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A MAN WHO sent offensive letters to his neighbours over a seven-year period in England has been jailed and handed a 20-year restraining order.
Johnathon Warner-Johnson, 52, of Wellhouse Road in Beckenham, a district of London, was sentenced to two years and four months’ imprisonment at Croydon Crown Court on 16 August.
He pleaded guilty to one count of criminal damage and two counts of stalking. He must also pay £1,959 (about €2,125) in compensation.
The court heard that between 2009 and 2016 Warner-Johnson maliciously targeted a married couple who had lived on the same street as him for many years.
In a statement released today, the Metropolitan Police said Warner-Johnson sent the couple “more than 200 derogatory letters as part of a hate mail campaign causing significant alarm and distress”.
He accused his neighbours of paedophilia and wrote cruel letters about a family relative who had Down’s syndrome.
Warner-Johnson later damaged their car as well as their son’s vehicle, damaged their fence and sprayed their plants and lawn with weed killer.
To disguise his activity, Warner-Johnson pretended to receive the same hate letters. His neighbours confided in him about their anguish, unaware he was the cause, police said.
CCTV footage
Police were alerted to the letters in 2009 and became suspicious of Warner-Johnson in June 2016 when a letter was received purporting to be from another neighbour. The writing matched the previous letters and information in the letter had only been shared with Warner-Johnson.
The victims reviewed the CCTV they had recently installed at their property and caught Warner-Johnson throwing rubbish into their rear garden and spraying weed killer in the front garden at 5.26am on 20 July 2016.
Police arrested Warner-Johnson on 2 December 2016 after viewing the footage, and found a folder containing copies of the letters and address stickers. He was charged on 13 April with one count of criminal damage and two counts of stalking. His motive is not known.
Detective Constable Liz Truan said: “Over a seven-year period, Warner-Johnson launched a calculated, malicious campaign against his neighbours.
“His hate campaign brought significant alarm and distress to them over a prolonged period and it is right he has been jailed and handed such a long restraining order.”
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If they had of done more to protect the vulnerable then this wouldn’t have happened. It was the Catholic Church as an institution that let people down. Now its the Catholic Church as an institution that is being lambasted. Fair hunting I think.
Yes indeed Joe – shame is the only applicable word.
Now, I gave you a green thumb cos for the most part I agree, but (playing devils advocate) there are a lot of priests, my own local one included, who are ashamed of and speak out at how the hierarchy have handled these cases. A few Irishmen in the IRA does not make us all terrorists. Same logic applies. A lot of good priests, good men, are being tarnished with the same “you’re either a pedo or you covered it up” brush. Most of them aren’t, and didn’t know either.
Also just to point out, before people start shouting anything about religion blah blah, I’m an atheist, but that doesn’t mean I agree with with hunting an entire group because of the actions of a few
Well said Amy. There are 1 or 2 idiot journalists in the Irish Times. They wouldn’t like us to call all of them idiots…
They do have the option to walk away from an organisation involved with this kind of cover up . So does everybody else who puts their coins in the plate.
@Amy. The cartoon in question relates to canon law and official Church policy, – not “the actions of the few”. This policy applies to, is upheld by and defended by pretty much all members of the clergy, – at least we can say not one of them has spoken out against it.
At a Church policy level, – in the context of confession the rights of the Abuser/Pedophile trump the future protection of a little child from sexual abuse and rape. This is what that cartoon relates to,.
Tim Minchin’s The Pope song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEn0px0uJZQ
“are a lot of priests, my own local one included, who are ashamed of and speak out at how the hierarchy have handled these cases”
If I was a member of an organisation that covered up and supported the rape of children, I would quit that organisation and I certainly would not continue to give them money.
If I worked for an organisation that did the same and the CEO managed to get away with it without even getting sacked, I would quit my job and not support that organisation with my labour.
In neither case would I continue to support the organisation. To do so would be immoral.
Jimbo, not if you were a brainwashed simpleton.
Here here Paddy. And the so-called recovered Catholics that go to mass at Christmas and Easter to appease their mum who still has them by the apron-strings.
Paddy why would people walk away from their religion because of the evil that some bad bad people did..
Seriously, Would we stop kids going to school cos teachers abused etc etc..
What they did was disgraceful & should be punished but you can’t reasonably condemn people who still practice their faith..
Serious question, not intended to offend, but I truly do not understand why Catholics who are outraged by this whole debacle don’t ditch Catholicism and become Christians?
Judging by how Jesus dealt with the Pharisees it’s pretty clear that he would have been the most vocal critic of the church in this whole ordeal.
They are just middle men, Jesus said his father would not be found in a temple, so why continue to hold this organisation up on a pedestal when the faith itself is separate? Why not just live your life by Jesus example and worship from the heart?
By all means, keep the faith if that’s your thing.. It’s the choice to keep supporting the Vatican that baffles me..
You don’t need to be Catholic to pray to god. You don’t need to pony up every Sunday to hear some guy spout the rethoric of an organisation mired in filth. The money you drop in their plate pays for this to continue. You have free will. You have the choice to walk away. Use it.
They have no shame and they’re still trying to minimise the damage they did first and foremost to the children, their parents and families; to Catholics and the wider community and lastly to the church itself. I don’t think they have much right to cry victim.
Exactly. It’s not something I have any faith in, but the reason I say this is because I know people who ditched Catholicism and turned to Christianity – and these were the reasons that they cited.
Well Catholics are Christians!
Catholic is universal, open to everyone not like in Old Test which was God talking to Jews direct..
