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A MAJORITY OF Irish people support the work of online paedophile hunters according to a new poll.
The survey, conducted on behalf of RTÉ’s Claire Byrne Live by Amárach Research, suggests that 57% of those polled agree with the actions of such vigilante groups within the Republic of Ireland.
20% of respondents said they don’t support such work, and 23% said that they don’t know.
The poll question was put to 1,000 Irish adults, all aged 18 or over.
Such online groups have become increasingly prominent in recent months due to a number of stings that have been reported upon in national and international media.
Last December, RTÉ producer Kieran Creaven was intercepted at Leeds Airport in the UK by the vigilante group Predator Exposure which alleged it had used a fake Facebook account to draw his attention.
Creaven subsequently pleaded guilty to sex offences at Leeds Crown Court.
More recently, in Northern Ireland, a trio of self-proclaimed paedophile hunters were ordered by the courts to desist from such activity, after confronting a BBC journalist who had in turn sought to interview them about their actions.
Earlier this year, the PSNI warned that the actions of such groups ‘could have a detrimental impact on the criminal justice process’.
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Hard to argue against if they get lawful convictions.
@George Oscar Bluth: I can think of many reasons against it, the most obvious being the potential damage this can do to the families of the ‘named and shamed’.
@RichieC: Do you not reckon that possibilty might act as an additional deterrant to the average paedo?
@The Risen: I think it’s absolutely wreckless to put the law in the hands of vigilantism. As I said in another reply – what about the people they get wrong? It’s already happened in the UK. I’d rather leave the policing to those who are qualified. You play with fire when you celebrate this type of behaviour, regardless of the result.
@RichieC: Ah yes, so the filter can be applied i.e. before we charge him, is he/his daddy anyone important.
@RichieC: Oh and the hunters actually act as security until the police show up, lest vigilantes try to atrack the paedo
Do your homework please.
@The Risen: Ah yes, because the type of people who enjoy the sexual abuse of children are EXACTLY the sort of people who would selflessly put the needs/wellbeing of others ahead of their own twisted desires. Yeah, totally…
@The Risen: It won’t act as a deterrent because the peado is driven by an overpowering compulsion that pushes aside the possible dangers involved. They already know that what they are doing is wrong but they will still do it. Some thrive on the sense of danger while others are terrified of getting caught but like an addict they need to get a fix no matter what the consequences. An overwhelming sexual compulsion combined with the slow build up of fantasy through the chat room will override any fear of getting caught.
Even though the deterrent is significant they will still take a chance. A strong deterrent doesn’t always work. Look at the deterrents against drink driving both legal and actual (crashing into someone) and yet still people take a chance.
Ah yes, nice to see all the obviously qualified psycologists checking in. I’ll concern myself with the welfare of the peados next victim if thats all the same.
@The Risen: I’d prefer if you’d concern yourself with an educated response rather than consistent deflection…
@The Risen: If that comment is directed at me then you are right I am qualified with a Diploma in the Psychology of Criminal Behaviour from UCC. https://www.ucc.ie/en/ace-dpcb/ First Class Honours as well.
@RichieC: The paedo hunters video of that bloke in the phoenix park ‘educated’ parents enough to recognise him hanging around a playground in Maynooth a week later. A phone call was made and he was picked up. I start with preventing the child being raped and work backwards from there.
@No One: So am I https://www.ucc.ie/en/ace-dpcb/
See I can post links too.
Epic fail
@The Risen: https://ucc-ie.academia.edu/BrianWard
It’s you who have failed. I’ve mentioned on here a few times about my qualifications and here are 2 papers that I have uploaded. Here is a link to my Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/BravoWhiskey19?ref=tn_tnmn that I normally comment from until a little runt of a Journal so called journalist decided to ban me because they got into a huff.
@The Risen: whoosh!
@No One: That proves bugger all. I can copy and post a link to anyones profile thats on the internet.
I stand by my position. If theres two children and I only am in a position to prevent ones feelings being hurt or one being raped, I don’t refer to my college courseware.
But thats just me
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú:
Whoosh yourself
@The Risen: Yeah I went to the trouble of trawling the internet to find someone’s profile who matched the qualifications that I needed, then posted them as my own and even contacted that person at 1 AM to ask them to post a link to this article to prove that the facebook profile was mine. That’s an awful lot of trouble to go to isn’t it. Face it, you made a smart comment, you got called out on it now just put on your big boy pants, accept that I am what I say that I am and move on.
