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A PERMANENT TSB mortgage customer says that he has been offered €2,700 in compensation after being overcharged by €21,000.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Drivetime programme, “David” says that the offer is “simply not good enough”.
He says that, had the problem not been spotted, his family would have been overcharged by close to €120,000 over the course of the mortgage.
Permanent TSB has written to 1,372 mortgage holders to inform them about “serious failures” in the management of their loans.
Up to 22 people lost their homes as a result of being overcharged. A Central Bank investigation found that some customers may also have wrongly ended up in arrears with some in unnceccesary legal proceedings.
David said that “luckily” he did not lose his home but that being overcharged had a significant impact on his family’s lives.
He says that they were overcharged by a total of €21,000:
We have two young kids, €320 a month is a massive amount to be overcharged by. It’s nearly €4,000 a year, that does impact on your life.
David told the show that he has received the letter from Permanent TSB outlining the issues and compensation offer. Seeing the numbers on front of him brought the cost home, he said.
“It’s not until you look through the letter and you see the vast amount of money that’s involved in this.”
Had this not been rectified we would’ve been overcharged, in our case, I think it’s between €110,000-€120,000, that we would’ve been overcharged by over the term of the mortgage.
“People probably look at it from the outside and say, ‘It’s great that they’re getting a lump sum of money back’, but the money that we’re getting back is our money, it’s my money that we’re getting it back.”
“We’ve been offered just over €2,000 compensation for that, which is just, I feel, wrong.”
CEO of Permanent TSB Jeremy Masding has apologised to the affected customers and the bank has said that it’s putting a “comprehensive redress scheme” in place.
David says that he’s not happy with the offer made to him but does not know how to dispute it.
“Apparently, there’s meant to be a committee for people who aren’t happy with the compensation that they’re getting. I was informed by the bank yesterday that that committee isn’t for me, I’m not one of them, it’s only for people who’ve lost their homes.”
“Luckily, I’m not one of those people who lost their home but we were wronged nonetheless and we feel that the level of compensation we’re being given is not good enough.”
Permanent TSB says there are two separate appeals panels for those who aren’t satisfied with the redress being offered. One of those panels is for customers who lost their homes or are involved in legal proceedings, the other panel is for all other impacted customers.
“Customers can accept the redress and compensation offered and still appeal if they wish to do so,” the company adds.
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Get a good barrister and sue the bast**ds for stress, trauma and emotional distress.
Exactly.
You stalking me ‘Reg’ ? Hope the young girl whose picture you lifted doesn’t mind.
We need each other Normy.
Besides who are you if you don’t have at least one stalker?
Not Reg.
Reg lie all you want, you were found out. ; )
Ah Norm!
I’m not Reg- that was never found out cos it’s not true.
Hey Reg if you wish to deny it fine by me but the proof is there. Jane/Doogle Knows /Reg whatever you like to call yourself just remember when posting a comment don’t copy and paste to your other account aswell.Spelling mistakes stick out. ; )
I am not reg. I copy from comments when i couldn’t be ars ed. Hard to keep up with some people here- they type like monkeys on speed.
You know what the hourly chargeable is on a ‘good’ barrister… Not to mention the fact they wouldn’t take your case. All the good litigators are sitting on the other-side of the table representing the institution who’s annual legal bills run into the millions…
Can I have some of what your on Norman! Do you really think I have noting else to do except post here with multiple accounts?
My fault Reg… sorry
‘Reg’ not at all your busy with your business and two kids.But yet you do post under multiple accounts.I don’t care just find it sad tbh.
You’re actually losing it Norm.
barristers not allowed to charge by the hour. Many of them do an enormous amount of work on a no foal no fee basis. I agree with the advice to obtain legal advice. There are options.
‘Jane’ loosing nothing you were rumbled get over yourself. ; ) Now have a good one, I have better things to be at than responding to a muppet with multiple accounts.Nite nite.; )
I agree with Jane. You’ve lost the plot Norman!
This is the tip of the iceberg .. How the banks are going about the ppi compensation scheme should be brought to the fore .. The arrogance of the banks in relation to how their actions affect people who pay their wages is mind blowing …
They have learned nothing from the last few years ..
I think they’ve learned a lot…….ie they can get away with anything
And yet the share price went up after last week, How messed up is that.
And the amount of fu€ks the executive Banks give………… 0
Sue the fxxkers for all you can get. You can be sure if the shoes were on the other foot they would come after you for every cent.basxxrds
Surely if they’ve been overcharged by a quantifiable amount – and they have – then that entire amount should be refunded and THEN they get the compensation?!? Why do banks still have the ability to make it up as they go along?
