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Michelle Mulherin was one of four Fine Gael TDs to be elected from the five-seater Mayo constituency last year.

Mulherin: 'We need a discussion around who, in this day and age, is having unprotected sex'

The Fine Gael TD at the centre of the ‘fornication’ remarks defends her comments, saying: “It’s not a word I invented.”

THE FINE GAEL TD behind this afternoon’s controversial remarks that fornication is a leading cause of unwanted pregnancy has defended her remarks, saying: “It’s not a word I invented.”

Mayo deputy Michelle Mulherin’s Dáil remarks – that fornication was “probably the single most likely cause of unwanted pregnancies in this country” – caught the attention of many during today’s debates on legislation which would have permitted abortion under certain circumstances.

“The word fornication basically refers to consensual sex between adults outside of marriage,” Mulherin told Today FM’s Last Word with Matt Cooper, before explaining that she had sought to introduce a religious aspect to the discussion to try and broaden the debate.

“We need to have debates to move things along, or to effect change, or to arrive at a point where we can be comfortable in a society in relation to things that we legislate upon which have a moral element to them,” she said.

We look to the issue of abortion and in most cases – now, I don’t have statistics because there aren’t statistics, and we know approximately that 4,500 women feel they need to go to the UK to have abortions – but assuming in a lot of cases, and just I suppose from anecdotal stories and so on, evidence… we know people are having casual sex and that therefore pregnancies arise that weren’t planned and that aren’t wanted.

…We need as individuals to have a discussion around who in this day and age is having unprotected sex, with AIDS, with sexually transmitted diseases – in fact, in those sorts of scenarios, pregnancy is a welcome outcome compared to all that can happen to an individual.

Mulherin said the wellbeing of women, and “taking responsibility in these areas”, was “an elephant in the room”.

“What I have to say, is in the context of a bigger debate that needs to be happening. That was only an element of what I said.”

She went on:

Take religion out of it, okay? Is there a point at which, from the point of view of practical living, the mental health and wellbeing of people, that the ought not practice safe sex? That perhaps in some instances people should be abstaining from casual sexual intercourse?

Forget about the word: this is about opening a debate about modern responsible living in Ireland, us being responsible people for ourselves.

The first-term Fine Gael TD said it appeared that the current opinion of Irish society on topics like abortion was the result of having had morality “shoved down our throats” for a considerable period.

“The flip [side] to getting rid of religiosity isn’t promiscuity, but an awful lot of people’s attitudes to sexuality are actually very primitive, and basic, and very in the shadows,” she said.

So if people are being driven in a certain direction, and you say, towards sexual intercourse, towards pleasure, towards whatever it is… is there something darker here? Is there something harmful that is happening to some people here, because they’re not practising safe sex, because they’re not abstaining? Perhaps, in some instances, people are having sex too young?

Why can’t we talk about that, and why does it have to sound nerdy, or particularly religious?

Mulherin added that she did not believe she was required to “jettison everything that I believe in” after being elected to the Dáil. “I’m not schizophrenic,” she said. “We are holistic beings, and that includes taking in that aspect of ourselves.”

Mulherin was the fourth Fine Gael TD to be elected from the five-seater Mayo constituency in last year’s general election.

The abortion legislation was defeated in the Dáil by 111 votes to 20.

Audio: Michelle Mulherin speaks to Matt Cooper on Today FM

Read: TD: ‘Fornication most likely cause of unwanted pregnancies’

More: Dáil rejects proposals to allow limited abortion in Ireland

Poll: 75 per cent of Irish GPs “in favour of limited abortion”

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159 Comments
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    Mute Paul Moloney
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:09 PM

    “So if people are being driven in a certain direction, and you say, towards sexual intercourse, towards pleasure, towards whatever it is… is there something darker here?”

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and blame Satan.

    P.

    250
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    Mute Phil Mc Donald
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:18 PM

    Mickey Flanagan was right…a lot less ‘fingering’ going on amongst the kids these days. It was a lot safer.

    130
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    Mute Stray Mutt
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:59 PM

    Just couldnt’t be bothered to concoct a lengthy a reply.
    And yes Michelle.
    You indeed did not invent the term “fornication”.
    This would be beyond your ability.

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    Mute Strongbow62
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:07 PM

    I think she’s
    Looking for something to tax.

    41
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    Mute John O'Neill
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    Apr 20th 2012, 3:44 PM

    Bring back fornication I say. A long lost art.

    8
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    Mute Bob Coggins
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:11 PM

    “…so that we can identify them and lock them up in a Laundry”….

    239
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    Mute Richard Fitzwell
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:31 PM

    They should put a tax on unprotected sex they are taxing everything else!

    105
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    Mute Noddy Mooney
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:42 PM

    They could take tax OFF condoms for a start. They could even make them freely available. I guess that would be too simple (and sinful) a solution to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

    230
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    Mute Lionel Hutz
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:40 PM

    If they take over “Coppers” that’s most of the hard work done…

    101
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    Mute Jonathan o Hici
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:52 PM

    They can’t make condoms free for all society, think about the money wasted on posh wanks!

    43
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    Mute phantom duck Nibbler
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:19 PM

    after listening to all that theres only one sensible thing to do ………. im off to have some casual sex

    169
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    Mute Mark Dennehy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:26 PM

    Anyone using the phrase “casual sex” descriptively really isn’t doing it right :D

    33
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    Mute John O'Neill
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    Apr 20th 2012, 12:20 AM

    There. was no such thing as casual sex in our day …. It was damn hard work before you even started…

    21
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    Mute Dukezeal
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:18 PM

    ”very primitive, and basic, and very in the shadows”. I thought that was the catholic church’s views on sex?

