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ON A CLEAR day, a hike from Benlettery to Ben Gower – two of Connemara’s Twelve Bens – reveals a lunar, barren landscape.
These mountains used to house rare and delicate species of liverworts, spore-producing plants that lack a vascular system, botanist Dr Rory Hodd told Noteworthy. He studied communities of these plants as part of his PhD research on Irish mountain vegetation at NUI Galway.
At this site, only two or three patches are thought to survive. “It’s still hanging on, but probably much diminished… It’s very stark to see the bare rock and soil, in a place that was covered by dense heather not that long ago.”
Overgrazing is leading to devastating ecological impacts across a number of habitats in Ireland – particularly the uplands.
A different rare, endangered liverwort species is thought to be entirely lost from Benbaun, another of the Twelve Bens. This was one of just two Irish localities in which it was known to thrive and as far as Hodd and his colleagues can tell, “it’s gone from there”.
Instead, the researcher said there is “devastation – rocks, and in between really small grass that’s suffering. It’s been grazed down to nothing, bare soil, it’s a very sad scene”.
Most of these species only grow on north-facing mountain slopes in the Himalayas, northwest Ireland and Scotland. “Because they are so restricted, they are very vulnerable and if you have any disturbance, such as overgrazing in this case, they are very quickly damaged,” he explained.
Hodd added that overgrazing damages the heather which these species depend on, so they can’t grow or function. Additional damage occurs when sheep trample the vegetation, knocking out rocks that might be shading the liverworts.
“Most of the Irish uplands are overgrazed but in Connemara it’s probably at its worst due to historical policies.” It is one of many factors contributing to the biodiversity crisis, according to the botanist.
As part of our OVER THE HILL investigation, Noteworthy visited several areas where overgrazing was referred to in government reports as having caused damage. Based on in-depth interviews with farmers, ecologists, campaigners and academics, as well as field visits, we can now reveal:
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‘Excessive damage to the land’
“Overgrazing is a subjective term,” Pádraic Fogarty, campaigns officer with the Irish Wildlife Trust told Noteworthy. On a hill or any piece of land with farm animals, the fact that it’s grazed at all will mean that there are “no trees” or “natural regeneration of vegetation”.
“That goes for pretty much everywhere in Ireland,” he said. But the term overgrazing is generally used when talking about “scenarios where really excessive damage is being done to the land”.
He added: “When you’re overgrazing to the point where all you can see is bare soil, you’ve destroyed the plant life…You’re just really desertifying it.”
Most farm animals eat vegetation very low to the ground, “which prevents it from flowering, seeding or offering anything to pollinators and other insects that depend on it”, according to Fogarty.
“You’re completely destroying the entire community.”
Overgrazing has also restricted sensitive species to inaccessible cliffs, added botanist Hodd. Tall herb species and rare arctic-alpine species are present on our mountains, but “restricted to a handful of ledges that the sheep can’t access, as they’re unable to handle the grazing pressure elsewhere,” he said.
Another impact of overgrazing is that it “is rendering habitats more vulnerable to invasive species,” said David Smyth, director on the board of the Native Woodland Trust.
When there is constant disturbance to ecosystems from overgrazing, the land is “more exposed and not able to regenerate. So invasive species will be able to establish more readily,” he said, mentioning rhododendron as an example of something that is not grazed by animals and takes over.
“Our national parks suffer from overgrazing, which is a mind blowing fact when you think about it – that we have animals for production in our national parks that are supposed to be there for nature.”
Overgrazing by deer in woodlands was recognised as a “huge problem” by Hodd. “A lot of our native woodlands are overgrazed,” agreed Fogarty. In these woodlands, “everything from the ground to the height of a deer’s mouth has been eaten”.
Ireland has almost the lowest forest cover in the EU, covering just over 11% of our land in 2020, of which just 2% is native woodland. Our forests also had the largest area (4.5%) suffering “damage caused by wildlife” in a 2020 European report which stated that “some herbivore species can pose a threat to the regeneration of forests”.
Wicklow Uplands: ‘One of the most damaged’
When it comes to overgrazing, the uplands in Ireland are among the most impacted, according to many experts that spoke to Noteworthy.
Irish upland habitats are in poor condition, according to the latest National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) report on the status of habitats protected by the EU Habitats Directive, published in 2019. Peatland habitats – including wet and dry heathlands (open habitats commonly dominated by heather) and blanket bog – are in bad condition, and overgrazing is mentioned as a threat for each of these habitats.
A stretch of peatland close to the sources of the rivers Liffey, Dargle and Glencree, near Kippure Mountain, was identified as “suffering from overgrazing” in the Wicklow Mountains National Park Management Plan in 2005. The investigation team visited the site, where bare peat is still present.
