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A NIGHTLIFE INDUSTRY campaign group has said the legislation underway to allow nightclubs to open until later hours will bring “new opportunities” to the sector as some Fine Gael TDs try to pressure new leader Simon Harris to abandon the plan.
Backbench TDs Michael Ring and Charlie Flanagan have called on the new leader of their party to pull its policies back towards what they call its “core values”, including by discarding the proposed late-night licensing laws that have been in development over the last few years.
Such a move would be in opposition to calls from the sector to allow venues to open later to bring rules closer in line with other European countries.
The General Scheme of the Sale of Alcohol Bill was published in 2022 following a public consultation. It was scrutinised by the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, which said the legislation would help to revitalise the night-time economy in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic.
The government had previously promised the reform would come into effect by last summer.
However, the summer came and went without the new law – and it now appears to be up in the air whether it will move through the Dáil in time for this summer either.
Speaking to RTÉ Radio One’s This Week programme on Sunday, Ring said: “Fine Gael has to go back to its core values. Fine Gael has, in my opinion, been too left for too long. We’re not a left party, we’re a centre party, and I think that Fine Gael has to move back into the centre again and more to the right.”
He identified several areas that he said the party should focus on, including “supporting small businesses”.
However, he also said that he wants to get rid of “this daft idea of opening pubs all night” and said the party should “forget about a lot of these social issues that we’ve been raising over the last number of years, annoying people and upsetting people”.
Similarly, on Saturday, former Fine Gael Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan tweeted that the party’s values do not include “all-night drinking”.
Sunil Sharpe of Give Us The Night, a volunteer group of professionals campaigning for changes in Irish nightlife, has said that allowing later opening times will bring new opportunities for performers.
He also challenged commentary about pubs opening all night, saying that the legislation means nightclubs would be allowed to serve alcohol until 5am but pubs would continue to close much earlier than that.
For pubs, the legislation means they would be allowed to open until 12.30am seven nights a week. Currently, they can ordinarily open until 11.30pm Monday to Thursday, 12.30am Friday and Saturday, and 11pm on Sundays.
A late bar permit under the new legislation would give permission for opening hours to extend to 2.30am, the same time currently allowed under the existing rules.
“Pubs will not be serving all night,” Sharpe said, adding that Ireland’s 89 nightclubs will be permitted to serve until 5am, with dancing allowed up to 6am.
“This isn’t even in line with the European average, but it’s an improvement at least,” Sharpe said, speaking to The Journal.
“The majority won’t open this late or have the business or staff needed to open late, but operators would like the option and to see where the future brings them. Over time, they will find their sweet spot,” he said.
“If you’re a performer or promoter especially, you naturally want and expect later times too.
“We shouldn’t underestimate the amount of new opportunities this can bring to those trying to forge a career in the sector, as well as the new experiences that those in Ireland haven’t been legally allowed to have up to now but which they have access to on a plane every weekend”.
‘We need some flexibility’
The piece of legislation is one of many that Simon Harris is inheriting as he takes over the leadership of Fine Gael following Leo Varadkar’s resignation.
Harris, the only person to stand forward for the role, was officially announced as the party’s new leader on Sunday.
He previously expressed in early 2020 that Ireland’s licensing laws are “very restrictive”, particularly when comparing the situation in Dublin to that of other European capitals, but added that he thought any changes would “need to be considered very, very carefully”.
Speaking to The Journal, Sharpe said that the night-time economy is still working through a challenging post-pandemic period with fewer customers than in previous years. “Certain big nights of the year will do well, but it’s super tough the rest of time, and that’s where we especially need some flexibility.”
He said that given that Cabinet ministers, including Simon Harris, have already approved the draft licensing bill, “any suggestion or notion of Fine Gael dropping the bill now is mad talk”.
He pointed to the Programme for Government, which references modernising licensing laws, and said that cannot be binned now simply because a few TDs would like it to be.
Sharpe cautioned that “misleading our industry, community and the wider public who bought into pre-election promises of reform would be a huge mistake for Fine Gael”.
“You can’t seriously say that you care about the night-time economy and then do that. All things said, I feel that they can get it right and quell the dissenting voices if they simply assure the public that they have resources in place, particularly with policing,” he said.
