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MICHEAL NOONAN SAYS there would be a danger of contamination of evidence if “ready and free” access was allowed to any evidence that may be used in criminal proceedings arising from the banking crisis.
Answering reporters’ questions surrounding the Anglo Tapes and their leaking to the media, the Finance Minister said that people “shouldn’t be mucking around in Garda business” as there could be a “risk of contaminating evidence, and contaminated evidence is not admissible in court”.
Noonan said gardaí had acquired the recorded 2008 conversations of bank bosses three years ago, but that they “would have had access to them since the start of their enquiries”. The audio was leaked by an undisclosed source to Paul Williams of the Irish Independent, which published them in a series of exclusives last month.
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Asked about Sinn Féin’s contention in the Dáil that Anglo’s public interest director Alan Dukes should have informed the Government about the existence of the tapes if he knew about them, Noonan said there was “no seriousness” in the charges the party was making:
Sinn Féin do a bit of shouting and roaring usually, and they were at it again this morning…
Public interest directors have no more or no less legal obligations than any other directors of the bank. My interest in this is to ensure that evidence isn’t contaminated in any way by unauthorised persons interfering with or accessing it.
Noonan insisted that “the gardaí are the people who investigate crime this country” and that it was they who had “the statutory right to examine evidence”.
Asked whether he was concerned that a proposed Oireachtas inquiry into the banking crisis would have limited powers, the Minister said we would have to “wait and see” what proposals Minister Brendan Howlin brought to Cabinet on the issue.
The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has already indicated that he is open to re-running the referendum to increase the powers of Oireachtas committees.
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The Gardai have had the recordings for over 3 years. This means that FG and Michael Noonan in particular had full knowledge of the Anglo tapes when they converted the Anglo promissory note debt into a sovereign bond last February.
Noonan demonstrated his contempt for our democratic and legal systems and bulldozed through a midnight emergency Bill, voted on by a Dail full of TDs most of whom did not bother or did not have a chance to examine the legislation and some who had drink taken. This eliminated the promissory notes which were subject to a challenge in the Supreme court and converted that illegitimate debt into government bonds, welding banking debt to the Irish people for 40 years. Noonan couldn’t contain his self satisfaction with this stunt and has since admitted the promissory notes were illegal. FG and Labour will allow nothing to stand in their way as they ensure the odious banking debt is paid in full by the Irish people.
A government truly acting in the interests of the Irish people would have allowed the legal challenge to the promissory notes to run its course. If the notes were declared illegal by the Supreme court, they simply had to abide by that judgement in order to remove €47 billion of illegitimate private banking debt from our backs.
The evidence is overwhelming, Ireland is not being governed in the interests of its citizens.
Exactly…what are you hiding f@tso Noonan??? The whole country knows you were a bondholder. How much did youstand to lose if Anglo was left go to the wall???
Coddler and Frank
You are both tax evaders and you have the cheek to challenge Michael Noonan on his exemplary behaviour as a guardian of public finances. In addition to cheating every one of us law abiding tax payers who comply with the law and believe in the idea of everyone supporting each other in times of difficulty you bring your nastiness to the level of the corner boy and beyond by hurling personal insults as an expression of your intellectual deficits.
I’ll listen to you when you comply with your social and legal obligations !
Justice delayed is justice denied, the Irish people deserve justice and those responsible for destroying the Irish economy need to face the consequences of their actions. The Gardai and DPP need to do their duty and bring these perpetrators before the courts.
Rick, Noonans record includes his fighting a dying woman Brigid McCole, tooth and nail through the courts in order to deny her justice in the full knowledge that the institutions of the state had infected her with hepatitis. His record is indeed ‘exemplary’ in protecting powerful institutions at the expense of ordinary people and so he continues.
Coddler
The Legal and Moral imperative of any Government or Minister is to act in the interest of the People. When that imperative is observed there are occasionally individual outcomes that may be severe and even harsh but the Common Good is never served by hard cases.
For you to use the Bridget McCole case as evidence of malfeasance or dishonesty on the part of Mr Noonan simply shows how morally bankrupt you are or your lack of understanding which I would accept if proffered.
Mary, Cheers for the tip. Rick is a well known blueshirt mouthpiece around here with a few different usernames.I reply to him now and again when it suits as other readers may be interested in seeing the guff he spouts corrected.
@Dick MacRory….When I am offered an invoice with a list of the services that I will receive in return for the property tax, then I will gladly pay my way. But I am afraid that none is forthcoming, nor will it ever be, as the money gathered from the property tax is being used to pay off bondholders and to ensure that there is enough money in the coffers to pay for Kenny and his cabinet of clowns gold plated pensions.
Oh and don’t start with street lighting and all that other crap the likes of you like to spout. Before the bank bailout, the legitimate taxes that I used to pay, and have done for all my working life, used to more than cover the cost of these services.
There not dodging there taxes there just smart enough to not register and therefore not give there consent to be taxed which is an illegal tax in the first place
Fair play to yez lads
”The evidence is overwhelming, Ireland is not being governed in the interests of its citizens.”
when exactly did u come to this remarkable conclusion – now or five years ago ??
