Skip to content
Support Us

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

KFB

PDFORRA: Rule forcing premature retirement of experienced soldiers makes 'no logical sense'

The annual conference of PDFORRA, which represents 6,500 military members, is taking place in Killarney.

DEFENCE FORCES members who joined after 1994 must leave after 20 years if they haven’t been promoted to sergeant – which the organisation which represents rank and file members says strips the ranks of experience.

Mark Keane, president of PDFORRA, which represents more than 6,000 Defence Forces rank and file personnel, said the rule will deplete the military’s already struggling junior ranks. 

The rule means that those who have joined after 1994, and have not reached the non-commissioned rank of sergeant in 20 years, must resign. 

Figures released to PDFORRA show that the pace of recruitment is not keeping up with the amounts of resignations.

In 2020, 533 people were inducted into the permanent Defence Forces while in the same 12 month period 636 left. This translates as a net loss of 498 personnel over a five year period.

If the rule regarding post-1994 contracts is maintained, that could see 1,400 people leave the services in 2022 said PDFORRA.

Speaking at the organisation’s annual conference in Killarney, Keane called on the government not to discharge post-1994 personnel who are both medically and physically fit and wish to remain in service. These men and women are needed in our Defence Forces, he indicated.

“It makes no logical sense to discharge both medically and physically fit personnel from service,” he said.

“While Government will point to the need to have a healthy turnover of staff, current rates of enlistment and discharge show a net loss of approximately 500 personnel over the course of the last five years. This is simply unsustainable.” 

Keane says a change in the way soldiers live will ensure that the personnel will remain fit and healthy for frontline military service. 

“PDFORRA recognises the difficult nature of the work undertaken by our members, but also recognise the changes to lifestyle and medical and physical fitness that has taken place since these contracts were introduced in 1994.

“Government has recognised these changes across the wider public and civil service and elongated the careers of individuals in these areas,” he added. 

Clarity

Keane explained that clarity is needed for the personnel who have been left in limbo in regard to their futures. 

“Many are already leaving the Defence Forces as the economy begins to pick up and other employers are recognising the value of having former Defence Forces personnel.

“Security of tenure must be provided if we are to retain the invaluable pool of experience held by these personnel.

“I call on Minister Coveney to act in the best interests of the State and recognise the contribution made by these personnel to the overall national effort, as, if he applies the current terms of enlistment at the end of 2022 it will be a year that will potentially see the Defence Forces lose in excess of 1,400 personnel, as the average loss in approximately 600-700 per year without forced retirements.

“If forced retirements are imposed there will be a rolling loss coupled with these compulsory discharges that will decimate the Defence Forces.”

Pay review body

Separately, PDFORRA also called on government not to impose a pay review body on its members. It said that such a move would be in contravention of its members’ wishes.

It said that any recommendations of the Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces which potentially impact on the pay/allowances and welfare of its members should be fully negotiated with the representative bodies, prior to coming into effect.

PDFORRA general secretary Gerard Guinan, said: “Members of the Defence Forces fought long and hard for the right of representation, and continue to fight to be allowed to affiliate to the Irish Congress of Trade unions.

“We are not going to see Government at the stroke of a pen negate that right for an equivalent body reflective of what exists in the British Armed Forces which has not been shown to be effective.

“PDFORRA can point to numerous reports by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body that illustrate the ineffectiveness of that process, as it relates to retaining personnel in service.”

The representative body has also called on the Minister for Defence Simon Coveney to respect the findings of the European Social Rights Committee and the recommendations of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe to permit it to affiliate to the union ICTU.

 Guinan added: “PDFORRA, well in advance of the most recent pay talks, highlighted to the Minister the disadvantage that would be suffered by our members if we were to be excluded from ICTU prior to pay negotiations commencing.

“Despite what others may say, this is not about being unionised or the right to strike, which the Association has reassured military management and the Minister will not happen, it’s about being able to influence pay negotiations in some manner.”

President Michael D Higgins will address the conference later this evening. 

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
14 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mick McGuinness
    Favourite Mick McGuinness
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:06 AM

    The call will go unheeded by NRA paid Politicians who wouldn’t even change their minds if it was one of their own kids. Then again no fear of that happening as they go expensive private schools.

    162
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Radek Warchola
    Favourite Radek Warchola
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:33 AM

    @Mick McGuinness: that is so true.

    58
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Furey
    Favourite Paul Furey
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:59 AM

    @Mick McGuinness: there are 50 Republicans refusing to agree to any changes and 73 million Americans who are ok with this as they voted for trump and his cult. Clinton brought in some legislation but guess who reversed it…..

    66
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Eamonn O'Hanrahan
    Favourite Eamonn O'Hanrahan
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 12:06 PM

    @Mick McGuinness: I do reckon that they would change their mind if it was one of their own kids.

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jack Creegan
    Favourite Jack Creegan
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 12:35 PM

    @Mick McGuinness: The NRA is no longer in a financial position to pay off politicians-not since 2016 when they went bankrupt.
    The second amendment is more influential now and is supported by some of the population.