We choose to stay because we believe in the teaching of Jesus.
Of course he would not be happy with the corruption in the church today..
Not one Catholic or Christian or anyone would not approve what they done..
Not all Priests are bad but all are being tarred the same which is unfortunate.
All I can do is Live MY life as best I can.
@Shanti, in a lot of cases it is fear. My father is pushing on now, he quite dislikes the church but I think he would fear not being buried in his local graveyard along with his relatives over the years, – really thats about it that has him going through the motions. I suspect that there are more like him in this respect.
Yes Bridget, Catholics are Christians – but not all Christians are catholic.
There seems to be many branches of Christianity – my question is why stick with that one sect rather than another? Surely a movement em masse, including the priests who condemn this unchristian behaviour would have sent the message to the church that they had crossed the line?
There have been schisms over a lot less in the past.
Well if that is his only fear he may not need worry to much because if you have family members there they will burry you as well, even if you don’t attend Mass, well at least in our parish..
Also even if your not from parish & wish to be buried then you can buy the plot eg lots from Scotland, England etc
You admit that your church is corrupt yet you choose to support it. There is nothing stopping you from practicing your faith away from it. God is open to everyone. You dont need the blessing of Rome to experience his presence and you don’t need to support the Catholic Church to do so. And as for the Catholic church being ‘open to everyone’ ???? Better people than me have been shuned and excomunicated for questioning its power.
The reason I stick to Catholic is because I believe it is the one true faith..
It can trace its origins right back to Jesus Christ..
Other branches of Christianity broke off at diff stages in our history for various reason..
I’m sure you know all the stories, Henry VIII, his reasons, Calvin, etc etc
It would not be an option for me to change to another Christian religion because to me they are not the same..
We believe in the same God but worship Him in diff ways but to be honest I’m sure you know this already..
Over the Years I grew to hate the church over all the stories I had read . I stopped believing in god never went to church . Until one day I went to my sisters the local priest was visiting and she asked me to speak with him. Well after a good rant on my part he said something both simple and profound. Don’t let the bad deeds done by the the church keep you away from god if you can’t find god in the church then find him where ever you can don’t give up on god just because you’ve given up on the catholic church. So that’s what I do I find god where I can and leave the church to its self.
There is no shelf life on this one……. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ9sJVJMiYM
The Irish Tines full stop is an Atheist paper full stop, anything in it bout the church is negative, any polls that have been done are negative, I doubt anyone that’s doing these polls even attend church services at all, the Irish have to apologise full stop I doubt it, we in my family only get it as my dad was a sale rep for the paper.
No, you’re entirely wrong. That’s a ridiculous statement. I’m not a catholic, christian or an atheist and the Irish Times is my favourite paper and I have a great respect for it and many of its journalists. I wish people like you and many in the catholic church would stop being so arrogant. Just because others don’t follow your religion doesn’t make them atheists. This probably why I find more in common with atheists, they’re just more respectful of different beliefs and the validity of those many varying belief systems.
Some of them are not very respectfully on here to be honest..
Even so…A group of people preaching hate day in day out and telling me I’m a sinner and disordered simply for loving another consenting adult is not exactly warm and friendly. You can wrap it up like love and an attempt to “help” my soul but its still hatred and untrue. When the catholic church and its followers begin to treat the LGBT community and women with more respect I might have a kind word to say for them. Until that time, I have more respect for even the disrespectful ones here.
I have faith in my Catholic beliefs, but none in the Catholic church, to me they are 2 different entities.
But the people are the “church” not just the priests or the buildings..
Paddy
Our religions isn’t corrupt, some people in it are, there’s a big difference..
Evil people did evil things but that should not put people off practicing their faith, even though it is very disheartening. ..
Amy how do you know they aren’t Paedos or they don’t know the ones who are. The problem is none of us know for sure whether they are or not or whether they know or not. Add to the fact that all priests can be safe in the knowledge that another priest won’t shop them to the authorities if they confess a sin of child rape . This makes it all the harder to distinguish a priest who could be a threat to children from one who isn’t . So long as they continue a policy of cover up at the highest level the Catholic Church should be perceived as current and potential threat to the welfare of children.
Well said Paddy and that money that’s dropped in the plate also goes to the welfare of priests who have committed child rape and a hierarchy that protects them. I’ve shared this link before however I feel it can shed a bit more light on why child abuse is so prolific in the church and why we should never let our guard down when it comes to the church and the threat to the most valuable and vulnerable members of society , our children.
http://voicelessvictim.wordpress.com/tag/reasons-why-child-rape-common-in-catholic-church/
If the people are the church then it should be easier to walk away from the corrupt leaders. Start a weekly mass/prayer meeting in your home.Priests are not magical beings. If people are truly the church as you put why do you need the blessing of a man in Rome? Aren’t you able to hear Gods message without him laying down the rules?
Let me put it this way. I am a Christian. I am also a Roman Catholic. I am intelligent enough to be able to distinguish between the teachings of my Saviour Jesus Christ and the sinful behaviour of some priests or, as Pope Francis put it, many priests, and the weakness of the bishops who covered it up. However any fair observer should acknowledge that the Church has made great strides in introducing robust child-safety measures to ensure as far as possible that past horrors are not repeated. My biggest continuing concern in this matter is that no Pope has as yet specifically apologised for the failures of the hierarchy in this regard.
