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Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said tech companies need to invest in more staff so they can take down reported content more quickly. Eamonn Farrell

Taoiseach 'appalled' that comment referring to 'knacker children' not removed by Facebook

The Taoiseach made the comment as he launched the government’s new online safety strategy, which will see Facebook and Google on an advisory panel.

TAOISEACH LEO VARADKAR has said he is appalled to hear how Facebook ruled that a post saying “knacker children should be burned” was not against the website’s community standards.

Varadkar was asked about the matter at the government’s national strategy for online safety in Dublin today.

He told reporters he had not seen the post mentioned, but said he could not imagine how such language could possibly be tolerable.

“I am appalled to hear that, quite frankly,” he said, adding that if something of that nature was said about women, black or LGBT people, it would not be allowed.

The Taoiseach said he would follow-up on the matter with Facebook as he could not understand how the social media site’s standards would not rule a post like that out-of-order.

In response to his remarks, a Facebook spokesperson told TheJournal.ie there was a mistake in its processes which meant the post was not removed.

They said:

This post violates our Community Standards on hate speech and should have been removed. We’re sorry that this did not happen, and we’re looking into why it was not removed.
Hate speech is never acceptable on Facebook and we work hard to keep it off our platform. We have invested significantly to expand our safety and security teams to help deal with problematic content and introduced new technology to proactively detect hate speech without anyone needing to report it.
In fact, of the 2.5 million pieces of hate speech we removed from Facebook since January this year, 38% was flagged by our technology.

Google and Facebook to sit on advisory council

The Action Plan for Online Safety includes the establishment of a national advisory council on online safety and a national communications campaign.

Junior Minister of Communications Sean Kyne said it is envisaged that Google and Facebook will be asked to sit on the advisory council, as will other stakeholders from children and youth groups.

The report states that while online platforms are engaged in online safety measures, such as working with the gardaí, tech companies may have to do more.

When asked by TheJournal.ie what companies such as Facebook and Twitter, should be doing, the Taoiseach said the big tech companies are “very attuned” to the issue.

“They know that failing to act when it comes online safety is damaging their reputation and potentially damaging their shareholder value in the longer term – that is what big companies care most about, let’s be honest.

“I think what they need to do is invest a lot more in resources and staff in taking down reported content quickly.”

Taking down reported content quickly

He said some smaller tech companies don’t have the resources or staff to carry out that kind of work at all. Varadkar said companies also need to ensure they respond to user complaints quickly, or ensure it cannot be uploaded in the first place.

While the action plan notes a voluntary code of conduct for tech companies, the government has been criticised for not regulating the tech industry, many of whom have their European headquarters in Dublin.

“The internet, by its very nature, has a global reach that governments don’t have,” said the Taoiseach.

Despite committing to establishing a Digital Safety Commissioner earlier this year, the government appears to be rolling back on the promise. The Law Reform Commission recommended that such an office be set up in 2016.

A Sinn Féin’s Private Members Bill, introduced in 2017, to set up such an office was passed. However, the government said the Bill raised “jurisdictional and other legal issues”.

Other aspects of the Bill include the publishing of an annual safer internet report, creating a new gov.ie website where all online safety resources can be accessed, as well as equipping teachers and parents on online trends and digital safety.

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70 Comments
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    Mute Dáithí
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:40 PM

    My God I agree inappropriate language but he should go look at the youtube posts from the travelling community, nothing but racist hatred and vile , even shouting on youtune videos comments about burning people out and murdering them. has he seen some of the videos they post about the garda and what they call them.

    934
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    Mute Phillip Maguire
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:56 PM

    @Dáithí: Alt-Right comments are worse on YouTube, the plankton of the comments sections.

    70
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    Mute Dáithí
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:58 PM

    @Phillip Maguire: back under the bridge

    191
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    Mute Colm O'Leary
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:48 PM

    Perhaps the person in charge of removing it on Facebook could speak English and realized that a knacker is an actual trade and not an insult! A knacker is a term for a person that buys and disposed of dead horses and renders them down for dog meat and boils up the bones for glue. As in “being sent to the glue factory” and old horses “being sent to the knackers yard” as far as I can see it’s nothing to be insulted by!

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    Mute Paul Laing
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:51 PM

    @Colm O’Leary: you have carefully side stepped the perjorative meaning and the expression of urge to burn such persons.

    133
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    Mute Em Watson
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:18 PM

    @Colm O’Leary: that could be true but do you agree with a tradesman children being burned? It was the whole message that was the problem. Not just that one word. It was hate speech from top to bottom.