Blanket bog can be badly affected by overgrazing by sheep, said Dr Catherine Farrell who is employed by the NPWS. Farrell is project manager of the LIFE on Machair project which received €5.7m in EU funding last November.
Management Plan Map: Areas marked in orange are “suffering from overgrazing”
Farrell’s research has included assessing the condition of peatlands in the River Dargle catchment of the Wicklow mountains which is part of the Wicklow Mountains Special Area of Conservation (SAC). The catchment covers almost 180 km2 and its peatlands include blanket bog and wet heathland.
In a recent paper, Farrell and colleagues found that the overall condition of peatlands in the Dargle catchment was bad, with “ongoing erosion and degradation”.
She wrote recently that the main pressures here come from historical overgrazing, the effects of ongoing grazing practices, ongoing drainage and burning as well as increased recreation use.
When in good condition, peatlands store water, helping to regulate river flow and reduce flooding downstream, Farrell told Noteworthy. Intact bogs also house rare specialised vegetation which supports rare species such as hen harrier and red grouse. However, she added:
“Wet peat stores carbon, but if it dries out, it emits carbon into the atmosphere. Rain that falls on top of mountains can literally wash off bits of peat, which head down to the river with negative effects on water quality.”
“If you see erosion, bare peat and gullies, it’s a sure sign that something is wrong,” she said, adding that cracks in peat lead to peat slipping down at either side of them.
The Dargle catchment area in Wicklow is “one of the most damaged blanket bogs I have seen so far across Europe,” said Dr Guaduneth Chico, an environmental scientist at Nottingham Trent University who is researching the impact of livestock on 19 blanket bog sites in Europe and the Falkland Islands.
Most uplands are overgrazed not just in Ireland but also in the UK and Spain, he said. His research so far has indicated that, in Spanish peatlands, overgrazing by livestock is increasing erosion rates by four.
Chico plans on using camera traps in Wicklow and other Irish sites to assess how many sheep or deer are present and “whether erosion would happen without the livestock”.
We asked the NPWS what actions have been taken to address overgrazing in the Dargle catchment since publication of the 2005 Park Management Plan, but did not receive a response to this query.
Working to restore peatlands
In the west of Ireland, peatlands are being restored as part of Wild Atlantic Nature, a nine-year, EU-funded LIFE integrated project (IP) focusing on 35 blanket bog SACs from South Galway to North Donegal.
“There are many threats to blanket bogs, one of which is overgrazing,” said Derek McLoughlin, project manager with Wild Atlantic Nature. This project will run up to 2029 and aims to facilitate the delivery of the aims of the Habitats Directive, focusing on blanket bog, but also looking at climate, biodiversity and water policy outcomes.
The effects of overgrazing will vary from site to site, he said, with some sites quite resilient to heavy grazing, and others that are really very sensitive.
“We’ve got about 55 blanket bog SACs, generally along the west coast, and ultimately, nationally, we’re not meeting our objectives in terms of the conservation of these [habitats].”
Loughlin explained that Wild Atlantic Nature is working with 800 farmers on a pilot basis using results-based payments, whereby farmers get a higher payment for higher ecological quality and can improve their payments through actions.
Donegal Coast: ‘Unsuitable grazing regimes’
Overgrazing doesn’t just affect the uplands. It is also damaging machairs – unique habitats of species-rich grassland only found in the northwest coasts of Ireland and Scotland.
This leads to erosion and loss of habitat as well as rare species, said Farrell, LIFE on Machair project manager.
In its 2019 report on Irish habitats, the NPWS notes that the condition of machair is “inadequate”, with pressures including “ecologically unsuitable grazing regimes and disturbance”.
In Donegal, within the Gweedore Bay and Islands SAC, overgrazing is affecting parts of the Gaeltacht regions of Lunniagh and Derrybeg, according to NPWS 2015 conservation objectives. The investigation team visited the area and confirmed that the effects of overgrazing, including erosion and very low, tight grasses, are ongoing.
People have been farming these species-rich grasslands for three to four thousand years, said Farrell, but “the level of grazing needs to be right”.
Though grazing issues vary from site to site, she explained that signs of overgrazing include tight sward (collection of grasses), need for supplementary feeding, erosion around feeders and potential to contaminate water, as well as loss of biodiversity.
Ideally, she said, cattle or sheep should be put out on machair “at a low intensity, or an intensity that doesn’t cause damage” after September, when flowers have blossomed, pollinator plants have been out, and breeding waders have successfully bred.
LIFE on Machair, which will run from 2022 to 2028, has been developed to help address these issues on coastal systems, finding solutions through working with landowners and communities, including the sites at Derrybeg and Lunniagh, Farrell told Noteworthy. The aim is to ensure people and nature are supported mutually, she said.