Heroes one and all, I say that as a father of a young girl…..
@The Risen: The same type of heroes who brutally assaulted and burned alive a disabled Iranian man in Bristol after he was falsely accused of being a paedophile?
@Harry Whitehead: Nope. The hunters protect the paedo till the cops arrive. Do your homework.
@Harry Whitehead: I think there is a fair difference between these hunters and random gangs of thugs that wantonly beat and or kill a suspect. I am cautious of them but as I said above if they operate within the law and ultimately secure a conviction then I think it is worth it. Ideally if they should work with gardai and psni on this.
The problem is that their actions could in fact lead to peados getting off on the grounds of entrapment or that the evidence was tainted as the videos of the confrontations had been posted online and therefore might harm any future prosecutions. If they (the hunters) gather evidence and then hand that over to police then this is the best practice and let the police handle inquiries from there. The way they are going about it now is not the best way to do it.
By confronting and posting the video online before telling the police it gives the alleged suspect plenty of time to wipe their PC and dispose of any incriminating evidence that may be on it. Have these guys thought of that? A suspect could claim that they were meeting the child because they felt that they might be coming to harm and that they were going there to meet them and call the police to alert them to that fact. They could claim that their computer was hacked, in fact there is any number of things that a good lawyer could use to claim innocence.
If on the other hand the hunters tell the police the time and place of the meeting and a sting operation is set up then the police can arrest the suspect for solicitation and furthermore obtain a warrant to search their home as part of their inquiries. This i and the police would think is the best course of action.
@No One: Have to agree, all the relevant police forces in the various jurisdictions involved, here, in Northern Ireland and in the UK have pleaded with these groups to stop. However well meaning they may be they’re not actually doing anyone any favours and may actually be allowing those they’re trying to stop to get off.
In one of those online videos I’ve seen one of the group involved asked for “hearts and kisses”, their prime motivation therefore is their own ego, green thumbs, whatever way you wish to describe it.
One of the groups in Northern Ireland in fact proudly displayed a letter on their website from the police there warning them in quite strong language that they themselves would be the subject of police investigation should they continue their vigilante activaties. They seemed oblivious to the fact that they were not only causing harm to any meaningful investigations and hope of prosecutions but quite proud of it.
I had a friend some years ago who worked int he financial sector, she described how they had an obligation to report certain credit card transactions to the gardai, they believed some people would ‘test out the waters’, if noting happened they get braver, and so on. They’d do noting with the information for a year or more, then early one morning a knock on the door would announce a search warrant. You can imagine the rest.
The problem is that this can’t happen in these cases. Our natural instinct, especially anyone with children, is to want them stopped immediately but this isn’t always the correct way. It’s the one that most pleases us, and that’s what these groups are appealing to. The ‘hugs and kisses’ brigade. If they really had actionable intelligence there’d be nothing stopping them passing it along to the relevant police force and asking them to act upon it, as I’ve illustrated it may take some time, but they would act. Of course the rest of the world, and social media, may never hear of this and they wouldn’t get the ‘hugs and kisses’ they crave so they don’t do it. It’s not catching bad guys they crave, it’s the adoration of everyone on social media, all those ‘hugs and kisses’.
What would happen if two paedophile hunters were chatting up each other…
Is that a fake account you’re using there?
@: Essentially it’s a form of Honey Trap where the hunters masquerade as children to lure the paedophile out into the open so can’t see how the twain would meet.
could they not just has the information into the gardai instead ?
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú:
As far as I understand this is part of the ethical debate surrounding this initiative which is proactive in its operation. Supporters of the initiative argue that even in instances where paedophiles take up residence in communities near schools e.g. the general police response is that as long as no crime is committed no action can be taken, a not very reassuring response for worried parents which seems to have swayed the public’s support in favour.
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: exactly! Handing over the info to authorities will do so much more. Only reason I can think of why they won’t is they want the recognition? I commend what they do up to a point. If it affects the outcome of a conviction negatively then no it’s not right. The police have stated this but they continue posting it all over social media
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú:
Now you’re talking
If these ‘hunters’ were truly doing good work, they’d hand in any evidence they have collected to the police BEFORE they decide promote themselves through live ‘stings’ on social media. For the sake of self promotion, this kind of behaviour could jeopardise potential convictions.
@RichieC: Yes yes, because there are ZERO instances of the Gardai being informed of a paedophile and him being free to carry on regardless.
