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THERE IS NO preconceived outcome to the the public forum being organised by the government to discuss Ireland’s foreign policy, including neutrality, according to Tánaiste Micheál Martin.
The forum will take place in three different locations across four days in June 2023:
22 June at University College Cork
23 June at the University of Galway
26-27 June at Dublin Castle
Outlining the plans to the media after Cabinet this afternoon, Martin said it will be an “open, informed, respectful and evidence-based discussion” on Ireland’s foreign policy.
“There’s no pre preconceived idea in terms of the outcome of the debate, but I do you think it’s important that we have this national debate,” he said.
The Tánaiste said last month that his proposals seek to address how Ireland’s neutrality “may evolve”.
Experts in security policy, academics, and members of the public will take part in the forum which he said is designed to build public understanding and generate discussions on the link between the State’s wider foreign policy approach, and national security and resilience.
“People have their own political views and perspectives on this and that’s why the forum will allow the for submissions from the public and individuals,” he added.
Since the crisis in Ukraine began, Martin has spoken about his belief that there should be a debate in Ireland on its long-standing tradition of military neutrality.
When asked why the government didn’t opt for a Citizens’ Assembly on the issue, the Tánaiste said he believes this forum is a “better model for the subject matter”.
The issues go to the core political philosophy of political parties, he said. He told reporters the makeup of the debate will allow for the “widest dissemination of those views” to come forward.
The Tánaiste has stated that Ireland is not politically or morally neutral on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Over the four days in June, the topics of conversation will include:
The rules-based international order
Engagement in peacekeeping,
Conflict prevention and peacebuilding
Lessons from our UN Security Council membership
Global strategic stability
International arms control and proliferation challenges
Challenges posed by new and emerging threats.
The independent chairperson of the forum is Louise Richardson and a report following the events will be used to inform any recommendations to government.
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It is understood that speakers from a range of backgrounds and political philosophies will be invited to take part, with between four and five sessions to take place each day.
Geopolitical realities
Since the conflict began in Ukraine, western governments have scrambled to form and maintain a united front against Russian President Vladimir Putin’s aggression.
This has been achieved by imposing heavy sanctions and through pledges of military and humanitarian aid in support of Ukraine.
As Ireland is a neutral country, the Government has had to navigate new geopolitical realities under that umbrella, with Martin’s line that Ireland is “militarily neutral, we’re not politically neutral” repeated by senior ministers since the conflict began.
The Journal reported earlier this year that the Government is considering new legislation that could allow Irish special forces to be dispatched on foreign missions.
It has emerged that reviews of the so-called ‘Triple Lock’ system is on the table this year.
The Triple Lock system is a policy measure whereby there needs to be separate approval by the Government, the Dáil and a UN Resolution to mandate a mission in order to send more than 12 Irish troops abroad.
It’s understood that discussions surrounding the Triple Lock will be held at the upcoming forum.
A change to the Triple Lock system was mooted by then Minister for Defence and Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney in November, after Fine Gael members voted in favour of such a move at its annual conference.
It has now been included in a Government policy document. Such a departure from that mechanism would be a major change in Ireland’s foreign policy.
But Taoiseach Leo Varadkar recently said he does not believe Ireland is becoming isolated in EU circles due to its lack of participation in Nato.
“There are four countries in the European Union that are not members of Nato and don’t intend to join Nato,” said Varadkar.
“There’s very good and fair understanding of our position, and our particular sensitivities and culture and politics around that.
“I’ve never for a second felt under pressure from other prime ministers or presidents to change our position on it.”
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If we’re supposed to surrender our neutrality to anyone, then there needs to be a referendum ,Jesus christ what’s happening to Ireland ? if we loose our stance on trying to remain a neutral peaceful country , with our own history of troubles that nobody ever wants to experience ever again , then we need to stand up against & remove this rotten FGFFGP trio imposed government!
@Colette Kearns: Ireland is currently militarily neutral, it has never been politically neutral. Several words spring to mind for those who want to remove a democratically elected Govt from office.
According to this article “Topics of conversation will include: The rules-based international order.”
As this ‘initiative’ is another round in the dismantling of our neutrality by a thousand cuts, let’s start with the above item. What – and be exact – are the rules? Who made them? Who applies them? On or against whom? But, first – what are the rules? The government keeps referring to the rules so it must know what the rules are.
@Declan McKenna:
The Rules are whatever the US decides.
This attempt to get us into NATO by World Economic graduate Varadkar must be strongly opposed.
Once US bases are in Ireland we loose our sovereignty. Unlike the Eu, you cannot leave NATO.
