Fine to say that as a one sentence solution but in reality, everyone from the orange order to the boys scouts and classic car rally’s, gay pride and the lord mayors parade all count as a parade and need to notify the parades commission so you would need to ban specific organisations from parades which in a free democratic society wouldn’t work, or be legal.

Correct, ban all the bleeding marches, all these people are just trying to provoke republicans and unionists alike. Jesus half of them would not know the history of Ireland if it smack them in the mouth, they are all a bunch of bleeding trouble makers.

Fair point JJ but I meant a political / subversive / senseless parade obviously

Fair point JJ but I meant my comment regarding political / senseless / subversives parades that doesn’t achieve anything only unrest. It makes me cringe when I see both sides carrying themselves in this way and shudder to think how the outside world views Ireland as a whole.

Surely the “commemoration” of dead terrorists could be counted as an assembly to incite hatred and dealt with under that banner?

By tolerating loyalist marches through Castlederg? They already have done so. Nineteen times this year alone. Twenty, by this time next week. Loyalists haven’t followed the example though have they, by protesting against the only nationalist parade in the town in years.

Conan this isnt loyalists that are protesting, its IRA victims from the Castlederg area. The Derg Valley victims group will be holding a peaceful protest against this parade on Sunday.

Sinn Féin have led by example by re-routing the parade to stay away from the diamond area of Castlederg and so to avoid the methodist church and British centotaph in the town,however the Apprentice boys have been given unrestricted access to march through Castlederg town centre(a 62% nationalist town).The same Diamond area which Sinn Fein have re routed their parade away from has now been allocated to loyalist protestors. Sinn Fein are leading by example but they refuse to be walked all over.
The Orange Order holds 20 marches through Castlederg town centre each year without fail and loyalists throw the rattle out of the pram when republicans want to hold a single parade.

She is not asking for the parade to be banned, she is asking the organisers to call it off.

You can hardly compare Loyalist marches to a march commemorating dead terrorists who blew themselves up. The latter is an insult to the peace process and the families of dead IRA victims.

SF are incapable of leading by example. They are supporting and promoting a commemoration of the death of murdering terrorists, while spouting crap about the “peace process”. Please don’t mention them in the same breath as people who give leadership

Trevor, history has everything to do with The Tyrone Volunteers day march. It happens ONCE a year in different areas across the county. The reason it is in CAstlederg is because it’s the 40th Anniversary of an event in history related to the area. If republicans were only interested in stirring up tensions, why is this the first nationalist parade in the town since the mid 1990′s? Why do they not stir up the tension by protesting ANY of the HUNDREDS of loyalist parades in the town since the last nationalist one took place? Why did they voluntarily re-route this parade away from areas where unionists object to it passing, without being told to re-route it?

Conan, can you please explain how you can compare a celebration of terrorists who blew themselves up while preparing to murder innocent people to a rather silly but innocent celebration of the culture of one side of the community in the North?

I disagree with you Gráinne that the Loyalist parades are a silly celebration of culture; I think that objectively speaking they are usually bigoted incitements of hatred against the other.

However, I totally agree with you that it is ludicrous that Sinn Féin are supporting a parade to celebrate would-be bombing murderers, through the town where they tried to cause the deaths of so many innocent people. What exactly are they celebrating Conan?

Well, James, I do agree they are usually bigoted, but I’m not sure about “incitement to hatred”. I think these guys are just so caught up in their pathetic little fantasies about the past that they don’t even see how offensive they are being.

And no matter how bigoted or offensive they are, they’re not celebrating the deaths of terrorists and thumbing their noses in the faces of the people of Castlederg.

What I just don’t get is why SF is getting behind this. They have spend the past few years trying to tell us they’ve left all that behind and now they tear away the façade and show their true colours. Not that I thought they were anything other than unrepentant terrorist supporters anyway, but this leaves no room for doubt, so their credibility as a modern political party is gone out the window.

I have to say, I’m delighted to have been proved right. Next time a Shinner has the gall to knock on my door, I have something concrete to face him with.

Hi Gráinne, I agree that they are obsessed with past grudges. This article led me conclude that many of their celebrations of “culture” are in fact incitements to hatred:

http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/07/15/grieving-for-a-lost-supremacism/

Paul, you know nothing of me or my background. I’ve lived through enough to have made up my own mind. Ironically, despite having lived through it, I’m being sanctimoniously preached to by countless free staters who have probably never set foot across the border, let alone lived through years of abuse from the ruc and british forces.

I hear they’ll be displaying the citation from the Darwin Awards Cttee.