    72
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    Mute Austin Rock
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:43 PM

    @Colm O’Leary: Yeah yeah OK Bolli!s is an Anglo Saxon word for nonsense which aptly describes your contribution to such an appalling comment

    30
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    Mute David Edwards
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    Jul 12th 2018, 6:18 AM

    @Colm O’Leary: what hurt my brain is that on some level you actually thought that pre-pubescent comment was clever

    4
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:23 PM

    “Hate speech” is a synonym of “uncomfortable truth”.

    178
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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:31 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: you think their children should be burned? What’s wrong with you?

    103
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    Mute Austin Rock
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:42 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: You are one sad sad person

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:44 PM

    @Karen Wellington: If you think that’s what I meant, then you are demented.

    53
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    Mute Conor Paddington
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:48 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: what else could you have possibly meant?

    31
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:50 PM

    @Conor Paddington: How about we play a little game. You try and figure it out and I’ll tell you if you’re right. You up for it?

    52
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    Mute Conor Paddington
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:01 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: seems like a pretty good way of letting you off the hook for saying a despicable and sçümmmy thing thing about some children… so nupe, I think you should justify your own awful behaviour.

    49
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:46 PM

    @Conor Paddington: Lol. You’re complaining about your own conclusion! You simpleton.

    31
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    Mute Conor Paddington
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:56 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: correct, my conclusion about the awful thing you said. I honestly think you’re embarrassed about what you said, see know way to post-rationalise it into meaning something else, and are trying to turn this into a game of “I know you are but what am I” until everybody gets bored. Well… well done, I’m bored.

    36
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 8:49 PM

    @Conor Paddington: Okay listen, I’ll dumb it down, just for you. I was referring to the very concept of hate speech, not the particular contents of this article. OBVIOUSLY (and I can’t believe that I have to spell this out for you) I don’t agree with children being burned. You maniac. My god.. some people are so incredibly stupid, I honestly can’t believe it at times. Get it now bucko?

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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    Jul 11th 2018, 9:07 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: Give it up, Brendan, you lost. Hand in your Stone Cutters ring

    32
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 9:25 PM

    @Joe Phillips: Cheers for that Joe. Riveting stuff. Compelling reading.

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    Mute Conor Paddington
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    Jul 11th 2018, 10:06 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: obviously…

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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    Jul 11th 2018, 10:34 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: I didn’t write an essay, Brendan. The intention wasn’t to spellbind. It was just to point out that you lost in the above exchange.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 11:18 PM

    @Joe Phillips: The above exchange is nothing but an demonstration of a strawman argument and is illustrative of the piss poor dialogue that is so common these days. I make a point about hate speech and I get accused of being okay with burning children. The absolute state of ye lot. You should be embarrassed. Seriously.

    14
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 11:24 PM

    Cathy Newman is very proud of you all. SO YOU’RE SAYING YOU THINK KIDS SHOULD BE SET ON FIRE?!?!?! Idiots.

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    Mute Tommy Roche
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    Jul 11th 2018, 11:43 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: Do you think it’s fair to assume, given the content of the above article and the fact that this is the comment section for the above article, that people thought you were referring to the hate speech as described in the above article ? You knew what you were doing. You worded your support for that disgusting Facebook post carefully so as to have a get-out clause. Backfired.

    13
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 12th 2018, 12:00 AM

    @Tommy Roche: Oh for gods sake… I have ALREADY CLARIFIED what i meant and that still isn’t enough for you, so what exactly do you want from me? I have an anonymous account, I say what I mean. If I wanted to defend the FB posts then I would just do it, I wouldn’t be playing stupid games. The fact that you lot thought I was defending the burning of children says more about you than it does me. You morons would rather believe your own nonsense than admit you took me up the wrong way. That’s all on you guys. Own it.

    9
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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    Jul 12th 2018, 1:14 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: Yeah, man. Everyone else is wrong. Just own it ffs. It was a bad choice of words on this article.

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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    Jul 12th 2018, 1:15 AM

    And stop calling everyone morons.

    7
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 12th 2018, 2:16 AM

    @Joe Phillips: I beg your pardon but my original comment has substantially more “likes” than any subsequent comments in this thread, so it would appear that most people knew perfectly well what I meant. Unless of course, you think they all want to burn kids too?? Strange, how you can think so little of people. At least be enough of an adult to just say “Fair enough, sorry. We took you up the wrong way, you obviously don’t want to burn kids, that’s such a ridiculous assertion that it sounds like the ramblings of a lunatic. Especially, after you clarified it, for the slow kids in the class”…. Y’know or something like that. That’d be your best course of action right about now.