    155
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    Mute Susie Chester
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:18 PM

    Religion? Ah no not at all…. she just wanted to ” introduce a religious aspect to the discussion to try and broaden the debate ,” The woman is a sad case. Highly maddening , and quite funny .I will watch the Oireachtas report later too.

    81
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    Mute phantom duck Nibbler
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:28 PM

    @dukezeal i think thats a description of #finegael

    15
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    Mute Alan Hayes
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:17 PM

    “We need to take a look at who is having unprotected sex” Nanny state.

    153
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    Mute Mark Dennehy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:24 PM

    I suppose you could record the look at who’s having unprotected sex and then put it up on a pay-per-view site and try to carve out a chunk of the several-billion-a-year porn industry for the troika. That’d be a way to do the fornication tax :D

    66
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    Mute Adrian O'Donnell
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:46 PM

    Time to pull up a chair and have a look meself! :)

    31
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    Mute Jimmy Dunphy
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    Apr 20th 2012, 2:26 PM

    Alan,, Isn’t that called “Dogging” !!!!

    4
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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:23 PM

    We need to have a debate on the seperation of Church and state. Anyone who cant hold a debate on the Dail, without bringing their religous views into it, should be sacked immediately (and no pension). The Church does not control us anymore you facist and twisted freak.

    140
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    Mute All Aboutdavey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:18 PM

    I would imagine that gross ineptitude would be a better reason for sacking politicians rather than on the basis of the religious sentiments.

    23
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    Mute Ryan Allen
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:29 PM

    Surely the electorate collectively should decide what they want a TD to stand for, rather than Cal Mooney? Some voters want their TD’s to have espouse religious values. Other voters are willing to overlook corruption (Lowry/Flynn etc). Others want dealmakers who will deliver for their local area (Healy-Rae, McGrath). None of these things are necessarily right in your book, but that’s democracy.

    Doesn’t mean you have to agree with them, but banning people from Parliament because they are religious ironically sounds more fascist than anything she has said.

    25
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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:43 PM

    Ryan, The Church corrupted our state since its foundation. Ask the abused kids that have suffered as a result of their evil and corruption. For a TD to stand up and espouse Church teachings and to suggest that sex outside of marriage is a “SIN” is the most sickening and horribly hypocritical slap in the face to all of us non-conformist citizens in this country. Has she heard anything about love thy neighbour (no pun intended) or the fact that its harder for a rich person to go to heaven than it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. If she decided to give up her exorbitant salary to charity, and donned the sack cloth, i might take her seriously. But her and all the FFg/Labour Politicians are sitting in their ivory towers tut-tutting at the ordinary people in the country. They refuse to take the average industrial wage, instead stealing (and it is stealing or financial terrorism) to take the salaries they are taking, and then at the same time telling the people they are morally corrupt to have sex outside of marriage. I think she should be sacked immediately.

    37
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    Mute John Horan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:09 PM

    @Ryan, there is a difference between saying that TD’s shouldn’t bring their religious views into politics and saying that they should be banned because they are religious. If a TD was Muslim it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, but if s/he argued to ban pork products because it is forbidden in the Koran, I’d be pretty pissed.

    38
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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:59 PM

    Liberals for censorship are out in force I see.

    10
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:39 PM

    @ All Aboutdavey. If we were using gross ineptitude as a reason for sacking politicians would there be anyone left in Leinster House at this stage?

    4
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    Mute Jonathan Biggins
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    Apr 20th 2012, 5:59 PM

    @All Aboutdavey

    And the difference is…?

    1
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    Mute Kieran Gallagher
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:18 PM

    One thing fore sure she will not be elected again

    139
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    Mute fitszenpatrik
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:25 PM

    Not so sure she could be a surprise in the erection.

    150
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    Mute Liam Hanrahan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:28 PM

    She’s mayo she’ll be first in & that’s including Inda!

    17
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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:48 PM

    Strange how closed minded liberal people are. Sounds like she was suggesting that people need to take more responsibility for their actions. Surely that kind of intelligent talk can’t be allowed in the Dail. She just has to be silenced. Such heresy. Not even the priests of Rome would dare to say such things, never mind a young Colleen from Mayo.

    39
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    Mute Laura Farrell
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:57 PM

    Well said Frank, its a pity she mentioned religion and used the word “fornication” but otherwise everything said was reasonable and made sense. There is a big question out there as to why, when there is a much greater availability of contraception options, a significant proportion of the population are so unwilling to make use of what was hard fought for.

    43
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    Mute Dave
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:49 PM

    Folks, she may have a point about personal responsibility – but is that really something for a government to be interfering with? I’d prefer they concerned themselves with things that take place outside our bedrooms?

    20
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    Mute Jonathan Biggins
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    Apr 20th 2012, 5:55 PM

    Well, the backlash she’s (rightly) received will probably win her a sympathy vote.

    1
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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:22 PM

    In a secular Republic, should not a T.D.’s religious belief stay outside the Dail when debating such matters as this. That’s not to say she can’t hold certain religious beliefs as a private citizen…

    134
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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:56 PM

    Surely there’s more to sex than religion. Just because we are rightly becoming less Papal Rome, doesn’t mean that we turn to the darker days of the Romans. Unprotected sex leads to kids and in some cases to nasty STDs. Get over it.