As to why I remain a member of the Catholic Church, I believe that my church represents the fullest Apostolic Tradition and I rely on its various sacraments for my spiritual journey. In that light I could not in conscience leave the Church.
Robust child safety measures! Are you having a laugh. Child rape was always a crime, yet it didn’t stop clerics from carrying out those crimes ! Your deluded if you think for one minute that the church’s safety measure will make any difference to a child raping cleric. What they need to introduce is Jesus justice . It consists of a millstone tied around the abusing clerics neck and a long walk of a short pier .
What measures?
The only measures should be: “stay the hell away from”.
End of.
People have prayer groups in their homes all over the world..
That is not the same as Mass..
Nobody thinks Priests are magical!
The Eucharist cannot be consecrated without an validly ordained priest..
It is the ordained priest who, acting in the person of Christ, brings about the eucharistic sacrifice and offers it to God in the name of all the people..
So no we cannot do without our Priests..
What about the parents,government and Irish society as a whole? This abuse did not happen in isolation. The cover up was societal, before this country can move on, this fact needs to be acknowledged and addressed.
The Lord will punish as he sees fit. As for the rest of your rant why don’t you even consult the Church’s child protection measures. Thousands of people have been trained in parishes all over the country in enforcing protection, supervising and reporting. A new crop of bishops are giving firm leadership in their diocese in this regard. You may not wish to acknowledge it but the Church is now a much safer place for children.
I did not rant, I merely pointed out a fact. And as an educator I am fully aware that most abuse happens within family units. The point was clerical abuse could not have been so widespread if society as a whole had not turned a blind eye.
You say that you don’t think that priests are magical beings and in your very next sentense that only they can consecrate the eucharist. Unless they are somehow different from other people why is it only they can do this. Why do you as beliver in God need them and only them to preform the blessing?
Members of the church needed training on how NOT to sexually abuse children?
On how NOT to ignore others doing so & reporting it.
The Irish times is anti catholic full stop Tomas, if don’t see this well good luck to you, any poll church related is always voting for not against , gay marriage for, abortion for , everything is for never against so it seems the paper is anti catholic, the journal paddy Agnew wrote a horrible article on Pope John Paul yet Paddy is not a religious journalist he should stick to what he knows best and religion is not one, how his article got out in the paper is a worry, someone should have stopped pAddy’s article in the times but they saw not to and that proves a lot , anti catholic.
agree Aidan, the Irish Times is very strongly anti catholic. It seems the whole atmosphere – even to work there seems toxic.
The senior journalist & religious correspondent at the IT is Patsy McGarry, who is very anti clerical.
He pretended to befriend & support the journalist John Waters, all the while abusing & sneering him, under an anonymous Twitter account.
It doesn’t get much lower than that.
John Waters tells the whole story in the latest edition of the ‘Village’ magazine. The whole working environment of the Irish Times seemed completely toxic.
McGarrys twitter account. Most of the abusive tweets since mysteriously disappeared.
https://twitter.com/Thomas2805607
The ‘Irish Times’ used to be known as a ‘quality’ newspaper – not any more.
Watch out Zoe..
You are making accusations about someone on a public forum based upon second hand information. The evidence you present does not back up your claims, you say the offensive tweets have been deleted yourself – can you prove this? Can John Waters? I heard him say he doesn’t do the whole twitter thing so did he even see anything first hand?
Perhaps you don’t quite understand how the Internet works.. If offensive tweets were EVER put up on twitter, then they are still there, even when deleted. Because there is this little thing called caching.
Now. If offensive tweets were put up, you and your the martyr are off the hook.. On the other hand, if the cached version of that newsfeed doesn’t contain any “abusive” tweets then the accusation is defamatory..
I did explain to you before that you were toddling down a dangerous alleyway there.. I feel obliged to point it out to you again lest you cause yourself any undue trouble.
It is not a safer place for children there were always laws against child rape it didn’t stop clerics from raping children or the church covering it up then and it certainly won’t stop them from doing it now. The church still has a policy of cover up and punishing whistleblowers only a fool would trust them .
John Waters a journalist???? Ha, Ha, Ha, he was merely a self-righteous, deluded, self-centered, horrible, bitter little columnist punching way beyond his weight writing for the Irish Times.
Well said Amy.
Zoe, Patsy McGarry is a journalist. He’s not a Christian or a Muslim journalist. If he was the IT Political Correspondent based in the USSR would he have to be a Communist? I would imagine any journalist that covered the Irish Catholic Church over the last few decades would now be very anti-clerical. When Patsy McGarry has covered issues and his pieces were perceived not to support the Catholic position he got abusive mail.
He once told me, “No one hates like a Christian.” I totally understood that. (Although in the light of recent events I think Muslims have brought hate to a whole new level.) Murdering cartoonists is far worse than getting a anti-clerical cartoon pulled in Ireland as happened this week.
Aidan, I would dispute your claim that the Irish Times is anti-catholic. Despite this your original comment said the paper is atheist and that is the assertion which I disputed. I was pointing out the arrogance and ignorance you were displaying in equating atheism with simply non-catholicism. Please pay attention to what people are actually saying in the future rather than what you’d like them to be saying.
On the bright side, more people have now seen the cartoon than would ever have been the case had Diarmuid Martin just kept his gob shut.
Thanks. I’ve shared it on FB. If everyone does the same it might go viral. :)
PS One of my favourite books – Dune.
But the cartoon was very offensive to everyone who’s a Catholic, there are very good priests in Ireland and there names are dragged in the mud, if you don’t want to attend church fine but stop blaming the priests for not going it’s a sad and stupid excuse to not go, does anyone know that a priest has abused a child I doubt it, again all excuses.