    6
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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    Jul 12th 2018, 2:39 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: It’s been explained to you already why some people took your comment negatively. Your best course of action would arguably have been to not write that comment. On the other hand, it’s also arguable that it’s better for everyone if everyone else wears their true colours loud and proud so as to recognise like-minded and not-so-like-minded people.
    It’s all good.

    4
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    Mute Brian harris
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:40 PM

    Now Leo wants to control what people say. Its one persons opinion, get over it or run for your safe space.

    114
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    Mute William Rowlands
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:00 PM

    Non of you run a shop it’s an night mare with theft abuse bad language running normal customers and the main thing staff crying with fear it is pretty clear to me they are using the law to cry victom

    132
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    Mute Mark McDermott
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    Jul 12th 2018, 10:32 AM

    @William Rowlands: Plenty of people cause problems not just one group, what’s your point?

    3
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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:14 PM

    He’s more worried about the slagging himself and FG gets on its FB page for the lies they spin. Everything has to appear all rosy in Leo’s garden. Image, false or not, is everything to him.

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    Mute FartyTowels
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    Jul 11th 2018, 10:19 PM

    Near where I live there is a village with a small beach. The local scouts run a tiny sweet shop by the beach run voluntarily by the kids to raise money for their scout group. My father came down the other day to see a certain recognised minority trying to climb over the counter and take product and they were verbally abusing and threatening the two scouts behind The counter ffs these kids are young teenagers.

    71
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    Mute Paul Laing
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:36 PM

    Facebook, we help to make your hate and prejudice go further. Need a platform for hate, use Facebook.

    Yes, we can spread fake news, falsehoods, and trouble making stories for you but, using our making technology, we can do even more. We can allow you post up your hate and prejudice against any minority group, using incendiary language, and we will use our “Community Standards” to protect your freedom of expression of hate.

    Facebook, we get to the places of hate that others can only attempt.

    71
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    Mute Dave Thomas
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:40 PM

    @Paul Laing: same with all of them Twitter, YouTube et al. I think it was better when I didn’t have to hear every idiots opinion. Thanks internet.

    34
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    Mute Paul Laing
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:40 PM

    @Sweet George: it did not but keep trying.

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    Mute man.over.board
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:42 PM

    @Paul Laing: And did you mock the deaths of people in Portugal?

    58
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    Mute Paul Laing
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:49 PM

    @Dave Thomas: social media facilitates the spread of hate. Google produces search results on controversial with a highly negative slant, weighted in favour of harmful remarks. Twitter and Facebook still act as amplifiers of mass hate and may support freedom to express hate unless it advocates violence. Human behaviour has been coarseness and desensitised as a result.

    Jaron Lanier has written an excellent short book “Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounnt” – it makes a lot of sense.

    12
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    Mute Paul Laing
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:50 PM

    @man.over.board: why would I do something like that? I certainly did not.

    7
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    Mute Phillip Maguire
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:02 PM

    @Sweet George: You’ve obviously had a lot of accounts banned yourself if you remember that far back and are using a brand new trolling account. What a Grade-A hypocrite you are.

    12
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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:16 PM

    @Phillip Maguire: I don’t think @sweet George is the one saying that Facebook is a hate filled platform while still using it .
    Most people on here know Micheal/fiona/Tony by his ramblings , he consistently berates Facebook as a tool for hate speech , yet uses it to spew out his own hatred for certain religions .

    36
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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:28 PM

    @Ken Hayden: but if he’s using it to ‘spew out his own hatred’ then he’s correct to say it’s a tool for spreading hate

    8
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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:36 PM

    @Karen Wellington: Which he ironically has said before , yet he will still use it to virtue signal for his own crazy ideas when he can .

    21
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    Mute Stephen Brady
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:47 PM

    @Dave Thomas: Don’t worry those days will be back soon

    2
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    Mute Seamus Mac
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    Jul 11th 2018, 8:28 PM

    @Ken Hayden: mainly Catholicism

    9
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    Mute Adrian
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:56 PM

    Taoiseach appalled that comments referring to kn***ker children not removed from Facebook. (He’s rightly appalled btw). But taoiseach NOT appalled at taoiseachs comments critizing the media with negative insinuations to free speech while on a diplomatic mission to the free speech supporting UN.

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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Jul 11th 2018, 8:10 PM

    GET BACK TO WORK LEO!

    37
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    Mute Daniel Donovan
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:54 PM

    I may not agree with what you are saying but I’m willing to defend your right to say it.

