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'A tenner a year lease': Martin says maternity hospital will effectively be in public ownership

Yesterday Cabinet delayed a final decision on the future of the new National Maternity Hospital (NMH) amid ongoing controversy over the project.

LAST UPDATE | 4 May 2022

TAOISEACH MICHEÁL MARTIN said the relocation of the National Maternity Hospital (NMH) to land owned by the Sisters of Charity religious order effectively amounts to public ownership.

Speaking during Leaders’ Questions, he said:

“It’s now 300-year lease at a tenner a year. That’s what the agreement says. And to me, that is public ownership.”

His comments come after Health Minister Stephen Donnelly said the government can give a “rock solid guarantee” that all health services provided for under Irish law will be available at the new National Maternity Hospital. 

The topic was raised at Fianna Fáil’s parliamentary party meeting this evening, where it was noted that there is “ongoing debate” about the hospital.

The meeting noted that progress has not been made in the area for decades, with the exception of Cork University Hospital, and that discussions on the new hospital have been ongoing since 2013.

The party wants to see the hospital brought “to a conclusion” and said patients deserve modern world class facilities”.

“We must also deliver modern neonatal facilities to ensure the best outcomes for all.”

Similarly, at Fine Gael’s parliamentary party meeting, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said concerns and questions regarding the planned NMH must be listened to and that clarity must be provided before the government makes a final decision.

Varadkar repeated the government’s assertion that all legally permissable procedures for a maternity hospital will be permitted and there will be no religious ethos determining the care provided.

In relation to a compulsory purchase order of the St Vincent’s hospital land, existing buildings and site, the Tánaiste it could cost the State many millions of euro, take years and might be refused.

Delay

Yesterday Cabinet delayed a final decision on the future of the new National Maternity Hospital (NMH) amid ongoing controversy over the project.

The Taoiseach said today there are “a lot of conspiracy theories” flying around about the ownership issues and the control of the future hospital. 

He told the Dáil that the Vatican will have nothing to do with the running of the new hospital “and will have nothing to do with it, that is gone”.

Any religious ethos or influence is ‘”out of the equation, totally”, said Martin. 

The Taoiseach said that the current hospital site is “not physically fit for purpose”, adding that women right now are not getting the conditions they deserve.Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald said the state should own the hospital grounds “outright”.

“We will own the building and not the land, which will remain in private ownership and that makes absolutely no sense when the state is footing the bill,” McDonald said.

Martin accepted that “legitimate concerns” have been raised about governance, but added that they had been “comprehensively addressed”.

“Not via rhetoric, but with legal guarantees and documents which have been published. I implore you to read them,” he said. 

Labour’s Ivana Bacik made similar calls, asking if the hospital is in public ownership in all but name, why not just outright ensure that it is in public ownership through compulsory purchase of the land. 

Donnelly is set to go before the Oireachtas Health Committee to answer questions about the plans before the matter goes back to Cabinet in two weeks’ time.

There have been concerns about the independence of the new hospital due to its location on land formerly owned by the Sister of Charity.

Guarantees 

Speaking to RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Minister Donnelly said he could guarantee “100″% that procedures such as abortion, tubal ligation, gender affirming surgery and assisted reproduction would be available at the hospital. 

Donnelly said the hospital would be obliged to provide these services as they are built into the operating licence as well as the Constitution. 

There is also a “golden share” held by the Minister for Health which allows for direct intervention if the hospital were deemed to b failing to do what it is legally required to do.

“There are more protections to ensure all services will be provided in this hospital than I would imagine any of the other maternity units around the country, so we can give an absolute rock solid guarantee on those questions,” he said.

The hospital is currently located at Holles Street in Dublin city centre, but is set to move to Elm Park, where it will be co-located with St Vincent’s Hospital.

Religious group the Sisters of Charity owned the land on which the NMH was to be built and this has led to years of debate about how the project should proceed. 

Following the increasing opposition to the plans, the Sisters of Charity announced an end to their involvement with the St Vincent’s Hospital Group in 2017 and said they would therefore not be involved in the ownership or management of the new NMH

The transfer of their shareholding of the SVHG has been beset with delays, however, and it was only confirmed last week that this had been completed. Under the deal the site would be leased from the SVHG for 299 years and she HSE will own the hospital itself. 