Aidan, the churches policy is to protect those that have abided children are you saying that is ok
I don’t go to church and haven’t since I was old enough to tell my parents I didn’t want to, as I grew older I learnt the catholic church was in bed with the Nazis, knew of the rape and sexual abuse of children and covered it up and even swore children to secrecy. Catholic church in Ireland disgusts me.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with priest actions against the vulnerable.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the likelihood that at least some priests will regard the confessional seal as more important than reporting when they have had a confession which could range from a suspicion that a child is at risk to confirmation directly from an abuser of abuse.
This issue is one of dogma potentially offering solace to an abuser while remaining complicit in allowing that abuse to continue.
It’s call confession Our Lord forgives a sin in confession but no one tells a priest he raped someone at confession, again excuses
How was the Catholic Church in bed with the nazis this is stupid talk ur comment is outrageous ur excuse to not go to church is lacking an excuse, not every priest has done wrong and I doubt any did any harm in ur parish just u don’t want to attend church and it’s excuse using rape or child abuse as an excuse it’s lame as a duck. Will u tell Our Lord that rape and child abuse abuse was an excuse, you’ll be in purgatory for a long time saying these things to Our Lord.
No one tells a priest he raped a child, so where do so many who have clicked me with a thumb down get this, if u don’t want to attend church don’t go and stop the excuses they are all lame excuses.
Aidan, Aidan, Aidan. .. *shakes head* go home, you’re drunk. Or easily led, or a priest. Whatever it is, naivety seems to play a big part!
Niall ur led, led by negative thinking and and an excuse to not attend church, if u know a priest who abused this year who is he, I doubt u can.
Aidan I don’t go as I’m an atheist and have no interest, especially the Roman Catholic version who tried to run this country as a theocracy for many years. As for Turners cartoon, its funny cos its true.
Aidan, you’re a g0bshite!
Child abuse does not have to go to rape, get an education or a dictionary you donk.
Oh Pidgeon, relax.
Too many people have come forward with claims and evidence of abuse physical and sexual of both priests and nuns. Going to church does not constitute being a good Catholic. Living a good life praying to our lord and trying to live a good Christian life and trying to obey the ten commandments is what I believe being a good Catholic is about. Our lord held children and their innocence above all else for anyone to do such things to children and when it suits them then hide behind the uniform of God tell me its how God wanted this to be a way to live in his image and uphold his values.
Adrian, the cartoon was NOT offensive to “everyone” who’s a Catholic. Only to those like yourself who place protecting paedophiles above children. The sex offenders register should have an addendum for people like you.
Aidan, you’re clearly very devout and that’s your business. But eager as you are to defend the church, understand this: there have been several cases in Ireland and the US of paedophile priests being reported to their colleagues by the local community and being moved to another parish without the proper state authorities being informed. In these cases the offending priest’s confession was considered a good enough guarantee that he was remorseful and wouldn’t do it again. The fact that such actions were defended all the way up to the Vatican shows the RCC, at least then, cared more about its own rules and reputation than the rights of children. Today we have a law that seeks to compel anyone with knowledge of abuse to report it. Guess what? Priests are saying they value the confessional seal over the protection of children, yet again. Can you see where we’re all coming from now?
“The church was in bed with the Nazi’s”?? And of course the rest of occupied Europe openly fought the
Occupying forces .and certainly the president of Ireland didn’t sign the book of condolences on Hitler’s Death
I read an article about the numbers of priests who abuse children. Statistically there is no increase. So if say Y% of men are child abusers, then Y% of priests will be.
So I have no reason to expect a priest would be a child abuser any more than I’d expect anyone else to be.
However, the church systematically protected the priests who were abusing children. They covered up their crimes and relocated them. The church oversaw horrific institutions where child abuse, both sexual and non sexual, was rampant.
To say that the church has an issue with reporting child abuse is not an exaggeration and it’s fair game for a joke.
I wonder how many people will be murdered because of THIS religious based satire?
Let me guess …. None.
Blind ignorant idiot
The truth obviously hurt. Shame on The Irish Times for backing down.
For crying out loud Irish Times! You’d better have a good explanation. If this is simply cowardice or toadyism you’ll lose every last shred of credibility.
Potential loss of sales perhaps?
Alas Jane, that establishment rag lost any credibility it ever had a long time ago! So much for freedom of expression. Good job theDanish newspapers had more balls than the Irish Times when they faced death threats from extremist muslims over the publishing of the Mohamed cartoon. Just shows what cowards those who run the Irish times really are to be frightened off by the men in black yet again. Pure cowardice from a so called National Newspaper, has anyone pointed out the publishing date is 2014 not 1914.
You’re quite right, Ed.
You’d think there’s more than a degree of hypocrisy here from Diarmuid Martin, he says he’s “a strong believer in freedom of speech and the vital role of satire in social criticism”. He promptly goes on to say why this case is somehow different and attempts to justify his objection to the cartoon.
If mandatory reporting in the Children’s First Bill means that priests will have to report any concerns of children at risk, and this will include anything they may be told in confession then I personally don’t have a problem with that. The church can’t claim it want’s do all it can to help children, particularly those at risk… but when it comes to the one place priests are likely to be told or hear such information, sorry, they won’t reveal it. Even if it means doing what they claimed, helping the most vulnerable children.
In this regard that cartoon was very accurate, they’ll say they WILL do anything for children, but when it comes down to it, they won’t do that.
