I can totally see your point of view Andy. There’s definitely a question mark over whether the PFAI should be involving itself. However, David’s comment went well beyond that, so I objected to it.

Anne your comments are very annoying to read. All you want is your own opinion accepted whilst I do agree with some of what you say not all of it is as extreme as you make it out to be and you should respect other people’s opinion instead of attacking them straight away as they are entitled to it even though it may not be in agreement with what you opine.

I cant comment on this until ive read the facts of the case. Just because he was convicted does not necessarily mean he is guilty, there has been many cases and one in the US recently where a man has been in jail the last 28 years for a murder he did not commit. So yes the law can be wrong and can be influenced by public opinion.

No you can’t Peter as I was replying directly to Darren who said ” , how does anyone know he was guilty. Didn’t the bird say she was too drunk & couldn’t remember the night the hairy ape allegedly happened. Typical spoofing woman.”

calling the victim a typical spoofing woman and saying she was too drunk is blaming.

Given that the conviction was on the basis that she was too drunk to consent I think its fairly clear it was a matter of consent. Maybe you need to do research.

Zoe – stop perpetuating this lie, I have provided you with links of reporting by the Irish media. Now please go away and stop trying to derail every other thread with your lies.

So you are saying the Westminster story is all lies, Paul?

Considering that this is such as massive story, probably the biggest political scandal in British history – it is strange how little the Irish media have covered it.
Would you prefer to see it not covered or reported upon?

I’m sorry Marc if you find my comments annoying. I just found it very annoying to hear someone call this woman a ‘typical spoofing woman’ that to me is not an opinion that deserves respect.

There is no evidence to suggest that she was too drunk to consent. I have seen friends(male and female) walking around and talking for hours while drunk and then not remember anything the next day.

That is the issue with this case because it opens a Pandoras box do men ie don’t sleep with any woman who seems even slightly drunk. Do you not agree?

Zoe – no, you are telling lies and persistently. The story is a big story and is being reported on by the Irish media. I have provided you with links previously, but you still persist in the lies.

Zoe , why don’t you email the journal and ask them yourself.

I don’t think it would do any good Joan. We shouldn’t have to be contacting a news website, asking them to report the news fairly and impartially.
That should be a given, in their job.

Zoe , I agree but its not really our job to be telling others how to do their job , there is the option to send them a news tip and its up to them if they want to use it .

I suppose if that rent-a-gob Katie Hopkins can voice an opinion on it, why not the PFAI.

Everyone has had their opinion and it’s been trial by media for the guy. I wonder, and here comes the red thumbs but if the girl had one less glass of wine could we be looking at a kiss and tell story for a few quid in the Sun. Just a thought

“it’s been trial by media for the guy” Except that it’s actually been trial by jury and he’s been convicted? Comments about “kiss and tells” about someone who was able to prove their story in court makes all kind of survivors hesitant about coming forward, Rouzert.

Disgusting comment Rouzert.

Sorry my opinion disgusts you. Is it possible a court gets a decision wrong by any chance?

It is possible a court gets a decision wrong, however the disgusting part of your comment is casting disrepute on the character of the girl by implying that she would just be sleeping with him to get herself five minutes of fame and a story in the sun and talking about if she had one less glass of wine. This is victim blaming and is not acceptable. She was far too drunk to consent and already with his friend – what made him think she would be only delighted for him to join in. The default position should be that a very drunk girl unable to consent does not want to sleep with you, not the opposite.

Out of interest how many convicted murderers/ people jailed for GBH are you also supporting as potentially it being the victims fault and maybe they didn’t do it at all? After all like you said courts can make mistakes but it seems in cases of rape men are far more happy to cast doubt on a conviction and on the victim than in other cases.

Sure. But juries also acquit guilty people (especially in rape cases, where it’s very hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Evidence has to be pretty overwhelming to convict.) Somehow I doubt if he’d been acquitted, you’d be arguing that the court may have gotten it wrong.

The court has more information that you or I do, and the all-too-common spectre of a convicted rapist claiming the court got it wrong is not particularly convincing to most sensible people.

Why is it disgusting? As a football fan weekly there are girls who come out in papers and have kiss and tell stories so unfortunately there is no smoke without fire. Ever hear the story of people who cry wolf? Do you brand all this girls disgusting for their moment in the spotlight and a few quid? You seem to be very sure how intoxicated she was but if you look at the cctv I’m sure you’ll agree she doesn’t look too unsteady on her feet. Don’t get too upset love. This is the journal where people can express opinions and I’m sorry mine don’t match yours. I’ve not blamed any victim here I’ve just put forward a different side.