    31
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    Mute Joseph Dempsey
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    Jul 11th 2018, 9:24 PM

    It’s a pity Leo wasn’t as s equally appalled at more pressing matters. As for the particular post, absolutely nothing wrong with it, appropriate, accurate and correct. Leo might take the time whilst he’s trawling his latest social media posts, to look at the vile, attrocious, appalling, violent, racist candy homophobic videos posted on you tube by Travellers. Ethnic recognition my A@#£. And whilst I’m at it, how about this charming section of societies opinion on gay People, especially those in their own community.

    43
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    Mute Alick Stewart
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    Jul 11th 2018, 11:54 PM

    @Joseph Dempsey:- Nothing wrong with burning the children of travellers “appropriate accurate and correct “. you think the travellers posts on you tube are” vile appalling racist candy homophobic, but you are ok with burning their children. Right .

    3
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    Mute Joseph Dempsey
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    Jul 12th 2018, 7:46 AM

    @Alick Stewart: To be honest, I didn’t see the full post so I apologize, however the shocking double standards is breathtaking. We are expected to tip toe around this group, always careful not to offend and yet this very group promotes the very actions and worse on full display on you tube. The Irony being Leo jumping on the bandwagon when the very same people ostricise those who are gay in their community and I might add violently so. If anyone other than Travellers behaved the way they do, they’d be facing criminal prosecution with gusto.

    18
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    Mute Quentin Moriarty
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    Jul 11th 2018, 10:31 PM

    Should be changed to
    Traveller children should be disciplined
    Win win for everyone

    35
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    Mute mary conneely
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:42 PM

    There is a belief out there that you can type anything you like and publish it on social media and it does not matter because you can’t visualize your audience. It’s a bit like picking your nose in the car and think no one can see you.

    42
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    Mute Edward Smith
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:26 PM
    19
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    Mute Scottyal
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    Jul 11th 2018, 10:10 PM

    Maybe if he kept in touch with ordinary people he might learn a lot more than from his spin doctors.

    20
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    Mute Paul Laing
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:38 PM

    I tested the words on the Journal scale. It produced a toxicity rating of 9.5 out of 10. Pretty bad.

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:27 PM

    @Paul Laing: ( slavery is abhorrent ), by itself earns 4.6 on the toxic meter . Some App for using as evidence of hate speech .

    24
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    Mute Yogi Béar
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    Jul 12th 2018, 6:40 AM

    @Ken Hayden:
    That’s because you used big confusing words the scare most of the journals readership and possibly their journalists too.

    4
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    Mute Ted Murray
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    Jul 11th 2018, 5:56 PM

    I can only assume that Facebook hasn’t got any community standards, and if you do report something that’s OTT bad, you might as well talk to the wall.

    14
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    Mute J
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:32 PM

    @Ted Murray: that’s because Facebook is only interested in getting all your personal data in order to sell on to advertisers.

    28
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    Mute Katie
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:16 PM

    Facebook are more concerned with removing pictures of nipples than anything that causes any real offence…I reported a very hateful comment about gay people and got the standard response of doesn’t violate our community standards blah blah..

    24
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    Mute Wayne Murray
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    Jul 12th 2018, 5:34 PM

    I don’t condone the “burning of knacker children” comment but many people have reached the end of their tether with the travelling community. They contribute nothing to society. Have little or no respect for the law and terrorise rural Ireland. You’d be hard pressed to find a farmer who hasn’t had a run in with them. While most of us work to pay our way in life they are entitled to everything including free third lvl education because they’re a minority group. They seem to be able to carry on their lawless way of life without being checked by the authorities who would rather turn a blind eye than deal with them. This is why people are frustrated and unfortunately this frustration has been expressed in the wrong manner this time.

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    Mute Austin Rock
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:41 PM

    Sick and tired of this dysfunctional blight on humanity yes FB and all who sail in and on it. They are only doing the right thing when there is outrage at their irresponsiblibilty in checking/correcting its users abusive hatred towards the rest of humanity.

    13
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 11th 2018, 6:49 PM

    @Austin Rock: Why don’t you move to China and enjoy the lovely state regulated Internet?

    39
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    Mute Daniel Donovan
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    Jul 11th 2018, 7:36 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: People won’t be happy until the Government is in their homes, watching your every move.

    23
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    Mute Andrew
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    Jul 12th 2018, 1:34 AM

    Worst Jobs in History – Facebook content moderator

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    Mute Daniel Doran
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    Jul 12th 2018, 10:07 AM

    Oh look our little Marxist in conservative clothing again!

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