Yeah and if you’re unlucky enough to be the guy they mistakenly identified as one last year, then you’re just a necessary casualty it seems…
@Gerard: 5 years ago
@Domhnall McMahon: Get your facts straight before you correct someone else http://jrnl.ie/3414544
I think those Peado hunters do brilliant work.
They take the time that most of us wouldn’t have to trap those sick s*um that try to manipulate and abuse children online and through social media.
Fair play to them.
@Dead Mousche: Or rather it’s self indulgent/self promoting thugary.
@RichieC: Nah…..Every video you see online of them confronting some lad that was there to meet a child…Was a child saved from abuse.
@Dead Mousche: How about the ones they get wrong? Or whar about the family, nieces & nephews of the person they ‘out’? Leave the policing to the police.
@RichieC: I wouldn’t put concern for the families of paedophiles before an innocent child who could be abused, go missing or be murdered. Surely the paedophiles would be worried about being caught and publicly outed or that it would be a deterrent and a child might be saved.
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: Exactly Sighle
@RichieC: You seriously expect people to care about the family’ neices’ nephews etc of the paedophile that’s been outed?….It’s a paedophile who’s tried to meet up with a child after explicit sexual dialogue online….It’s all there in the videos…They don’t just pick at random…It’s months of online build up before they confront these s*cum.
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: So you don’t care about what repercussions may happen to an innocent niece or nephew because of these live videos? I’ve giving a specific example here because one of these videos popped up last month and the ‘interviewer’ asked about the person niece’s and nephews. When I saw that, it made me wonder how what kind of impact that was going to have on the those kids – or how their school friends great them – as a result of them also being named in said video.
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: and because they’re taking the law into their own hands .a paedo could walk free from court ..sounds good yeah ?
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: Well said.
@Dead Mousche: “You seriously expect people to care about the family of the paedophile that’s been outed?” – Really? I think that ridiculous statement alone proves my point exactly.
@RichieC: to be fair it is the paedo that should be concerned about his own family and nieces and nephews because if his actions …
@RichieC: People don’t care about a perpetrators family…That’s life…thats the way it is…They just want them off the street. Who cared about Graham Dwyer’s wife and kids from foxrock when he was done….Nobody. Make your bed and all that…
@Dead Mousche: So you’re saying it doesn’t matter if an innocent child is hurt as long as these hunters get to out a potential paedophile online?
@Dead Mousche: there was a lot of sympathy for his wife and kids at the time ..wasnt their fault at all.
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: How we look at another way – what if the niece or nephew has been abused by the person in question? This ‘online justice’ bypasses can be incredibly dangerous for the victims too. As I’ve already stated, why is it necessary to out the person live online? Why can’t they hand in all their evidence to the police before the act of self promotion.
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: Yeah there was, horrible for them..Everyone still wanted him to suffer for what he done though.
@RichieC: In all videos I’ve seen from these guys…Innocent children have been saved…Not hurt.
Tell me Richie….if the hunters weren’t there to meet those Peado in those videos….what do you think would have happened to those kids who’d have been there instead?
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú:
Stop talking about your husband like that
Any thing that can save a child.
At very least it’s a deterrent. Too many paedophiles get too short sentences or no convictions. The fear of getting ousted publically has to be a deterring factor?
@Michelle Wallace: Recently 32 Irish online child porno promoters were not apprehended by the Gardai. On foot of a tipoff by international child protection agency. Their computers were taken into custody. Pending an investigation. Have there been any arrests made?
@Patricia McCarthy: you’ve been told before that Gardai must go through and retrieve ALL evidence from those computer BEFORE any charges can be brought. I can’t make it any simpler for you.
@Patricia McCarthy: I would say that the reason that no arrests have been made is that the unit in the gardai that investigates cyber crime is woefully under resourced and I think I read recently that there is a 2 year backlog in case loads. The Dept of Justice really needs to tackle this as a matter of urgency because these guys use forums and chat rooms to share ways of keeping their identity hidden and their data secure. They also use servers in the likes of Russia to store their data because possession of child porn is legal in Russia and in fact quite a few other countries.
@Michelle Wallace: Just because it seems like a deterrent, doesn’t mean it is. There’s no proof at all. If anything it might drive them further underground, making it even more difficult for the actual police to catch them.
@Paul: I can’t make it any simpler for you either. Have there been any arrests made? Answer the question.
@Patricia McCarthy: the key words ..pending an investigation.