Have you actually read up on this case Nick. Absolute disgrace how he has been treated. I’m no fan of Ched or English football but the whole case is a mess. Court had it in for him from day one. Both Ched and his friend admitted straight away they had consensual sex with the girl and she never once said she was raped.
Of course he shouldn’t have been there as he had a girlfriend and that is a shameful act. Don’t people find it amazing that his friend was cleared of any wrongdoing… Even though they both did the exact same thing!

So because some girls come out in papers and have kiss & tell stories you presume this victim was the same? And now you are accusing her of crying wolf? He was convicted of her rape and yet you feel you can easily dismiss that conviction and try place the blame on her. Again you seem to consider yourself judge and jury. Because you think she looks steady on her feet he must be innocent?

Also don’t patronize me by calling me ‘love’. Thanks.

Anne K, have you seen the video evidence from the hotel. The girl was far from drunk! Yes she may have had a few drinks, but if you are going down that road where are you going to draw the line. It is well documented that the girl in question had a reputation for crying wolf on this issue before. Maybe someone needs to have a look at her instead.

“t is well documented that the girl in question had a reputation for crying wolf on this issue before. Maybe someone needs to have a look at her instead.” Because I’m sure his barrister didn’t even think of that line of reasoning! It’s only used in every rape case ever.

“Reading up on the case” gives you a small sample of biased information that is out there in the public arena. The court has information which you do not.

Sorry petal, but I’ve never claimed to be judge and jury. If you had read my post before the red mist descended did I not say it was just a thought. As in it would be a possibility? I’m sure the cctv made up a large part of the evidence so yes the fact she did look steady would indeed be a factor. If she was so intoxicated as not to consent surely she would be unsteady on her feet? Listen we’ve got difference of opinions but because mine isn’t the same doesn’t mean it’s disgusting so tie up that high horse of yours and have a nice cup of tea

Surely any information that they would have in court is public knowledge after the case. They couldn’t be hiding further info could they?

Pathetic.

So is your single mindedness. I’ve never once said during this whether I think he’s guilty or not. I’ve put forward a different side. What’s pathetic is jumping down someone’s throat and calling them names because they don’t agree with you. That’s pathetic!

All court transcripts are available to the public Nick..

“They couldn’t be hiding further info could they?” If by *hiding*, you mean that rape cases are held in camera, most people agree with that (except the trolls who exposed her name.) There’s no reason for the details to become public to random busybodies – it would be made available to the appeals court.

Most information in the public domain comes from Ched Evans’ publicity team – and it’s in their interest to try to make the survivor look as less satisfying as possible.

Rou , the girl never made a complaint that she was raped and she has had to move away and has been given a new identity so I don’t think , as you put it , was a kiss and tell .

She never made a report that she was raped? So did ched Evans walk into a cop shop and say I raped a girl? Secondly I asked if she had a glass of wine less would we be looking at a kiss a tell story. Hypothetical thought. Would help to read what I posted before trying to put words in my mouth

Rouzert , no she never said she was raped , maybe you should read up on the case .

Enlighten me then so

She said she couldn’t remember.. Big difference.

Rouzert , google it

Ok she didn’t got claiming rape in those words but in order with him to be charged she would have to proceed with the statement that got him the rape charge. Dress it up how you want but it’s the same thing whether she said he raped me or not. She said she couldn’t remember. So is it possible she doesn’t remember consenting?

alex de large…where can they be found??

the court transcripts that is??

Hey pathetic, why don’t you read up on the tweets about winning big from the trial buying her and her mate matching mini coopers after the trial. Sound like the tweets of an distraught victim?

Rouzert , who’s pathetic ?

Sorry Joan not you. Anne K started throwing insults around earlier and called me pathetic. Not aimed at you at all

The “alternative view” that you presented Rouzert, presumably was presented at trial, or at the very least the best possible version of events was (in so far as the defence saw it).

It was rejected to the point that the jury saw no reasonable doubt that he had raped this woman.

The tweets about making money from the trial were not released till after the case from a report I read. I’m not condoning rape but I do think that there is more to the story than meets the eye

Reports you read are not necessarily accurate. There are some people who are extremely credulous and willing to believe everything Evan’s family has said – but the jury had a higher standard of information.

So what your saying is the jury were given information that nobody else was in order to convict him? What about people in the public gallery and such. Were they asked before certain parts of the case to leave so this information could be used?

“So did ched Evans walk into a cop shop and say I taped a girl?”