    15
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    Mute John 'Trips' Gallen
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:09 PM

    The fact that she said that she introduced religion to the debate ‘to widen’ the debate goes to show that she has a very warped view of the world because by adding religion to it, surely she is narrowing the view… what an idiot!

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    Mute John 'Trips' Gallen
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:10 PM

    Don’t know why my comment above appeared here… ah well :)

    4
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    Mute Nialllateshow
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:22 PM

    Forgot to mention the same woman suggested conscription for men on the social welfare last year . Really we can see what we are dealing with here !!

    129
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    Mute Mark Kirwan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:49 PM

    And she had the highest expenses claims in the Dail in 2011, despite only being in office for 10 months.

    97
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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:56 PM

    @Mark – Just for the sake of propriety, I should mention that Mulherin didn’t have the highest expenses of any TD. She was among the highest claimants, at € 51,179.23, but that’s because expenses are calculated based on how far away you live from Leinster House, and also because TDs who vouch for their expenses (as Mulherin does) get a slightly higher allowance.

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    Mute mart_n
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:07 PM

    Gavan, sorry for taking things off topic, but is there any guide available on how to add links to text like you have done above, and also for adding emoticons, etc?

    13
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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:12 PM

    @mart_n – Sure – the way to insert links is to use basic HTML. Rather than try to explain it over a comment, I’ll send you to this tutorial which should guide you through it.

    13
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    Mute Mark Kirwan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:14 PM

    @Gavan – Yeah, after I posted I realised I had made a mistake, would’ve edited comment if possible. Thanks for the link, etc.

    7
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    Mute Ed Appleby
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    Apr 20th 2012, 6:13 PM

    Hey Gavan, just as well her expenses weren’t calculated based on how far away you live from reality or hers would be truly astronomic!

    1
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    Mute alan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:19 PM

    Absolutely laughable but absolutely frightening too that people can still speak like this in public and have it reported in the national media

    115
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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:03 PM

    Maybe the media just wanted to give people a laugh for once. You gotta laugh really,I mean,this is just embarrassing

    34
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    Mute Nialllateshow
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:19 PM

    Is her comment even worth any kind of logical debate , Is this really what the tax payers money pays for ? My 14 year old would come up with a more productive objection or argument than this woman who is assumed to be intelligent ?

    111
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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:44 PM

    Oh dear, I’m in agreement with Nialllateshow twice in one day. Is there a weird planetary alignment going on or what?

    13
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    Mute Strongbow62
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    Apr 20th 2012, 6:17 AM

    The fact that she used the word ” fornication” says a lot about her own attitude to sexuality.

    21
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    Mute mart_n
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:23 PM

    She is so tragically missing the point in the whole thing. She’s absolutely right about unprotected sex and the high numbers still practising it, but that should be a completely separate discussion than the one surrounding the rights of women to have abortions in limited circumstances.

    Compartmentalisation and dogmatism don’t really work well together.

    99
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    Mute Christ's Atheists
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:55 PM

    Would’ve thought “compartmentalisation and dogmatism” to be excellent bed-fellows. Pass the protection…

    10
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    Mute Gay Pea McManus
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:33 PM

    Whatever about fornication she’s right about one thing, people shouldn’t be having random unprotected sex outside a relationship. There are some really nasty STIs out there, and they’re on the rise, so unless you fancy playing drunken Russian roulette with something like drug-resistant syphilis, saddle up, seriously.

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    Mute Christ's Atheists
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:42 PM

    Now, if only you’d be there to give that advice to Franz Schubert, GP, he might have finished his 8th…

    4
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    Mute Seán Kearns
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:46 PM

    mart_n, you hit the nail on head!

    Of course we should promote safe sex, but abortion as outlined in this bill wasn’t designed as a contraceptive.

    It’s only for use when either the mother or child is at risk of death (which can occur in any incidence of pregnancy, not just cases of unprotected sex), as consequence of rape, incest etc., NOT as an alternative to wearing a condom!

    28
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    Mute Christ's Atheists
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:50 PM

    No method of contraception, even a condom, is 100% reliable…

    23
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    Mute Glyn Carragher
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:13 PM

    Just going to sit back and watch this all evening….

    91
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    Mute Darren Ryan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:03 PM

    Okay. So she wants to debate unprotected sex and all that malarky. Fine. Off with her. What in the name of Zod has that got to do with the Bill she voted against? It had nothing to do with people getting abortions willy nilly. It was for medical terminations in cases of pregnancy that could not be carried full term or threatened the life of the mother. You have the sorry state of affairs where mothers whose children are dead in the womb having to go to England for this procedure. In most instances, the cremated remains of the child will be sent by courier back to the mother several days later.Lovely way to treat Iriish women isnt it? And then of course you have the mothers who cant afford to travel and have to carry a dead child full term. The state is failing these women miserably and we have deluded women like this harping on in the Dail about something she obviously has no knowledge about, just following her religious bent. Now reread her little rant and think of your own sister/wife/lover in one of the aforementioned scenarios.

    89
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    Mute Andrew Brennan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:15 PM

    Well said Darren. The same TD proposed also that all unemployed young men should be forced to do Army service for a year …. later on in the year she voted to close Army barracks. You really couldn’t make this stuff up!

    46
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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:06 PM

    I had three babies who died in utero. I didn’t have to travel to England to be given medication to induce labour. I was treated with kindness and dignity here in Ireland and was helped in every way possible.