And the IRA didn’t target “soldiers who would kill innocent people”? These two Volunteers regularly engaged British forces. These British Forces massacred 14 civil rights protesters only 19 months earlier. As for Collins, most of those who died in Easter 1916 were civilians. There were hundreds. Collins and his men regularly shot unarmed men. So you are missing the point and missing it in some style.

I’d say Michael Collins would be turning in his grave if he heard you comparing him to these idiots.

Avoiding my specific points a tad there Gavin?

As a matter of fact Michael Collins sent men to kill my grandfather (a home ruler) — a witness appeared on the scene so they didn’t go through with it. Collins is widely recognised as a highly capable guerilla leader and influenced British Intelligence methods.
There is now a well-established state founded on the 1916 and subsequent struggles, so of course there are commemorations, but note that recently the Southern government has taken the mature step of recognising Ireland’s World War casualties as well.To take another example of an individual, Churchill, a great British leader, had a very mixed record in terms of casualties when critical hindsight is employed, and despite his wartime role his politics were rejected by the British in the post-war election.These are historical realities.
In this particular case, the North is under a peace agreement whose spirit is to avoid any provocation, so parades of this kind by either side are an indulgence — what positive contribution do they make to peace? Republicans are missing a chance to take the moral high ground. I suggest that the large vote for the Good Friday Agreement indicated that most people on the island would like to see peace and development placed before the endless cycle of commemoration and recrimination.As the march in question looks like going ahead, it will be interesting to see the content of any speeches made.

they are not idiots, they were young men who grew up with a completely life experience to most of the people commenting negatively about them. had michael collins been born in tyrone and not west cork you can bet he would have seen this as a natural continuation of the war of independence. if the brits want to ban this one then ban them all otherwise let the volunteers families have their comemoration, it wont be marching down any loyalist street.

Michael Collins didn’t plant bombs to kill innocent civilians. These morons were terrorists, and you are a terrorist supporter.

Conan, Michael Collins did not plant bombs in shops and cars and blow up innocent civilians. He lead a guerrilla campaign against the British and targeted their personnel.

You need to learn some history, man.

Brian, given Michael Collins’ track record, I find it very hard to believe he would have supported a campaign of terror against the civilian population of any part of Ireland. He didn’t engage in it when he was alive.

You throw out Collins’ name but you clearly know very little about the man.

There’s no denying that this is a commemoration of 2 terrorists who died planting a bomb which was intended to kill people.
Some may see them as Martyrs in the same light as Michael Collins etc. but I think you have to paper over a lot of cracks to make the connection.

Some of the unionist parades at least pretend to commemorate some historical battle victory while actually turning each one into a riot and letting the raw hatred show.
But surely the Shinnners could dress it up a bit?
The incident this parade refers to is in the living memory of people who will see it and as such is in bad taste.
No doubt there were horrible acts in the battle of the Boyne but that was a long time ago so we can romanticise it.
Imagine there being a parade in New York to commemorate the terrorist pilots who flew the planes into the twin towers? That wouldn’t happen.
A parade to commemorate those killed by unionists would be one thing but to commemorate 2 terrorists is just deliberately provocative.
Conan what were the 19 unionist parades celebrating exactly?

I’ve been free all my life they didn’t do anything in my name. They were cowards on their way to murder the innocent. Btw I think both sides engaged in this crap are as bad as each other.

Here we go again. “both sides as bad as eachother” claptrap. Only 19 months before their deaths, the British Army massacred 14 young people in Derry who had the cheek to take part in a protest calling for Catholics to have equal rights. Another little history lesson….the first british soldier killed (Hugh McCabe in 1969) was killed by the RUC, and that the first RUC officer to be killed (Constable William Arbuckle) was killed by loyalists, and that the first sectarian killings (of John Scullion and Peter Ward) were carried out by the UVF; and that the first bombings (in 1969) were carried out by loyalists and that the first of almost a thousand state killings (of Sammy Devenney, in front of his family; and of nine-year-old Patrick Rooney) were carried out by the RUC. The biggest population shift in Europe since the Second World War was of Catholics fleeing across the border for safety in the wake of the sectarian pogroms. And you judge those who stood up and decided to fight back? They had more dignity that you ever will.

Conan, you’re a certifiable loony!

Fight back against the killing of innocents by killing more innocents?
Very noble.

Even though he provided you with cold hard facts, he’s a looney?

A certifiably loony? Instead of resorting to nothing but personal insults, how about you tell me which specific parts of my post above are factually incorrect. I look forward to hearing it.

Fighting for freedom by placing a bomb walking away and killing innocent people.

Perhaps they were fleeing because the worst element of the “Republican Movement” had made being a Catholic in Northern Ireland unsafe ?
In fact it made being Irish at all a reason for suspicion. We didn’t have as many bombs as you did but our reputation was damaged as we were associated with the antics of the “freedom fighters”.

