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Ex-Estonian Defence Forces chief: 'Neutrality is a luxury only rich countries can afford'

Major General Meelis Kiili, spoke to The Journal about Neutrality, NATO and his country’s plan to fight Russia.

THE FORMER CHIEF of Staff of the Estonian army has said that neutrality is a “luxury only rich countries can afford” and said his home country is ready to fight the Russian military in the event of an invasion.

Estonia is among four small countries with a border with Russia on the Eastern fringes of Europe – Finland lies to the north with Latvia and Lithuania to the south. 

The Baltic sea state has a history of invasions and oppression from the Russians – it suffered horrifically under Soviet occupation for much of the 20th century.

Major General Meelis Kiili is the National Military Representative of the Estonian Defence Forces to NATO’s European command. He was chief of staff of the Estonian Army from 2005 to 2006 and Deputy Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces in 2006 to 2007. 

Kiili was in Dublin in recent days to speak at the ‘Future of Irish Defence’ summit organised by non-profit security group Slándáil.

The officer has a long history in military life having served first in national service when his country was in the clutches of the Soviet Union. 

But following the restoration of Estonia’s independence in the 1990s he joined his country’s Defence Forces and rose up through the ranks. 

In an interview with The Journal Kiili said that geography no longer protects countries from aggression and spoke about neutrality and the importance of a well-developed indigenous defence strategy. 

He also had a stark warning for Russian soldiers massing on his country’s border – “Go home and live”. 

“I think it is the wrong perception that only Estonia and the neighbourhood of the bordering countries of Russia are at risk, everybody’s at risk,” he said.

Kiili, who has been educated at the US Army War College, the NATO and Baltic Defence Colleges, said that modern warfare, with its combination of lethal weaponry and hybrid cyber tactics, is a threat for every corner of the world. 

He said his State has been preparing for a Russian invasion since it became independent in the 1990s.

“The Ukrainian invasion in February, nothing really changed for Estonia. In terms of Russia, we knew that it was going to happen. And we have prepared for that since we restored our independence.

So we didn’t look there were some times we were sometimes taken as being paranoid about our eastern neighbour. We were just realistic. I think the entire free world is at risk today. The battlefield it is in Ukraine but the conflict is between western society – the transatlantic world versus Russia. 

Pragmatic

In speaking to Finnish and Swedish experts The Journal has discovered a similar theme – one of pragmatic necessity in defence. Estonia is no different and Kiili takes that a step further.   

“We’ve been pragmatic. Our task is also to educate our allies, like minded nations, to understand that there is no point calling to Mr Putin. He’s using different taxonomy.

“The basic principle is we need to have a very clear understanding of their way of thinking. It is very different. It is alien to the Western world,” he said. 

Kiili said that he was “surprised” at how often Western states have fallen for Russia’s deceptions in negotiations – he was particularly critical of western Governments who are dependent on Russian energy.

“Europe became dependent on the Russian gas but on the other hand, Russia is very dependent on the income from the European Union.

“We just pay the price now and that’s the money but Ukrainians are paying in blood and with their lives,” he added. 

tactical-air-control-party-personnel-with-the-oklahoma-air-national-guard-146th-air-support-operations-squadron-consisting-of-an-air-liaison-officer-and-joint-terminal-attack-controller-support-exerci Estonia joined NATO in 2004. Alamy Stock Photo Alamy Stock Photo

Kiili said that Estonia has been using the model of a whole society approach to defence where there is a buy-in from all citizens. He said the defence model he and other military leaders have advocated for is “a citizens resistance and resilience against aggression”.

Besides that strategy he also believes that membership of NATO, which the country joined in 2004, and the wider western alliance of the EU will help his State “avoid a battle” with their eastern nation.

Repeatedly, throughout the interview, Kiili mentioned the Soviet behaviour during World War Two and listed atrocities perpetrated by the USSR throughout the following decade.  

During WWII Estonia suffered invasions from Germany and Russia.

In 1940 Estonia was annexed by Russia. It resulted in a massive blood letting with senior officials and people across the broader society executed by Russia. 