They have the ability because of Me,You and Everyone else in the Country letting them away with it…Dave Cork, writes ”They have learned nothing from the pass few yrs”…* They have …WE HAVE NOT…Its Our own FAULT , for letting them do this …. Here’s a better Question – Why can’t the IRISH PEOPLE stand as ”ONE”? ….Do we hate each other that much?????….It seems we have become nothing but armchair commentators, with an Authority on everything ,each and every one of us….Yep RED THUMBS…here we go…. :-)
Because what they were overcharged doesn’t go into thin air – it comes off their mortgage so they actually owe less. They then have a shorter mortgage or a smaller repayment every month from now on. But the compensation has to be realistic – but not a windfall either. I’ve a feeling realistic is going to have nothing to do with the comments on this article.
So – realistically, the €2,700 should be a goodwill compensation, their mortgage would be adjusted down by the €320 per month…
…then they get their €21,000 refunded to them in the form of discounted mortgage payments for the course of their mortgage??
As Norman said, surely this is a breach of contract. Maybe PTSB are trying to pick off the individuals before they get organized and get what they are owed?
The bank is demanding victim impact statements. They are trying to bounce people into accepting whatever they want to offer.
Cheers
As an accountant there is a word for this attempted theft if not downright theft. There are many good solicitors out there who will fight this. And forensic accountants who can inform people just how much they were overcharged. This is the tip of the iceberg other banks have done similar I have no doubt
20k would be fair to me….
“there is a word for this attempted theft” What is it?
For overcharging read theft.That is what it amounts to, simple theft. To think that no one is answerable is not right. What is it about the banks and the fact they can get away with any wrongdoing on ordinary people. Wrongdoing on the Revenue is another matter.
The PTSB should be taken for every cent that can be forced out of them.
Give that man back HIS €21K and every other person the full amounts due. Theft, plain and simple.
I will guarantee if the customer owed PTSB the money, they would harass & hound them for it. Double standards.
22 people lost 5heir homes because of the banks actions.
Ehhhh – even though it was overcharged, it still comes off the mortgage, so the customer ends up with a shorter mortgage. They haven’t actually suffered a loss. So once the compensation is fair, then everyone is a winner.
Big do you understand how a mortgage works? and the implication of a higher interest rate.Remember interest rate and principle are not the same thing.
Why aren’t they being refunded the entire overcharged amount plus interest and a hefty penalty?
look , these poor people are dealing with a crowd that have absolutely no moral compass. even with this revelation they will try and screw people! just hope that there is some legal team out there that have some morals and excellent media reporting so that every one can see what these muppets have done!
how are they going to put a price on the loss of life and those that have been made ill by all this?
The banks are ruthless bast@rds every one of them!! Hope these people take them to the cleaners and back. What the banks are offering as compensation is a joke. Give them back their houses
Take legal action. Love to see the working man make a win!!
useless bunch of see you next Tuesdays. ….Have to cover a direct debit for tomorrow but as they have no out of hours banking machines I asked for a small temporary overdraft. …Wouldn’t even consider it till I can deposit it in the morning. changing bank ASAP
Bank breaks contract with customer by robbing customer!. Calls it mistake offers apology and penny’s in compensation ???.
Customer breaks contract with bank!. Bank sends endless letters stating contract terms. Then threatening legal action letters. Customer offers penny’s in compensation to bank, banks tell customer to shove it and takes house ???.
If the bank over changed the family €21000 then the family shoulder at least get back €42000 or reduce mortgage capital owed by €42000.
If banks can destroy peoples lives for breaking contracts they should have to make lives easier when banks break the contract. Fair is fair…..
Does anyone ever stop to think about the staff on the end of the phone dealing with the complaint? They suffer dogs abuse at the hands of the public and yet they themselves had no hand in the error. And this whole “I pay your wages” malarkey is appalling. You are the one who opened the account. Nobody forced you into it. Customers pay maintenance charges for the operation of the account. You wouldn’t walk into a shop and not pay for an item. The bank is a business like a shop is. They have to make money to keep operating. Do you tell the staff in a newsagents that you pay their wages?? And if you don’t like paying fees then close the account and keep your money under the mattress. And yes, banks make mistakes. Human error. Nobody is infallible. And while I realise how stressful something like this is, I doubt the bank did it on purpose. They hardly sat there going “we’re just gonna mess this up and screw the fact that we’ll have to pay out loads of money and deal with angry customers! My statement here may not be met with approval but Im just putting forward another view of things.
But Leah….They should at the VERY LEAST be refunded the full amount they were overcharged, yeah?
Think that is point. Ye know.
Ah yeah I agree with that of course.
“I doubt the bank did it on purpose” and yet when the ombudsman found against the bank the bank fought a court case against the ombudsman and lost.They then appealed and finally dropped the case.So yes they did do it on purpose only stopped when they got caught.
Fair enough Norman. I dont know the ins and outs of the case. Just know ppl who work in banks and I was just putting forth a view from the other side.
