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Harrison Ford ejecting terrorist Gary Oldman from Air Force One during the movie, erm, Air Force One Youtube
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US AIR CARRIER United Airlines is currently the centre of some rather unwanted publicity, to put it mildly.
The forcible removal on Sunday night of an Asian man from a flight between Chicago and Louisville, Kentucky, went viral after a number of fellow passengers filmed the man screaming as he left the plane.
It later emerged that the man, who claimed to be a doctor, had been requested to volunteer to leave the flight and was offered a series of financial incentives to do so – up to $800 in fact was offered to the passengers who eventually left the plane, and United were authorised to go as high as $1,350.
Those passengers were asked to leave due to the plane being overbooked for its journey, and United needed to get four of its employees to Louisville in order to make their shifts for the following day elsewhere on the airline’s network.
But that doesn’t mean that overbooking is uncommon. It happens all the time on flights across the board, not just American ones. It’s perfectly legal (and mostly common sense), and it’s not unheard of it happening in Ireland either.
“As with all other airlines our flights can be overbooked from time to time,” a spokesperson for Aer Lingus told TheJournal.ie, when asked as to the airline’s policy on the subject.
This can result from operational disruption where a lower capacity aircraft is substituted for the one originally planned or sometimes, where a particular route (normally) has a high level of no-shows, bookings may exceed the number of seats available.
These instances are rare and in such an event we seek volunteers to travel on the next available flight and compensate the volunteers accordingly. Our procedure is to deal with these matters at the point of checking-in in order to minimise any disruption to our guests.
Meanwhile, when contacted for comment Ryanair was a little more to the point:
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“Unlike other airlines, Ryanair does not overbook flights,” a spokesperson said.
Leaving that aside, overbooking is apparently “something that most airlines do”, according to a source familiar with the subject, who nevertheless described United’s less-than-conciliatory approach to the situation as “bizarre”.
The US has the best statistics for this, with just 552,000 (0.09%) of travellers being denied the right to travel on their designated flights within American airspace in 2015.
Aer Lingus’ approach in such situations is, according to their spokesperson, to deal with the situation prior to check-in, before a boarding card can be delivered.
PA Archive / PA Images
PA Archive / PA Images / PA Images
Such a situation is known as ‘denied boarding’, and compensation for same is set out under EU regulation 261, with the money paid out proportional to the distance of the flight being missed:
€250 for all flights of 1,500 kilometres or less
€400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1,500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1,500 and 3,500 kilometres
€600 for all flights not falling under either of the above categories
Business flights
So why does overbooking happen? Well, normally such situations arise on business flights it seems.
“Business travellers change their plans very rapidly, meetings get cancelled or circumstances change, and often they just won’t show up,” says our source.
If you’re in a situation where you have 20 flights between a destination daily and 10% of passengers aren’t showing up for their bookings, the airline is going to keep selling flights.
Conversely, the issue is a lot less likely to be seen on a flight where a family has booked a holiday many months in advance – such passengers will almost always show up.
Domestic American journeys meanwhile, of which the now-infamous United flight was one, see situations that “are more akin to a bus station” the source says.
You’re talking an airport where United might have 20 flights leaving per day on that route, huge amounts of people showing up for flights they’re not booked on, huge amounts of people not showing up at all, and then security is that much less than what a European traveller might be used to.
So they won’t let you on at first, but as they’re pulling up the ramp and they still have space, they’ll take you on.
So, to summarise, it’s possible that an Irish traveller could find themselves on an overbooked flight, but not for the reasons seen in Chicago. And an Irish flier won’t be removed from a flight they’ve already boarded.
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My husband was transferred to a different flight with air lingus because they were over booked. In stead of flying to Shannon he had to fly to Dublin and they paid for the taxi down. He phoned me just before he got home (around 11/12 at night) and asked my to make the taxi driver sandwiches and put the kettle on for him.
Just a quivk note that the flight in question was not overbooked, it was full to capacity. The 4 United employees were not booked on to the flight. They had been on standby and this was the last flight of the the day that they could get. United Airlines could gave bought them flights with another airline during the day but opted not to. Would have saved themselves millions.
@Scundered: The majority of airlines overbook by anywhere from 10-40% depending on numerous factors. If the practice was outlawed you can expect sharp increases in the average ticket price because they’ll have to make up the revenue from having the plane only 60-90% full.
@Shane Corry: ryanair have the cheapest flights and don’t do this. It’s a total con and sounds like they’re too lazy to just manage their shit properly. Imagine if this was a seated gig and you arrive, and then get told to go home because they thought you might not show up and have sold your seat for a second time to someone else. You’d be peeved. Can’t believe this is a common legal practice
It makes perfect sense. They make more than 100% capacity so if you reduce them to max 100% capacity they’d have to make up for that lost revenue with increased fares.