Mr Noonan et al acted disgracefully in the Hepatitis C cases and Mrs McCole was treated dreadfully. These women were also citizens and entitled to be part of the “common good”.
Eh no it’s not. If too much evidence is leaked beforehand it could jeopardise a fair trial as it would be hard to find a jury member who would decide only on the evidence presented in court and not what they’ve read in newspapers, seen on TV, heard on radios… or read on the journal.ie and its comment section.
Very true ignore. But to be fair on anglo tapes it in public interest and its been 5 years. Id rather have heard this released from a court room but its taking too long. I dont blame guards for that I know they should have had way more forensic accountants involved and way more gardai. Of course the garda boss said no we have enough we’re grand but sure he is political puppet cutting numbers and equipment and closing stations. Reality the guards did not have enough to investigate all the banks and the tens of millions of documents.
Guardian, I completely agree that they need more forensic accountants and I think that this is the reason the tapes were leaked. It’s drummed up a load of public outrage and has put political pressure on the government to perhaps release more funding to the Gardaí to conduct this investigation in a speedier manner… or maybe I’ve been watching too much of ‘The Wire’.
The only danger of “contamination” is from this governments total lack of interest in investigating what went on before the bank guarantee. Another 6 months and some would have escaped because of the time passed. If those tapes had not been leaked would there have been any pressure to investigate?
Well Mr Noonan, why would it appear that they’re not investigating rigorously if its taken them this long to do absolutely nothing.
If a companys manager had 5 years to turn a company around and make it profitable and he did nothing, would you still say he’s the right man to turn the company around
I wondered if there might be something relating to receipt of evidence (tapes etc) and bringing a case / charging someone….. As mentioned in the howlin being prig video. I hope not, but it’s ireland, so a ‘keep the head down for 6 years’ type stroke would be par for the course.
I think that’s down to a confusion between civil law regarding breach of contract, which has a statute of limitations of six years, and criminal law. Fraud is both a civil and criminal matter – so if a bank overcharges you, and you delay for six years before taking action – you void your right to be reimbursed. But if there is a criminal element to it (and there usually is if there is money involved), then the Gardaí can still investigate it and bring charges – providing it is an indictable offense.
Just in addition to this: summary offenses have a statute of limitations of two years. Indictable offences have no statute of limitations. Going by the sums of money involved here, we;re talking indictable offences here.
The guards have had irrefutable evidence of fraud for 3 years and haven’t acted on it? Maybe it’s more than just bankers who are due a date in the dock over this.
You do know a number of people have been charged and are awaiting trial in relation to Anglo Irish. Yes it is moving too slowly but to say noting is happening is false.
No one has been charged in relation to the lowballing that is clearly evidenced on those tapes, only over more minor issues like Seanie’s dodgy personal loans. One day after these tapes were released Honohan said they were likely evidence of fraud so why, after three years, have fraud charges not been brought? This is either Garda corruption or Garda ineptitude.
If you want the people and the free press to stop “mucking around in Garda business”, why don’t you get your Ministerial colleague Minister Shatter to instruct the Garda to stop “mucking around” & do their business?
O’Reilly = Jackass! Why hasnt there been something done before now ? ….. Because the ppl were being too quiet and walked on. Its about time the ppl kicked up and got results =)
It’s the same old story. Quote some legal technicality so that the public are kept in the dark . The very least we are entitled to know is what precisely is taking years to bring a case to court?
I know people are frustrated with the lack of prosecutions so for regarding Anglo Irish and the other banks – I know I am – but it’s better that they’re taking their time to get things right and ensure a conviction. If they rush it and mess up and then the defendants get off on a technicality there would be uproar. Of course, the Gardaí need proper resources to do this, i.e. forensic accountants etc.
Also, I don’t want to live in a country where governments put pressure on Gardaí to investigate and prosecute people.
Ignore
do you not think people are unhappy with minister noonan’s nonchalant approach…an example being him only writing to the other banks re the tapes yesterday?
Again, I don’t think it’s government’s place to be telling the Gardaí who or what they should be investigating. Okay, maybe in broad policy terms they can tell the Gardáí to put an emphasis on white-collar crime or ‘organised crime’ but they should definitely not have the power to tell them to investigate specific individuals. That’s a slippery slope t tyranny when the law-maker and law-enforcer are the one.
Well when the guards are in possession of evidence of fraud on a grand scale and for whatever reason choose to ignore it and fail to act on it, who exactly should call them to task?
@Ignore
Yes but he is the spokesperson for the government on these matters so at least he should be up to speed not lagging behind…im not saying that he should tell the gardai what to do im saying he should be in the loop and informed of all things relating to this matter….he says people should not be mucking about in gardai business but if minister noonan was doing his job then people woulden’t have to dont you think?
