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A PRIVATE LAW firm is representing the State in an independent review to determine whether a congregation of nuns can take back money set aside to deal with sex abuse claims.
The Department of Health confirmed to The Journal that Comyn Kelleher Tobin is representing it and the HSE as they engage with an unnamed independent expert.
The Medical Missionaries of Mary are trying to withdraw money from a fund intended to indemnify the State against legal cases taken by victims of disgraced doctor Michael Shine.
The Congregation ran the Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda where Shine worked as a surgeon for decades and where many of the alleged incidents of abuse took place.
A schedule of records obtained on foot of a Freedom of Information request shows that 63 emails were sent or received by the Department of Health over the past year in relation to the Indemnity Agreement.
The Department refused to release the contents of the correspondence, insisting that it “would disclose confidential communications between the Department and our legal advisor and other parties and their legal advisor”.
Victims say that they appreciate that the review is ongoing, but the Department should still be able to give them some basic details about how the process is being conducted.
Ian Armstrong told The Journal that he and other victims are appealing for “more transparency”.
“We have had no communication from the Department of Health, no communication whatsoever,” he said.
CEO of the support and advocacy organisation Dignity4Patients Adrienne Reilly said that the lack of communication with victims demonstrates that the State has failed to deliver its promise of a victim-centred approach to dealing with the Shine case.
Last August, after a number of victims spoke publicly for the first time, Tanaiste (then-Taoiseach) Simon Harris said: “We need to actually help these people get the answers, and we need to do it in a victim, survivor-centred way.
“So what I want them to know is that I hear them, that I do want government to engage with them, but I also want that engagement to be useful from their point of view.”
The Department of Health also confirmed to The Journal this week that the independent expert will be paid “in accordance with the provisions of the deed”.
The 1997 Agreement stipulated that fees and expenses paid to the independent expert “shall be shared equally between the Congregation and the Minister”.
Ian Armstrong said that he felt it was “very odd” that the nuns were paying half of the cost of a report that could decide if they can withdraw the funds themselves.
Hundreds of men claim that they were abused by Shine over decades while he worked at the hospital and operated a private practice in the Louth town.
The hospital, established in 1939, was owned and run by the nuns until 1997 when it was sold to the North Eastern Health Board for IR£5.5 million.
The day before the purchase was announced by the then-Health Minister Michael Noonan, the Medical Missionaries of Mary signed a Deed of Indemnity and Charge.
The purpose of the agreement was to indemnify the State against claims “arising out of or in connection with” potential liability in respect of possible claims of alleged abuse.
The Agreement refers to allegations of abuse at the time that it was signed in 1997: “Various incidents of sexual abuse (‘the alleged abuse’) may have occurred in the hospital during the period of ownership thereof by the Congregation.”
A fund was created and a lodgement of IR£1.6 million was made by the Congregation, into an “interest bearing deposit account with The Investment Bank of Ireland” more than 28 years ago. It’s understood the fund is now worth multiples of that original amount and that it has never been accessed by the State to make payments to victims.
While there have been cases taken, payments were made through insurers.
The congregation’s solicitors, Arthur Cox, were “irrevocably appointed by the Order to administer the fund”.
However, two years ago, the Medical Missionaries of Mary sought permission to withdraw the funds, leading to the appointment of an independent expert to decide whether this could be permitted. No decision has been made public.
Comment has been sought from the congregation.
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Why would the Nuns try to withdraw money from the victims funds. Can someone explain this. The Journal skips over the facts…I’m really interested how the Nuns could be taking money from victims or am I getting this wrong.
@Joby Redmond: There were already plausible allegations of abuse against Michael Shine. The state were aware that there were probably many more. Money was set aside to deal with potential future cases. This ‘victims fund’ was sitting in a bank.
This money had not been given to victims. The nuns were able to take some of it from the bank. This might leave the state liable for further cases, (resulting from that period, when Dr Shine was at the hospital).
@A D: I would never give Shine a title he is a beast.
@Joby Redmond: because nuns are evil
@Dermot Blaine: Shine was not a nun.
The permanent government will never change, no matter what politicians say.
@PhiBo: we need to pay the victims and pay them now!!
@Lance Taylor: some nuns have bad HABIT’s.
@Chutes Idiot:Nuns on the run with Coltrane and Idle
@Lance Taylor: if it was the politicians they would be paid immediately no ifs or buts
@Chutes Idiot: yes they always in the laundry trying to clean them….and their money! What the hell do they want money for
@Bren: or if they were priests protecting him they’d burn the place to the ground
Ffg pawend off the women ,children ,sick and most vulnerable ,section
@Robert Halvey: Truth Social would say “Volunteer women ask for the return of their OWN money.”
And there are still people out there who will defend these vermin.
@Louis Jacob: the nuns seem happy enough to follow Terry Prones PR advice to them…sit tight until it all blows over. How that woman is given a minutes time in the media now is beyond me. Complicit.
@Alan: Terry Prone advising the nuns?? Is that true???
@Louis Jacob: Shine was a man who abused boys not a nun.
@thomas molloy: yes but he worked for the perverts in habbits
@Robert Halvey: You just don’t like the amazing facilities set up by the nuns when the atheists and Protestants were playing golf and sipping alcohol.
@thomas molloy: lad I spent all the way up to my leaving in christen brother schools , have had enormous help in developing by friends that are priests christen brothers and would you believe a ex cloister nun and a studend of cannonon law , They where the ones that thaught me that thre Catholic church was a vile organisation ruled by sadistic pedophiles
No surprise there Them Nuns like their money and don’t care about the victims, am I right in saying that???