Sharpe said that extended opening hours should help to alleviate the demand on transport services that currently occurs when venues close around the same time as each other.
“I’d like to think that Simon Harris can unify everyone on this, and that we’ll see these laws enacted by the summer and in time for annual licensing renewals in September.”
In a statement to The Journal, the Department of Justice said that Minister Helen McEntee hopes to bring the relevant legislation to the Dáil “in the coming months”.
“Whilst scheduling is a matter for the Oireachtas, it is hoped that the Bill will be enacted this year,” the department said.
It said the proposed legislation “endeavours to strike a balance between maintaining strict controls and safeguards in relation to the sale of alcohol, while providing support to those involved in our night time economy”.
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I’d suppose Mr Ring & Flanagan will be looking for the holy hour to return as well.. Move the country forward not backwards.
@Patrick Quinn: The holy hour was heaven. Getting locked in, just you, maybe 3 others (max) the barman and the Guinness tap. Perfect.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: My brothers funeral, the locked the entire funeral party in and served us. Everyone else went up the road across the city line.
The bars and nightclubs being allowed to stay open doesn’t necessarily mean they will stay open all night every night. In continental Europe, premises stay open or close depending on the demand on a given night. Very few people are going stay drinking in a premises all night every night, with limited exceptions.
Talking of limited exceptions….
There is a very simple way to deter the people engaging in the ongoing anti-immigrant protests from turning up at the former crown paints factory, just advertise available job vacancies in the factory..
@Dvsespaña: there’s no-one anti working immigrants in Ireland.
@Finn Barr: That’s not entirely true, there is a section of Irish society that is begrudgingly anti all foreigners, unfortunately many people that cannot distinguish between foreign nationals that have the legal right to live and work here and illegal immigrants.
On numerous occasions, I have heard people complaining about asylum seeking illegal immigrants getting council houses and when I asked where the illegal immigrants were from, the people in question told me Poland..
My point was that the majority of those people that have become personally invested in anti foreigner protests, wouldnt work on batteries and their primary concern is that their access to free stuff might be impacted by an increased population. People that are getting up to go to work are not terrorising foreigners.
@Dvsespaña: I’m glad you made the distinction between the different cohorts of migrants.
There’s no-one protesting outside hospitals or building sites where a large % of the workers are productive migrants and glad we are to have them
@Finn Barr: Unfortunately as I said, many of the protestors don’t make any such distinctions, its just that asylum seekers and refugees are an easier target, given that they are placed in group accommodation, not personally in control of their own situation and therefore vunerable.
The human condition is curious, some Irish people are able to rationalise their own terrorising of displaced refugees and victims of globalist actions in numerous places throughout the Middle East, North Africa and elsewhere, when those people are arriving in Ireland, while simultaneously condeming very similar actions when they are being perpetrated by the IDF in Gaza…
@Dvsespaña: Globalist actions?
More like primitive tribal warfare between different ethnic and religious groups. Throw in, out of control population increases and access to modern weapons, and certain groups determination to spread the religion of peace at the point of AK47s as well as looting rights for natural resources.
@Finn Barr: I fully agree, there was no protests over the past 20 years while East Europeans came to Ireland in large numbers. That’s because the vast majority came to work here and not live off Irish taxpayers. (There is still too many that immigrated here for the welfare benifits – as if we don’t have enough of our own).
However, at a time when a whole generation of Irish people cannot afford or get houses, why should the Irish state be handing out houses to any immigrants?
@Thomas Sheridan: Yes, globalist actions. The Middle East, North Africa and Asia all suffered horrendous abuses under colonialism, then they gained independence.
But since then, the former colonial powers and the current super powers have shafted them economically and exploited them for their own ends.
The oil rich countries that have played along with the USA have prospered beneath that globalist yolk, but the ones that haven’t have been literally decimated and pushed into the anarchy you mention, all allegedly in the name of freedom…
The EU is party to the ongoing economic and physical destruction of these countries too and the globalist propaganda machine convinces people with short attention spans that everything is black and white and they are the heroes no matter what they do.