@Patricia McCarthy: maybe I do need to spell it out. In this country where people have rights, the Gardai get one chance to question except in rare circumstances. Let say, just to satisfy you, they arrested those 30 odd people on the day they raided for the computers. The clock starts and they now have six hours to question them. The computers haven’t been examined. They’ve no questions to ask, no evidence to present and the prisoners are let go. They can’t be charged without evidence.
The problem with ANY vigilante group is that they, by definition, operate outside any legal definition and moral obligations.
Unfortunately, the real ‘problem’ in Ireland is that the Guards have a ‘policy’ that dictates that they ‘know’ where an offender resides and that they take an”hands-off” approach.
This is a policy that allows them to know the whereabouts of known offenders (without disclosing to the public) and keep their own (supposed) eye on their activities.
This policy is what should be debated, rather than that of some self-proclaimed do-gooder who is/might impede the lawful work of the Guards and. may well end up accusing a totally innocent person (As has been mentioned before).
Its good that paedophiles should know what could happen to them if they decide to act on their impulses.
@Virtual Architect: ….safe in the knowledge that any evidence is inadmissible and any proper investigation most likely rendered useless.
@Matt Connolly: Speculation. Lets see how that fella from RTE fares…
@The Risen: He already pleaded guilty. Fantastic result, the system works and at least one child saved.
Not a supporter of Vigilantism in any form, and I get the feeling that these groups are in it for the attention and thrill and not to protect those they claim to. What’s the aim here? A 40 year old man pretending to be a 16 year old girl on Snapchat, is that not wrong in itself?
I get the feeling that these groups are the equivalent of catching someone stealing sweets while the bank is robbed around the corner, thus distracting/taking away resources from the Gardai and Interpol from catching those who produce and distribute the vile images etc?
Why aren’t they protesting for compensation for the victims of the Catholic Church?
@Michael Knight: because that’s not what they’re about ..
I think it’s a great idea as long as they are 100% sure they target the right people.
@Rob Cahill: I watched a documentary on it, they were trawling for suspicious replies and the man they caught was not replying accidentally. He was going out of his way to groom a young child, he was very actively taking the bait, urging the child to meet him, offering bribes. I can only see that going wrong if they all grabbed the postman by mistake, but they waited until the “man” identified himself, went inside and asked for the child by name as “a friend”. Horrible how eager he was to get to a child, didn’t appear to have any reservations about what he was at. Ruthless character.
I can’t help but feel those involved in this sort of activity are over-compensating. Like they have paedaphilic tendencies themselves, like the anti-gay pastor types that get caught in bathrooms with young men. The vast majority of us despise paedophiles but to go out of your way to try and catch them… I mean what are they trying to prove!? Police services have to be super vigilant as to who they allow work in this field as it would give paedophiles perfect cover. There’s no such caution from the vigilantes. And if they collect evidence the wrong way they can get cases thrown out. Leave it to the police for crying out loud!
How many were polled? That is the important question.
Well, most people at one time supported slavery. Popularity does not make a choice a correct choice. The majority of vigilantes are found to be criminals themselves once exposed.
While in the majority of case I am totally against vigilante groups, the type who pull suspects out of house and beat up suspected peados, I am actually all for these entrapment groups, I think they do a great job bating these sick individuals and hand them over to the cops, little or no mistaken identity can be made
Paedophiles = evil. Vigilantes = dangerous. Like some other posters on here I wonder about the motivation of some of these vigilantes. Is it not a case of extreme virtue signalling in some cases.
@Frank McGlynn: It’s only that they seem quite effective. They get the perv’s attention focused on their posts instead of him pursuing and setting up a real child. It’s more like a decoy operation than vigilante activity. I’m completely against vigilante attacks – far too high a chance of mistaken identity and some completely innocent man suffering from a mob. This is a different idea, and it does seem to work.
They’re pretending to be young boys and girls online with no psychological examination , doing it for money as they confront people when they could just hand evidence over , vindictive people wanting to ruin somebodies lives is what it is and most likely nonces themselves . probably out of a hatred of their own thoughts ! Imagine how easy it would be if you shared a computer with someone to set someone up , get in touch with these guys while in parallel set up your victim with a date with an adult ! This is way out of normal behavior and incredibly deviant ! About .6% of the male population have this sick illness of which the majority don’t act on and the majority as in about 98% of these abuses happen within the family / adopted guardians or historically state or church run institutions . These people are sick deviants with twisted fantasies of power preying on often intellectually disable of damaged people
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