@Ned: say what you feel Sir.
@Ned: The Nuns do not have an obsession with money . They are right not to allow their money to be stolen . They provide and staff a major medical facility (why they bother I don’t know ) for the benefit of society. If an employee like Shine involves himself in illegal activity you can’t blame the Nuns and steal their money.
However, there is no shortage of uneducated bigots like Ned to make statements !
@Ned: 2025, and the nuns are still relevant.mind boggling stuff indeed.
@Misneach: its common knowledge that the nuns refused to entertain any complaints re Mr Shine, they sheltered and facilitated this excuse for a human being,so yes they bare huge responsibility.
@Misneach: Beg to differ. The whole Catholic religion is a money-making exercise R ackett.
@Ned: They want it back because the are entitled to it. The word ‘nun’ proves nothing.
@Paul Gorry: Catholic Church owns prime land in every town and diocese in the country. Should all be confiscated and sold for housing. Money to the victims fund
@Misneach: in what fantasy world do you live !!
@Tony Murphy: no thanks. state owns more land around the country, that they are just hoarding and not using. at least the church is using their land for a purpose.
@Misneach: They have provided and staffed many “facilities” for the benefit of society where they tortured and abused children since they became members of the evil cult. There is a bigger picture here and if you took off your blindfold and educated yourself you would know they knew all about the animal “employee” shine and his illegal activity but there’s no shortage loyal followers of the flock like you that refuse to see the truth!
@Misneach: Any employer can be held responsible for abuse that takes place in their place of work by an employee. This is why the money is held on trust for victims. This is why the order is being blamed.
@Misneach: nuns are nuns and there is a reason that they are almost extinct and if you were old enough you would know why.
@Paul Gorry: relevant because they are so cheap.
@Antony Stack: so you say but??
If any other organisation did what the Catholic church did, it would have been burned to the ground. How it is still going is beyond me.
@Ian: Same can be said for the order 2.
@Ian: The sex abuser was not a nun.
Where is the Christianity in this from the nuns…
@Jack Schitte: Setting up the hospital in the first place. Abuser was employee.
@thomas molloy: THE INTERNATIONAL Missionary Training Hospital at Drogheda was inaugurated in 1957, the fulfillment of a long-cherished hope of Mother Mary Martin, who had striven to provide at Drogheda, full spiritual and professional training for the Sisters of the Medical Missionary of Mary.
The new hospital had 115 beds when it opened in 1957, with another wing still under contruction, that would provide another 100 beds. The Drogheda facility was one of the best-designed and best equipped in the country at the time.
On the day of the inauguration, 22 nurses from India, Uganda, Tanganika, Germany, America, Wales, Scotland and Ireland were capped by His Eminence Cardinal D’Alton.
Another pit of piety and shamelessness contradiction by nuns who have no apathy and pray in silence while victims weep.
@Phillip Smyth: (empathy, not apathy.)
@A D: have you nothing else to say only check my spelling???
No issue leaving the comments section open on this one? Once it’s an Irish religious order getting a hammering. But anything to do with trumpalstilskin, the zionists or the gen○(ide in Gaza it’s comments closed..
@Greagoir O Duinn: This is Ireland nobody cares about Gaza against mental leftists extremism.
@Rian O’Sullivan: I think you’ll find a great portion of the Irish people sympathise with the Gaza people and the genocide they are experiencing at the hands of the imperialist oppressor.
@Greagoir O Duinn: very true sir.
A the Catholic Church the last bastion of morality. Nothing but filth.
You Seriously have to be joking!!! Shame on All including those who Allow It!!!
The only reason the nuns can try to get the money back is because the government have just left it sitting idle in a bank. The simple solution is to spend it.
Personally, I’d set fire to the lot before returning a cent to the church.
@Karl O’Toole: I don’t think the government have it, I think it’s in an account held by the nuns.
How many nuns are involved ? They’ve disappeared from the hospital years ago.
Are the nuns still using 82 year old plastic face Terry Prone for PR?
Pure evil.
That parade, can start at any time, One’s at discretion of State, and whatever process that needs to be done, for conclusion!
One is awaiting when ever that parade can start, any time, is there anything that an organiser has to do, or is there a specific time!
You can’t “raid” your own money.
The one trait, that One does have is self-awareness, and to scrutinise the situation as it unfolds, or (is) happening, to say the contrary is such an insult to one’s achievements and convictions to date. To just deny, is as they say a bald assertion that doesn’t carry much weight in a legal manner.
One thought, there was a Gentleman’s agreement, in place that all parties would honour, but again One, was greatly mistaken by Underwood, sorry undertones of what has actually taken place. As in the Shine abuse shame on State, moreover it’s actors. Looks like, someone, has work to do to get this situation back on track!
So no parade, One is just perplexed at this stage, to be honest, clearly now State, and it’s actors, are against the parade going ahead, could they please make up their mind, once and for all!
So now, a meetup is required, Why?
One offered a meetup, weeks ago to sort out the parade, Breakfast was suggested, specific communication was provided for such Breakfast, if Gentleman’s agreement for parade, needs to be made more formal, okay as in written bond, that’s fine , but one was of belief that was not at the table, for parade to be finalised! Time to make mind up and conclude what the other’s want. Otherwise, it’s time to conclude the parade.
The request for buffer, that amount for the parade, to get it started!
Everything is in place, email functionality or address that is specific for that parade , with buffer amount that was stated last week, to commence, one’s humble opinion!
One is live, okay and what next? One is at screen!
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