What the hell is happening to freedom of expression?
The content and message of the cartoon are true, I really wish the catholic church would just p!ss off and die out already
…they are.
I bet you would not see a cartoon mocking Gays, Blacks or travellers. When it comes to priests is fine to generalise and mock the many about the sins of a few.
A few? The practise of not reporting child rape was widespread.
Being gay, black or a traveller isn’t a choice, being a child abusing cleric is
I’d lambast any group that, as a whole, refused to pass information about child abusers to the authorities. In this case it just so happens to be the RCC.
I see what you are trying to say but the catholic church is an institution so mocking its officials and policies is not the same as mocking a racial group or mocking people based on their sexual preference.
The target the abusers.. Not the innocent. Unless generalising is the norm now.
Being a priest is a choice, not sure being a paedophile is.
“I bet you would not see a cartoon mocking Gays, Blacks or travellers.”
Obviously you don’t pay much attention as we recently had Brenda Power do an actual article stereotyping travellers, an entire social group, and the right-wing defended that.
Now we have a cartoon opposing a _specific_ policy by a _specific_ religious hierarchy and the right-wing have that censored.
P.
Actually Jason, there is a psychiatric school of thought that says that Paedophilia is completely a matter of choice, just as much as being a priest.
@Jane, a school of thought maybe, but that’s not fact. There are studies that show that paedophilia is an illness also. I don’t pretend to know, but I’m not sure people would choose to harm kids, it must be some sort of chemical or psychiatric imbalance. It’s evil whatever it is but is it a conscious choice, ie, freewill or is it something internally wrong?
Oh I agree Jason, it’s still conjecture. Interesting though, when contrasted with the fact that we’ve always been told it was an illness, a compunction that paedophiles couldn’t help. It’ll be very interesting to read further research in the future.
Are you serious there was a complete article mocking travellers just a few days ago
The church still has enormous influence in the press in this country.
Too bloody much, by the look of it. Removing those cartoons has destroyed any credible claim to press freedom as far as the IT goes. Cowards and lily-livered placemen to the anachronistic holy bullies. Medieval Ireland in the 21st century, no wonder the country’s f***ed, between the church and the politicians.
Legal action?
Iona looking for a few more quid?
Therapy for depression doesn’t come cheap ;)
Iona are the only institute funded directly from cowardice
Absolutely nothing to do with the Iona institute. They aren’t even mentioned, anywhere.
Against whom?
Who cares they may take offence anyways. There is no stopping them now from being offended at least they got a mention:) Thankfully they have tarnished themselves badly that they are ridiculed by everyone so maybe their notions won’t take float as easily next time.
It dosent mattering here Jason
I guess ireland is still a backward catholic dogma dominated cesspool
Sean, almost every comment you make bashes either Ireland or the Irish. If you hate it so much, why are you still here?
I have family and responsibilities here that I can’t walk away from. Ireland has failed me consistently for my entire life. I am embarrassed to call myself irish. Im very interested in history and I am seriously embarrassed by the history of the republic. We are the most pathetic nation in western civilization, and it gets worse every year. I feel like it’s my responsibility to balance out those who blindly think it is great being irish.
Ask not what your contry can do for you rather what you can do for your country. So, what have you done for Ireland lately?
If you really think it’s that bad here, surely you owe it to your family to get them out? You’re going to doom your children to growing up in the most “pathetic nation in Western Europe”?
You think anything is your own fault? Personal responsibility doesn’t come into it at all? If your problem is just being Irish, I suggest that no matter where you were born you would be the same as you are.
Isn’t Belgium the most pathetic country in the western civilisation?
The church has only themselves to blame, they denied, covered up, put pressure on victims families, guards and politicians and still to this day are protecting Bernard Francis Law wanted by American authorities on mass cover up off child abuse. Everywhere they can the church will try to enforce its own dogmatic principles and its paramount that the media can challenge them without fear of offence or legal action.
Everyone in the Catholic Church weren’t involved in abuse but being part of it still makes you somewhat complicit.
The comedian Bill Maher likened being a member of the church to being a mafia wife. You may not be responsible but it doesn’t admonish you from blame.
I have to ask how much abuse has been done at home you don’t hear off it. Other faiths do worse, Muslims can kill you never hear of such hatred as you get from so many.
If Any priest has abused a child may God Bless him as he will have to meet His and our maker and be judged heavier as he was chosen to lead our church, but this cartoon was sick, not funny, I am insulted by the cartoon. As for the comment on the church dying it won’t ever and thank God. It’s last this long and will last forever.
The sheer magnitude of the known number of rape and abuse scandals committed by Catholics clerics is astounding . In some cases single perps abused up to a thousand individuals . This really puts a fly in the ointment argument by apologists that you’ve more of a chance of being raped at home by a family member.
If anyone is in doubt about the scale of crimes committed by the Catholic Church please find a link to a spread sheet which has been put together for those who may be interested in proving a point https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AiDFKCpLviw8dHJnczI2NG1TdkpIMnQxLTZpVFZxMVE&hl=en_US
“If any priest has abused a child may God bless him as he will have to meet His and our maker”. Possibly the most disturbing thing said on this thread. At the very most you insinuate that God is all he has to worry about for being a child rapist, and at the very least you insinuate that he’s above the law. You are warped, delusional and dangerously brain-washed to even come out with such a statement.