Like the article says, it mainly affects business passengers. It’s basically a statistical problem. If they do it right only occasionally would they have to deny a person a flight and in such a case they’d have to adequately compensate them. It happened to me on Malaysia Airlines and I got meal vouchers, a better seat and connecting flights that got me home almost at the same time.
Ryanair don’t do it because they may have high passenger numbers and may deem the extra redtape around compensation as too complicated and costly. You can but standby tickets for them though
I don’t think that you can cancel a flight with Ryanair. You can only change the flight for a fee. (Time, name or missed departure fee).
The example with United is that they offer fully refundable or changeable tickets (mostly used by business travelers). They will buy 2 or 3 tickets at different times and then move the ones that they don’t need for a later date etc. Happens quite a bit for those with a changing schedule.
@Jake Orb: Not true Jake. If you buy a refundable ticket (more expensive of course) and you cancel your ticket, then you get refunded the money. The airline loses that revenue. Point to point budget airlines like Ryanair are a different story, but the full-service airlines you can buy fully refundable or transferable tickets.
@Shane Corry: Do the airlines not receive more money from overbooking flights ? Are the seats not sold twice ? Only asking as you seem to know about the subject.
@chiara mullally: ryanair have cheapest flights, biggest con, you can get just as cheap with many other carriers. Irish people are brainwashed into thinking nobody is cheaper than Ryanair.
@Pippa Maloney: not necessarily the case. By overselling they try to ensure as close as possible to 100% of seats filled. They only make money if a non-changeable, non-refundable person doesn’t show up and they resell that seats.
@Shane Corry: no the airline won’t lose any money as when a passenger doesn’t turn up he/she loses all they’ve paid except tax. So the airline, having sold all their seats once, when they find replacement passengers for those that didn’t turn up,they’re actually selling the same seats twice thus making double money for some seats. At least that’s how I see it.
@Coleen: That’s only in the case of non-refundable ticket…
If you book a refundable/changeable ticket and you don’t show up or change that ticket last minute to another flight, the seat that is now free on the ‘current flight’ is lost revenue if they don’t fill it. Empty seats cost them money. Overbooking helps to reduce the chances of empty seats. The US based airlines seem to be overly aggressive in their calculations though.
As it is a changeable/refundable ticket, they will have to accommodate that ticket on another flight (where they could have sold that seat to someone else) or refund the passenger.
@Sean: You may get a refund depending on your ticket type. Airlines overbook for multiple reasons – hub and spoke operations frequently result in no shows as an incoming flight may be delayed due to weather, technical, air traffic control, etc.
@Jake Orb: Not true ! Airlines can tell you by flight and day the percentage of no shows. An aircraft that departs with an empty seat has failed to sell a perishable product. Failure to maximise revenue means that higher fares will apply in the future to passengers who travel.
@Shane Corry: Nope. Tickets are paid for and not refundable. The 10%-40% of people that won’t show up paid for a flight and that’s money in the airline’s pocket.
Only revenue they’d lose is on the overpriced sandwiches :D
From the CEOs email, the plane was boarded and then the workers appeared at the gate saying they needed a flight. Pretty haphazard tbh. It would certainly put me off flying United.
@Tony Gordon: exactly the reason this is a big issue. This is a bizzare situation. He was given a legal sit therefore it was a last minute incompetence of UA and their scheduling. The plane is full and good to go. They could’ve and should’ve find alternative way, in fact it was a 5 hour drive. They chose to bully the paid passengers. Shame on UA, shame on Communicator awardee Oscar Munoz CEO. And to the airport security, if this happens to your relatives see how you feel. Just think, if this happened to be a black guy. #newunitedairlinesmottos, #boycottunitedairlines
@Tony Gordon: if he was european they would of mentioned it. Or if he was from texas , africa , australia , poland ,Ireland i would of expected them to mention it. Its a fact ,nothing more ,nothing less.
@Patricia Ellis Dunne: I totally disagree, a mother heading home to her kids, a person late for work, it doesn’t have any bearing on the matter at hand. Everyone was a paying passenger with the same rights as a doctor and no one is more important or had more right to be there than the other.
@worldpeace: I think race, colour, creed, gender are irrelevant. It has happened to me and it is one of the facts of life. Captain’s rules apply on aircraft and ships – I get annoyed when plans go awry, bus strikes, air traffic control, weather but I try to calm down and get over it. If I get bumped – I find airlines look after you well if you are reasonable with them.
The airport police seem to be getting away scott-free: they were the ones who used excessive force and violently removed the man. What are their names, what investigations are happening with O’Hare law enforcement, are they suspended or are they still free to be violent towards the public?