Donnelly acknowledged that the State had attempted to obtain the lands and that the position of St Vincent’s was “they didn’t want to sell or they didn’t want to give the lands”. 

However he said “it doesn’t really matter who owns the land, what matters is who owns the hospital, who controls the hospital and all of that is set out in the legal framework”. 

Transparency 

Speaking to reporters this afternoon, Minister Catherine Martin said the examination of the details before the Oireachtas Committee will be “a valuable process”.

The Green Party’s deputy leader noted that there was only five days between Cabinet meeting yesterday and the announcement last week that the transfer of shareholding had been completed. 

“Transparency is the key and I just believe in merits what is now happening, that there be further parliamentary scrutiny, that the minister we go before the Health Committee and that we as Cabinet are then informed by the observations when Minister Donnelly returns,” she said. 

Martin said that clinical independence of the hospital must be “crystal clear, rock solid” but she declined to say whether changes to the legal framework would be required for her to support it. 

I want to hear what happens in the Health Committee. As I said i, t was five days from from the transfer the shareholding slash and we were being asked to approve the legal framework.

She added: “I do believe it a number of safeguards have been put in place but all safeguards need to be examined to make sure that we guarantee a State investment of this significance.” 

Agreement by all at Cabinet, says Harris 

While there have been reports that it was Green Party ministers that pushed the pause button yesterday, Higher Education Minister Simon Harris told reporters today that there was unanimity around the Cabinet table yesterday. 

He said there was agreement across the three Government parties, and all genders. 

Harris said it “made sense to share the information” with the Oireachtas and the Irish people. 

The health minister has made the “right call” in publishing all the documents, said Harris, stating: “This is a big decision, it is one to get right.”

Co-location of the maternity hospital on the St Vincent’s site is the right decision, said Harris, however he added that it is “not good enough” for him to just say that.

There has to be answers to the legitimate questions that people have, said Harris. 

‘We do at some point have to make a decision on this – this can’t go on forever and a day,” he added. 

“We must govern in the sunshine, we should be transparent in relation to this,” Harris told reporters. 

Pausing the process for a “matter of weeks” is a “good thing to do”, he maintained. 

“This is a big decision. We’re going to do with the state of the art hospital for the women of Ireland and their babies. Why not have that transparency? Why not publish the documents?” said Harris, stating that the Opposition was right in asking for this to go before the Oireachtas Health Committee for further scrutiny. 

“I think it’s a great idea. I think it’s very sensible idea,” he said.

Harris said he listens to the doctors working in maternity hospitals when it comes to views on this matter, stating:

“They’re the people that I listened to when I was Minister for Health, the people that we trust with the care of women in this country in the delivery of babies.

“I also know and everybody knows that in times when something goes wrong in a maternity hospital and things can sadly go wrong, as Minister for Health you get a notification, you get a report, every time there’s a maternal death in this country. That stays with you forever,” he said.

Harris said there is a better clinical outcome when maternity hospitals are located next to an adult hospital, so women are “not waiting for an ambulance, or sometimes other means, to actually get to the hospital”.

“We should listen to the doctors working in the hospital today and we should ask them a very simple question. Are you satisfied that this is good? Are you satisfied that you can go back to your job? Are you satisfied there will be no interference?

“And I hope we can maybe take down the tone. Not to say that one person cares more than the other person,” he said.

Harris added that there was a need to have a “rational, informed discussion in full transparency”. 

Improving care

Donnelly said he wanted to emphasise how important the hospital is for improving the quality of maternity care provided in Ireland.

“Right now we have women in 14-bed wards,wards that have insufficient toilet and shower facilities,” he said.

“We have women in labour queuing in public corridors to get access to toilets, to get access to showers. It’s simply not something we can stand over any longer.

“We’ve been talking about this hospital now for nine years. It’s the most important investment in infrastructure and women’s health care in the history of the State, so it’s really, really important that we bear in mind – whilst providing all of the assurances – just how essential for health care this hospital is going to be.”

Speaking this afternoon, Higher Education Minister Simon Harris said there was “unanimity” across the three parties at yesterday’s Cabinet meeting that it “absolutely made sense” to delay the decision and publish the documents in relation to it. 