Holding the church to account for the sins of some of its adherents is healthy for the church and society. People like the late Christine Buckley and Marie Collins are modem Irish heroes. This cartoon is not healthy or helpful however. It is hateful and untrue of the vast majority of priests. As a priest myself I object most strenuously to this depiction as is my right. It also associates, yet again, paedophilia and child abuse with priesthood which is not true.
Yeah how dare anyone associate those things with priests…. Oh wait
Would you break the seal of confession if you were made aware of child abuse?
If not you are complicit as is the organisation that insist that it’s representatives do not report child abuse
Priest to Pope knew what was going on and did nothing to prevent it. We are not talking about just the Child rapists but those who turned a blind eye to what was going on. Rather than turn the Child rapists over to the authorities the Church fed the Priests more victims.
“It also associates, yet again, paedophilia and child abuse with priesthood”…no, I would hazard a guess that it was the sickening levels of child abuse and paedophilia inherent in the priesthood that did that
Has there ever been a priest whistleblower?
@Phillip, – Wait for the apologists to come out with the old lies that the levels of clerical abuse are in line with overall levels in society, Let’s pre-empt that before they arrive, – the levels of abuse were inordinate given the comparatively low numbers of men in the clergy, – this is evident in reasearch, eg. The SAVI report.
So, are you saying, as a priest, you will be breaking the seal of confession and reporting child abuse? Because as far as I can see, this cartoon is pointing out that all priests will not be following the law and will be putting the confessional seal before the welfare of a child. It is not saying anything that is not true. Or has the catholic church changed its standing on this?
Daithi, objecting to the publication of the cartoon is like when people start a sentence with, “I’m not racist, but . . . . ” . You know the next part is going to be wrong. I don’t doubt that the cartoon makes uncomfortable viewing for the staff, just the same as a bank clerk gets tarred with the same brush as the crooks in the bank who broke the country.
If you are a priest then you know what has been done by the abusers is WRONG. You know that anyone in charge who has concealed abuse or shielded abusers from the consequences is WRONG.
To think otherwise or to act complicitly with knowledge of these wrongs is indefensible. Don’t try to defend the indefensible. Those in the church who have not sinned have been let down by the abuser, along with the victims of abuse. By adopting a zero tolerance position and handing abusers over to the authorities to answer for their wrongdoing you are being charitable and helping the abuser to be treated and prevented from further transgression. That is legally, morally and theologically the right thing to do. It would benefit the church if this was seen to be done more clearly and more often.
This pope has come out to apologise full stop, he’s getting cardinals to work at it trying to help any who want was abused he’s doing his best, no pope has covered any abuse up so please stop this rubbish your saying, they more help and if they can’t get help what can you do, again if you don’t want to attend mass don’t go , stop with anti church or pope talking, it’s annoying now.
An apology isn’t worth anything if the church will continue to hide abusers and their crimes, which it is continuing to do. He effectively is saying… I’m sorry about the child abusers .. but I will continue to protect those who do wrong.. doesn’t quite seem like the apology is all that sincere.. Add to that the wording of the apology and really it was more an insult than an apology.
Aiden multiple reports including one from the UN have confirmed the Vatican have shielded and protected child abusers from prosecution. The pope is the head if the Vatican and therefore
Responsible
Let’s face it Daiti you and your brethren have a pretty piss poor record at speaking out against the hierarchy for protecting and facilitating the whole scale rape of children internationally . We’re talking about many thousands internationally . When have you ever stood up in the pulpit and condemned your hierarchy and the clerical child rapist ? When have you personally demanded justice and the support of your followers in seeking that justice for victims ? when have you taken to the streets to campaign for justice for the victims and survivors ? And why don’t you and your church not demand the justice that Jesus prescribed for child abusers , the punishment of being drowned with a millstone around their neck ? That was the one crime Jesus would never forgive yet your church protected and still continues to protect abusers to this day.
AIDAN that is pure Bull . Look at this website if you want to find evidence of what the popes knew. http://www.bishopaccountability.org
Please Do your research before you spout any more arse water comments!
Ah Daithi it’s not like your kind to reveal themselves from the shadows like you’ve just done. Why don’t you scurry back and post under an alias like the rest of your jesuit brethren .
Thousand ! I meant to say millions !
They moan about a cartoon but will still not report pedophiles who confess about it in confession!! If they fail to report it they should be jailed simple as!! Religion does not trump the law of the land!
Reporting from confession is self defeating argument. Do you honestly think that a person is going to confess if they are going to be reported.. Also most priests don’t know who comes to confession.
Imagine what paedo priest say to each other in the confessional. No doubt they’d get off on sharing their vile exploits , safe in the knowledge that one won’t sell the other out to the authorities.
Most of us baptised/christened (is there a/ny difference?) into the Catholic faith whether lapsed or not would generally take solace from being able to slip into the Confession box & list off ones sins and are certainly anxious to do so as one reaches the end of ones natural life.
I’ve often thought about confessing certain behaviours (not crimes mind, haven’t committed m/any worth reporting, I fecked a Tomato & Cheese Pizza from Dunnes in Clondalkin in Mid-00s but I paid for the rest of my shopping in fairness, about €60 worth if that’s any good?) but what’s put me off is that most Priests esp. in the smaller Parishes do know you, the Parishioner by voice surely & they can quite easily, clearly see through the wire mesh that separates you from the Priest listening to you trotting out the usual “I did a bold thing” or “I said something bad” tripe.