A German invasion followed but this was again pushed back by the Soviets in 1944 but rather than being a liberating force it began a decades-long occupation. It is estimated that Estonia lost 25% of its population in WWII.

From 1944 on there was a massive Estonian resistance movement against the Soviets.

By 1949 Russia had begun a forceful process of changing the demographics of the population from 98% Estonian to just over 60% with forced deportations of citizens and a Russification strategy that saw thousands of Russians moved into the tiny Baltic country.

Caution

He offered a word of caution to the Russians who may be favourable to an invasion of the Baltic States and a revisiting of those turbulent times.

Kiili – speaking just above a whisper as he discussed his country’s defence strategy – leaned forward in his chair, fixed his gaze, and said:

One thing is clear. This time, we are going to fight. Every Estonian citizen must be protected, defended, every inch of our land. We are not going to yield it.

Kiili said that the Estonian State has defence enshrined in its constitution as a fundamental right and it is an obligation of each citizen to assist in defence.

“If we don’t resist what’s going to happen? You have seen what’s going to happen in Bucha, in the suburbs of Mariupol. It is a massacre, they say it is genocide. So absolutely we must fight,” he added.

The Major General said the claims from Moscow of Russia liberating Ukraine from Nazis is “mad” and it “insults the intelligence” of everyone including Russians.  

He said there is a broad consensus in Estonia around defence funding and little to no debate on the expenditure – the State spends 2.7% of GDP on Defence – for comparison Ireland spends 0.2%.

estonian-defense-league-commander-visits-meelis-kiili Major General Meelis Kiili. Alamy Stock Photo Alamy Stock Photo

Kiili said he did not wish to advise Ireland as to its defence funding model but said that neutrality is a concept that must be adequately funded. 

“Neutrality is a luxury only rich countries like Switzerland can afford,” he said. 

“They need to learn you need to pay for that. You need to increase your defense budget to fund it.

And it’s based not on deduction, but it is based on our own experience. In 1940, we were neutral. The army wasn’t worthy, the armed forces were not up to the task. If the adversary wants to invade a neutral country who has no defences, it’s done, simply, it’s done.

Kiili concludes his interview with an observation on the current threat landscape from an Irish perspective. 

“I think that the Irish are very good people – they are joyful, open. But there’s a world beyond Irish borders as well and sometimes that world is not so nice as here in Dublin.

“We need to be wary of the threats and challenges. They (may) not possibly be in our nearest proximity, but in a proximity – they are real.

“We need to stand for our values and lifestyle together,” he said. 

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34 Comments
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    Mute Des Hanrahan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:21 AM

    Yet another part of the campaign to bounce us into NATO .

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:24 AM

    @Des Hanrahan: NATO is a red herring. The Government know the people aren’t interested in it, but there is a very different attitude to being involved in an EU defence structure. Even if we don’t do that, the least that’s expected of us is to be able to mind our own neck of the woods and at the moment we cannot.

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    Mute Des Hanrahan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:33 AM

    @Eoin Roche: The EU defence arrangement is basically NATO light. Don’t forget the USA has a seat on the EU Commission. However as a sovereign state we should sort out our defence. The reason the defence forces are so pathetic is that their purpose is not to protect the country but to ensure that our elite sleep sound at night.

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:38 AM

    @Des Hanrahan: What seat does the USA have on the EU Commission??

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    Mute David Bourke
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:47 AM

    @Des Hanrahan:

    You didn’t even read the article. His statement is simple, if you want to be neutral, you better have a big army. Switzerland has a very well funded military, and has national service.

    Ireland’s army is too tiny and underfunded to claim neutrality.

    In any case, burying our heads in the sand and refusing to talk about the war in Europe is irresponsible. If you believe Ireland should not fund its military, then give your reasons.

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    Mute motojack
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:48 AM

    @Des Hanrahan: so when you say “protect the country” what do you mean? There can be many threats real or imagined that we may need to protect or not protect against.

    I supose historically we would have needed an effective counter to terrorist elements, possibly small scale insurgency.

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    Mute Des Hanrahan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:52 AM

    @Eoin Roche: Their own seat . They sit in on every single meeting . It is not a secret but neither is it advertised . Keeping an eye on their vassals I guess. Have to admit I was shocked when I first heard about it .

