GE2024 ge2024
MICHEÁL MARTIN HAS said that it is “not a surprise” that the US has raised concerns with Ireland’s Occupied Territories Bill but said that the intervention will not stop Ireland from passing the legislation.
The Tánaiste said people on the doors have been thanking him for Ireland’s “principled position” on Gaza, and reiterated that he wants the next government to pass the legislation.
In a wide-ranging interview the day before the Dáil was dissolved, the Fianna Fáil leader said if there is a rotating Taoiseach mechanism put in place after the next election and Fianna Fáil is in government, he wants the first go at the top job.
He also outlined some of his party’s housing policies for the upcoming election, as well as clarifying that he didn’t intentionally mean to steal the Taoiseach’s thunder by announcing the the election would be called on Friday.
Asked about recent reports of the US ambassador Claire Cronin raising concerns with the government about the bill, Martin said embassies do communicate “all of the time if they believe there’s an issue of concern to them.”
“Their concern is the boycott divestment movement in the United States, which essentially says to any American company, if you participate in any such activity, you will be penalised in the United States.
“And so their concern is that American companies located in Ireland could be inadvertently caught up in this legislation, and could and could be damaged as a result of that,” he said, stating that it was “not a new concern”.
“That’s been there a long time. It’s not a surprise… they communicated that five or six years ago, and that’s been a standard position. Our position is that it relates to the occupied territory, not to Israel,” said Martin.
From a humanitarian position, what is happening in Palestine is “unconscionable”, said the Fianna Fáil leader, who said it is “beyond any moral compass, it needs to stop”.
“This bill won’t stop it, because Israel’s behaviour is not going to be stopped by this. It needs its allies to tell it to stop, including America, including Germany,” said Martin.
He defended the bill not going through before the Dáil was dissolved, stating:
“If we just pass the bill as it is now, it will fall on the first hurdle, and there will be challenges to the bill.
I expect the bill to be challenged.
“We have to make it as robust and as strong as we possibly so it can withstand challenge, because France did a similar bill, not entirely similar, but similar enough in the context of the Western Sahara, and lost the case three weeks ago,” he said.
While housing, health and transport are issues coming up on the doors, so too is the Occupied Territories Bill, said Martin.
“A lot of people will talk to you about this on the doors. A lot of people say to me, ‘thank you for taking a stance’. They think Ireland, the people on the doors, the majority of people, say Ireland is taking a principal position on this,” he said.
Martin said he wants the enactment of the bill to be in the programme for government, if he is part of it.
The bill has been in the ether since 2016, when it was pushed forward by Senator Frances Black. At the time, Fianna Fáil TDs, who were in a confidence and supply arrangement with Fine Gael, were in favour of the legislation.
However, when government formation talks got underway for in 2020, Fine Gael vetoed its inclusion in the programme for government. Since then, the bill has been languishing, but was revived this year when Martin said the ICJ ruling changed the dynamic, and allowed for the legislation to be revisited.
Critics have questioned the timing of the bill’s revival, with some asking why it could not have been progressed earlier, instead of weeks before a general election.
“First of all, I’m committed now to progressing the legislation, which will require amendment,” he said, adding he has asked his team to draft the amendment and have then ready for the new government.
As the legislation stands, it is unconstitutional, he said, stating that there are 12 to 14 areas that need to be amended.
“We have to be honest with people,” he said, stating that the Attorney General’s advice in respect EU competency over trade hasn’t changed.
What would the new US administration under Donald Trump make of such legislation?
“Trump is a strong supporter of Israel and has not been in support of Palestinian self-determination. So we’re under no illusions there,” he said.
In Martin’s view, what action will Trump take when it comes to Gaza?
“How he might act is something that’s still open to analysis. In other words, he’s quite transactional. He wants to end wars. He has said that. That could be of benefit in the sense that he may say to Israel, ‘enough is enough’, and that that may happen, we don’t know. So the jury’s out in terms of what next steps are, but the killing must stop,” he said.
If the situation in Palestine is even more dire in March and if the US administration has undermined a two-state solution, is Martin still willing to visit Trump in the White House on St Patrick’s Day?
“Yes, of course,” he said.
“Our economic relationship is huge and very, very significant. We cannot ignore that. I mean, there are 200,000 jobs depending on American multinationals, as we speak, in this country.
“So of course, I would avail of the St Patrick’s day period to meet with the President, should that be facilitated by the new government, and we hope it will be,” Martin said, stating that he would happily talk on all issues, including the Middle East.
“One would like to think the war will be over by next March, and that we’ll be talking about reconstruction of Gaza and peace,” he added.
“But I’ve never had a difficulty in talking to American leaders about issues like this,” he said, stating that he spoke to the Clintons on the matter years back.
However, he said people in Ireland have to understand that there is a very different perspective on matters in the US.
“The US has interests and stakes that it’s not going to abandon anytime soon. And there’s this historic connection between many countries and Israel, and we would argue that at times that gives almost a free rein to Israel to do what it wishes in the Middle East, which I think is extremely regrettable.
“I believe that the powers and countries that have leverage with Israel should exercise it more in terms of bringing about a ceasefire and ending the carnage,” he said.
Looking to possible outcomes after polling day on 29 November and what the outcome could be from government formation talks, Martin said his “hunch” is that it will be a three-party coalition again.
Obviously, Martin would like to be at the helm of any future government, but when asked if he would like the first go as Taoiseach if the rotating role is repeated, he said:
“I want to lead the next government on day one. A lot of that depends on the support we receive, the number of seats we win, I take absolutely nothing for granted.”
He added:
We’ll be looking to get the highest number of seats.
Speaking about the rotating Taoiseach agreement, Martin did not seem adverse to the idea again, stating that it took a “bit of ego out of politics”.
“So therefore, it’s an option for a future government formation as well, and it’s something that wasn’t there in the past,” he added.
Martin also added that he is unsure if a new government will be formed by Christmas.
When asked what parties Fianna Fáil would rule out of going into government, Martin was quick off the mark to state that Sinn Féin’s policies were incompatible with their own. So, no surprises there.
While some speculate the next government could have a cohort of Independents in the mix, there is talk that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil might like to the Social Democrats or Labour to make up the numbers.
Social Democrats leader Holly Cairns has said that a standalone Minister for Disabilities is a red line issue for her party.
Martin said the disability portfolio has been moved from the Department of Health and to the Department of Children, stating that it should be given time now to “bed in”.
“Holly can have red lines, that’s our entitlement. My view is, we’ve now made the switch. It took two and a half years to switch disability out of health, given all the complexities,” he said.
The Tánaiste added that different parties will have different proposals when it comes to ministries, stating that there is limited number of ministries permitted in the Constitution.
“We will have some too around ministerial allocations of portfolios,” he said, indicating Fianna Fáil would like to make some changes.
Simon Harris’ idea of a new Department of Infrastructure is something Martin has previously called a “half-baked” idea, telling The Journal that in his view, it will only delay the roll-out of big projects.
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