It’s what’s put and what puts me off going to Confession locally that’s for sure. If I ever do go again, it’ll be to a randomer Priest in a Diocese or Parish far away from mine & I’m fecked if I’m a gonna remember when my last Confession was either too! I’ll throw a guess right now & say 2000s sometime?
That newspaper has lost the plot.
Despite the fact that the atheists are going to have a field day, it’s unlikely the image was withdrawn because a number of priests were offended. I think it’s obvious that it’s not blasphemous, but it is poor taste in making light of a rather serious issue. How a leading national newspaper will justify its retraction is going to be most interesting.
Unbelievable they feel hurt about the cartoon. What were they feeling when the children of ireland were subjected to years of abuse at the hands of priest and it was all covered up. Sickening
I think there’s a reference in the Christian Bible (in a parable, if I remember correctly) to the effect of, “As ye sow, so shall ye reap”. This is what the church is doing right now, harvesting the derision and anger of the people it has let down by the actions of a few of its staff. Yea, as did the banks and also the politicians.
No sympathy for any of them who cannot speak up against evil. Where’s the honourable whistleblowers among them?
Jesus would be disgusted.
Apparently the Irish Times is not familiar with the Streisand Effect.
The worst cartoonist I have ever seen. His comments and cartoons are not clever by any means.
He’s the most clever cartoonist of his genre I have ever come across and he’s recognised as such. In fact if you read other newspapers, their cartoonists aren’t a patch on Martin.
More of a Beano man then?
Fred, it took a few seconds for that to click. :)
@william grogan – I agree the cartoonist is among the top of his profession and certainly the best in Ireland. I think Steve Bell and Martin Rowson in the “Guardian” are better. If Bell had taken a pop at the priesthood it would have been a LOT less kind to them than the Martin cartoon, the clerics would, maybe, have had something to bitch about.
The truth hurts
I heard meat loaf wasn’t happy
The Journal is obviously a little more “liberal” , My Lars Vilks Muhammad’s head on a dog avatar hasnt been banned yet. ;-) ,Mulsims arent the only ones that hate freedom of expression
My comment disappeared faster than an Irish Time Cartoon
So did mine.
Well they couldn’t have been very nice then!
No comment could be as vile as supporting an organisation that works to protect members who sexually violate children.
Well obviously not or it would have been removed too..
You are speaking about a number of individuals, not the entire church.
The church is the one covering the rapists.
Organisational protection which continues today.
How one can be a member of a fruity little club that protects & supports those who rape children is beyond me.
What makes me sick here is what’s the main argument these VERY SAME people will be making if this stupid / unnecessary marriage referendum goes forward? Oh the children its not good for the children, and the 15% or so who b voting no will nod their heads without seeing any irony or hypocrisy
Out with the Popcorn……..
Hurt? Considering the how the church gets confused with words like pleasure, pain and torture I’m amazed they even know what hurt means. Perhaps it means they liked it.
Definitely not Martyn Turners finest offering but freedom of expression is surely paramount and let the people decide for themselves.
I’m disappointed and surprised that Bishop Diarmuid Martin was silly enough to engage in an attempted gagging. I like the guy but I don’t think he has any authority on what we do or don’t get to see.
ps …. Not one bit surprised at the Irish Times for caving in.
Todays Irish Times is a pretty feeble hapless outfit at t best .
How could you be surprised, nearly all their opinion writers are right wing Catholics.
Thanks to the journal for publishing it for those of us who can’t afford a daily paper
Obviously journal.ie is pretty hostile to catholics..
Yep
No….. Its hostile to kiddy-fiddlers & those who work hard to support & protect same kiddy-fiddlers.
This is the RCC down to a tee.
And hostility to those individuals is understandable but unfortunately that’s not the case in general on here.
It is the institution that supports rapist priests.
It covered for the child-rapists.
It Iied for the child-rapists.
It smeared victims of the child-rapists.
To this day it supports its child-rapist members.
Its important to remember, blame does not just rest on the rapist, but on the organisation that moved mountains to protect those same rapists.
Any person who thinks the rape of a child is unacceptable cannot support an organisation so completely devoted to the protection of its members who sexually violate children.
The journal readers and commenters are not hostile to Catholics, or Christians. They are only hostile to predators, who pretend to be those. Look to science. Two, to three per cent of people are born without a conscience. They inhabit all walks of life. Politics, finance, religion etc. paedophiles are no different. We are dealing with socially adept psychopaths here. They are, to use a biblical phrase, legion.
We have great cartoonist too ;)
**s
I’ve posted the cartoon on my Facebook page.
I’ve tweeted the cartoon !
I do wish that Diarmuid Martin would have acted as quickly and others like him (Cardinal Sean Brady) to report the malignant conduct of their priests for child abuse as quickly as they have demanded the removal of this cartoon; it might have saved many children’s childhoods from the appalling abuse they suffered and who remain traumatized by it all..
Why would he report rapist priests when he & his colleagues worked & continue to work to protect those same rapists today?
This is back to the future.
Back to the time when nothing public was said or done without the blessing of our Bishops or the obedient priests.
Irish Times shame on you for bowing to this medevil institution.
I know some lovely men who happen to be priests, but I’m wondering if the bishop has a voice to speak out about how words were “hurting” their priests, were was this voice when their priests were hurting our country’s children
Truth hurts.
I know two lovely men who happen to be priests, but I have to wonder how the bishop found a voice to object to words hurting the priests, grown men by the way, and where was this voice when the priests were hurting the children of our country, who were “only children”, would yous all grow up and grow a pair.