“Absolutely, I believe that co-locating the National Maternity Hospital on the grounds of St Vincent’s is right. I also know, though, it’s not good enough for me to believe that’s right. We’ve got to answer the legitimate questions that people have,” he said.

“We should govern in the sunshine, we should be transparent in relation to this, and I think after a process that’s been going on for many years, I think providing a matter of weeks is a good thing to do.”

Labour leader Ivana Bacik said there are still “very serious and very valid concerns remaining around the ownership control and governance” of the new NMH.

“The reality is that the hospital will not be built on state land. The St. Vincent’s Healthcare Group remain the landlord and I’ve looked at the lease agreement on the HSE website. They’re described as the landlord, the HSE will be the tenant, there’s a provision for an €850,000 per annum rent. So the ownership is simply not vested in the State,” she told Morning Ireland.

If the lease is to be so long, then why not simply hand over the land to the State? What is the blockage on that? We know from what the Minister said that the State did seek to take the land and in entirety, so there’s still that question: Why have St. Vincent’s Healthcare Group retained this ownership of the land?

Bacik also said that concerns remain about the governance of the hospital, focusing on a phrase in the NMH designated activity company document stating that the hospital will provide all “clinically appropriate” and “legally permissible” healthcare. 

“It’s that “clinically appropriate” phrase that I think does raise serious concerns about if it qualifies that obligation to provide legal services like terminations of pregnancy,” she said.

She added that she would like clarity from Minister Donnelly on why the State cannot “do a compulsory purchase order to move the land into public ownership.”

Asked if she would continue to oppose the hospital if it were not moved to State land, she said: “We want to see this hospital built, but we want to see it built in the right way. We’ve spent years, unfortunately, in this country, decades, putting State money into religious owned infrastructure. We’ve seen the impact that’s had on women’s reproductive health care.

“Those of us who fought to see the repeal of the Eighth Amendment in 2018, we don’t want to see the sort of roll back we’re seeing, unfortunately, in the US, with the Supreme Court, apparently looking at overturning Roe V Wade. We have to move in the right direction on this.”

With reporting from Christina Finn, Rónán Duffy and Jane Moore

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    Mute Sandra Anderson
    Favourite Sandra Anderson
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:52 AM

    The President should be there in person, not a virtual speech,

    Condolences to all the families.

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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:45 AM

    @Sandra Anderson: He is at the National Holocaust Memorial. If there is any reason not to be at the Bloody Sunday commemoration, it is that.

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    Mute Jo H
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    Jan 30th 2022, 11:21 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: an absolutely important event, one also worthy of his attendance, but I have to agree with the OP that if a choice had to be made between the two, in this instance he should have attended the Bloody Sunday Memorial

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    Mute John Mc Auley
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    Jan 30th 2022, 12:29 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: No its Not.

    104
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    Mute XvSv
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    Jan 30th 2022, 12:57 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: I think the President was very badly advised on this.

    He should have been in Derry today to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday. It was one the most momentous events of 20th century on the Island Ireland. It was was a catalyst for everything that followed for the next 25 years.

    Of course he should also mark the Holocaust. But United Nations has designated 27th January (last Thursday) as international Holocaust Memorial Day.

    So his advisors / Government should have ensured both Memorial events didn’t clash.This was poor planning by the President’s office, as the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday is a very significant event, the Office of the President is meant to represent all Irish Citizens.

    This was an event the President should have attended.

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    Mute Ger Murphy
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    Jan 30th 2022, 1:13 PM

    @Sandra Anderson: perhaps for health reasons or covid risk etc he is not there. He is 80+ years of age. I’d doubt there is any intended snub on his part.

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    Mute Jo H
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    Jan 30th 2022, 1:30 PM

    @Ger Murphy: he is attending another event, albeit a very important one also, nothing to do with covid

    104
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    Mute OneClubSince1888
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    Jan 30th 2022, 4:04 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill:
    Shocking decision by our president.

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    Mute Aidan Haughey
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    Jan 30th 2022, 8:38 PM

    The reason would be that he should be at home mourning his own. 50 is an important number. Wrong decision

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    Mute Gerry Gleeson
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:27 AM

    They were murdered by the British Army.

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    Mute The Grand Nagus
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    Jan 30th 2022, 7:17 PM

    @Gerry Gleeson:
    Are you serious?