“It is time for policy and payments to be restructured to support farmers to work with these systems and get them back to health, or else we will lose these special areas,” she added.
Sheep peaked at 8.9 million
Though Ireland has a long history of animals grazing in areas such as the machairs, it wasn’t until the 1800s, when large estates brought in a lot of sheep, that “the first major” damage was done “in our hills”, explained Wild Atlantic Nature’s McLoughlin.
A big change in land-use policy came with the advent of the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), the European Union’s agricultural policy, in 1962, when payments for sheep were based on numbers of sheep.
“This gave rise to a really large number of sheep. This was an outside force that was irresistible for a country that had massive unemployment and a major rural decline,” McLoughlin told Noteworthy.
Policy changed again in the early 2000s, when farmers were no longer paid per number of animals and plans were introduced for each commonage, in many cases recommending reductions in the number of animals.
“At that stage the damage was ferocious in many areas,” said the Irish Wildlife Trust’s Fogarty, with many needing no animals in order to recover, but “that didn’t happen”.
The total number of sheep peaked at 8.9 million in 1992, falling to 5.2 million 25 years later in 2017, according to the Central Statistics Office (CSO). The latest national sheep census by the Department of Agriculture from 2020 identifies 3.8 million sheep, of which 1.1 million are on mountains.
“In the uplands,” said Farrell of the NPWS, “sheep numbers have been reduced, but we might need to take grazing livestock off altogether for the vegetation to recover completely, or to change the grazing regime, but that would have to be assessed on a catchment or a sub-catchment basis.”
But not everyone agrees that overgrazing is still a problem in the uplands, with Vincent Roddy, president of the Irish Natura and Hill Farmers’ Association telling Noteworthy that it “wouldn’t be a big issue at this stage”.
“It was an issue 20 years ago, but the biggest problem might be undergrazing [now],” he said, adding: “Grazing is an essential part of managing the uplands. Without it, we won’t have biodiversity and we run the risk of wildfires that are uncontrollable. From an environmental point of view, the cheapest way to deliver sustainable ecological services is through grazing of livestock.”
With a lot of the uplands in Natura 2000 sites, “there are fairly restrictive rules in place”, said Roddy. Despite this, these “habitats are stagnating”, he added, and “farmers on the hills are very frustrated with the fact that they are being blamed.”
“We have to pay for what we want,” said Catherine Keena, Teagasc Countryside Management Specialist. Upland farming is “a tough life. There is not much money there. It’s a hugely ageing population.”
Keena pointed out that payments through agri-environmental schemes of the CAP, which try to achieve “sustainable grazing”, are worth less to farmers than the basic payments (Pillar 1 of the CAP), “so for some people farming sustainably won’t be worth their while.”
Some areas need ‘no animals at all’
Though not everyone agreed on the extent of current overgrazing, most experts said that while certain habitats need some level of grazing to exist, others need none.
Within ecosystems, it’s important to retain a mixture of habitats with a diversity of species performing different functions, said Farrell. Certain habitats – such as grasslands and heathlands – “need grazing”, she said, but others – such as peatlands – don’t.
Dr Barry O’Donoghue, Head of Agri-Ecology with the NPWS, said Ireland has “a significant proportion of habitats at an EU level which need to be grazed”. For example, he said, if grazing was to cease entirely on heathlands, the habitat would revert to scrub and then woodland, with loss of species that are associated with heathlands, including butterflies and birds such as curlew or merlin.
Although it is “still a bit of a taboo at the moment,” said Fogarty, “some areas need to have no animals at all.” For instance, “blanket bogs are not capable of any grazing at all by any kind of farm animal. They’re not designed to have farm animals on them. They’re just not adapted to it,” he said.
“If you want a greater diversity of habitats and vegetation types, you do need some kind of grazing,” agreed botanist Hodd. “But at the moment everything is so overgrazed, that anywhere that’s undergrazed is providing a refuge for things, so it’s very tricky to decide what’s overgrazed, what’s undergrazed, what’s perfectly grazed. It’s very subjective.”
In addressing overgrazing, seasonal management of grazing also is important, according to McLoughlin of Wild Atlantic Nature.
In general, he explained, “there would be opposite seasonal management between machair and blanket bog”. This means in summer peatlands would be grazed but machairs wouldn’t, and in winter the opposite would happen. But the number of farmers in a commonage – sometimes over 40 – makes management more complex, he added.
He also said that the type of animals grazing also makes a difference, with lighter breeds of cattle, such as Galloway, Dexter, and Droimeann, well adapted to the hills.
Sheep are more selective, whereas cattle tend to graze on most vegetation, leaving behind “quite a good diversity” and opening up areas for sheep to graze on, thereby reducing grazing intensity in others, he said.