@Dvsespaña: Yes western countries and companies have used some African, Middle Eastern etc countries for their own benefit however these days it’s mainly China, Iran and Russia doing the exploiting and then flooding Europe with immigrants, who, becuase of our social democracies, are having to pay for all these rather than let them starve (like what would happen to them in Russia, Iran etc).
I suppose the Dail Bar will be open 24/7.
Old fogies like Flanagan and Ring need to crawl back under their respective rocks.
@Ian: looks like the proposed anti-free-speech legislation is DOA.
Ah well, we’ll try and soldier on without it, I suppose
@Ian: Great to see the eloquent and informed comments from our young, educated elites in society. It’s especially gratifying to see how Mr Rings clever comments of “too woke too long” about FG have been deconstructed and shown to be wrong. All that free education didn’t go to waste.
Given the level of drug and drink driving on the roads, I’d say the night time economy will be a nightmare.
I want to buy over-priced drinks and not be able to get home by taxi or public transport (let alone safely) when I want!
@Jack Hayes: Isn’t choice wonderful.
@Jack Hayes:
I used to work as a taxi driver many years ago, and the turfing out of crowds of drunken people from nightclubs at 2am used to be a nightmare.
From stumbling out in front of moving traffic, fighting on the street, fighting over taxis not to mention hogging the emergency department in the local hospital.
I think that extending the nightclub hours might be a good idea all round. People will only stay out if they have the money to do so and there will be less on the streets at the one time. I imagine from a policing point of view, it might be better too. You will always have the idiots who drink themselves stupid and go looking for trouble, the time of night is not going to make much difference to them.
Here comes the anti woke backlash because the referendum didn’t pass. Politicians will jump on any bandwagon. Typical gombeens deciding that if they don’t want to stay out late then no one else should. Goodbye FG!
@Derek Moran: is it woke to have bars open a bit later?
@eoin fitzpatrick: I don’t think anyone with a “woke” problem knows what Woke means.
@eoin fitzpatrick: Good point. I guess it depends on what’s being served. Is Guinness plant-based?
It will be “kick the can down the road” like everything else with this government
They should scrap the current plan as it’s rubbish… Regular bars will still have to close early… Night clubs will be given Carte blanche.. The regular bars should be given to operate up to 2.30 or 3 am… Let Clubs stay open till 5 or 6 there after.. This wheel has already been invented, why do irish politians always feel the need to put an angle on the wheel… Ffs
@Jon Doesn’t: FGFFGP
@Willie Marty: don’t be a pea brain about it… Grow 2 f up.
This is the beginning of the preordained divorce.
@Fionn Bohane: I’ve a funny feeling things will work out ok for ffg though.
Yes, something proven to work quite well in Europe somehow cannot work well here for all the stupid, tired reasons given. Just get this thing passed and let the results speak for themselves. I cannot understand any kind of mentality that says ‘well I don’t go to nightclubs anymore, so what’s it go to do with me?’. Ireland is enough of a nanny state already, let’s move in the right direction on this at least
@James McSherry: Where does it work so well? It is in place but they all have the same problems just later in the morning!
Backbenchers led by good old Leo …I suppose
“cOrE VaLuEs”
The planned extension of the licensing laws is ludicrous. It will foster absenteeism, and drink/drug driving. What is it going to achieve? No one is going to spend more money! Longer hours for staff, more overheads for clubs, taxis stretched beyond all limits. Let’s ban work totally and let’s party 24/7!!!
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: Longer paid hours for staff, don’t you mean.
And overheads wont increase. Overheads are fixed costs, more or less.
This is the equivalent of a factory being able to made use of its expensive plant, equipment and premises over 16 or 24 hours instead of just 8 hours.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Longer hours mean more staff, more staff means more wages, longer hours means more power used for heating and lighting….
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: Longer hours means more revenue per day, reducing the cost of property (rent or mortgage), reducing the cost of all equipment per unit of revenue.
Longer hours do not necessarily mean more staff.
If a nighrclub opened at 11pm, for instance, and closed at 2.30am, and the staff were there from 10pm to 3.30am then the staff would be working 5.5 hours.
Extending that would not necessarily require more staff.
The number of managerial and other support staff would also remain the same.
