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FINANCE MINSTER MICHAEL Noonan has said that any of the half a million householders who have not yet paid the household charge will see the fee added to their Property Tax liability.
Furthermore, households which have not paid the charge for 2012 by the time the Property Tax kicks in this July will see their liability shoot up by 38 per cent.
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However the addition of the charge to the Property Tax may offer some relief to those who simply could not afford to pay the €100 last year as a plan is being put in place to allow some low-income or elderly householders to defer the payment.
It is possible these arrangements would also apply to the unpaid Household Charge once it is rolled into the tax.
So we ask; Do you agree with the government’s plans to add unpaid Household Charge payments to the Property Tax?
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Minister of State at the Department of Finance Brian Hayes has said the Government has almost reached the limit of how much taxation it will impose on the public.
Personally speaking I HAVE ALREADY reached the limit of how much direct and indirect tax the Govt is screwing out of me and my family, while they pamper to the bondholders, the Troika and this nonsense of the promissory notes.
Those who try to control, who use force to protect their power go against the direction of the Tao. They take from those who don’t have enough and give to those who have far too much!
Tao Te Ching, The book of the way, Lao Tzu!
This is such a slap in the face to the Irish tax payer!!
Our visiting EU “partners” should be transported by mini buses !
May be then WE might feel we live in a real republic and not Animal Farm,
Don’t sart that crap with the Audi cars. They are not costing us anything. Audi sponsor every EU presidency and lend the cars to the relevant country. They’ll be gone in 6 months to the next country.
# Malachy Scott.. Malachy you are incorrect ! These Audi,s are new and registered in IReland
They are also RH drive , not much use in the most of the rest of the EU.
THe real point I am trying to make is we are dealing with Perseption , and many of our EU partners including Germany who think Ireland is doing very well and needs no extra help.
Lets show them a bit of austerity .
I
Malachy, there is another picture of the cars face on and they are definitely right hand drive. Also, I’m not sure but would it be possible to re register cars as new somewhere else when they have been used already?
Malachy examine the pics …. All the Audi’ s are rhd! I fail to understand your point that cars registered as new new in Ireland can after six months be registered as new again in the next EU state to hold the presidency ,
I have paid the household charge. I don’t see why others feel they should avoid paying their due. I’m willing to bet a lot of the people who refuse to pay are willing to take any social welfare they can get – take all, give nothing.
Revenues from the household charge will support the provision of local services. Internationally, local services are administered by local authorities and financed by local service charges. In Ireland, local authorities are responsible for, among other services, public parks; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets and street lighting. These facilities benefit everyone.
Doesn’t our income tax already pay for this service or is it just a means to nab homeowners who became unemployed and social welfare dependent?
No. The government changed the way local authorities are funded. Local services will be made available or cut in accordance with household charge/property tax payments in each local authority area.
Before the Household Chrage was introduced, what was funding the Local Authorities all along and the bins/water. They don’t have bins or water soon and get road tax, what will the tax be funding and why is central Government getting 35% of it?
I agree with the sentiment that there are people who take everything and are prepared to give nothing back. There is a culture of people who want everything for nothing. In the current climate we must all make sacrifices . It cannot go on the way things have been. We are now paying for the misuse of funds in the past. No matter what we say or do we have to move on and try and fix the problem instead of complaing about it. That will get us nowhere. We are where we are.
I didn’t pay the household tax and I’m not paying this one if I can help it.
And I am categorically NOT a scrounger or life long dole inhabitant.
Year on year my wages are cut, I’m asked to pay the USC charge etc, my mortgage goes up, I pay for my rubbish to be collected and I will soon pay for water.
I DO pay my way, I don’t cause the state trouble, I’m a good neighbour, I contribute rather than detract from our society – I am a decent person and I’ve had just about enough.
I am making my stand.
Sinead and Abbi.
When you get your first Revenue demand letter and the threat of interest charges and penalties together with a possible Court Hearing for tax evasion will you still be telling us that you are not paying or will you immediately become good citizens and put your digital device away for another time?
Your wages were cut, you pay for a bin, you pay prsi and usc. So in a nutshell, exactly the same as the rest of us! Don’t whinge about spending cuts when you’re encouraging people to avoid paying tax. It’s called an economy
Hi Michael, so far I have received nothing that references the Household Charge. Not one piece of correspondence has come through my letterbox. They are not even organised enough to contact me.
I’ll take my chances, along with the hundreds and thousands of others that have refused to pay.