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    Mute Doreen Murphy
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:03 PM

    @The Grand Nagus: no one can deny that. Total murder and no one held to account.

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    Mute The Grand Nagus
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:33 PM

    @Doreen Murphy:
    Went over your head Doreen sorry

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    Mute Caoimhín Ó Seanáin
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    Jan 30th 2022, 2:07 PM

    I watched wreath-laying ceremony live on Bbc news channel. Every political party in Ireland – except Unionists, not surprisingly – was represented. While the British Broadcasting Corporation provided live coverage of this event, the Irish national broadcaster offered Mass (fair enough), aussie rules women’s football or Junior Bake-off from England. Says it all.

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    Mute doyle
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    Jan 30th 2022, 6:17 PM

    @Caoimhín Ó Seanáin: Doug beattie I know his been in the news for all the wrong reasons of late but his the only unionist leader to show compassion for this on his Twitter page

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    Mute Sue OB
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:27 PM

    @Caoimhín Ó Seanáin: i would say 90% of the british public have no idea about bl@@dy S@@day and the establishment are quite happy to keep it that way

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    Mute Chief Buck Cat
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    Jan 30th 2022, 1:33 PM

    Those creatures slithered out Palace Barracks outside Belfast 50 years ago, faces painted black and high-velocity hollow tip rounds in their guns. They drove 85 miles up the road, those that had not already murdered unarmed civilians in Belfast now had a chance to murder in Derry. They laughed in the faces of old men and children as they lay dying and shot more rounds into them. Then they slithered back to Palace Barracks buzzing and congratulating a job well done. British soldiers killing unarmed Irish civilians under order was British policy, it always was and could always be again. The only solution is unity.

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    Mute camio55
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    Jan 30th 2022, 11:42 AM

    This appalling event and the prolonged campaign for justice should be remembered with great sadness today. All of the innocent that lost their lives in this conflict must never be forgotten. Those that committed these acts should never delude themselves that they eclipsed the innocent in pursuit of a greater cause, it was simply murder.

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    Mute Declan Edward
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    Jan 30th 2022, 3:03 PM

    Absolutely shocked that Michael Higgins didn’t go to this.

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    Mute John O Mahony
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    Jan 30th 2022, 2:32 PM

    Bad mistake by Michael D no turning up, how can the families get justice if the president rates it as a second class event. Is this the same mehole who laid a wreath for Crown forces awhile ago. What a two-faced individual

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    Mute Daniel Roche
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    Jan 30th 2022, 2:46 PM

    @John O Mahony: If the taoiseach didn’t turn up,you be giving out,not defending wreath laying for British forces but you no reason to have a go at the leader of our government for doing the right thing today,pop away at the president.

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    Mute Madra
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:36 AM

    Mick D is a great man

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    Mute Richard Right
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:48 AM

    @Madra: A true socialist, and man of the common people.

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    Mute Frank Gooding
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:28 AM

    @Richard Right: wealthy socialist ok

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    Mute Cian
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:33 AM

    @Richard Right: surely satire?

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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:49 AM

    @Frank Gooding: What is the maximum wage a socialist can earn?

    69
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    Mute iohanx
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    Jan 30th 2022, 10:59 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill:

    Not more than the next person.

    43
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    Mute Bri Lyons
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    Jan 30th 2022, 11:01 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: don’t forget the tea parties

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    Mute Frank Gooding
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    Jan 30th 2022, 11:43 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: some socialists are more equal than others i guess.

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    Mute Donal Desmond
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    Jan 30th 2022, 1:22 PM

    @Madra: On his tour of South America Higgins spoke of social injustice, pity his party agreed and implemented every austerity measure that was inteterduced on the ordinary people who put their faith in them to curb FG. So called Labour became more Blueshirt than the Blueshirts. Their position in the polls reflect their betrayal of those who voted for them.

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    Mute Tom Molloy
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    Jan 30th 2022, 1:22 PM

    The UN should investigate the curriculum in British and Protestant north of Ireland schools to prevent the sectarian mindset of hate being created in their people.

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    Mute Mentis Green
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    Jan 30th 2022, 3:49 PM

    Time for Ireland to fully highlight the past atrocities of the british state & its army alongside their collusion, gerrymandering, institutionalised sectarianism and abuse of civil rights.
    Not to mention the almost unending occupation atrocities perpetrated in Ireland prior to partition.