In short, the fixed costs of the business would remain largely the same, while revenue would be expected to increase.
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: Why would you get so worked up about it? If noone spends more money, the bars and clubs won’t open later. They are not being forced to. It’s giving freedom of choice, to the business community, and to the socialising public. It won’t foster drink/drug driving anymore than there currently is (why would it?) If it’s not for you, don’t indulge. But don’t try and stop it for others.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Ok well, longer hours doesn’t necessarily mean more revenue, and doesn’t reduce property costs at all how could it? People have X amount to disposable income and that’s it! But it does mean more pay to staff as they work longer hours, more outlay on heat and lighting.
@Niall Concannon: It is my opinion and I am free to voice it. I am not trying to stop it . But my because my opinion is different to yours I am wrong! So are you the yardstick on which correct decisions are made?
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: Well, guess what?
The business owner will get to make those decisions, wont they?
They will decide whether it makes business sense to open later.
Any change in the law will not force them to open later, merely allow them to do so if it makes business sense.
Right?
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Reading between your lines, you seem to be of the opinion that it will make business sense…….. Well I have been in that business and it doesn’t!!
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Except what happens is that people leave it later to go out. As happened everywhere else.
You can drink yourself stupid until 6am but anyone that wants to have a bottle of wine at home has to pay €8 plus for it.
Typical Ireland.
@Dave S: publicans not selling you the wine, but many tds are publicans, and they never have enough, with the unhealthy attitude to drink here in this country, people going out to get wasted, and coked up on a regular basis, it beggars belief the logic, to extend opening hours, when many pubs close early nor not open at all around the country.
Maybe if they cleaned up the street drinking, in town first, so bars happy to serve you, but take it outside, if any trouble, bars hands are clean.
@Dave S: I used to use Aldi €4 red wine for cooking. It made a huge difference to (some) dishes.
Can’t do that anymore.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: you really can’t afford to spend €7.10 on a bottle to put an occasion glass in a cooking dish? That approx €3 a month will push you over the edge?
@Soundy Sound: No.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: No, to your 1st question.
Yes, to your 2nd.
I try to budget around €1 a meal.
Or did, before the recent inflation spike.
A €4 bottle of wine, twice a year, would allow me to do some batch cooking. A batch of lasagnes, and a batch of something else – maybe a stew. Which could then be refrigerated or frozen.
Doing it that way might push my budget per meal over by a few cents, but I could make up for it by scrimping somewhat beforehand.
And, golly, did it make a difference. A dozen or two very tasty meals to counter the blandness and monotony of what I normally have.
Pubs/Bars/Nightclubs 2:30am is more than enough
@Mojo: Just beause it’s enough for you doesn’t mean the same for everyone.
@Rob Cahill: a lot of staff won’t want to work late hours & unless there are a lot more all night taxis how do they get home enough people have been killed walking on the roads
Given the already existing level of Anti-social behaviour that has become prevalent in Ireland, introducing an almost round the clock drinking culture is hardly going to improve things. I love a few drinks as much as anybody, and if I want to socialise for longer, I can go out earlier, to extend it. This is the thin edge of the wedge to future introduction of 24 hour pubs/venues, like in the U.S.
I have been around this beautiful little island for a bit and the only thing that’s kept me alive is the fact I have always known there is multiple versions of living here ,
Only in Ireland, could you have a govt. that, on one hand talks about the problem we have with consumption of alcohol, and the cost to the exchequer that entails, and on the other hand, wants to give us more time to consume, even more alcohol. The Gardai, who are about to finish a night’s work, will love this. They will be lucky to get to bed before 9.00am.
I was reading somewhere that club owners would like the option to open later but probably only use it a few times a Yr, when the demand would be there. At least they would have that option though.
Hope Simon Harris doesn’t pass this crazy late hours for pubs and clubs late opening, enough crime and fights on going in the city centre.
Our city is being ruined by fuelled alcohol yobs
@Muriel Ryan: yeah we will all be forced to stay in the night club all night. Leading to more anti social behaviour, people shouldn’t be enjoying themselves if I don’t approve of it.