When it comes to fire risk, cattle also provide benefits by grazing on purple moor grass, molinia, which tends to dominate the hills as dead litter in spring and summer, and catches fire easily.
Fires in uplands and protected areas are becoming an increasing problem, most recently destroying habitat used by critically endangered breeding curlews in bogs in Co Galway.
Virtual fencing a ‘game changer’
Since 2020, the Agri-Ecology Unit of the NPWS has been implementing a pilot in which farm animals are fitted with GPS collars which allow farmers to keep them inside certain areas and outside others via an app, without the need for physical fences.
As an animal approaches the perimeter determined by the farmer, the collar emits a warning sound. If they cross it, they receive a small electrical pulse, explained O’Donoghue of the NPWS.
The technology is being piloted on four farms on sensitive habitats and peat soils, as part of the NPWS Farm Plan Scheme, which aims to support biodiversity on a field-by-field basis using a results-based approach, explained O’Donoghue.
Since this scheme launched 16 years ago, about 1,000 farm plans have been included, with an average investment of approximately €2 million per annum.
Virtual fencing allows grazing levels to be managed, while also allowing farmers to keep animals out of dangerous areas, he said.
“It’s been a complete game changer for us as farmers,” said Eileen Condon, who is trialling virtual fencing on her Galloway cattle – who she thinks of as “foot soldiers for biodiversity” – in the Knockmealdown Mountains, Co Tipperary.
“We’re able to utilise parts of the hill for the benefit of our own enterprise, as well as for the benefit of the environment. It has opened areas to us where we can have the animals. Before it, you just couldn’t put a physical fence up, it would have been completely impractical and also not respectful of our neighbours.”
The technology allowed for targeted grazing on molinia, “one of the most rapid conductors of wildfire spread on open moorland”, added Condon.
Farming for ‘a level of wildness’
For Gerard Walshe, a part-time farmer who runs a 22 hectare farm near Moycullen, Co Galway, “there’s a certain love of the land” that you have in yourself. “You have it in your DNA,” he said while walking across his farm.
Walshe keeps a dozen Belted Galloway cows “in the right balance [that is] manageable for the land area”. He likes to keep a diverse range of habitats on his land, including blanket bog, grassland and woodland which grows on an esker (a type of glacial deposit) on his farm.
“There is a balance – animals can be kept and a level of wildness can happen.”
While walking along a boreen next to his house to a soundtrack of chiffchaffs, he pointed out that many farmers have abandoned the adjoining lands, but that this has led to an increase in bird species over the years.
Trees in particular need to be recognised for the “nature value” they provide and “considered back into the landscape”, he said.
“Cattle don’t prevent birch, holly, hawthorn, coming up. If this wasn’t grazed, small trees wouldn’t get a chance to establish – to my mind cattle help places to rewild and trees come into the uplands.”
Connemara: Grazing for pearl mussels
Overgrazing doesn’t just affect the land, it affects the rivers and water quality of a catchment, for instance when loose soil and sediment gets washed into rivers.
The Pearl Mussel Project, a results-based EIP (European Innovation Partnership) program, encourages farmers, researchers and advisors to work together to improve water quality and habitats in eight catchments in the west of Ireland.
The freshwater pearl mussel, which can live up to 140 years, is an endangered species that, when present in high numbers, indicates high water quality, but influx of sediments, changes in river flow, drainage, and slurry or fertiliser are putting the mussel’s reproduction at risk.
Tom Keane, who keeps over 120 mountain ewes in the Dawros River catchment in Connemara, is taking part in the Pearl Mussel Project.
When he was growing up, the river was full of pearl mussels, trout and salmon, he told Noteworthy. Numbers have declined a lot over the years, but he said that there are quite a few pearl mussels now.
While walking across peatland and grassland on his farm, checking on newborn lambs, Keane pointed out the oak trees, hawthorns and mountain ash that can “withstand the winds”.
“A lot of people cut all the trees. I don’t know why. You have to have trees on your land in the summertime for shade for sheep and cattle, in winter [for] shelter, plus they are nice on your land.”
When it comes to grazing, he rotates his sheep from one area to another. He has a feel for how many sheep the hill can sustain: You shouldn’t “put too many sheep on the hill – you sort of learn yourself.”
It’s challenging to keep sheep in this area, he said, but he loves the wildness of the land. “You couldn’t get a better place to farm.”
The investigation team also visited the northern end of Doolough, in Mayo, within the Mweelrea/Sheeffry/Erriff Complex SAC. In this protected area, “some of the bog, heath and grassland habitats are suffering from overgrazing at present,” according to a 2021 NPWS report.