    Their “british” colonial state evolved around being a genocidal, ethnic cleansing, sectarian occupying power, a parasitic organism.
    A state that has never really faced or reflected on these past atrocities anywhere which is why their media & political structures today are a cesspit of propaganda that have turned inwards without hosts to feed off.

    Thankfully Ireland today has considerable soft power helping us protect the rights of our citizens who live in the 6 counties and their rights under the GFA

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    Mute Finbar Delaney
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    Jan 30th 2022, 3:31 PM

    Any FG representatives attend?

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    Mute John Meade
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    Jan 31st 2022, 7:04 AM

    @Finbar Delaney: the article doesn’t list every politician that was there but it does have a tweet from Simon Coveney saying he is there

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Jan 30th 2022, 3:51 PM

    He laid a wealth for the soldiers that done it a thick

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    Mute The Grand Nagus
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    Jan 30th 2022, 7:23 PM

    What ever about the rights and wrongs of the British Army been based in the North.
    The Paras should never had a role same can be said for the Royal Marine Comandos and the black watch.

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    Mute Kevin50
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    Jan 30th 2022, 7:07 PM

    Spoke to my children in their 20s (I know not children) at meal time today none of them knew anything about Bloody Sunday nor the Troubles. The murders of civil rights protestors, this was not a Republican march, by the British army was as bad as anything in South Africa, India or the southern states of America. It spawned the growth of the provos who themselves were as evil as the British and declared war on this country, every politician, judge Garda, Soldier, prison officer was considered a legitimate target. No wonder SF, who are still the political wing of the provos, are so popular with the young and uninformed. Our teachers and the civil service have downgraded history as a subject, one wonders why. BTW it is not the Taoiseach because he himself is a published historian.

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    Mute Dorothy
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    Jan 30th 2022, 7:40 PM

    @Kevin50: Teachers have not downgraded history as a subject. The belief that “education” is purely utilitarian job training is at the heart of many so called reforms in education.

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    Mute Sandra Duffy
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:08 PM

    @Kevin50: Sinn Fein supported murders every bit as heinous.

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    Mute Sonic
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:09 PM

    @Kevin50: Sorry but this comment is nonsense. That your kids know nothing about bloody sunday is an indictment of you as a parent. We should make sure our children know and remember these atrocities else we risk history repeating. As for Micheal Martin being a published historian, please. He will forever be on the wrong side of history. Ever hear of collective cabinet responsibility? Ok now go back to 2008. QED.

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    Mute Liam MacSuibhne
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    Jan 30th 2022, 9:22 PM

    @Kevin50: Firstly, history has been upgraded to a CORE subject. Secondly, the fact that your children don’t know about it is an indictment of both their specific teachers and you, sorry to say. As for the rest of your comment, we’ll leave that for now.
    Try to stay on topic and stop referencing other actors in the conflict as some sort of latent excuse for what the British Army did that day and many other days. It was pure, unadulterated evil.

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    Mute Angela McCarthy
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    Jan 30th 2022, 11:04 PM

    @Liam MacSuibhne: when the conflict kicked off in 1969 and section 31 of the Broadcasting Act was introduced in 1971 by the southern state. It was clear those in power were desperate to stop the general population from joining the dots and linking what was happening in the north to what had happened in the south before partition (1916-22). So Irish history taught in the schools more are less ended with the civil rights movement, and didnt catch up again until 1994 when the peace process kicked in.

    so how could it be the responsibility of parents to teach their kids about Bloody Sunday and the conflict, when many of those young parents had been deprived of that history themselves.

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    Mute Anna Carr
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    Jan 30th 2022, 5:54 PM

    I thought it was a very respectful, solemn service. Everyone there behaved impeccably.

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    Mute Joan Grennan
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    Jan 31st 2022, 11:31 AM

    How well I remember it .50 years ago today I very young then and.very angry left my workplace and.joined the vast crowd heading to the British embassy .There we watched on as it was.set ablaze with the garda standing by and merely observing it all .The feeling was that these paras.were a shower of gurriers like the black and tans of a different era .The British government behind it were devious and dishonest ,gurriers too with posh accents .The.way the Widgery enquiry blackened the names of the murder victims was yet another outrage

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