@Ignore
I agree 100% with your last statement but you cant have it both ways…it seems it was OK for Minister Shatter to request info from the Gardai on Mick Wallace but not for Mr Noonan to ask about whats happening with an investigation that cost the state 30 billion
Sorry, Weirdo! Firstly, if anything I think it should be Shatter and not Noonan that should be in touch with the Gardaí seeing as it’s Shatter who’s Minister for Justice.
And I don’t think it was okay at all for Shatter to request such information from the Gardaí about Mick Wallace! Although I don’t think that’s. I think during a briefing the Gardaí gave the Mick Wallace story as an example of Garda discretion with no idea Shatter would go off and try to use this information for political point-scoring. But the Shatter-Wallace debacle shows perfectly the problems of what would happen if there were too much government influence on Garda investigations.
Sorry, Weirdo! Firstly, I think if anybody it should be Shatter and not Noonan in touch with the Gardaí seeing as it’s Shatter who’s the Minister for Justice.
Secondly, I don’t think what Shatter did at all was okay, although, I don’t think it happened the way you said it. My understanding is that Shatter didn’t ask about Mick Wallace but that the Gardaí gave the information during a briefing as an example of how Gardaí discretion operates. They didn’t know that Shatter would then go off and use this information for political point-scoring. He definitely shouldn’t have the power to request such information and I don’t think that he does. But the Shatter-Wallace debacle illustrates perfectly the dangers of government interference in the work of the Gardaí.
hahaha sorry ignore, i was dying to use that pun, no offence
yes you are correct but to use minister noonans turn of phrase he was mucking around in gardai business,
im not very happy with minister noonans handling of this…only yesterday he wrote to the banks, surely this should have been done immediately the anglo tapes were leaked…it gives leeway for the banks to get rid of incriminating tapes….i am also very unhappy that we are not privy to the list of debtors in anglo bank…we are paying the debt so surely we have the right to know whos debts we are paying….its also on the grapevine that some of these debts we politicians and their cronies debts…if this is not the case he shoud have no problem releasing the list as he has nothing to hide….i have said in the past i believe enda kenny to be an honest man but im not so sure about the rest of them
I’ve no idea why I opened and read this post. I knew it would make smoke come out my ears.
I would have thought that justice and the rule of law is the business of every citizen. We agree, as a society, to entrust its implementation to the Gardaí and the courts, but we do not abdicate our own responsibility for it. And you, Mr Noonan, are elected by the people and accountable to them. The government of which you are part is not the country, it is a (supposedly) there to serve the country and its people. If it’s patently not doing so then the people have every right to take any steps they wish to try to force you into taking action on behalf of the common good, not the good of a privileged group.
If the Gardai have those tapes since 2008, given the severity of the destruction to our economy and our diminished standard of living, surely it doesn’t take five whole years to bring those responsible to justice?
I think that the Irish People deserve answers as to why it is taking so long to bring those responsible for the mess we are in to be prosecuted.
A “risk of contaminating evidence, and contaminated evidence is not admissible in court”.
Does that mean the Gardai have been pursuing a line of criminal investigation into the banking scandal all this time? Is someone preparing a case?
Cool! Can we expect a prosecutution any time soon or do we have to wait another few years to learn that those in charge of the governance of this state are actively trying to apprehend those responsible for its near destruction and loss of sovereignty? Oh…. are they not? Oh. So what’s Mr. Potato Head talking about?
Conflict of interest springs to mind when Mr Noonan pushed through legislation to convert the prom notes to government bonds
Which ensured as a bondholder he was paid in full
noonan is a muppet…deflection as usual…hes been found wanting and who does he blame…as usual…everyone else…..its a wonder he can stand up straight with his lack of backbone
Very interesting that Mr Noonan thinks it so important that the gaurds be lfet alone to do their business, when Alan Dukes is concerned. Where was he when others were being asked questions? It’s a case of teacher’s pet here I’m afraid…..and that the questions being asked of Mr Dukes are sailing very very close to the wind. Mr Noonan obviously likes to protect those close to him. At least he’s showing his true colours!!
3 yrs sitting on your hands Noonan and you still have the cheek to talk down to us as fools . Hopefully his time will come . Also has anyone asked what the hell the gardai are doing for last 3 yrs ? .still waiting for father Ted to step in and tell us its all a joke
Noonan, this isn’t like that time the local postmaster had his bike stolen when you were school-teacher. This whole country has suffered because of this and still is, its a history making mess and we all have a right to know what was involved.
CAB leaked these tapes as the investigation was going nowhere. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The Irish people are on the hook for white collar crimes and paying this through new taxes and our lovely govt have done sweet FA.
I posted here the other day that I wouldn’t be surprised if they had an ulterior motive for releasing the tapes now, after five years. It seems very suspicious to me that suddenly they’re pushing for another referendum on the powers of Oireachtais committees. They’ve proven they can’t be trusted about anything so why pretend that this is in the interest of the people. It’s nothing more than the same s**t again… you will vote again and again until we get the result we want!
4 years later, the people in Iceland that were responsible for a similar situation, have nearly finished their sentences and we’re still deciding if we can even press charges ! Our legal system needs an overhaul …..
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