Here, the blanket bog has been overgrazed for years, said botanist Hodd. What remains is vegetation largely made up of tussocks of mat grass [Nardus grass], which is avoided by sheep because the leaves are really rich in silica, he explained.
We asked NPWS what actions are being taken to help address overgrazing at this site, but did not receive a response to this query.
Despite some areas still being overgrazed, a nine-hectare section at the northern end of the lake has been fenced off as part of the Pearl Mussel EIP’s work in the Bundorragha catchment.
There was historic overgrazing on this section as it was used by sheep to access the hill, said Mary McAndrew, West and North West Catchment Officer with the Pearl Mussel Project.
“It never got a break to recover” and mat grass was taking over, she said, but thanks to a targeted approach with the help of local farmers, vegetation is starting to come back. “The difference over one or two years is phenomenal.”
‘At the cusp of change’
“We have to acknowledge that there is a problem at the moment in how the uplands are managed,” said Dr James Moran, lecturer in agro-ecology at the Atlantic Technological University.
When it comes to protected sites, “there’s a lack of clarity around what the conservation objectives are for these areas in terms of overall land use,” he said, highlighting the need for a locally adapted, targeted land-use program that takes into account and promotes diversity of habitats.
Almost 98% of the 439 SACs in Ireland have conservation objectives listed on the NPWS website. A Noteworthy investigation last year, however, found that over 100 sites only had generic conservation objectives in place, while virtually no sites have management plans, well below the EU average.
The government recently promised an investment of an additional €55 million to the NPWS, doubling its current budget, and the recruitment of 60 staff.
We approached the Department of Agriculture to find out whether any changes in numbers of sheep or cattle are planned to reduce grazing pressure, but – in spite of multiple reminders – did not receive a response to this query.
Experts such as Moran and McLoughlin see the scaling up of results-based projects that work with farmers, such as EU LIFE projects and European Innovation Partnership projects, as the way forward.
Ireland’s draft CAP (2023-2027) – submitted to the EU Commission – includes a new agri-environmental scheme, which will see the roll out of so-called “cooperation projects” in eight areas “of particular environmental importance”.
These projects will take a result-based approach and target 20,000 farmers across all the blanket bog SACs in Ireland, explained McLoughlin. While “it remains to be seen exactly how it will go”, this is a “huge step”, both “really exciting and really challenging.”
Moran is also “excited about this new development”. It’s to target “about 60% of the 35,000 farmers” in designated areas.
He added that “it still hasn’t received enough budget to cover all the farms” but hoped that farmers in these types of “bespoke, locally-adapted schemes” would increase to 50,000 – or around 40% of total farmers – by 2030.
“There’s possibility there – we’re at the cusp of a change.”
However, how the terms and conditions of the schemes are written will be important, he cautioned, adding that there will need to be “considerable facilitation” for cooperation in commonages, where in some cases there may have been conflicts in the past.
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Our OVER THE HILL investigation was carried out by Anthea Lacchia and edited by Maria Delaney. It was proposed and funded by readers of Noteworthy, the investigative journalism platform from The Journal.
You can support our work by submitting an investigation idea, funding a proposed project or setting up a monthly contribution to our general investigative fund HERE>>
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Unfortunately a lot of these empty houses will be in areas where there are few jobs and few amenities. So for these houses to become options for a lot of people proper investment would be needed in rural Ireland.
Holiday homes for the wealthy
Lots of empty Holiday Homes in west Donegal.
Assel. Is it a crime now in this country to a few euro more than your neighbour. I didn’t realise we live in a Communist country.
Changes in planning laws to get people to live above retail units would help. All these restrictions about wheelchair access and fire safety certs means that a large slice of potential living accommodation is remaining empty..
True, but ‘In Dublin there are 7,995 vacant houses and 16,321 vacant apartments.’ This should not be allowed, it’s a disgrace.
If the people are long term unemployed just give them a free travel pass to get to the big cities whenever they feel lonely down on ghost estate territory.?
Problem solved.(partially)
Better than having them sleeping rough or paying hotels and guest houses around Dublin.
RMcG, yes a lot are in remote areas but as the article states over 24,000 houses and apartments in Dublin enough yo house all those homeless in Dublin. No figures given for Cork, aGalway etc.
Its got on the backs of the poor.
I’d like to know how may houses are in or tied up with nama.
Interesting to see the such amount of red in Donegal, Mayo, Galway, Kerry….I wonder does it include holiday homes cause I know for a fact there are many houses in places like Connemara and west Mayo that are in effect holiday homes.
I’d say you are correct.
However this is the journal and having this explainable fact in the article would take away from the misleading title
I’d say you are wrong.
I actually clicked on and read some of the report.