And, you’re right, I might cave, I might not have the balls to see this to the end but right now there IS still fight left in me and I will maintain my stand.
@Con / JP- unlike you boys, I’m a realist. I’ve actually noticed that the country’s in a bit of trouble. I’m surprised you guys didn’t notice- it’s been on the news. So extra taxes are inevitable to get the country back on track. I’m prepared to do so. And without the crying you have to listen to on here. As for being in the pay of FG, sadly no. But I’m not proud. I’d take payment from anyone.
Maybe the gubberment should stop paying off bond holders and interest on Anglo debt and no new unjust taxes would be required? Interest on Anglo is over €3.5 billion this year that would pay for a fair few services.
I don’t understand this. The Household Charge Act is a different Act with different leglislation than the Local Property Tax leglislation. The Household Charge Act has been repealed which is why those who paid last year will not be billed this year and why the fines and charges are no longer building up on the Household Charge arrears. (They say they have capped the HC amount – how nice of them – but in reality it’s cause the HC Act no longer has force of law. So what I don’t understand is how they can add outstanding fines and charges from the HC onto the New Leglislation; in the same way I wouldn’t expect them to be able to put TV licence evasion fines or motor tax fines onto the new charge. Can any one advise how they are legally going to do this?
But they’re different Act’s different leglislations etc. There were waivers which reflected people’s personal circumstances in the HC Act and different buildings are exempt in the LPT. Different fines and penalties apply in both Acts. Has there been circumstances before where an Act has been repealed and thus had no force of law, then a couple of months later one Act was re-birthed but only so the defaulters could be reabsorbed into completely different leglislation? I presume they’re going to attempt to do this by way of the Finance Bill my question was how can they legally do it? Or as you put it Gareth how can they legally be ‘lumped in’ together?
They cannot transfer any outstanding charges from household charge to household tax, unless of course you sign-up to the contract for household charge first. Its all a game of confusion & fear. Don’t be fooled by anything gov says.
The irish tory party will find a way to get the money by hook or by crook.
If it is illegal to take it as the law stands,,,,,well hey ho,,,,they’ll change the law.
The labour party know its wrong to back them,but they dont want to lose their new found wealth.I cant wait until labour is in opposition.
Watch them eat humble pie for another 15 years at least…..
@ Anne Gardener, excellent post. From a narrow legal perspective, it is a misuse of law to use one law to enforce another. Legally speaking, each of the taxes is separate and distinct from the other. If the property tax was a lot more substantial, a legal challenge might have been made on the basis of that point.
The revealing thing was the requirement of a PPS number to register and to pay for the tax.
From a fiscal perspective, I see a property tax as a sensible and, if properly implemented with some reflection of means and capacity to pay, a potentially equitable tax. Unfortunately many households have been left in the position of being unable to afford to pat the tax, even by making sacrifices.
I disagree that in a modern society people should be expected to surrender television and Internet access. These are part of the democratic flow of information in our society even if RTE, our national broadcaster, has a predilection for errors.
The widespread opposition to the imposition of property tax indicates to me a growing disenchantment with our particular system of representative democracy.
As a general point laws are only successful and effective if they have the adherence of he general populace. Although I intend to pay the new property tax for as long as I can afford it, I am opposed to harsh measures against those who refuse or are unable to reply. If there is any retributive or Draconian element in the enforcement process, it may cause me to rethink my compliance. I dislike harsh Government which fails to empathise with the plight of those most severely damaged by the economic policies being pursued. We are a society and in these days of hardship we must look out for each other.
I did not vote for the Labour Party to hurt the people and I expect our Government and the Revenue Commissioners to respect the citizens of this country, especially those who have already paid a heavy price for the profligacy of the past.
So if some people paid theirs (like me) and other people didn’t simply because they didn’t want to they should get away scott free?
No way! Honestly, if the government WEREN’T looking for the money off the non-payers, I’d be looking for my refund!
You don’t get out of paying a tax because you’re having a tantrum. The government imposed a tax. Nobody liked it, but that’s how governments operate. I know that it was seen by many as unfair, but it’s the law, and if you don’t like the law of the land, run for office or get out.
Because it’s an unfair charge that nobody should have to pay in my opinion. There are better and fairer ways to get the money needed for these services!
In the 1990′s I paid the water charges (Approx. IR£275). Sometime later, due to mass evasion, the tax was reversed. We were told at the time that those who didn’t pay would be pursued. This didn’t happen. At the next general election campaign, I asked FF candidate Tom Kitt about getting a refund. He said “You can be assured you will not be left out of pocket”. I am still waiting. This is why I didn’t pay the Household Charge (as I’m clearly in credit) but also because it was not means tested and was voluntary anyway. They fooled me once, SHAME on them. If they fooled me twice this time, SHAME on ME.
question is where did all the stamp duty that people paid on their houses go to? what was it used for and also the council fees you pay whilst building a house. where does that go and whats it used for?the councils say its for roads and parks. Whats household charge for then/ property tax for?only to tax you again on the same property your after paying council fees and stamp duty on..its scandalous.if your council fees are used for roads what is motor tax for? i know people who paid over 40g council fees and government want more tax on that property for funding council.am i missing something here
Well said Gareth, I also paid mine and have called the local council regularly to complain about the fact that others seem to be getting away with it and if that was the case I wanted my money back. whether you like it or not it is a tax and the advantage that Ireland has over Greece is that the tax system functions and is by and large fair.
Petes and Gareth its not a tax it’s a charge, the tax isn’t coming in until later in the year. You get charged for your phone, electricity, shopping and many other services and goods that you use. You also get a bill to explain these charges. I have yet to see a bill explaining the household CHARGE and what services I am to be CHARGED for.
You didn’t have to pay it either. If nobody had paid it then nobody would have had top pay it. It’s people who bow to everything our pathetic government says that are the problem, this change should never have been brought in in the first place.
Come on politicians…. When are you going to learn there are no shortcuts. If you are going to bring in new taxes and charges… You must also put in systems to administer collections, review, accounting, etc. By forcing demands through in this type of manner will only bring undue trouble, waste of time and money.
Yes our government needs the money… But may I suggest, before I collecting such taxes… First put systems in place for such a tax and cut your absorbant salaries for the financial fortification of this country.
Katie…. I hope I am not misinterpreting your reply… But one would think it’s racist. However, being that you are of sound mind and intelligence. .. I will give you the benefit of doubt. Happy New Year.
stephen murphy “native irish” your obviously ignorant of the fact that paul mcgrath and philo were indeed native irish as both mothers were irish so you gave a cheap dig at katie
. just as a note on the whole racial thing and native citizens. i was chatting to a guy from finland some years ago and he was pointing out the similarities between what was happening in finland and ireland both with very small populations and taking in a large amount of immigrants, the effect of a 100,000 immigrants in the uk is not as much the same amount in our tiny population. so stephen and others lashing katie out of it what would say if the plug hadnt been pulled on the boom of madness and people were still flowing in at what point do you say we have to many immirgrants whens its 50/50 ????
of course ye will come back wit the old racist card and the irish in every other country but it would be better if we all shared the worlds resources and know how .it seems a contradict that ye want to only look after the people that come to our shores for help or a better life and neglect to help the remaining people of that country to have a better life.
Declan, the only reason why I commented about Katie’s original reply to my comment (which was deleted) is that she typed gibberish which could be understood to be stereotypical African bush speak. The fact that the message was deleted confirms that others tbought the same. In no way should Katie’s opinions (though half-baked) be sensored, unless they are disparaging.
marlon grand stuff.I didnt see her comment so im just going on what is there now.i assumed it was in relation to the video link which i thought was very interesting
And as for “murphy” i didnt see any racist comments ,all i saw was your “gold digger” comments which are out of order or perhaps you personally know the girl and are in a position to declare this!!
Any way pity i got distracted from the main point of the property tax.which i have fought and will continue to do so.best solution i seen on all this is a two state solution where all the people who want to pay for the bankers,bondholders and tds enormous salaries move to one part and all of us who want a fairer way and dont want to publicise these private debts move to another where we will pay officials a fair wage for the honour of serving their country
It’s not because we want to get away without paying it !! It’s because we’re sick of paying for other people’s mistakes and we cannot afford it !! What kind of people have we turned into that we just lie down and take every levy they put on us ?? This government has broken every promise they made us at election time and what’s worse is that we’re stuck with them for 3 more years ! Where the hell has our FIGHTING IRISH SPIRIT gone ? Has it emigrated with our young professionals forced to leave their home because of lack of jobs or is it that we’re afraid to show it just in case Michael Noonan sees it and we are taxed on it !!! To the lady at the top of the page boasting about not having to pay SHAMMING ON YOU !! You are a guest in our Country don’t run our faces in our own dirt !!!
If a majority of single-home owners couldn’t pay e100 per anum, the new bailout/home tax being 4 to 5 times it will fall flat on its face! Just as it should.
The Household Charge =Property Tax Property Tax =Household Charge everyone knew really it was a double tax on the same thing ,we like paying numerous times for the same thing in this country because im nearly sure we have paid for this already when we bought our house .Just another tax to rip any kind of savings familys might have left over for themselves after slogging their hearts out to keep this lovely newborn Fascist state on track clap handy clap handys until Noonan comes home Noonans got Billions for Banks not his own.Property Tax = Bonuses for County Councilers Bonuses for Civil Servents and last but not least Hey Buddy Bilderberg Bondholdrs and the odd pothole ..Pay UP Pay UP Suckers Do Not I Repeat Do Not Say No We May Respect You It Is Easy For Us When Ye Are Frightened Confuses Little Lambs For The Slaughter Yes Yes.Govenment ill make the hard decisions for ye because ye like misery and we will give ye what ye want because WE LOVE YE Suckers.
This is a great idea. It’s very important that those who try to dodge paying a tax are pursued relentlessly. Those of us who pay our fair share expect as much.
At the end of each year, every council seems to just piss away whatever money it can simply to get the same allocation the following year, if this was nipped in the bud there’d be no need for the charge at all!
Since the clocks went forward at the end of the year (ensuring only half days are required on site) how many people have seen new footpaths etc that arent needed! There’s where all the money is being thrown, and then taken off the tax payers for the same end of year finale the next year
What I don’t get , is how do people not realise how much we pay already ! The USC , VAT , PRSI! And the rest of it , plus the various Levies on utilities ,bank transactions, credit card levies,and just about any other levy that can be dreamt up .we pay far to much , what was funding all this before the HSC ? Vat at one point ,is the answer and now that has gone up as well ! When will the Irish people stand up and say enough is enough ? Bloated government spending has to be reigned in . a huge Negative energy exists over the nation ! Time to do something about it all !
my issue with this is that i have paid the tax along with many others; many of my friends have not; we need to majesty it equal for those who have paid the tax. I’m trying to help the country by paying all my taxes in full but it seems like i’m made the fool by paying.
Fully agree with Doo. It’s a fallacy that we have a democracy or a say in the way this tax will be spent. Many Councils have huge debts on their books and it is towards paying these debts, wages and swanky revamps of council offices that the money will be going to. Aoife I’ve always paid my TV licence but I have friends who havn’t. Do I wish them to be hounded so I won’t feel like a fool? Not at all. I don’t understand the begrudgery. If they paid up, pat kenny et al would probably have salary increases, there would probably be superior Fizz at the RTE Christmas parties, but I don’t think for a minute that the programming would be any better.
Anne, uh you mentioned pat kenny and now im thinking Joe Duffy, Marion, just overpaid rubbish, and for what? I pay tv licence too, just so I dont a get labelled”tax dodger” I just dont agree with this tax,it serves no purpose but to pay back bondholders. Services, pfffftttt. Services will get less money cause the Irish Government is handing over a few billion in drips and drabs with no returns. Everyone else is suffering, the government aint.
It’s not an unpaid tax, it’s an unpaid charge. You pay a tax for the benefit of the country. You pay a charge for services you receive. What services do we receive for this charge?
But of course; implement a flawed system, take ineffective steps to fix that system and then use the new mechanism to punish people who couldn’t afford to pay because the system was flawed in the first place. That sounds fair, legitimate and wholly reflective of the modus operandi of this government..
I at this point rarely comment on these kind of topics as the Irish will be Irish. (until the cows come home).
I don’t think there is another mentality that reacts to austerity in such a retroactive and underachieving fashion.
All talk no action.
And I don’t mean rioting in the streets but to see a nation stick together on issues such as the property tax.
If a vast majority proactively objected to this tax then at some point the government would have to reconsider.
But as this article proves…Objectors 0 : Government 1
Kambe, I can give you a job at the same rates as the dole – picking up rubbish and cleaning dog crap off the footpaths.
Send me your contact details and I will fit you out with a pair of gloves, a pooper scooper and a few black plastic sacks.
Jane, are you saying that your phone app somehow, without you even touching it, went and made TWO replies even though you didn’t want to? That is one seriously smart phone you have. Also, Paul, I think you’ll find that most people would rather have no job for €180 (or whatever the dole is) then clean up other people’s shit for the same amount of money. Anyway, maybe she spends all that free time learning things like painting or salsa or doing charity work?
Gearoid, if we take in any more scroungers to add to our existing lot we will never get out of the mess we are in.
I am all for people on the dole earning their money, charity work, sweeping paths, or whatever.
When I saw that the registration form for the household charge required a PPS number I realised exactly what the agenda was. I did register even though I knew I realised the cynical ploy involved.
I must say that I have real reservations and misgivings using the statutory provisions and procedures for one tax as a means of enforcing the collection of another tax. It serves to bring the laws and revenue collection processes into discredit.
The bigger issue is the legitimacy of a property tax. I happen to support a property tax if fair and equitable and when it is not imposed on the victims of the great residential property scam of 2001 to 2007.
In this country it is like many other things some people will get away with paying it while the usual suspects will have to pay. It is like certain perks in Social welfare. There are people with nothing wrong with them Psychophysically and they have bus pass.So my point is there will be some people exempt. If one has to pay all should pay.
This is a form of bullying. I will not be paying any of these trumped up taxes to cover the greed and corruption of this government. They have stolen €65 billion from the economy to pay of thieves who they must be closely connected with or why else would they beggar the country. Its long past time to dump the Euro and get out of the EU which is a bureaucratic nightmare. We have councillors, then TDs and then Senators and then MEPs all with enough advisors to to solve the nightmare and then we have the bureaucrats by the spadefull and they are duplicated in Brussels. Its unsustainable.
Any unpaid taxes or indeed fines should be taken from a persons state payments, such as social welfare, childrens allowance etc, why pay tax payers money to people who dont pay the tax they owe, easily solved, too many takers in this country
correct dave people cannot choose which taxes they would like to pay if they are unemployed take the payment from their social welfare payment incrementally
So it appears nobody can answer my question above. Yet I get a red thumb for asking it. Bit like asking a politician a simple question and getting every thing but the answer. Surely someone here knows where this money is going? Or are we just doing as we’re told yet again like good little citizens.
I wouldn’t worry about the red thumbs on here Martina some people just get bored and want to annoy people. The tax is supposed to go to County Councils and they in turn use to money but in the UK the tax is used for water charges, bins, electricity for street lights. The argument then is what about people in rural parts of Ireland who do not have access to these facilities and we will still have to pay for water and bin charges?
Most people on here obviously sit in caves and never venture out. Everyone else uses public services every day and these have to be paid for. And its not just about public services. If these monies arent generated it will come from the generous by european standards social welfare people clearly take for granted. If you cant pay, defer or seek the waiver. Yis are well able to use a keyboard…
The whole reason the household charge was brought in was to introduce the household tax. I know in the UK they have household tax but I don’t know how it is calculated ect. This isn’t an issue that will go away the reasoning of “I can’t or will not pay the tax” won’t stand unfortunately they will find a way to get the money of the people. People are on here saying things are unfair but yet no one is doing anything and taking a stand on the matter. It is a fact that there are some people who can’t afford to pay the charge or tax and will struggle for the next year if they are forced to pay. Something does need to be done but how is the big question.
The household tax will be scrapped after the next election. How? Each and every candidate in the next General Election will be asked if they favour household tax, yes or no. Only those who oppose it will have any chance of getting elected.
Peoples do not judge in the same way as courts of law; they do not hand down sentences, they throw thunderbolts; they do not condemn kings, they drop them back into the void; and this justice is worth just as much as that of the courts.”
― Maximilien Robespierre
As far as I am concerned … I have paid my property tax when I bought my house – 9% of an inflated price. If there was some allowance made for people in the same situation, there would have been alot less resistance and Hogan wouldn’t look quite as big of a clown.
Ah so all these legalised gangsters and fraudsters with their attitudes of taxing ordinary hard working people to the hilt is so that they can all get their new government cars and iPads for Christmas from all the tax !!!!! while children and families went without, ashamed and disgusted by these so called politicians who rob from the poor to give to the rich
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Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Measure content performance 60 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Understand audiences through statistics or combinations of data from different sources 74 partners can use this purpose
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Develop and improve services 83 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Use limited data to select content 38 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
Use precise geolocation data 46 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Actively scan device characteristics for identification 27 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Ensure security, prevent and detect fraud, and fix errors 90 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Deliver and present advertising and content 97 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Match and combine data from other data sources 72 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Link different devices 53 partners can use this feature
Always Active
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 86 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 68 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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