Pretty much, yes. But he didn’t use the word rape, he just described the rape in his own words. His own description of events is what got him arrested, tried and convicted. And refused appeal.

Of course we can discriminate against him. He is a convicted rapist! How would you feel if he raped a member of your family?

Now THATS ignorant.

Well ive seen it on the flip side with girls taking advantage of drunk lads. I wonder do they give consent?

@Michael – personally sure, go ahead.
We as a society cannot allow that though. What you are saying is that this man commited a crime, and was sentenced and that the sentence was not good enough… That is an issue with the legal system, and action outside of the legal system is vigilantism, which is a very very dangerous thing in society.

Build your objections into the legal system if necessary

So Dennis,

Would you contend that everyone convicted of a crime should be allowed to get their old job back after they are released?

@Sean, I didn’t say that. However should they specifically be barred from it? Prior convictions are just that… prior. At what point does punishment end? The usual stance would be that it ends at the termination of the sentence that is handed down, taking into account the rules your jurisdiction has for early release.
The fact of the matter is the main reason anyone cares is because he’s a footballer

He was sentenced to five years and served half, now he’s out on license for remainder. Reaction of club patrons says it all.

So they should be attacking the justice system instead of the the man. Do you want him to tell the probation service he feels he hasn’t spent long enough inside?
How about looking at our own justice system here where a man can be convicted of rape and get out in six months while offering to pay compensation.. Disgraceful

Exactly. The man has served a punishment deemed fitting for the crime, regardless of whether people think it was too lenient. The public are only getting their knickers in a twist because he gets paid exorbitant amounts of money.

@Alex
You’re conflating several issues there, stick to the point.

Are you really criticising the club patrons whilst still supporting a convicted rapist? The mind boggles at some of the logic on here.

Steve Finnan never faced any charges let alone a conviction so you can take him out of the equation straight away.
I personally think Evans has a great change of having his conviction overturned on appeal…. That would be very interesting!

My issues with him returning to the club are pretty simple.

1. He is a convicted rapist and registered sex offender.
2. His presence at the club would be divisive.
3. Footballers are supposed to be held up as role models within the community, working with young people, in schools, youth teams, etc. – there are better role models.
4. He cannot claim to have been “rehabilitated” after a crime which he continues to protest, he did not commit.
5. At their base level, football clubs are also businesses, he will lose this business money. There is a clear business case for his not returning.

I have no problem with this man being reintroduced into society, but there is zero reason for giving him back a high profile job, in the public eye, with access to impressionable children who can and would see his resigning as an endorsement of his behaviour “ah yeah, rape someone, do yer time and it’ll be grand after”.

And the point still stands – what makes this different to the likes of McCormick who actually killed someone and was pretty much welcomed back with little fuss? Is it the fact celebrities are now outraged and social media is onboard?

Where I would draw the line is intent and admission.

McCormick was not intending to kill, and despite that he admitted it and plead guilty.

Whether he intended to or not, a court found that Evans raped. Equally, he has at no point accepted that finding.

Additionally, crimes of a sexual nature are dealt with/thought of differently. I’m not saying that McCormick should be back playing, but he at least admitted his crime and accepted his punishment. Those are the two basic criteria to rehabilitation in my eyes.

Hi Sean,

Ched Evans conviction for rape was upheld by the court of appeal in November 2012. There is no question that he was convicted of Rape.
The question now is should he be allowed to return to his chosen profession. Would we even be having this conversation if he worked in IT or was a Carpenter? Should people convicted of a crime be allowed to return to work after they have been released from prison, so long as they stick to the conditions of their release.

Gary,

That’s not the question at all.

The question isn’t whether or not he should be allowed, he is allowed.

The question is whether or not it is appropriate for the club to allow him to come back, into a position as a role model, being exposed to young people, influencing them, being held up as “If you work hard maybe you can be like Ched Evans”.

I have zero problem with him being allowed “to work”. My only issue is with the work he wants to do. Let him get a job elsewhere if he wants, just don’t give him a job that could influence young people to think “hey, he got away with it and still drives a porsche”.

I believe it’s the responsibility of the club, the FA and the PFA to think in these terms.

Hi Sean,

My point was should he be allowed to return to his chosen profession. So are we saying that society should be able to choose the work that those convicted of crimes are allowed to perform. Would it be OK if he did not earn such a large sum of money, what car should he drive.

From a personal point of view I believe that it is my job to teach my children right from wrong and not depend on footballers to do it.