“There are 230,056 unoccupied residential properties (excluding holiday homes) across the state
(Census 2011); almost three-quarters (73%) are houses and the remainder are flats / apartments (27%).”
Because Noonan gave tax incentives to developers to build in thsoe areas. Now they are ghost estates and the developers are rich. Thanks Noonan.
I live in mayo ballycroy.. It’s 11 thousand hectares with about 50 people living there.. A lot of people have died and their houses are vacant I know of 10 at least.. I had to immigrate that’s a given.. a lot of people with great heritage have died out..
Noonan wasn’t the one giving tax breaks to developers.
2011 Cencus data, 5 years out of date.
On my dog walk rounds in Dublin 12 – about a 2Km radius from my own occupied gaff – I pass at least 4 definitely empty houses …… maybe there are more less obvious. On the SCR from Rialto to Kelly corner there are apparently (and very oddly given the rental potential) a few disused dwellings. Time to tax!
There is percentage of homeless people who choose to be homeless because they have been offered a house but wasn’t in the area they want to live ….. Back to the bottom of the list with you … And like in England there building homes were no one wants to live…
Yes, delighted someone said it . I’m sick to death listening to one’s whingeing about being homeless and saying how they were offered a house but it was too far away from their Mammy or their friends. If they really gave a crap they would take any house they got and give their kids some stability. Back to the bottom of the list they go. Furthermore I personally know a person who wanted a bigger house and was told she didn’t need one as she only had 4 kids ……guess what? ?? She’s expecting! #sickofspongers
5 three storey house on SCR numbers 1-9 left vacant since 2008. Seems there are belong to one owner purchased them as assets and not interested in renting. This is a total disgrace
Are they really suggesting that there are 23K homes in Dublin which are vacant? It seems crazy that this could be the case.
*Properties not homes
I can count at least 20 empty apartments just in our estate just by looking through my window, so 23K sounds very plausible
Everyone seems to think these are just being held on to by greedy, rich people. If you inherit a home in Dublin yes you may be able to rent it out for good money but after the government takes their exorbitant cut and you pay maintenance fees as well as the hassle of dealing with the tenants it’s sometimes not worth it. If there’s no mortgage it costs nothing to let it sit there aporeciating in value. If you want these homes on the market they need to incentivise it.
I think the average rent in Dublin is somewhere around the 1200 mark a month . If you own a property and can let it sit there empty you are a lot richer than most people . obviously there are costs involved but you can still make good money . sell it or rent it , don’t leave it empty .
You probably think the landlord gets to keep 1200. The reality is after tax and running expenses it is more like €500. For that money you could have a lot trouble ranging from general maintenance to neighbours fighting tenants. Some people hang on to property for family members when they are old enough too.
Right so, compulsory purchase orders and penalties for not utilising empty units. Theres already provision in the constitution for doing so.
Compared to the alternatives it will save the state money in the long run, rather than stuffing the pockets of landlords and hoteliers, or temporary housing at a quarter million a pop.
off you go, north Donegal for you. Force people to live where there are no jobs and you just create a lifetime welfare problem
Think its pretty obvious that you would start with units in urban areas dave. A bit of coordination and joined up thinking would go a long way here.
A lot of these homes in far flung places could be an option if there was proper broadband in this country.There are many occupations like IT work which are location independent but require a decent connection to the internet.
One of the key housing policy objectives of the last FG/Lab government was the socialist policy objective of driving as many private landlords as possible out of the rental market. This was successful as it is estimated that up to 1,000 rental properties are taken off the rental market every month. Anyone looking to rent a house will tell you that this has been a disaster for renters – firstly, with fewer houses to rent rents have increased, secondly, the latte drinking socialist classes always wanted ‘professional’ landlords – they’ve now got them and they’re called vulture funds who, unlike the private landlord, will buy and sell whenever it suits.
That is it alright seizing property off people is the freedom people fought for. The councils have the ability to compulsory purchase abandoned houses for years and failed to do so. Considering they haven’t done that seizing vacant properties will not help. Being vacant is not a reason for the state to take it away from somebody. Not uncommon for a person to be in a nursing home and have a house vacant for a number or years and wills can take over a year to sort. I’d be pretty annoyed if a house was seized under those conditions
I see you don’t understand how compulsory purchase orders work.
Oh, and….
“I’d be pretty annoyed if a house was seized under those conditions”
You’ll forgive me if I consider putting a roof over somebodys head more important than you getting annoyed.
If you want to make it all about the language I used let me clarify. I would sue the hell out of the government if they tried to seize a house with a compulsory purchase because a relative was sick and died just because it wasn’t in a timely manner. I am fully aware of compulsory orders work and it takes time and under pays the owner most of the time.
How would you sue the government when it would be acting constitutionally?
Connoly >You think the constitution allows for government to interfere with private ownership rights to provide housing? Please point out where. Don’t mix up the ability for compulsory orders for infrastructural projects as that is very different. You think the EU courts will allow it too? It will never happen.
“You think the constitution allows for government to interfere with private ownership rights to provide housing? Please point out where.”
Article 43.2 & 43.3- Private property
“The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing
provisions of this Article ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice.
“The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good.”
Let me know if you need anything else.
“with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good”. Very vague statement. How do you define “the common good” in a manner that would stand up in court? If I am being offered 300k for via compulsory purchase order for a house in Dublin, yet there are houses available for one third that price in lets say Westmeath, then is it not in the common good for three houses for be bought for 100k instead of three houses for 300k? When you take into account the cost of legal fees, and the time involved getting a judgement and possible appeals, you could be talking about years it to be resolved, and that is just for one house. Also, there are very few empty homes that are ready for people to be gives keys that are empty, so you could be going all that hassle for a home that needs to be renovated before anybody can live there, increasing the cost, and time again.
One house as the common good won’t wash. As I said the for state compulsory orders are only useful for infrastructural projects i.e. the common good. Seizing somebody’s property because you feel they are under using it won’t work. Why not just take houses off people who don’t need all the bedrooms in their house?
good point Kal lpers, its like forcing somebody to rent out a room in their house.
Ah, so you know more than the Master of the High Court, do you?
“Speaking on Claire Byrne Live on RTÉ television, he said the Constitution allowed interference in property rights where social interests required action by the State. He said that as a lawyer he was frustrated by the commonly held view that property rights were untouchable and that “you can’t go there”
Where does it exactly say that in the constitution, and what exactly does the interference allow? My previous point is valid, as there is no clear definition as to what the “common good” actually is, and its up to an actual judge to decide that, not you, me, or the master of the high court, who is not a member of the judiciary, and is not a judge. Either way, is the government prepared to go to court, and spend all that money in legal costs to buy a few houses, when it would probably be cheaper to build in a green field site?
“He said legislation could be introduced so the properties could be bought back at the price paid and used as social housing.” I would like to hear his fully fleshed out idea on this, what would happen in instances where a house might have been bought in the 1960s, and is now worth multiples of the price paid? This solution may give the government tens of houses, when they need thousands.
Connoly> I don’t know if you are just dim or deluded. The article you posted has nothing to do with vacant properties. So not the same thing and not applicable. You were talking about compulsory purchase of individual properties. The article is not about that. You are grasping at straws to say your idiotic plan could work when it is very obvious it wouldn’t.
Telling me what I meant. Good lad.
I’ll post the relevant part again…
“he said the Constitution allowed interference in property rights where social interests required action by the State”
I don’t need to tell you what you meant I just go on what you said. You still have no point and are too dim to see the connection
It would take a lot more than decent broadband to attract me to those desolate ‘far flung places’.
Banks own many houses in my small village , all been empty for a number of years. Up for sale but with houses prices still low and the new mortgage rules. No one it seems able to buy them. So they are just sitting there.
same thing happened in my village. Houses selling for 220k during the boom, took months to sell for 60k two years ago.
It would be interesting to see what % of those vacant properties across the country are a result of repossession and voluntary surrender of keys (due to inability to pay as many lost their jobs during the recession). Also NAMA have a pretty substantial property portfolio.
you know we don’t do voluntary surrender in this country. Handing back the keys doesn’t stop you owing the money
Kal, that’s exactly what a neighbour of my mum’s did when the husband’s business failed 5 years ago, they surrendered the keys to the bank, the bank subsequently sold it for 75k which was 25k less than what was owed on the mortgage. They still owe the 25, but the repayments are still a hell of a lot less than a mortgage of 100grand.
In my village , which I won’t name , it being the internet and all. It’s in s Offaly and there has been a 8 bedroom house which was once a b&b years ago. A developer bought the property , done it up , built 2 apartments, a 1 bedroom and a 2 bed. Apartment to the rear of the property. He also built about 20 houses to back of said property. These houses sold for 160.000 during the boom and now a few are empty owned by banks can’t even sell for 70.000. the 8 bed house and 2 apartments were up for sale by the bank for 250.000. I kid you not. Still empty but no for sale sign so I assume it’s still for sale. No property rise down here.
Many are probably handed back to the Banks. Huge money borrowed to build them in better times – the bank hasn’t a chance of getting their money back on them. There’s nothing down the country – no employment, business’s closing – rural Ireland is in a very sorry state with no prospects for the young & it will remain that way for years to come.
Also lots of very greedy people in this country. Of the landed gentry spoilt type with more money than decency
Or people that have not sat on their holes as a lifestyle choice. Worked hard all their lives. Raised children and used their retirement fund to purchase a small home in the country to visit in the summer instead of going on foreign holidays to locations full of welfare raised gougers getting off their tits on taxpayer’s funds. Yeah….greedy and spoiled…..
Who said anything about people who are lazy? ….I’m talking about another type of person that I unfortunately come across in work who look down on other people . Not sure what you’re ranting about but you obviously have an axe to grind with the poor. What’s wrong? …you’re easy pension from the government not big enough?
Plenty of lazy people, plenty of hard workers and plenty of people who’ve had everything handed to them due to their situation and source of wealth. Nothing’s so black and white.
Is this the gov setting the scene to provide evidence to let themselves introduce a tax on empty houses?
The only solution these useless politicians have for everything is to raise taxes, this ain’t gonna solve the homeless crisis. Many of the homeless people went homeless because of all the taxes introduced by these politicians associated with living in a house, raising the cost of living up to unsustainable levels for many, but our clueless politicians don’t see this, as varadkar said, “sur it’s only an extra 3 euros per week”, well its 3 euros probably 20 times over with all the taxes.
This agency was setup in 2010 and are now only identifying vacanct properties. No surprise to anyone when goverment policy was to decentralise department that housing stock was built in now forgotton rural towns. False election promises that regeneration would happen and jobs would be moved to these areas. Anyone who invested got stung by politicians more interested in short term political gain then any long term sustainable developments. Most now have to commute to Dublin spending hours traveling missing out on family life. The housing agency was tasked with promoting sustainable communities, how many have being setup by this agency and how many are comming on line. If the answer is none then this agency is adding to the housing crisis not carrying out its mandate. Another quango reporting the obvious as if it was news.
I remember people flipped out when the vacancy rate was running at 16% in Dublin during the boom. It traditionally runs at 10%. People went.on about how it was intentional to force prices up. The reality is when it runs above the normal is when houses are being built and drops below the normal when there is little being built.
Another reason we got so many vacant property is emigration, I use to work with vacant property a lot of the owners had died without a will / alone with their families overseas, or it was due to fees/taxes and the unknown families would just leave to rot.
For such a small country we should not put every thing in Dublin it should be spread out , our roads have improve greatly in the pass years,
JustMadeIreland, everything isn’t in Dublin and the reason Ireland works so poorly is lack of scale. Even Dublin is too spread out compared to most efficient capital cities. Spreading things out even more leads to dispersed capital expenditure meaning you end up spreading your investment too thinly and achieving very little. Ireland already has one of the highest rate of unique addresses in the OECD and one of the largest road networks per head of population. All this leads to is poorly maintained roads and poor services.
All successful industrial countries concentrate investment in cities, towns and villages to encourage scale and quality services. Incidentally the policy you advocate has actually been de facto Govt policy for decades. It hasn’t worked. It never will work. It’s just a fudge. In modern societies wealth is largely generated in towns and cities. Then it is redistributed. Ireland barely has scale as it is. We don’t need less of it. We need more of it. It’s called good planning.
But wait….this Headline doesn’t fit the NAMA or Tom Parlon narrative!!?!??
Interesting it is mostly Gaelteacht areas that have huge investment in all things Irish. €4 Billion this year will be spent in these areas on Irish and it’s like flogging a dead horse. Better invest in other more productive stuff like Tourism, Organic farming, etc. At least it might stop unemployment and emigration.
The housing crisis is exacerbated by the greed of landlords. #1916 and all its proclamations were a joke in the light of what we do to ourselves.
The housing crisis is largely due to the need for the international finance system to keep the market artificially afloat- Keeping empty houses off the market in NAMA, all funded by the taxpayer As usual we are looking at the symptoms rather than the disease.
Rather than waiting for some entity, with more money than sense, to bring broadband to remote areas of the country via very expensive infrastructure, why can’t some private operator seek Government / EU support to roll out a low-cost satellite broadband solution.
Such solution has to be cheaper and faster to implement than digging up the highways and byways of rural Ireland to lay the necessary cables.
The next Ice Age will be upon us before any Government gets its act together and delivers broadband solutions to kick-start some economic activity in those dying remoter corners of our country.
Rory if it was that easy don’t you think someone would have done it? The main problem in Ireland is that we have a small and largely scattered population. We still have fewer people than we did in the 19th century. The Govt strategy to deliver high speed broadband will work I believe because it is using several different ways of achieving this in partnership with the private sector. The reason it has taken so long is due to cost (scattered nature of the Irish population) and poor technological solutions. Thankfully technical and economic solutions now appear to be available. Satellite broadband is not a panacea and has strict limitations.
Just because they are empty does not mean they are not owned by someone
Not as extreme as ‘maximise your investment’ putting people on the street…
have your say