@Brian Boru: According to a poll conducted by Red C, https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-more-irish-want-to-join-nato/
48% want to join NATO,
59% want ireland to increase military spending, but that doesn’t necessarily mean NATO. You can increase military spending and still maintain neutrality,
57% say we shouldn’t drop our policy of neutrality, which doesn’t gel with the 48% to join NATO.
At least this forum might mean we are honest with ourselves as to our foreign policies and what the consequences of those policies are.
@Brian Boru: Not all want to be neutral. I favour NATO membership (and I have the right to that opinion before anyone tries to condemn me). Like it or not authoritarianism is on the rise and it’s going to impact us all. Better sticking together with those who share our values and outlook than sitting on the sidelines without the ability to influence decisions that will impact us.
We have never been neutral in any war but now we live in a multi media society where everyone is aware of every action we take. But I definitely do want a referendum if they are going to impose non neutrality. We are giving statis to vulnerable refugees which is putting us at risk. People need to be given a say and that isn’t racist to say so
Either you are neutral or not. Given China’s push to rule the world, might be time to join NATO and pick a side!! It would just be symbolic given Ireland has no tanks, F-14s or submarines. I say join NATO.
@Paulco: Ireland has an artificially high GDP, over 500 billion expressed in US dollars, due to a lot of foreign multinationals. As NATO, want all members to spend 2% of GDP on defence by 2024, that means 10 billion per year. Even if we got the % based on GNP, thats still a lot of money. Better things to spend it on.
@Paulco:
China’s push to rule the world?
How many military bases has China outside its borders? 0,1 or 2.
How many military bases does the US have outside its borders? Almost 1,000, some of them encircling China. And it’s building 3 new bases in Philippines in preparation for war with its competitor China.
The US (and the Brits) have never seen a war their arms industries don’t love.
@Den O’Con: Iceland’s NATO budget is 0 krona, it doesn’t have a military. This is just a fact, I’m not arguing for NATO memberships, I support our neutrality.
Also, in 2022, 21 out of 30 NATO members spent less than 2% on their military. The NATO 2% is just a guideline.
Putin wanted to take Moldova so he could attack Ukraine from the west. Moldova is of huge strategic importance to putin.. Likewise, Ireland is of huge strategic importance to the big boys. We’re a massive aircraft carrier and a launch base. By definition, a neutral country should have the military capability to protect that neutrality. Let’s not kid ourselves here!
Ireland has been a respected neutral country since the foundation of the State and should stay that way. This government is hell bent on undermining our neutrality.
I know this awful government want to abolish our neutrality, but sadly so will Sinn Fein, they have shown again, and again they will sell out every principle.
Independant chairperson my ar5e, appointed by the govt to recommend what the govt wants to hear just like the supposed NGOs all paid for by the govt. Fiscal advisory council all former govt workers in some shape or form advising the govt to increase prsi to pay for pensions,not ours like they would lead you to believe but theirs. If you want to know what the govt wants look at the comments from the paid subscribers on here, David Jordan, D Memery and particularly Stephen Kearon a former govt advisor (FF) who is routinely rude and abrupt to commentators on here who have the audacity to question govt policy. We do not need to change our stance on neutrality we are too strategic to England and the US for them to allow a belligerent foreign country to invade. In fact it would be near impossible for either Russia or China to invade Ireland given the amount of NATO airspace and waters they would have to cross to get here in any force. This is just EU kiss ass posturing from Martin, Varadkar and Ryan because no matter how much we spend we could hardly repel dad’s army if they tried to invade. Absolutely no need to change our militarily neutral stance whatsoever we have the same level of protection anyway
Wow people chill! It’s a consultative forum not a decision making body. They are literally going to discuss our current position in the modern world and other alternative neutral states. They will literally be gathering information for future proposals not deciding who we’ll invade first!!
@Paul Clancy:
You are naive. Just look at the timing, the day after neutral Finland joins NATO.
The lads can’t wait for all those lucrative contracts/jobs when we join NATO and have to spend minimum 2% of GPD on arms instead of education, health, housing.
@Paul Clancy: it’s funny how to make any significant reform in Ireland takes 3 decades of faffing and a never ending cycle of commissioning reports setting up quangos forums assemblies and whatever other long tedious paper shuffling forum can be engaged / see Media Commission or Metro Project for examples / so this is just the first stab which will “ commission a report” so you can relax people even if they want to make a fundamental shift it won’t be scheduled until 2050 at the earliest given our not fit for purpose administration of the country imo
@Síle Donohoe: NATO member, Iceland military budget is Zero. It doesn’t have a military. Also, in 2022, 21 out of 30 NATO members spent less than 2% on their military, the 2% of GDP is just a guideline.
Would ye stop with the fear mongering and ‘Reds under the bed’ crap. Time to wise up and relax folks. We are neutral for a good reason. Time to look after people and stop fantasising about global threats and FFFGGP distractions to real Irish problems.