    Raising the age to 21 for semi auto rifles sounds sensible as is for pistols.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jason Walsh
    Favourite Jason Walsh
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:46 AM

    There is no reasonable reason for a person to own an automatic rifle. A hunter only needs at most a double barrel shotgun or a single bolt rifle.

    103
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Furey
    Favourite Paul Furey
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 11:02 AM

    @Jason Walsh: unless you’re an American. Or Swiss, as they have the highest ownership of all types of guns with zero gun violence as they are not Americans.

    50
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Favourite Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 11:16 AM

    @Paul Furey: The Swiss are a special case. Almost all of those guns are military weapons kept by reserve soldiers it’s just that nearly everyone is a reserve soldier.

    71
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Bathe
    Favourite John Bathe
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:38 AM

    Ah Mitch McConnell… “this has nothing to do with essy access to Firemans… its mental health, schools” etc… Jesus wept…utter bollix…

    99
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Richard
    Favourite Richard
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 4:48 PM

    @John Bathe: I’d stop fighting them on the “it’s mental health” point. I would double down on it, agree and then put in rules that block access without significant checks, forced waiting times, forced training etc. Just pretend it is mental health and make it WAY harder for someone to do that again. And to be fair, I can’t see a healthy person going on a rampage.

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Brian Henoll
    Favourite Brian Henoll
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:07 AM

    And I call for myself to win the lotto.

    38
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Craic_a_tower
    Favourite Craic_a_tower
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 10:18 AM

    @Brian Henoll: it would actually be reinstating a law they had before that was allowed lapse. After the ban expired sales of assault rifles shot up to levels it was never at. You are letting your ignorance show

    32
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fergal McDonagh
    Favourite Fergal McDonagh
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 12:33 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: it’s you who’s displaying their ign0rance with your unnecessarily aggressive comment. Quite sad really.

    25
    See 5 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Craic_a_tower
    Favourite Craic_a_tower
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 3:33 PM

    @Fergal McDonagh: yeah somebody making an ignorant joke about the cause of people dying is just innocent fun and I am the bad guy

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Stephen Harper
    Favourite Stephen Harper
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 7:37 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: Put the shovel down .!

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Stephen Harper
    Favourite Stephen Harper
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 7:37 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: Put the shovel down..!

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Brian Henoll
    Favourite Brian Henoll
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 7:44 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: think you are missing the point but have a nice bank holiday weekend.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Craic_a_tower
    Favourite Craic_a_tower
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 7:58 PM

    @Brian Henoll: no you missed what you said as a bad joke for something they did before as if it is not possible. Ignorance

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Finn Faulkner
    Favourite Finn Faulkner
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 11:09 AM

    Tougher requirements yes, but the sheer number of weapons in circulation is mental. The pride in gun culture and ownership. Gun shops need to face more stringent legislature, weapon manufacturers need to be brought to heel. And the NRA given a serious financial slap. Isn’t there supposed to be a gun buyback program?
    But this is all down to the split in the senate and Mitch the Birch.
    On the Twitter there was a thread on families and individuals displaying their vast collection of firearms. As though they are proud that they have enough weaponry to halve the population of their home town. Sick.

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Favourite Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 11:03 AM

    Even if he got all of the measures suggested passed (he’ll be lucky to get any but still) it would do nothing to address the culture that makes people think guns are for defence and want them. They are tools for killing which is something few would want to have.
    OK there are guns which aren’t powerful enough to kill, they are toys for playing games with.
    The first question anyone should have to answer when buying a gun is “What do you intend to kill with this”.

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute v39e84kK
    Favourite v39e84kK
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 3:23 PM

    @Steve O’Hara-Smith: If I was forced to live in Detroit tomorrow I’d buy a gun. It’s easy for you to say because the chance of a guy coming into your house looking to rob you and silence witnesses is much less than it is in some parts of the US.

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Favourite Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 8:37 PM

    @v39e84kK: I ón the other hand would not, I have no idea how to use one effectively and no desire to learn. Cameras and locks would be my approach there. Here there are five dogs live in the house.

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute A Kelly
    Favourite A Kelly
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 2:00 PM

    Biden can approve an air strike in The Middle East, or send weapons to Ukraine, but can’t limit the availability of guns in the US itself.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute v39e84kK
    Favourite v39e84kK
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 3:17 PM

    @A Kelly: Yes, the separation of powers in the US largely leaves law making up the congress. That’s a good feature of their government.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Handsome McWonderful
    Favourite Handsome McWonderful
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 1:49 PM

    Jaysus, you can’t even buy a beer until you are 21 but you can buy an assault rifle. WTF is wrong with that country?

    31
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute A Kelly
    Favourite A Kelly
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 2:02 PM

    @Handsome McWonderful: the US is so obsessed with “freedom”, they are willing to imprison kids in school so nutters with guns can roam free!

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute A Kelly
    Favourite A Kelly
    Report
    Jun 3rd 2022, 2:02 PM

    @Handsome McWonderful: the US is so obsessed with “freedom”, they are willing to imprison kids in school so nutters with guns can roam free!

    7
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a comment

 
cancel reply
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds