@Colm OS: Then restrict travel to those that are vaccinated. And move any healthcare workers into roles where they don’t come into contact with a lot of people. And by your logic schools shouldn’t have returned because it’s literally just a bunch of unvaccinated people in the same building. And maybe you’d be right. But it does seem like a double standard to allow that and then fire others in similar close-group situations.

@Thomas Smyth: No your assigning arguments that I didnt make, If your job is a nurse, then by the very nature of your job you are dealing with people. I dont believe that people should be reassigned.
If your employer decides that a requirement of your employment is that you are vaccinated and someone chooses not too and loses theiir job, thats the employees decision
Doubt its legal here but obviously legal in NZ for the government to be announcing it

@Colm OS: Well then every unvaccinated waiter in the country should be fired too? Or Dunnes Stores cashier? Not all patients are anymore vulnerable than the average person. And not all nurses need to come into direct contact with patients to do a job. Where does it stop?

@Thomas Smyth: Where does your antivax nonsense stop?

@JusticeForJoe: Where does your vaccine taking bullying stop.

@Thomas Smyth: if a waiter or anyone fails to follow a reasonable request then it could be brought as far as firing. The thing is that you don’t believe that a requirement for a vaccination is reasonable, I do, don’t think we’ll agree
Not all patients are more vulnerable, just the majority of them
Out of interest, explain a situation where a nurse doesn’t have to come into contact with a patient and still be doing the job they were employed to do

@JusticeForJoe: Well are they all anti-vax, or do they just object to personally taking these vaccines? If they didn’t trust medical science to the point they were incompetent and couldn’t do their job then I’d agree. But if they’re performing their jobs well, are hygienic, good with patients and don’t relay any misinformation then your point doesn’t stand. And my point about it being a pandemic still stands. Firing them should be the last resort, not the opening salvo.

@Thomas Smyth: That seems like a strange question. Are you saying anti-vax and just objecting to personally taking the most important vaccine of our lifetimes are not the same thing?

@Thomas Smyth: his point most certainly does stand…please outline a genuine reason (other than a particular health issue) why any educated person working in healthcare wouldn’t take “these vaccines”?
There are none, because medical science has proven they are safe and effective. Don’t say side effects because anyone working in healthcare knows that all medicines have side effects. It’s a nonsense and it should be put up to the touchy feely brigade who just don’t feel right about taking the vaccine that it’s totally their call…they just can’t work in their current positions.

@JusticeForJoe: Yes. There are people who have taken vaccines all their lives who questioned the speed at which these ones were developed and the new technology being used. I don’t agree with them and got a double dose of the Pfizer myself.

But Norway, Sweden and Finland just paused use of the Moderna vaccine. Maybe that’s due to an abundance of caution. But what do you call someone who’ll readily take a flu shot tomorrow but have concerns over these vaccines when they see headlines like that? Are they anti-vax? There’s a distinction there surely.

@Damo: One entirely genuine and valid reason would be a previous infection, of which most healthcare workers have had one. This mast hysteria of vaxx or you’re a menace to society is really wearing thin… Not least because it’s fundamentally untrue, and anyone who cared to look at the figures would understand that. Fully vaccinated here.

@Thomas Smyth: Not buying that. We’re way past “questioning the speed” now. That’s all been put to bed if you actually read about the vaccine development that was built upon for this. Some lad calling himself an independent thinker who’s covering the bases all the world’s leading epidemiologist obviously missed, is more likely just afraid of needles.

@Thomas Smyth: I think everyone would agree we have more than enough support staff!

@JusticeForJoe: They are not the same thing at all.

@Damo: At this moment in time the full side effects of these vaccines are not known. So saying all meds have side effect is moot. Irrespective of what you think its still up to each individual to make their own decision. Thankfully that’s still everybody’s right.

@Franny Ando: I violently dispute that.

@JusticeForJoe: Neither should people who constantly tell others what they should do.

@JusticeForJoe: I’m sure you would. You are no different then the anti-vaxxers who harangue and abuse others.

@Franny Ando: Listen to yourself… “….constantly tell others what they should do” “…harangue and abuse others”. That’s a lot of hyperbole for someone who maintains I’m not even talking about them.

@Franny Ando: Yep, they are called BULLIES. Lots of them on here with nothing else of importance in their sad little lives except Covid.
Government and mainstream media have done a great job on them. Scared of their own shadows half of them, the other half are pious, pontificating, sanctimonious bullies.
Fully vaxed by the way, just sickened by the venemous attitudes of some on here who need to take a strong hard look at themselves. It’s the likes of these attitudes that have many a family broken and divided in Ireland and its a pure shame, life is not all about Covid. Move on.

@Niamh Rochford: Fully agree Niamh. Its gone too far we have become a divided society sadly.

@JusticeForJoe: It’s bizarre that you think that people can’t be professional. People have all sorts of crazy ideas, but the vast majority of teachers know to stick to the curriculum and not go on a rant about alien abductions, the Rothschilds controlling the banking system or the benefits of a keto diet to a bunch of 10 year olds in the middle of maths class. If they do then you have a point. But until then there’s literally no problem and you’d be firing them based solely on the thoughts in their head!

@Thomas Smyth: Good lord, man. I’m not talking about alien abduction stories. I’m talking about risking people’s lives and prolonging a terrible pandemic, and the vigour with which you’re defending the anti-vaxxers here is such that I highly doubt your story that you’re double-jabbed yourself.

@JusticeForJoe: You’re a very literal person aren’t you. You do understand that I’m specifically talking here about punishing people for what they think and not what they do in the classroom. And am using absurd examples to emphasise the problem with what you’re talking about in (hopefully) a funny way. This post specifically relates to misinformation in the classroom, not the harm of passing on a potentially lethal virus.

If your idea of punishing people for being conspiracy theorists in their personal lives caught on it would be no exaggeration to say that it would represent a grave threat to our free and open society. In North Korea it would be a conspiracy theory that Kim Jong Un is actually just a weak leader on the global stage and is mostly seen as a joke.

Would an anti-vaxer say that the development of COVID-19 vaccines in such a short period of time is one of the greatest scientific achievements of mankind. It’s up there with the moon landings and the microprocessor. And everyone who can take the vaccine should take the vaccine.

@Thomas Smyth: Everyone who doesn’t conform to what’s being put out on the Six One is labelled as anti-vax. I remember being opposed to vaccine passports for dining indoors and just being labelled anti-vax. There’s no winning with these people. They believe unvaccinated people should be in jail or dead.

@Tomo: Personally, I believe people who can’t be vaccinated will usually have plenty of reason to stay at home or at least out of crowds. I believe that who WON’T be vaccinated should be decent and stay out of crowds of their own volition.
Sadly, they constantly demonstrate that they can’t be trusted to do that.
For the greater good, and in the interests of fairness, I believe the consequences of their choices should be born by them alone and not by others who took the precautions they were asked to, and I believe those who make the decision not to be vaccinated should not be free to affect/infect others, who strongly disagree with their decision.
What do you suggest?

@Thomas Smyth: Then they’re not exactly good at their job if they have an objection to (and subsequently refuse to take) the vaccine. They may be physically well capable of doing the job, but they cannot then go around praising the vaccine and its effectiveness while holding a personal view that it’s a bad idea. That’s being very fake not doing a good job.

@Pat Doran: And most likely they will not praise the vaccine unless a supervisor is looking over their shoulder. Dangerous stuff in all honesty.

@Pat Doran: There’s a different between not taking it for personal reasons but giving sound medical advice based on our current understanding if asked and going around singing its praises. Regardless, there are plenty of roles in the health service where you don’t give out medical advice or come into contact with vulnerable patients. Should these also be fired even if they’re good at what they do?

@Pat Doran: Hang on there Pat, I work in he tech industry too and I would never, ever fully trust a computer, having worked in that sector for long to enough to know that its not even always the computer’s fault that they cannot be trusted. And that lesson was learned after a relatively short time with computers.

@Pat Doran: I’d be equally concerned about someone working in technology industry who actually harbours a blind trust in computers. In fact I’d say more concerned.
Think you should question your career choice.

@Colm O’ Shea: How are they at risk to their patients Thomas if their patients are vaccinated?
Weather vaccinated or unvaccinated you can still catch and spread. Whole point behind the vaccine is to protect the person who has it and keep hospital numbers down.
Overwhelming majority of people who get covid are fine, it is no worse than a cold for most, a bad hangover for some and no symptoms at all for quite a lot.

@Gavin Linden: Completely missing the point. It’s not blind trust or blind faith. It’s trusting that when the information is correct, it’s correct. When there is some ambiguity, it can be tracked down to determine where it originates from and make the necessary adjustments/investigations to get correct information.

@Tom Hogarty: Just disproving your own point, Tom. When you know it’s not the computer’s fault, you can determine where the problem originated or do some investigation to figure that out. It’s 1s and 0s with computers. They’re either right or they’re wrong. And when they’re wrong, it’s almost always due to some external factor being an undue influence ion it. And to bring it round to the topic at hand…. That undue influence in the case of vaccinations would be anti-vax conspiracy.

@Thomas Smyth: I’m thinking of that pharmacist in Wisconsin who was arrested for deliberately leaving 500 doses out of the fridge hoping they would be spoiled. He certainly didn’t make any effort to do no harm.

@Gary O Sullivan: Tell us more about this worldwide regime, Gary

@Gary O Sullivan: Dear god.

@Jay: Take a look back at how it was before the vaccine arrived. Spiralling death counts worldwide and lockdowns galore. No thanks.

@Karl: So you think that in the unlikely event that every medical worker in NZ refused the vaccine that the NZ gov would effectively shut down their health service in the middle of a pandemic by firing the lot of them? They’d obviously acquiesce and backtrack. It’s not going to happen though but simply saying it’s in the article is a bit silly.

@Thomas Smyth: obviously that scenario is not possible as it’s taken for granted that the majority of healthcare workers are already vaccinated so it only applies to those small numbers who have ignored the science and continue to refuse to get the jab .. Jays point was the silly one in the extreme .

@Karl: ,And then what be left without hospital staff and teachers?? Like they will follow through if nothing else civil liberties group would be up in arms. And rightly so.

@Franny Ando: Thankfully most people generally totally disregard “civil liberties groups” and get on with living their lives!!!

@Jay: everyone won’t though, as proven in Ireland

@JedBartlett: This is such a ignorant comment of all obese people. What do you suggest to people who drink/smoke/take drugs? What about people who have to take steroids? I know an adopted girl who has struggled all her life with weight, not down to adopted family having bad eating habits etc. She met her birth mother and she was also obese even though she didnt grow up with her. This is down to genetics

@JedBartlett: So because not everyone is as perfect as you then no measures should be put in place to protect them.
While obesity is a aggravating factor, so is old age. Should we just ignore everyone who doesn’t live up to your ideals of virtue?

@JedBartlett: Obesity isn’t contagious, back to bed Jed.

@JedBartlett: forced gym membership?? Lol do u really need to be in a gym to be healthy? I don’t know the actual figures but I’d be pretty sure a brisk walk in nature would be much more beneficial

@JedBartlett: a mini Hitler in the making.

@Brian O’Grady: To you Brian, and all the above commenters who are angry about my comment, please note that it was meant completely tongue in cheek. My point is that mandating vaccines is the first step in mandating particular BMI, mandating alcohol limits etc. Its the first step in a slippery slope.

My only issue with overweight people is those are are barking for mandating vaccines should maybe take some measures to lose some weight first and help out in that way.

@Rebecca BarrettNp: Please read my comment again and point out to me where o said obesity was contagious. I’ll wait.

Read it slowly this time or ask an adult for help.

@Pat Doran: Jed has a LOT of problems.

@JusticeForJoe: Bully’s like yourself being just one of them. By the way, did you get “the vaccine” yet? Your quotes, not mine.

@JedBartlett: That’s the second or third time you’ve made that joke, like you think it’s a win for you. To refer to the group of vaccines currently available as ‘the vaccine’ is linguistically sound but keep focussing on that if it’s the best you can do.

@JedBartlett: Plurals in English change a ‘y’ to an ‘ie’ though. You meant ‘bullies’.
But please keep teaching me, sir.

@JusticeForJoe: Joe, just take the vaccine. Trust it. It works.

@JedBartlett: Ok, thanks Jed.

@JedBartlett: poor Jed still picking fights and losing…
… except in his own head where he’s the top man.

@JedBartlett: you are comparing a highly infectious novel virus to a chronic condition which is not contagious and has many psychological and physiological complex causes. No one would argue that obesity is not a major problem, but thankfully you won’t catch it by standing near someone for 10 minutes in a shop

@James Reardon: in Canada they’re already implementing the same as NZ. A lot of federal employees may be sacked soon, healthcare, civil servants, bus/train drivers.
Only 2 medical exemptions for not getting fully vaxxed: 1) Severe adverse reaction to 1st shot or 2) allergic to an ingredient in the vaccines. Very few will fall under either of these categories but they will be able to keep their jobs

@James Reardon: To be honest I’d listen to the cautionary advice and opt to go ahead anyway. Better to get a known side effect over with, tough it out, than to let Covid do its worst. Especially if I was working with sick people.

@Chris Gaffney: It can still be contracted and passed on by the vaccinated. There are also fully vaccinated people in hospital and I.C.U.

@Chris Gaffney: Yes, Covid is contagious but obesity still puts enormous pressure on the healthcare system. Be responsible and lose some weight.

As an aside, I would love to see 100% of the population vaccinated. It would then be very interesting to see who you and your like would turn on when it transpires there will be people in icu with Covid. You’ll probably turn back again and finger point at those attending parties, or students, or people attending sporting event or basically anyone you deem not to be keeping YOU safe. Because let’s face it, you Covid zealots are just selfish really. Disguising your own self interests as concern for others.

@JedBartlett: Rhubarb!!

@Franny Ando: You should read up on the scientists and HSE advisors who would not agree with you…..but you are probably more intelligent than them!!

@Chris Gaffney: Is there anything in my comment regarding vaccinated people that is incorrect.

@Franny Ando: Yes…it can be passed on by the vaccinated but it is more likely to be passed on by the unvaccinated who stand a much bigger chance of being infected if exposed. Is that simple enough for you??? Thats what the experts say but I bet you know more than they do??

@Chris Gaffney: don’t waste your time. He just keeps banging the same drum. His critical thought process is impaired in some way.
No normal person in possession of the facts or with eyes open to the world around them could come to the conclusion that because vaccinated people can contract and spread covid that it’s equivalent to being unvaccinated.

@Chris Gaffney: In other words my comment is 100% correct. The experts quite clearly state fully vaccinated people can contract covid and pass it on to others. Now again what is it about my comment that is incorrect.

@Damo: “She” posted a factually correct comment if you know otherwise please enlighten me. I will be waiting, with baited breath, for your unimpaired critically thought out response.

@Franny Ando: Go away. Waste of good energy talking to you as you are too clever for us mere mortals. But this is a serious issue!

@Chris Gaffney: Just do the right thing and apologise. You know right well my comment was correct. Vaccinated people can still contract covid and can still pass it on. Your waffling and digging an even bigger hole for yourself is getting embarrassing.

@Franny Ando: implying that vaccines don’t work because there are vaccinated people in ICU is laughable and only serves to advertise your lack of intelligence. The country is opened and hospitals are coping only because vaccines work…you should get one.

@Damo: Show me where I said vaccines don’t work. Show me where I said I was unvaccinated. My comment is factually correct there was no implication otherwise. So like Chris stop embarrassing yourself.

@Franny Ando: you’re gas…

@Benny Dowling: -If you think you are at risk”. This is not like choosing a hairdo!!!! This is a serious life threatening disease and the advice of experts should be all that guides sensible peoples actions.. not what they “think”!!!