The purpose of Michael Martin’s proposals is apparently to consider how Irish neutrality “may evolve”. This, of course, is rubbish. We are either neutral or we are not.
The article states:
“An independent Chairperson will be appointed, and they will deliver a report following the consultative forum, which can be used to inform any recommendations to Government.”
So the plan appears to be to get an “Independent Chairperson” to deliver a report recommending we effectively ditch our neutrality. That recommendation will then be used to “inform” a future recommendation to government by Michael Martin that we effectively ditch our neutrality.
Our navy and air force is a couple of rubber ducks and a kite. The reality is that Leo and MM just want to strike billion dollar arms deals with the yanks. Punching above our weight so to speak. It won’t be them or their kids that’ll be conscripted into ‘national service’ under the guise of a European army. But that’s all in the small print, and won’t be available until after. They’ll have to sell the idea first, probably with another €200 energy credit.
Why spend 2% of our GDP to get more or less what we already have? We are not politically neutral and align with nato countries on just about everything. We are the conduit to Europe from America for all kinds of stuff. We are as close the centre of nato territory as we could be. If anyone believes that the main players in nato would stand by and allow Russia to invade Ireland they are quite delusional. Not that they would be saving us for the love of Ireland but we are too strategically integrated and located to be allowed to be taken.
For the people who want to surrender neutrality.. please sign up your children to the armed forces, so they can die in some country you couldn’t find on a map..
I hope they discuss the extra massive spending on defence that will hit the tax payer hard .
Does anyone in the world want peace in Europe and Middle East ? Answer is quite simply no :(
It seems to me that the US does not want to be economically subservient to China so we’re all supposed to go to war to fight for “democracy” or “freedom” or “a rules based order” or whatever name they want to put on such a cause for the US economy. Possibly Ireland as a neutral country could listen to what both sides could bring to the table with regards the goal of improving society globally for all. Western society has many benefits but it is far from ideal.
Irish neutrality has never been anything more than a polite fiction. It came about because – understandably, De Valera was not prepared to join a military alliance with the country that had jailed him and his colleagues and executed several,of them.
But even in WW2, Ireland was neutral on the side of the allies, repatriating Allied airmen who crashed or landed in Ireland, but interning German airmen.
The country’s current official stance is simply morally vacuous. Ireland is not ideologically or politically neutral. Its “military neutrality” is no more than free riding on the security provided by others.
By all means argue for non-alignment or a radically different foreign policy, but stop arguing for political alignment and military neutrality. It’s rank hypocrisy
Favourite Guenther J. Rozenits Austrian Peace Academy
Report
Apr 14th 2023, 7:06 PM
As an Austrian, I enjoyed reading various arguments. Irish neutrality seems just as credible as Austria’s. Both seem completely incapable of defending the country – but some people, especially politicians, can always define defense as working with a 0.5 percent defense budget.
But first it must be clarified against whom one should defend oneself?
What are the real threats to your – and my – country?
Is Russia a direct military threat?
Is the communist People’s Republic of China a military or economic threat?
Are the US and NATO a threat to us, dragging our countries into issues we don’t like to stay away from?
The question also arises, what does neutrality mean in Europe today? Is neutrality possible in Europe today?
Should the EU be the core institute of European defense or should it be organized by NATO/USA?
Are we content with double standards in morality, the rule of law and human rights?
What is the so-called liberal world order? What are the rules for this? Are they being dictated by someone?
No, dear Irish friends, defense is a serious issue and requires at least 500,000 soldiers and reserves (based on a conscription system for all young people – yes young ladies too), very long-range artillery up to 200 km, modern tanks, anti-tank weapons up to 8,000 m, working air defense up to 150 km, more than 15 combat aircraft – let’s say 50 plus, anti-tank helicopters, logistics, logistics, logistics, three times medical support, cyber capabilities – defense and counterattack, etc. and in your case the defense of the Irish Sea and the coast.
All of this is costly, and a one-off defense is not enough. It requires 2-3 percent for decades and requires an initial investment of 15 to 20 billion euros.
But where should the weapon systems and ammunition come from? Yes, we need an independent defense industry – somehow coordinated within the framework of the EU/European Defense Agency.
All of this is a process that should begin soon and last forever. And if you’re really neutral, don’t complain about defense money – neutrality takes it.
Austria doesn’t have any of that – and YOU really want that?
Malta and Cyprus, the other two non-aligned EU members, are negligible when it comes to defense.
Even the paragon of defense, Switzerland, does not meet all of the above neutrality requirements.
And as a very last point, it should be mentioned that the people, your compatriots and especially your politicians, have to work for it – and then risk their lives! I recommend looking at Finland in this sense.
Director Austrian Peace Academy
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