    20
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    Mute Lisa Carey
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    Apr 20th 2012, 2:43 PM

    Actually, Maria is right and we shouldn’t confuse matters by talking about late miscarriages/stillbirths, sad though they are – these cases don’t involve babies who have died in utero, these are babies that are *going* to die, either in utero or just after birth. That have no hope whatsoever of surviving outside the womb because they’re missing some of the vital bits that we need for living (brains, major organs,…). Basically, they’re the equivalent of some poor fecker who’s been in a car crash, suffered fatal head injuries, but is still “alive” on a ventilator until they switch the machine off. Except the life support in this case is another human being.

    I know some families choose to let the pregnancy go to term when they discover such conditions, but I know many others would prefer to be able to say goodbye and grieve straightaway.

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    Mute Aine Ni Chroinin
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:28 PM

    People with schizophrenia ARE whole people, capable of having full, productive and meaningful lives. Her understanding of mental health seems to be mired in the 50′s with her language.

    87
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    Mute phantom duck Nibbler
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:01 PM

    she hasnt got a clue , braindead , a dullard, and shes proud of it

    38
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    Mute Sheila Killian
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:17 PM

    Am guessing that’s a typo, and should read “safe sex” rather than “same sex” in the last block quote? Cause you know, it lends a whole other meaning to what she’d rather people did …..

    68
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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:19 PM

    Well spotted – fixed that now. Apologies for the rather unfortunate error!

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    Mute Ed Appleby
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    Apr 20th 2012, 6:10 PM

    Oh no don’t get the taliban started on that!

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    Mute Frank Comments
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:40 PM

    This drives me insane. I really do wonder whether we are just a weak people who enjoy being told what to do and talked down to by absolute idiots. There would be riots on the street in Paris if a politician spoke like this. The rational thing to discuss would be education around contraception. And yet we have an idiot giving our opinions on morals. Jesus wept. He fuppin wept at this sort of muck.

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    Mute Pauric Mcgowan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:29 PM

    Perhaps she should hop back into the Delorean and shit off back to the middle ages …

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    Mute Dave Garrett
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:33 PM

    This td needs to return to the cave she has obviously been living in for the last 40 years

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    Mute Frank2521
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:10 PM

    The country is bankrupt and this idiot is not helping taking the highest expenses and high pensions etc to talk rubbish. The values she perches have us in the mess we are in. No abortion – let somebody else deal with it. Thankfully the BRITISH are more compassionate.

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    Mute Unitedpeople Ireland
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:23 PM

    I would like to know what other ways also likely cause unwanted pregnancies?
    A somewhat strange statement from her.

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    Mute MyItchySole
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:25 PM

    Immaculate conceptions.

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    Mute Sarah Ní Riain
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:43 PM

    Fornication means “sex outside marriage”. Plenty of married couples have unwanted pregnancies also.

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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:04 PM

    Drunken unprotected sex inside marriage would also do the trick. But there’s a better chance of getting over the shock and getting on with life.

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    Mute Brian Greene
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:52 PM

    I’m scared. Does The Journal offer help line numbers with stories like this. Its like I’m in an episode of Quantum Leap and landed in 1968 Ireland.

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    Mute Sheila Byrne
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:40 PM

    @ brian Greene,

    No, you’re actually still in 2012! and yes, the story is unfortunately true and yes, she was voted into Government and is paid a huge salary to make idiotic statements like this. Oh ya, she’ll get a great pension too!

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    Mute fitszenpatrik
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:27 PM

    She is quite right. I double bag it, and that’s just on nights when I am staying home.

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    Mute Diarmaid Twomey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:15 PM

    We need a discussion, in this day and age, how people like you get elected.

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    Mute Johnny Slater
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:26 PM

    Sex Tax on the way!

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    Mute Leona Dolan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:19 PM

    I think it’s a disgrace that her “broadening” of the conversation overshadowed the actual issue here, if there is a serious threat to the mothers health why oh why is it against the law to terminate, I know there would have to be specific definitions in place but I genuinely think it’s a disgrace for our government to turn their back on this. I am utterly against nominal abortion but WTF?! If a woman’s physical or mental health is in serious danger then what – let them die or let another country look after it. Keep Vatholic Ireland happy – look what a great job they’ve done in the last 50 years. ( I knows it’s some not all but they need a revamp too!!) Rant over.

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    Mute Michael Hayes
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:51 PM

    Her speaking on the subject alone is a shame she done more harm,

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    Mute Stephen Long
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:32 PM

    Who is this absolute nutjob???

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    Mute Kevin Wynne
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:09 PM

    I cannot beleive that we have the likes of this lunatic in the dail. I feel so sorry for the people of Mayo if all they have to represent them is this idiot and that gombeen Enda. We must be a worldwide laughing stock by now.

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    Mute Bingo bus
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:23 PM

    Is she wrong in what she says? Is it not the duty of more people to take responsibility for their own actions and choices and have a mature discussion about sex and the responsibility that goes with it. Just because she mentions abstinence we shouldn’t all jump down her throat and brand her as some religious zealot.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:46 PM

    Bingo, it was she herself introduced the religious aspect in the Dail today, speaking about “the grace of God…”

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    Mute Bingo bus
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:29 PM

    Ok fair point. She isn’t necessarily the best representative, but the basic message I.e. be more careful when having sex is a laudable one.

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    Mute mart_n
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:41 PM

    It’s not laudable when condensed into the larger world view of the person espousing it. That’s an idealism, not a form of pragmatism.