Leah by your logic if the staff don’t like how the public deals with them, they should quit.
Well I guess thats up to them. Just know that working in customer service is very difficult. Anyway, like I said I was just putting forth another side of things.
Don’t like it leave, simple.If the organisation you work for treats their customers like dirt a backlash can only be expected.
What bank do you work for Leah? Thieves the lot of them. The point about bank charges is that it’s the wealthy that are exempt from them because they can maintain a daily balance of 3K in their account!! How is that fair! People already struggling are shafted with exorbitant bank charges.
@ leah richardson now this is a real bone of contention with me!! now before i start nobody should be hassled at work BUT only recently i commented about the absolute no regard for customers shown by 2 ptsb branches i do business in and the organisation i work for.
the NCW branch is supposed to open at 10am, just about everyday it is late opening and no apology but the worst is when it rains the staff will look out as the group of people wait in the rain and still they will open late! its like a game!
the branch on william street in limerick has got to have the most dower group of people working there that simply must hate their job! again, close at the drop of a hat during the day and will sometimes put a sign up and give an opening time that is never a reality.
i have given up many years ago complaining to anyone in these banks because nobody cares and i certainly will not stress myself , hence using this opportunity to give a little rant!
also , the way elderly customers are treated is also disgraceful, was behind an elderly man the other day that needed clarification over his account the staff member discussed the whole lot and the whole que could hear the conversation……and then we wonder why old people are mugged!!
so leah , you might pass it on to your management and maybe they would do some motivation and training! also, remember you guys have a job and from what i can see there isnt any of you run off your feet!
@ leah richardson human error!!! are you for real???
You don’t think there’s a world of difference in buying a newspaper for a Euro, and entering into a legal contract when you get a mortgage? The mind boggles.
Couldn’t agree more Ann! I’ve seen the same carry on in AIB
Quit and go where???? Ridiculous throw away comment!!
Here here Leah! Couldn’t agree more. Fair play for voicing an opinion that isn’t exactly popular
Great girl Sinead
‘Hear,hear’ ,Sinead .. Otherwise you’re treating Leah like a dog and that is not fair ..
I often wonder when I’m standing in a queue at the bank, and some nice lady comes over to assist customers using the new ‘fabulous’ lodgement gizmo, does she realise that that new gizmo is going to make her redundant in a few weeks? The carryon in the banking system for the last few years has been disgusting, customer services are now near laughable, then the charges for using my card…they are making me use my card( unless I have 3k on there all month long)..crazy stuff. But back to the original article..Dave should be recompensed the full overcharge and given compensation. Anyone that lost their houses should be reinstated on a similar house in a similar location, at the same rate their mortgage would have been today, and then some.
Extra compensation, for them and their families.
But Leah, this bank is the one that offers fee free banking. No maintenance charges! There is a huge ad campaign about it. So if their not making money from the current accounts, this forces the bank to make money elsewhere. Why people think they deserve something for free is beyond me? Like you said, you wouldn’t go into a newsagent and expect to get a paper for free, so why do people expect to have their accounts managed for free and have access to cash at any atm worldwide for free? You get what you pay for, and in this case people went for the cheap option and got screwed. Let the buyer beware. I do feel for the staff at the front lines as they will be the lowest paid and mostly only hired in the last 2 years so could have had nothing to do with the banking crisis. None of these staff would ever have gotten a bonus or a pay increase and still have to take the abuse on the chin. And for anyone saying to them that they should leave the job, I hope they would like to pay for their kids food and rent while they are out of work.
I don’t work for a bank. I have close friends who do. All I did was voice an opinion. Didn’t expect to be told to “pass it to my management”.
Ann I don’t work for a bank. I see your point though. I was just voicing an opinion and am allowed to do that. Sorry for your bad experience with banks. Thank you.
Filled out my forms months ago for Bank Of Ireland to recoup me on my PPI overcharge and silence has ensued ever since. Now imagine if it was me dragging my heels, they’d be all over me like a rash. I thought all this was going to change after their mishandling of all our lives in the run up to 2008. Beggars belief!
Christ’s sake, Journal do SOME proof reading why don’tcha? This is the third article I’ve read this evening with virtually incomprehensible portions in them. You’re sitting at a keyboard, it’s not hard labour.
This is what happens when you have ‘journalists’ banging out articles to get enough click bait to pay their wages.
“When a bank makes a loan to one of its customers it simply credits the customer’s account with a higher deposit balance. At that instant, new money is created.”
Bank of England, page 8, right column, top of page. http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneyintro.PDF
Now, that is Power.
You know we are in Ireland yeah? So proper, internationally applied rules don’t apply.
Is there a book of make it up as you go along rules? Or maybe another book called pay the bond holders back- how to get your money back after you loose the bet.
Jenni, upgrade your IQ
How many people have lost their lives because of these greedy baastards.
