controlled by electronic signs at peak times like the UK. long term plan additional orbital route going around the M50 linking up with all other motorways. In addition one motorway down the middle of the country north to south.
@Marc Mac Eo: labour aint left marc
So the road that was built to ease congestion needs to be helped with congestion. LOL’s all day long only in Ireland
I only use the M50 now and then however if there is going to be more tolling then I for one will actively avoid them if this is rolled out.
There are already 3 tolls to get from Cork to North Dublin.
As far as I see most of the traffic build up going southbound is because of traffic heading for Bray sort that and extend the motorway no issues then.
The M50 tolling is very unfair. you should be charged for amount of exits you go through. If you enter the m50 on exit 2 and leave on exit 3,4,5 or 6 there is no charge nor if you enter from exit 8 onward, yet if you enter on exit 6 and leave on exit 7 you pay. equally if you drive the full length of the motorway you are charged the same as someone who has used 1 exit. how is that fair? i don’t believe there should be a toll at all, but if there is going to be, at least make it fair on the road users!
Headlines: Ireland thinking about joining the 21st century and installing electronic signs on motorways!
in a few years all these roads will be like graveyards we ll all be droning….
There should be a toll at every entrance.
Everyone who uses it should be charged, not just the unluckily few who have to cross an arbitrarily chosen point on the Northside of the city.
A couple of 6 year olds could have come up with better ideas
This country’s a joke. The answer to every problem is screw more out of joe public.
I can sort this problem out on my first day in office. I have a secret plan which will solve all our transport problems and cost nothing. My plan will be revealed after the election when I take office, and thank you for your support,
Forget about more circular roads/lanes/tolls.
Elon Musk always looks to helping the future and has the answer to traffic congestion with tunnels.
To the government: google Elon Musk is boring and so must you.
Absolute idiots you put more tolls on it you force people into neighbourhoods to avoid tolls,
Police the damn road properly first if you want a toll put one on the southside as well as the northside, forget the port tunnel its a big white elephant as its to expensive to use
They can’t even protect one toll Gantry & now they want to put in more easy targets. Idiots
@TONY ROCHFORD: if a gantry is only docking 50c or so you’re hardly going to be inclined to go to the effort of pulling-over, climbing it and vandalising it. Dispersing the charge throughout the route is fairer for everybody.
You should see the queues at rush-hour of traffic waiting to cross over the Liffey bridge at Lucan. Reduce the toll over the Liffey and you’ll ease that traffic through Lucan & Chapelizod.
Buy Bitcoin
Would common sense not kick in… if you start charging more for using the roads that road tax pays for… people would start avoiding these roads. I go around the toll when and where i can.
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