Why should footballers be responsible for being role models any more than any other figure. Years ago they represented local communities, nowadays the vast majority are essentially mercenaries who will go where the money is. We don’t go round demanding that businesspeople, celebrities or heaven forbid even politicians should act as role models for young people, so why should footballers?

Gary, he should be allowed to apply to his chosen profession, it’s up to them if they take him. I’m not suggesting a legal remedy to prevent him from applying. I’m suggesting that from the club’s point of view he is not a good option for them.

I really don’t care if he earns a lot of money, if he works hard that’s totally fair. Thing is I don’t think that he should be held up as a role model, rightly or wrongly, like it or not, footballers are in the public eye.

The reason they should behave more responsibly is that they are in the public eye, Intallitarian. They choose that life, crave the fame and seek the public approval. It’s not like when they were training to be a professional footballer they thought that when they got there that they would live in a vacuum.

With the fame comes the responsibility. He failed in that responsibility which could make him infamous. I genuinely wish him no ill will. I do however think that his actions have made his position as a public figure untenable.

Sean , I would imagine that answer would be a no because he doesn’t believe he did anything wrong .

But the courts do. So who are we to believe?

Sean , I understand that that the courts found him guilty but this time I think there is more to this case .

Hakuin the girl was deemed too drunk to consent. In that case where a girl is horrendously drunk the presumption should be that she does NOT want to sleep with you . Obviously if he was found guilty in a court of law there is more to the case then ‘apparently she agreed’

That is his story. Obviously the jury believed differently, beyond a reasonable doubt. He’s hardly the most objective person on the issue.

“Apparently, at that point, she agreed but could not recall it the next day.”

According to whom?

According to the only people who could recall

Blood tests the next day found very little alcohol in her system Anne… Is that not a little strange?

So what is the legal definition for “too drunk”? If a girl is tipsy and says yes are you still in danger of going to jail for rape?
And if a guy wakes up in the bed of an absolute minger, or auld wan and he can’t remember how he got there, can he bring a case of rape against the woman, because he was too drunk to give consent?

You can have two parties, both drunk, neither of whom remember even how they ended up in bed together, and one of them, guess which gender, is now going to jail as a rapist if the other doesn’t want to be accountable for their actions and plays the victim card.
That may be the law, but how is that justice?

Unfortunately that is the way the justice system is skewed

Some how I doubt we will be hearing from Anne on that piece of logic Murphy. Well said

Yes if a man wakes up in the bed of a woman and does not remember what happened and feels that he was raped or violated then he can go to the police about it (I’m not sure why you are bringing the looks of the person into it?). The issue is that many men feel they will not be taken seriously in this situation which is another societal issue and one not helped by comments like yours that ascertain that they are just not being accountable to their actions.

I am not sure of the legal definition for “too drunk” however I am sure the qualified lawyers who fought this case that resulted in a conviction that the girl was too drunk to consent do know and used this in their case.

Again please stop victim blaming saying this girl was playing the ‘victim card’. Its no wonder we have such terrible rates of people coming forward to report rape when this is the attitude they are faced with even after a judge and jury believe beyond reasonable doubt that the person is guilty.

Anne seriously, you are the only one who is bringing up blaming the victim.

Peter seriously how is saying “the other doesn’t want to be accountable for their actions and plays the victim card.” or saying “she was too drunk to remember typical spoofing woman” not blaming the victim

The crime of rape requires penetration of the (male or female) victim by the man. Your hypothetical drunk man cannot be forced to penetrate the ‘minger’ or ‘auld wan’. He chooses to do so and there is no rape of him or her if she is capable of consenting and doesvactually consent.

Alex , plus her drink was not spiked either with any drugs , traces of coke was found but not taken on the night in question

Anne I’m not victim blaming.I have my own views on this case but my objections are not specific to this case it’s the principle that really concerns me. Basically it’s placing all responsibility on one gender. Both are party to a sexual encounter, both may be drunk, neither may remember giving consent but one can, for whatever reason, choose to frame it as rape and press charges and get the other convicted.
How would it sit with you if a man was able to go out, get drunk, sexually assault a woman and then claim innocence the next morning because he was too inebriated to know what he was doing, and the burden of proof was on the victim to show that he was not “too drunk” to be held accountable for his actions.
It’s madness

Anne, I just loved your replies, fair play to you and by the way I agree with you, he has shown no remorse because he feels like most sex offenders the victim asked for it, as for pfai why don’t they invite him to play here

True Joan.. There is too much to this case which doesn’t add up.

Alex , I agree that there seems to be more to it .