    If she wants to be seen as being pragmatically minded in all of then she needs to rethink her own reasons for arriving at her conclusion, and not rely on any ‘God Words’ to justify it.

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    Mute NicDaibheid
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:26 PM

    Coming across like very well-reasoned comments. Whilst using such langauge as ‘fornication’, referring to certain people as weak, and bringing religion into things was remarkably and scarily out of touch with what preys on most of our minds, she’s actually got a good point. It has be a fact that engaging in casual and pre-marital sex is risky due to presumably unwanted pregnancies and STDs and all other things. This isn’t about judging those who do but broadening the debate to help people make better decisions in life. It also, I am sure, is not about judging those who are in long-term, committed non-marital relationships. Alot of the literature online these days relating to women and sex portray sex as something trivial like going shopping or going to the cinema, they say “it’s just sex” and women should be allowed to do whatever they want, but they’re just damaging themselves if they say and believe that. Women should be allowed to do whatever they want but it’s not ‘just’ something, it an extremely intimate phyiscal act that can have disastrous consequences. I think women Libbers sometimes forget what they’re fighting for. All that said, none of that relates to abortion or has consequence upon it. In my view, women should always have the right to make decisions about their life and their body. Also, note that it appears Mulherin is in agreement with making abortion available. I’m sure none of that makes sense and I’ll get a zillion red thumbs but I’ll take my chances.

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    Mute Ronan Kennedy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:34 PM

    ‘they’re just damaging themselves’ What do you mean by that? How is sex ‘damaging’?

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    Mute NicDaibheid
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:48 PM

    I suppose what I mean by damaging, is that engaging in casual sex and generally following an attitude that “women should be allowed to do what they want without actually thinking of the pros and cons of the subject of their want” can have damaging effects such as pregnancies, low-self-esteem, STDs, etc. Of course, sex is not damaging and I am not engaging in judgments on others, rather thinking perhaps more thought should be go into things in this area.

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    Mute ☀Fornication Rules☀
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:49 PM

    I like sex there for I’m going to have sex, it’s a basic need and a damn good one too

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    Mute Eugene O'Rourke
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:55 PM

    @Ronan. I am assuming NicDaibheid means in relation to STD’s etc if not practicing safe sex. Honestly who cares who is having sex with who once they don’t expect others to pick up the tab and having safe sex. I think there is merit in looking at the cost of lone parents payments etc as their are genuine cases who need support and then their is cases which are de-frauding the tax payer

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    Mute Ronan Kennedy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:31 PM

    I find the idea that women who have many sexual partners as ‘problematic’ is wrong. (‘Slut’ shaming)

    http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-slut-shaming/

    ‘women should be allowed to do what they want without actually thinking of the pros and cons of the subject of their want’

    If this is the case then why are we only discussing women? Should men who have many sexual partners be a ‘problem’ aslo?

    Sex is only a problem if the person engaging in it is being irresponsible by putting themselves or their partner(s) at risk by being unsafe.

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    Mute NicDaibheid
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    Apr 20th 2012, 2:43 AM

    @RonanKennedy I suppose I referred to women as they are the ones who directly have to face abortion which was the starting point for the article. My comments on women equally apply to men.

    The last line of your comment sums up exactly what I’ve been saying. It’s so difficult in these areas to express subtleties in viewpoints. Just like there’s a tendency to label someone as politically left or right, there’s a tendency to label people’s opinons in relation to sexual matters as either judgmental and didactic or wholly liberal. I just think it’s quite enlightening to hear Mulherin’s comments as so much of the media and general online writings appear to not entertain anything other than the “have sex as much as you want with as many partners as you want, sure it’s all a bit of a laugh” school of thought.

    Although, the question as to whether it’s appropriate for an elected TD to be commenting on these areas is certainly up for debate.

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    Mute Michael Hayes
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:59 PM

    How does marriage ensure that a child has two parent figures, have you heard of seperation/divorce , get real

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    Mute Lisa Saputo
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:14 PM

    You can get pregnant from sex? This changes everything. This woman is one stupid bloody fool, backward little backbencher who got in on Enda Kenny’s coattails trying to make a name for herself with some half baked nonsense that Mary Whitehouse would be ashamed of. She needs to go back to teaching kids and leave the business of politics to people with at least half a brain.

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    Mute Helen Downey
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    Apr 20th 2012, 12:50 AM

    You would let her teach any child of yours when she obviously hasn’t a clue?!!!!!!

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    Mute Elizabeth Moore
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:29 PM

    I’m not schizophrenic,” she said.

    Why would she say that? unless she knows she is inside.

    She really let her true self show there.

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    Mute David McDermott
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:45 PM

    Santorum part 2. Seriously is this woman sane!

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    Mute Fagan's
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:50 PM

    I suppose “Horseing it in all bareback like” wouldn’t have been app. for Leinster Hse. People certainly do need to be careful about their sexual health. Carry protection at all times. Please God ya might even get to use it before it the expiry date is up.