#newunitedmottos
My flight was over booked to oz with emirates from Dubai and I was offered a 5 star hotel with breakfast dinner tea and as I was on my honeymoon they gave us free flights return to oz for the following year..
@Martin Flood: Because it may be relevant to why he was selected for violent ejection. Being a medical doctor with next day hospital work commitments is not an obvious low priority criterion for his going to the bottom of the list. Are you in a position to tell us why you think he was selected and others not?
@worldpeace: the thing is, if he had been white, that wouldn’t have been mentioned, even if dragged out in the same manner, the guy had no ill treatment up until that point, but when he gets chosen then everyone quick to suddenly decide it MUST be because he is Asian. Which is of course ludicrous and a very obvious play of “the race card”. Gets more media exposure then.
@Scundered: The first few video that came out doesn’t show the mans face, the ones they’re showing in the local news doesn’t show his face nor mentioned his race. The people screaming and reacting inside the plane and the action of the security extracting this man is what caught everyones attention.
@Martin Flood: I think it was mentioned because he was both a man and Asian. I’m sure if it was a Russian woman they would have mentioned that too. If he was a black man and they pulled that stunt there would have been riots across America
Reminds me of a shaggy dog story, not sure how true it is, about a pilot in the US whose surname was Gay. Apparently he took advantage of a free crew flight, but the flight turned out to be full and they had to ask him to get off after boarding. The attendant came up to his seat and said “are you Gay?” to which he replied “yes, I am”. She said “well I’m afraid you’ll have to leave the aircraft” at which a guy across the aisle stood up and shouted “hey, I’m gay too, they can’t throw us all off!”
@Pseud O’Nym:
I simply don’t trust airlines and especially Aer Lingus who cancelled my American flight last October and to date I haven’t received any compensation despite completing their online complaint form 4 times and being informed that is being escalated .
This EU regulation is just being ignored .
Ryanair doesnt do overbooking my arse. I was on flight where all seats were taken, including spare flight attendants seats and still 4 people were standing. Not sure how this was sorted, there was no looking for volunteers, no one asked me anyway. After 40 minutes and visit from ground staff, some people left the plane, others were reseated and off we went.
A passenger as was the case of this person that already have pay his ticket should never be remove from the plane, specifically in a case like this that the airline is looking for a space for their own staff is a problem created by the company and they should solve it without any problem for the passengers, in a world full of computers they are unable to realize that they are overbooking a plane? Please give a break…
Now the use of force because he refuse to leave something that he already pay for? That is the most bizarre and horrendous action against any customer why they didn’t sent their staff in a different plane?
You should see what is happening in the hotels. Worked in a hotel that normal practice was to overbook by 20 rooms. Funny enough we would quite often end up with rooms to sell by the end of the night. All of the hotels have overbooking policy. Maybe with exception of 5 star hotels.
Scandalous. There is no incentive to not be a “no show” if plans change, at best you’ve to jump through hoops for a tiny refund. Guarantee 50% refund or flight tokens through an easy online button press and the airline can open up the seat again. Everyone wins.
Sad that there’s not more regulation around this kind of profiteering. If someone doesn’t show up they keep the money don’t have to waste food on them and plane is lighter, it’s already a win, but greed knows no bounds.
Ryanair can put you on standby. Basically you go to the gate and hope someone doesn’t show up. When I did it there were seven people on standby and we all got on the plane
This case was extreme example and was completely the fault of the airline. The man in question was ticketed, checked in, allowed to board with an assigned seat and was on the plane. He wasn’t denied boarding. He was denied transport, which is totally different and with the correct lawyer could take them to the cleaners.
It was poor last-minute planning that they needed to get the 4 united crew on-board so that they could staff a flight the next morning. It would have been cheaper to send them in a taxi or rental car than pay thousands in compensation to passengers (you can get up to 1300 dollars for being bumped). Also the 800 million fall in value of the company this morning wasn’t really worth it… idiots! I’ve never liked flying with them and avoid them if at all possible. I won’t fly with them at all now.
Ask anyone that was sitting on the tarmac in Lyon for nearly 3 hours after The Ireland v France Euro championship match last June because of overbooking. Took nearly 3 hours before Michael OLeary could be contacted( as he was out on the gallops with his horses!) so he could give some poor soul €300 and a hotel with a flight later. Micro managing LIANAIR!!!
I don’t want to rattle anybody but that was a scene in Airplane, a hysterical passenger was slapped around the place. I hope we don’t have to live through Jesus Christ and the sacred gourd…
Airlines use to overbook but they shouldn’t then where are the consumer rights?…. there are billions of computers and they may solve this problem on line and in the worse if cases at the desk before the passengers are disturbed, they exist thanks to the passengers therefore they should be respected
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