    \

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    Mute Des Hanrahan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 1:01 AM

    @motojack: I mean present a deterrence to an invasion . Our position is probably unique in that the only country that has ever been a threat or would possibly be in the future is the UK and they have nukes .

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Jun 7th 2022, 1:03 AM

    @Des Hanrahan: Ah, so you just made it up? That explains it.

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    Mute Des Hanrahan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 1:06 AM

    @David Bourke: I certainly did read the article and re-iterate what I said about it’s purpose . Where did I say that we should not fund the defence forces properly ? I believe we should spend more on defence .

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    Mute David Bourke
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    Jun 7th 2022, 1:34 AM

    @Des Hanrahan:

    You didn’t read the article before you commented, that much is obvious. The article isn’t pro-NATO, it’s pro-funding-your-military. It’s pro-European-defense.

    It’s also an article about Estonia, not just Ireland. I do believe it is good to learn about other countries, would you not agree?

    It seems that the pro-neutrality brigade want us to ignore what is happening in Europe today. Hence the hostile reaction to informative articles.

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    Mute Andre le Flohic
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    Jun 7th 2022, 8:39 AM

    @Des Hanrahan: I do not like NATO and always thought that france should never have gone back with the americans and british but but .. nowadays i think exactly like this chief of defense who being estonian knows exactly what russian colonisation means for the colonised .. did you ever visit those nordic countries ? you should ! you should as well have a look at what happens in Ukraine which is not really nice !

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    Mute Gearóid MacEachaidh
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    Jun 7th 2022, 9:18 AM

    @Des Hanrahan: the USA does not have a seat in the EU commission!

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    Mute Brian Burns
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    Jun 7th 2022, 9:24 AM

    @Eoin Roche: always the voice of government opinions on the journal no matter what time of day

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:55 PM

    @Brian Burns: I’m not sure how calling out patent nonsense made up by spoofers and conspiracy theorists makes me a voice of “Government opinions”, but you have a nice day shaping tinfoil hats anyway Brian.

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    Mute socmot Слава Україні!
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    Jun 7th 2022, 4:29 PM

    @Des Hanrahan: The US has no seat on the European Commission – only the Member States of the EU do.

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    Mute Ned
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:31 AM

    neutrality is just a word, in today’s world nobody is really neutral .

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    Mute Richard O Connor
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    Jun 7th 2022, 9:35 AM

    @Ned: we are not neutral, we are militarily non aligned. We can’t afford neutrality. If another country decides to take the Aran islands. With an airfield and deep water ports with access to the Atlantic nothing we could do to stop it. We have no naval defence, no air defence, no strike aircraft with anti ship capability. The reality is whoever wants it can take it from us. Oh and no nato or anyway else will help us get it back. We are living a deluded world where we have sheltered under natos umbrella by luck not design. Nato is the cheapest option to guarantee our territorial integrity, I’m not pro nato. But can’t see is buying a full airforce, building new ships, buying credible air defence. Say 10 fighter jets. 2billion including maintenance and training alone. Won’t happen

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    Mute Gearóid MacEachaidh
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    Jun 7th 2022, 5:24 PM

    @Richard O Connor: have you not heard about our fishermen?

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:21 AM

    I agree with him that neutrality is a worthless concept if it cannot be asserted independently. For example, we have a bi-lateral deal with the UK Royal Air Force to defend our airspace, which is total hypocrisy and a complete dereliction of the responsibility of a independent Republic. But that said, geography has a lot to do with it too. For all these years we’ve been fortunate to live under de facto NATO protection by sheer accident of being at it’s geographic centre. But, the World is changing, data and communications are the new oil and gold and we don’t have a choice but to adequately protect our resources, our environment and our economy from those who would damage them, as they would any Western interests.