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    Mute The Burning bush
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:09 PM

    God will punish you in the afterlife for using prophylactics, he doesn’t mind though if you get any of the following

    HIV
    Herpes
    Gonorrhea
    Syphilis
    Chlamydia
    Genital Warts

    The Pope has informed me that there can be no ifs or buts about it. He told me also that if you have children out of wedlock that they go straight to hell, so……..NO FORNICATION

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    Mute Chuck Farrelly
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:40 PM

    Is your name a pun? If so, it’s a good one

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    Mute The Burning bush
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    Apr 20th 2012, 8:51 PM

    Not sure what I was going for there Chuck when I picked that one out

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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:11 PM

    I think a lot of parents of teenagers might view sex as more than a pleasant hobby among consenting friends. Are people overlooking the emotional and psychological aspects as well as the physical dangers. As for drunk kids and condoms- not a great mix. If that’s all that was protecting my son or daughter from an STD or AIDS, I’d be very fearful indeed. Not too into this TD’s wording, but this is a topic worthy of some debate.

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    Mute Caroline Molloy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:19 PM

    This Mulherrin clown is another career politician in the same ” never done anything, never been anywhere” vein as that intellectual powerhouse Mary Coughlan

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    Mute Sheila Byrne
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:27 PM

    “assuming in a lot of cases, and just I suppose from anecdotal stories and so on, evidence… we know people are having casual sex and that therefore pregnancies arise that weren’t planned and that aren’t wanted.
    …We need as individuals to have a discussion around who in this day and age is having unprotected sex, with AIDS, with sexually transmitted diseases – ”

    Is this woman for real? in one sentence she says “assuming” on the same sentence she uses “evidence” that it’s ONLY people having casual sex and unmarried that are having unwanted pregnancies!!!! People can get pregnant when using a condom and taking the pill! Be they married or unmarried! She reminds me of the fools that used to do the ‘pre-marriage courses’ which unfortunately, many of us had to do! She hasn’t a f . . king clue! I am understanding her as saying she wants ONLY married people to have sex! and …. only to have sex at the “safe” time of the month!

    Many, many adults are in relationships for years. Is she telling them never to have sex, only to touch each other and kiss? This fool doesn’t understand what love is…. sex is part of that love between two people, hetrosexuals, homosexuals, lesbians etc. Marriage was invented by her church and others. How dare she disrespect 1,000′s of couples who choose not to marry and also that have wonderful, beautiful, happy children. I really don’t understand how these people get the votes and the salary that we are paying them. She’s an idiot and should resign or at least apologize to all those people.

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    Mute Peter 66
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:36 PM

    Lesbians are homosexuals.

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    Mute Brian Mc Cabe
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:52 PM

    CHRIST !!! You mean it’s not just Enda ,, there’s more of them up there?

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    Mute Tony Stanley
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:55 PM

    Her context is all wrong!

    Unprotected sex shouldn’t just be about unwanted babies and sex before marriage (come on, why does everything in this country need to be related to religion?), it should be about the spreading of unwanted and sometimes fatal diseases that effect all people, not just the straight folk!

    A baby will upset the lives of 2 people but won’t essentially cause untold hardship and unhappiness, but HIV and AIDS can effect many people (if it’s spread by one person to many partners) and can cause massive destruction to families and lives!

    So if this stupid and boring woman is going to hark on about unprotected sex at least get the argument right!

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    Mute Abby
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:08 PM

    Not even HIV and AIDS, but STDs in general.

    But I think pregnancy is still the bigger issue. Not only could an unwanted pregnancy ruin a woman’s chances in life, but having a child outside of marriage due to carelessness is selfish. The birth of a child to two married parents will always be the ideal.

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    Mute Ryan Allen
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:18 PM

    Well according to the article she, em, did:

    “…We need as individuals to have a discussion around who in this day and age is having unprotected sex, with AIDS, with sexually transmitted diseases – in fact, in those sorts of scenarios, pregnancy is a welcome outcome compared to all that can happen to an individual.”

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    Mute ☀Fornication Rules☀
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:18 PM

    Abbey so what if your in a loving long term relationship when your NOT married just because you see it as an outdated piece of paper ?
    Also many women over 40 who are married are a growing group that are using the services in England

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    Mute Jonno
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:22 PM

    Why did she want to introduce a religious aspect to the discussion?

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    Mute Caroline Molloy
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:12 PM

    She thinks foreplay is a game of golf

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    Mute mcbab
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:28 PM

    She is entitled to her opinion whether you or I agree with her or not.

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    Mute MsPoppie
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:01 PM

    This is a debate mcbab, debates should deal with facts and not personal opinions.

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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:26 PM

    The Liberals For Censorship view is that only facts and opinions in line with self righteous liberal opinion has a right to speech.

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    Mute Glyn Carragher
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:18 PM

    just going to sit back and watch this one all evening :) ………

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    Mute Glyn Carragher
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:19 PM

    ??? sorry comment posted twice ??

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    Mute franco
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:03 PM

    the lord shall smite thee for thy fornication…….

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    Mute Seamus McDermott
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    Apr 19th 2012, 9:35 PM

    A bit of a motor-mouth considering she’s representing a constituency from the 19th century, isn’t she?
    This is the rhetorical equivalent of shooting the leaders of the uprising. She’s just lit the fuse. A sin, indeed.

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    Mute Padraig Nolan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:24 PM

    Mayo is far from a 19th century constituency. However this deluded, out of touch woman is a disgrace to my home county. Her true constituency lies somewhere in outer space.

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    Mute Seamus McDermott
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    Apr 20th 2012, 7:23 AM

    The Red and Green are certainly in the 21st century, Padraig. I was referring to the “constituency” in her head.

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    Mute Eoin Ryan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:35 PM

    @ johnny slatter no tax for u i hear your a virgin boy anyway

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    Mute Johnny Slater
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:47 PM

    True, but i’m looking to the future Eoin.

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    Mute pip white
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    Apr 20th 2012, 12:07 AM

    there is no excuse for girls and fellas not been careful when their having sex. in all fairness why should I have to be paying for lone parents. I know most are not in that position by choice and they would rather have a job and so on. but lets be honest there is shit loads of girls claiming lone parents while the fella lives with them and he works bed she’s claiming for everything she can get. I can’t claim for anything and am paying more tax each fecking month. I can’t before to go away to have certain things that I should be able to because I work and I chose not to have kids. but these youngones manage to go out every weekend go away every year . and there meant to be on lone parents.

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    Mute ian mc dermott
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    Apr 20th 2012, 12:54 AM

    First the Flynn’s and now this “plank”. Where do Mayo get them ?

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    Mute Ed Appleby
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    Apr 20th 2012, 6:24 PM

    You forgot bellEnda!

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    Mute Abby
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:22 PM

    I’m not saying that your relationship isn’t real because you’re not married. I’m just making the point that having single parents can make things difficult. Marriage is the best way of ensuring that a child has two parent figures in his or her life and every child deserves two parents.

    But I don’t believe that most unwanted pregnancies arise out of long-term relationships. I think that women in Ireland – not teenagers, it’s mostly women in their 20s and 30s – need to cop on when it comes to contraception. Contraception is more widely available now than ever and while it isn’t 100% effective, it’s clear that Irish women aren’t being responsible about it.

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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:52 PM

    Such heresy to pseudo liberal ears. Alas the righteous folk on the journal will not respect your words of wisdom. They’ll go on in their carefree ways and foolishly trust in sparse legal protection until the happy days end.

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    Mute ☀Fornication Rules☀
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    Apr 20th 2012, 10:07 AM

    That’s bollocks being married to a goon male/female does not mean your going to be supported after the break up

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    Mute Richard Keogh
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    Apr 20th 2012, 1:56 AM

    Where do the blueshirts get them from? I assume she was at the meeting over the Vatican embassy with the rosary beads. Considering the large numbers of people traumatised due to control by the church of government policy in the past, you would think politicians would’ve grasped by now the need to keep church and state totally separate. What two(or more) consenting adults choose to do in private is no business of her or the government, tho Phil Hogan would probably bring in a sex tax if he thought he could get away with it.

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:00 PM

    Was she drunk when she lost control of herself? Maybe she got carried away. She sounds like she was interviewed after an orgasim. No other explanation for the poor English. Is she underage?…… Intellectually I mean.

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    Mute Frank Bohan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:38 PM

    While Fine Gael are attempting to influence laws with scripture, Sinn Fein are up to 21% support.
    Are we finally getting a left and right in Irish politics?

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    Mute Abby
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    Apr 19th 2012, 7:31 PM

    @ Fornication Rules

    I don’t know too many like that. There’s no commitment in being in a long term and loving relationship, someone could easily just walk away. I’m not saying all marriages are perfect either but if you’re in it for the long haul I don’t know why you’d have any objections to signing a piece of paper to that effect.

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    Mute MsPoppie
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:28 PM

    Hang on one second now, I’ve been in a relationship with my boyfriend for 10 years, at the moment we are still VERY MUCH in love and committed to each other. We did discuss marriage, but we decided against it because neither of us are religious, and well, frankly it’s a waste of money.

    I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that I’m in a committed relationship. For now we are in it “for the long haul” but I can’t see into the future, so I can’t say for certain our relationship will last until the day we die, anything could happen between now and then and in the end if unfortunately it did end for whatever reason, at least we wont have to waste more money and go through the painful process of a divorce.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 8:50 PM

    Hi Abby, what’s the weather like back there in the 19th century?

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    Mute Frank Caffrey
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    Apr 19th 2012, 10:38 PM

    Sadly too many on the journal are closed minded liberals too naive to see that customs built up over centuries might have some value.

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    Mute Michelle Rogers
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    Apr 20th 2012, 10:48 AM

    Um, Abby we are all free individuals. I have been in a committed relationship for 30 years now and we have a lovely son. We never needed to get married. This is not a lack of commitment. We did not feel so insecure in our relationship that we needed a legally-binding contract to protect our rights, nor did we feel we had to have a public ritual to demonstrate our commitment to family and society. I do understand the historical context for marriage, when it was more of an economic contract, when religion made sex outside of marriage wrong, when families wanted to make sure that their daughters (who they ‘gave away’) were not impregnated and left, but haven’t we moved on? I am not criticising marriage – it is a lovely thing if people do feel the need for it or want that kind of ceremony, but let’s face it, whether you are married or not your relationship can still break up and of course many marriages do – it is the day-to-day commitment to do better, be a better partner, try to accept your loved one unconditionally and just stick with it that is really important and reaps so many rewards. I often feel a bit annoyed when I hear statistics that lump people living together into one group – of course within that group you are going to have people who are living together without commitment, or relationships that didn’t work out, so this kind of skews the statistics about break-up of relationships of people who are not married. It is an idiotic category and I also sometimes wonder why people have nothing better to do than worry about the fact that people like me are not married and how bad a thing that is! Y’all have a nice day now!

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Apr 20th 2012, 11:24 AM

    Thanks, Frank, you gave me a chuckle there. For someone who supports what is in effect religious tyranny, tyranny that forces those who are not adherents to follow its precepts, to then call others ‘closed minded’ is simply mind-boggling.