While the bank needs to look after these customers properly how does someone not realise that they are paying €320 more per month than they shoul be?
Victim blaming, well done.
No, it’s the bank’s fault but if it was me I would have noticed it. Plenty of online morgage repayment calculators online that will give you a ballpark. People need to take more care of their personal finances.
Of the 22 – 18 were not paying anything.
Of course this is the Sun in disguise and we need to blame the bad banks and govt… The result being we pay more.
Now if ‘Doogle Knows’ logs on we’ll have the trinity. ; )
Sorry Reg- i seem to have similar views to you and used a D(Google) pic.
And I ‘just’ happened to copy+paste your very words because ,I couldn’t be arsed to use my own,Reg ..
Hi Jane :)
When the banks lose the taxpayer also loses.
When banks are incompetent regular people suffer. Another reminder of why independent commercial banking for a profit is fundamentally flawed.
So allow the banks behave with impunity just because they were recapitalised by the taxpayer.They are returning to profit and should be hit accordingly for the damage they have visited on society.
Jason maybe that’s how you like things in Holland but here we like an independent commercial bank system, maybe the oversight should be strengthened but that is for the Irish legislators to decide, not expats.
Is that what you think we should like Rod_Ten? No, Rod, we would like a banking system that is answerable to the full force of the law when it rips off people.
Like Jason, i’m an ex-pat, and like Jason i use my real name, which validates our comments above yours, as you hide behind an alias.
I’ll second the contributions made by Jason and Dave (maybe it’s an ex-pat thing), I believe people want a banking system that’s fit for purpose, not the “independent until assistance is required” model that operates today. But that’s hardly in the interest of our corporate and political masters now is it?
I hope they screw the bank for millions.
I know people that were not getting tax relief on the mortgage interest, when they realised this they could only claim back 3 or 4 yrs even though they had been paying the mortgage for 10yrs. it was up to PTSB to inform revenue as part of the mortgage applications/approval. Be interested to know has this happened to anyone else.
Now the bank is taking the absolute piss
It does seem very low if, as implied, they have only been offered 23,700 for an overcharge of 21,000. The bank would have made more of a profit on the money during the overcharge period than they are giving in compensation.
I am presuming the outstanding mortgage balance is being restored to the corrected, higher balance also right?
Even if we consider the overcharge to be a genuine error the fact of keeping the €21,000 and offering a paltry some as compensation is ludicrous and offensive to any right thinking person. If I were to steal €50 from someone amd on being found out I very generously offered to give €2 as an apology would that be acceptable. The banks need to be brought to heel but unfortunately it does not suit government to do this. It will be interesting to see what this country will be in 20 or 30 years from now. Those of us still above the ground will look back on these times as the beginning of the end.
These boys are the real knackers,not the lads robbing cable!
What the bank don’t seem to be giving as an option is to sue them for damages,
Ha, we’re in the same room.
asl?
The customers were on tracker mortgages and CHOSE to change to a fixed rate! The bank were at fault in not allowing them to return to the tracker rate when the tides turned! Only 80% blame on banks! 20% was part gamble by home owners!
So the banking system is above the law Dave, interesting, is the DPP aware of this?
To all intents and purposes it appears to be Rod. What law was brought to bear on the banks when they collapsed the economy here? The only laws i remember enforced were Austerity measures so the banks wouldn’t have to bear any loss.
Does anyone know why the bank doesn’t have to offer back the full amount??
Banks are never made to pay for the misery they inflict on people. The people have to suffer. This needs to change.
Perm TSB apparently reluctant to show basis of calculation of compensation level by their own alleged experts. Demonstrates continuing lack of genuine goodwill, see also http://thebottomline.ie/desperate-measures-by-pressurised-lenders-on-tracker-mortgages/
Regulator shouldn’t be given too much credit, as Central Bank didn’t heed warning of Banks actions to fudge tracker liabilities 5-years ago. See also http://thebottomline.ie/desperate-measures-by-pressurised-lenders-on-tracker-mortgages/
I have taken an action against the bank for the return of the amount overcharged and for adequate compensation for the economic hardship arising from the overcharging. I am happy to discuss this matter with anybody who is concerned about this issue.
I am taking an action against the bank for the repayment of the money overcharged and the amount of compensation offered arising from the economic hardship caused by the overcharging. I am happy to discuss this action and any other possible action with anybody who is effected by this matter. My contact details can be found on http://www.lrf.ie
I am taking an action against the bank for the return of the overcharged amount and the compensation for the hardship suffered as a result of the overchgarging. I am happy to discuss this matter with anybody concerned about this issue. My contact details can be found on http://www.lrf.ie
I have taken a case against the bank for the return of the money over charged and for compensation for the economic hardship suffered as a result of the overcharging. I am happy to discuss this matter with anybody who is concerned about this matter.
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