It ridiculous there even a need for a license and even opening times. If they worried about noise or disturbances this already happens. It be better to use public order laws and community service to keep people in ck.
Imagine if food take away and delivery services couldn’t open between 04:30 pm and 09:00 pm to stop people eating unhealthy dinners.
Our so called democracy comes with to many conditions that only make us coerced
sl aves.
My gawd the comments. As bad as you’d expect…actually they’re even worse.
Firstly there’s the ‘I don’t go out anymore or understand anything about music culture so I don’t want other people having fun at a late hour’ lot. The jaded demonise and prohibit schtick. Give me strength!
Then we have the tired disproven tropes of violence and anti-social behaviour. Just because you read about violence on the news does not mean there is a correlation between this and the music scene. These people clearly don’t realise that not every club will be granted a license and the type of venues and nights that are likely to be granted one have a very specific type of crowd. For the most part you will be talking about harmless music obsessives. It will mostly be from underground and alternative scenes covering techno, house, dnb, electronic, metal, goth, gay, indie, punk and trad cultures and subcultures. Are these the kind of crowds out beating people up and being anti-social? Quick answer for the slow learners: NO!
It’s completely depressing to see people ready to stick the boot in on anyone who doesn’t conform to an absolutely rigid idea of what socialising and culture in Ireland should look like, according to their insanely old fashioned and narrow understanding of what it means and entails.
It’s deeply insulting to us as a people too. It’s fine for the mainland Europeans but we can’t be trusted because we are a lesser and innately immoral species. The hangover from Catholic Ireland is much longer than any that might be experienced from later opening hours.
@SerotoninWars: absolutely, as you acknowledge its also me féinism that keeps Ireland being held back. it’s always been that way
@Sean oSuilleabhain: It’s just ridiculous Sean. The lack of imagination on its own. The inability to appreciate that there’s whole other world outside of 9-5 and bed by 12, with people working in so many different sectors, on top of the fact that people should have a right to a night life if they want one. Vibrant cities with lots to offer everyone are important. Mé Féinism is right.
There’s hardly any night clubs let in the country anyways
I’m confident fine Gael backbenchers realise the need to keep Ireland regressive and devoid of the risk to do anything different to combat many issues, such as this. If in doubt always go with the decision that worst represents our society & there’ll be plenty worse anti social behaviour spilling out on our streets in years to come with such early closing times.
Purely based on the people who are “agin” it I’m all for it.
Ban the banners!
We still have nightclubs?
Works in Europe because of their culture around alcohol. Will lead to further pressure on A & E’s, no taxis as working late is too dangerous, more pressure on Gardai & Emergency Services, more drinking & driving when people can’t get taxis & worst of all more domestic violence & children put at risk from those who abuse alcohol. Anyone who has seen Alcohol abuse knows how it decimates families. All for anyone having a few pints, but this is another shoot show by Helen Mc Entee.
Ah back to the Ireland of De Valera and Archbishop McQuade. That was some hatchet job done on RTE the other night basically showing people emerging out onto harcourt street at the end of the night then another shot of someone somewhere else looking a bit wobbly on their feet. Nothing out of the way actually happening. An attempt at sensationalism. Then a woman who must have been about 55 talking about how she couldn’t understand why people would want places open at that hour and that she wouldn’t want to be there at that time. Well it’s not exactly aimed at her is it? And nobody is forcing you. It’s just letting a handful of places open a couple of hours later in line with the rest of the whole of Europe. Nightlife in this country is pathetic. It’s happened many times where I have been talking to people from other countries who found it hard to believe that everything was finishing up at basically 02:30. You also won’t have everyone spilling out onto the street at the exact same time. There really are some numpties in this country.
Having worked in the industry, I feel that extending the hours is not a good idea at all. People will abuse it as they do already and it will mean people go out later than they do now as happened then the pub hours increased.
Having the opportunity to increase the hours open, like the old bar extension is one idea that might work.
For sports events around the world, Superbowl Party’s for example. Boxing or World Cups of various sports.
@Gary Kearney: What? It is the norm in practically every other country. Just let people do what they want to do. It will literally be a handful of pubs and clubs opening a couple of hours later than they currently do. It’s like the film footloose at this stage.
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