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    Mute Elizabeth Moore
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:32 PM

    She is a solicitor for goodness sake, and once people understand who runs the judicial system, court corporations, etc, then they know Vatican is the core of authority and all answer to it.
    The BAR , Temple Bar in UK- all take oath of allegience to it and they in turn answer to the Pope.

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    Mute Bobby
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    Apr 20th 2012, 12:54 AM

    Who are her staff? Are the Parliamentary Assistants not meant to read and examine every word any TD says? Considering she is from Mayo, The Taoiseach’s constituency wouldn’t you think that she would pick the best??? Time for an office shuffle? I am with her on some of the thoughts she raised but other wise I think Michelle that you have corssed a line that debate will not cover up. Best to stay in Mayo and look after your own.

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    Mute Mike White
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    Apr 20th 2012, 3:35 AM

    If you’re ‘not getting any’, its all you can think about. Sex on the brain obviously ;)

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    Mute Frank Comments
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    Apr 20th 2012, 1:20 AM

    Think it is fair to put up her full speech…. I went looking just to make sure that we werent all jumping the gun a bit…and I do think it is ever so slightly a case of LOST IN TRANSLATION….. I was sticking the auld knife in earlier and I do feel like backing down a wee bit…
    http://corkfeminista.com/tag/michelle-mulherin/

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    Mute Steph Duffy
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    Apr 20th 2012, 9:39 AM

    The issue here should not be this womans outdated views on marriage and sex. It should be what is going to happen next? Why was it voted down and when is a revised bill going to be presented?

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    Mute paul
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    Apr 20th 2012, 6:52 AM

    I wonder Is this the reason she is on earth
    Unprotected sex and she has a hang up over it . Sad thing is we are paying her salary for her to come out with this crap

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    Mute Bree O'Brien Walsh
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    Apr 20th 2012, 8:41 AM

    Just when I think this so-called government can’t sink any lower, This moronic woman shoots her mouth off (Sorry if the terminology evokes too sexual an image for you there Michelle.. Down with that sort of thing and all that) At the end of the day, It is not her or any other elected representatives role to tell the populace in 2012 how to conduct themselves sexually. If 2 (or more) consenting adults fail to have safe sex leading to STI’s or unwanted pregnancy, It will fall to 1 or both of them to deal with the decision making in order to achieve the best outcome. At a time when the Euro is weak and close to collapse, Inda is an empty vassal who merely passes on the Troikas demands to an ever despairing populace, and Irish women in 2012 still cannot claim FULL reproductive autonomy, I think Michelle has just served to show us up, once again, for the backward, moving statue viewing little bog that deep down Ireland really is. I despair.

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    Mute starry eyed surprise
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    Apr 20th 2012, 7:34 AM

    She’s dead right, personal responsibility and morality have been long forgotten in this Country! From reading comments on here over d last few days it appears that one can not be pro life without being a religious nut! What happened to basic self respect and respect for life? You don’t need to be religious for these! Morality has gone out the window and a casual attitude to sex is causing huge problems in this country! I’m sure I’ll get plenty of red thumbs for this comment but I really don’t care! Where does personal responsibility come into all of this? I for one am pleased d gov rejected this bill and I don’t believe it’s because they are ruled by d church but maybe they just have a conscience and don’t like d idea of killing babies!

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    Mute Ed Appleby
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    Apr 20th 2012, 6:29 PM

    Hey starry eyed, what you up to later? I got some tasty strawberry flavoured condoms! Taste like jelly babies!

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    Mute Brendan Crowe
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    Apr 20th 2012, 9:29 AM

    she has a head like a bag of crucifixes

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    Mute Ru Ni Digs
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    Apr 20th 2012, 12:21 PM

    Here is the crux of the problem : “explaining that she had sought to introduce a religious aspect to the discussion to try and broaden the debate.”

    Introducing religion to any discussion,doesn’t broaden the debate. Michelle Mulherin should really pray to the invisible sky god to help her to stop saying stupid shit.

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    Mute dougal1969
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    Apr 20th 2012, 3:06 PM

    Cromwell said “to hell or to Connaught”.. Michelle seems to be trying to get God back on her side. And then Michelle can say ” to Connaught and heaven..” well done deputy /savior…

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    Mute John Foody
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    Apr 20th 2012, 5:18 PM

    Her comments are poorly timed. They suggests a willingness to somehow blame all women for getting in a situation where they need an abortion. Which must be upsetting to the women we are currently forcing on planes to England.

    If she wanted to be more productive why not call for an end to tax on contraceptives or even subsidies for them, better education etc etc

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    Mute John Nagle
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    Apr 22nd 2012, 12:01 AM

    Here we go again in the middle of a baby boom and Michelle of F/G light the touch paper of our dark side sex. The hidden part of our Irishness. Michelle you may have started a run on Sperm Banks. To think what F/G could with this No sex for the little people it,s to good for them. How long must we put up with fools like this when are we going to dump them, and put the young people in, so as this country and get back on it,s feet and we can live again with good sex.

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    Mute Mark Kirwan
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    Apr 19th 2012, 6:43 PM

    We really, really don’t

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    Mute Jonathan Biggins
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    Apr 20th 2012, 5:52 PM

    “It’s not a word I invented.”

    No, you fossil, it’s a word you used.

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    Mute paul
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    Apr 20th 2012, 7:15 AM

    Why was my post taken down Gavin.

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    Mute Michael Hayes
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    Apr 19th 2012, 11:01 PM

    Rabbits

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