All committed Catholics should stop buying The Irish Times!
Sad reflection on The Editor!
I will not buy The Irish Times in the future!
Won’t be much of a hit to sales then!
Did Catholics buy it much in the first place? it was always seen as a protestant news paper.
fully agree Dermot. It is a viciously anti catholic paper.
One of the reasons the Irish Times is so antagonistic to the Church, is that they have a strong Pro Abortion agenda.
They see the Church as standing in the way of a liberal ‘abortion on demand’ regime.
They apparently will not even allow their own reporters, to use the term ‘Pro Life’. (So much for freedom of speech).
They look up to the wonderfully liberal abortion laws in Britain – but never report stories (like below) to their readers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10717566/Aborted-babies-incinerated-to-heat-UK-hospitals.html
All committed Catholics should stop financially supporting a corrupt organisation that has a policy of protecting its child raping clerics.
All committed Catholics should be asking their hierarchy why they still haven’t paid reparations in full to the victims of their abuses? All committed Catholics should also ask themselves how they can continue defending and supporting an institution that would treat said victims this way?
Zoe do you actually like children ?
Would you please open your closed mind and let some fresh air in…. child abuse by priests is a matter of record regardless what your beliefs are…….
The strange thing is, John Waters made many a comment whilst working for the Irish Times, with quite a few criticisms, and very little was done whilst he worked there – until the Pantigate saga when he left.
But Waters’ often said that when cartoons create controversy, they should be reprinted in the name of free speech. He, and Ian O’Doherty, were two of the journalists who said the Mohammed Cartoons (remember them, the ones that caused all that hubbub and led to a fatwa on the cartoonist?) should be reprinted across the world to make a stand for free speech.
So why are the Irish Times claiming to remove the cartoons (even when the Irish Times link, provided by Paul Atreides, still points to the cartoon in question) which is just another curbing of free speech?
Are we really turning into a country where we acquiesce to people’s demands when they feel insulted? If so, when will it stop?
It’s like that South Park episode about Sexual Harassment Panda, where even the slightest wrong word could lead to a lawsuit.
Sycophants!
Martyn Turner has long been a bigot. Yet, his prurience and bigotry has been disguised as (quite over-rated and largely unwitty) “satire” by The Irish Times.
The big excuse is the Irish times continue to give vile comments about the Catholic Church yet never comment about other faiths, the Anglican Church , or Muslim church have as much wrongness but I’ve never seen any comment mentioned bout them or their wronging why because no one seems to be able to say a thing , other than what’s being said about abuse that’s happened what else can someone say, many don’t go to church as they are lazy the abuse is just a stupid added part. Can anyone name an abusive priest In the church today at this minute a known fact he’s doing it right now. I doubt it and how’s the church covering it how can you state it.
“People don’t go to church because they are lazy”.
I had no idea it was lazieness preventing me believing in the all powerful sky fairy!
Have you ever heard the phrase ” Two wrongs don’t make a right “
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You might want to use full stops at some point. However I think you’re trying to say “Show me an abusive priest that the catholic church are covering up”.
The problem with that is that if the catholic church are covering up an abusive priest, wouldn’t that mean we wouldn’t know about it?
Indeed, asking for the name of a current child rapist in the clergy is idiotic when its RCC policy to protect them.
@Aidan
“The big excuse is the Irish times continue to give vile comments about the Catholic Church yet never comment about other faiths, the Anglican Church , or Muslim church have as much wrongness but I’ve never seen any comment mentioned bout them or their wronging why because no one seems to be able to say a thing ,”
Catholicism is the primary religion in this country. It used to be the most powerful organisation in this country. Happily, this is no longer the case. And extra happily, it is no more immune from criticism than the people they criticise freely on a regular basis. There is no conspiracy to bring down the catholic church. It’s something that is systematically happening on its own. Slowly but surely.
“…many don’t go to church as they are lazy the abuse is just a stupid added part…”
Don’t claim to speak for anyone but yourself Aidan. Plenty of people don’t go to church because they are not Catholics. And plenty don’t go because of moral objections to what the church has done over the years.
You seem perfectly happy to see the horrendous abuse of children overlooked in favour of protecting an institution that perpetrated it.
Probably because the Iona ‘Institute’ threatened to sue them :o
Im lost as to how their hurt. … I thought they were standing over their so called right not to break confessional seal. In which case the cartoon has the correct context. Whats their gripe if their so proud of their stance? ??? ?they’re employer has decided to ignore or use th civil law how they like. Are we not allowed to express a reaction to that stance? ?? Its not th cartoon thats offensive but the ridiculous reality that it reflects
I have never met a decent, honorable priest. Any I have met are riddled with agendas of one kind or another. In fairness Martin, himself, is one of the few I have some respect for.
Confession? ? Really?
Ah don’t worry, sure they will get patsy mcgarry to publish it anonymously…..
Why should The Irish Times insult Catholics?
It’s a shame!
Why nit insult Muslims?
If you dud you would be forced to publish an apology!
All Catholics should stop buying The Irish Times!
If they did the Editor should apology very fast!
Shame on you Editor!
A “belt of the crozier” still works! I posted this and a little more earlier but it was removed!!
Just like Breda O’Brien in today’s Irish Times, way too many have misunderstood the cartoon that was censored.
The cartoon in question was not reinforcing the notion of priests as child snatchers……it was poking fun at the idea that a priest who had knowledge of a child in trouble (via the confessional) would never break the seal of the confessional.
It’s a cartoon. Get over it!
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