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    Mute Mick Tobin
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    Jun 7th 2022, 12:49 AM

    There are a lot of simmering implications. Not so long ago, the Russians didn’t pick Ireland’s south-west coast for nothing for doing a few of their exercises – it took our fishermen to more or less chase them off. But then there’s also the post-Brexit reality of Ireland’s relationship to the UK. The Tories would’ve most wanted to have us exit the EU along with them, but only for their have-cake-and-eat strategy to’ve worked, plus for us to be redrawn into their sphere of influence. So what’s a small country like Ireland supposed to do? There’s too many moving parts in the current (and likely future) geopolitical reality, and we’re not going to follow the UK out of the EU, but what does that mean for our strategic independence? Logically it probably means deeper alignment with the EU, but that probably means military involvement with the bloc as well, so it seems as though in the end this idea of neutrality – sometimes cast as ‘non-military allignment’ – is an ultimately redundant concept. And then by proxy we’d likely be subsequently be drawn into Nato anyway.

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    Mute Roy Dowling
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    Jun 7th 2022, 1:01 AM

    @Mick Tobin: will you give it a rest out fisherman didn’t drive them off. They chose where they did for one reason only. British and French ships moved into the black sea to do naval wargames with Ukraine. Russia picked where it did as it could target both London and Paris. Nothing at all to do with Ireland.

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    Mute Eoin Roche
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    Jun 7th 2022, 1:05 AM

    @Mick Tobin: The Fishermen’s groups were manipulated and used by the Russian embassy in Dublin for propaganda purposes, nothing more, nothing less. Seems quite quaint now.

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    Mute Bricesypherthron Smith
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    Jun 7th 2022, 4:45 AM

    Pushing the EU ay hard,.eh Journal?

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    Mute Gearóid MacEachaidh
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    Jun 7th 2022, 7:24 PM

    @Bricesypherthron Smith: why would the journal need to “push the EU”. We’re already in it.

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    Mute Brian Burns
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    Jun 7th 2022, 8:43 AM

    Another midnight propaganda piece from the journal..interview gave a few weeks ago- released 5 past midnight to the public after the bank holiday..the journal printing a pure propaganda piece interviewing a guy working for the EU from an event funded by the eu..

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    Mute David Van-Standen
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    Jun 7th 2022, 9:28 AM

    So the former Estonian Defence Forces Chief that spent the last 30 years connected to the US military and Nato, advocates for Ireland giving up its neutrality, the only thing that would make this more suspicious is if he was now working for a private military contractor or supplier as an advisor or consultant.

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    Mute Fergus Quinlan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 8:47 AM

    What a dreadful call to war, arms, nationalism without dissent, this has all the most dangerous attributes of someone who has made his living from someone courting the establishment… . Such people get a will ear and amplification from our own establishment and even…the journal.

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    Mute Ian E. Moon
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    Jun 7th 2022, 10:52 AM

    Another propaganda piece for the Republic of Ireland to join Nato and for the EU the have an army, fun how all the media is trying to push for war on a world scale.

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    Mute Pablo
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    Jun 7th 2022, 11:26 AM

    @Ian E. Moon: When I see chaotic weather events around the world it generally prompts me to make sure I’m adequately covered by insurance.

    If there was geopolitical stability in the world, I’d be very surprised to see articles about NATO or an EU army. It’s hardly surprising that this is a topic now in the current climate.

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    Mute Sarah Broderick
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    Jun 7th 2022, 8:39 AM

    That is such a ridiculous comment. Ireland was utterly broke when it chose neutrality: and just to clarify it did not choose total neutrality because it could not afford to do that either. We are still not wealthy enough to afford to join in any large way to conflict fortunately. War is expensive, only rich countries can afford to join in unfortunately.

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    Mute Paul Owens
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    Jun 7th 2022, 11:52 AM

    He’s 100 per cent correct,if u disagree it’s simple,Ur for the birds!

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    Mute Michael Nolan
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    Jun 7th 2022, 7:49 PM

    Surely that’s the exact essence of neutrality…. peace and prosperity..bout the only thing he is right about

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    Mute Richard Mccarthy
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    Jun 8th 2022, 7:21 AM

    One things for sure our neutrality certainly didn’t prevent our health service from Russian cyber hackers demanding extortion money in return for unlocking our stolen technology Ireland needs to get real and realise not everyone always loves us and has our best interests at heart,in truth if you fail to prepare you are preparing to fail.

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