Those “Sectarian Pograms” were provoked by attack from the other side.
You tell the story as if one day towards the end of the sixties the unionists decided to just kill all the Catholics. That’s not the case.

Alex, your exposing your own ignorance. The sectarian pogroms didn’t come about because of attacks form the other side. The provos didn’t even exist then. As as I outlined, the first british soldier killed (Hugh McCabe in 1969) was killed by the RUC, and that the first RUC officer to be killed (Constable William Arbuckle) was killed by loyalists, and that the first sectarian killings (of John Scullion and Peter Ward) were carried out by the UVF; and that the first bombings (in 1969) were carried out by loyalists and that the first of almost a thousand state killings (of Sammy Devenney, in front of his family; and of nine-year-old Patrick Rooney) were carried out by the RUC. These are FACTS/ So if you think I’m wrong, then do explain which facts are wrong and provide evidence to back it up.

So the Nationalists were just happily minding their own business before this?
The IRA was a knitting group before this?
They weren’t marching in defiance of prohibition orders in 68? (and you tell me things have changed in the north…..)
I can see that you think we in the South are tough on the nationalists and ignore the Loyalist atrocities but its the nationalists who want be part of our country not the the loyalists so we are guarded of our peaceful reputation. We don’t like the idea of a bunch of gurriers latching onto our identity. Thugs and Gurriers belong in England and it seems that the border was drawn pretty right to keep them there.

How would these morons blowing other people instead of themselves have been doing anything for “Irish Freedom”.

“Premature explosion” There’s a tablet for that now.

Sharon, the British when they INVADED foreign lands they pillaged and plundered and carried out some of the most gruesome massacres against defenceless men, women and children. Yet they commemorate their mercenaries! Is that what you call British? This is Ireland, we commemorate throughout this Island all Irish men and women who fought against all forms of British terrorism!

Collins and his men regularly shot unarmed men from behind. What is brave about that? These two volunteers regularly engaged in armed action against armed British soldiers, out in the open. And they lived in a society which trampled their rights into the ground in a way Collins would never have had to suffer through.

You two lads are dinosaurs who are going to be left in the past with all the other dinosaurs.
Grow up and cop on.

Bobby & Conan are both suffering from historical myopia. Bobby needs to have a more broad look at British history over the last 306 years, trade not invasion was the cornerstone of British success and realise that Ireland was part of it. The tired old story of British hoards over-running innocent hobbit like cultures like the Irish is disingenuous. Blowing up innocent customs officials isn’t “fighting against British terrorism” (whatever that is).
Conan, where to begin with you?

As Gavin said, grow up and cop on.

Ah good, another sanctimonious free stater passing his judgement. At least I understand the past. It helps to do so in order to build a proper future.

Glen, “trade not invasion” that is the best definition of state terrorism including massacre of the innocents I have ever heard and you tell others to grow? Of course the British war machine was welcomed with open arms in every country they invaded. You need to take of those rose tinted glasses when you do on occasion try to educate yourself on the history of the British Empire?
Go polish your sword!

Conan, I live in the Republic of Ireland (not the Free State) although I’m not from here. I understand the past. You only have a one-eyed view of a minutiae portion of the past. It doesn’t help building a proper future.
Bobby, it would bode you well to read some history books about Britain and its relationship with Europe and the rest of the world, instead of buying Wolfe Tone records and Che Guevara posters for the bedroom. “British war machine”? Sounds like a good name for a band. Over 300 years there were good & bad things. Abolishment of slavery, global free trade, free movement of people, education, the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. I’m proud of that history.
Why don’t you two get introduced? I’m sure you’ll make a lovely couple :)

Bobby, you are quite right about the atrocities committed as part of British Imperial history. I hope you in turn are not wearing green-tinted glasses.

broad look at british history, where to start, ok concentrations camps for the boers and kenyans, drug pushing in china (ah noble trade) dividing pakistan and india, overthrow of mossadeq in iran. organised massacres in malaysia, india , afghanistan irealnd etc etc famines in india, 12 million die, land cleared and taxed and used to fund afghan war , more massacres. so noble so business like is britain this past three hundred years. you sir are mental or have read just one book written by niall ferguson i imagine .

The “USA”? They commemorate every 4th of July their form of “terrorism, “terrorism” that removed the British war machine that had invaded their shores! It wasn’t a trade war, as you foolishly interpret, it was a violent vicious war that is commemorated with pride. They Irony of that commemoration is the Land was taken from the indigenous Indian natives. Ireland for the Irish!

Paul I have a right to wear green tinted glasses, I am not justifying any invasion of anyone’s land. I stand within my own country Ireland and wear with pride, “green tinted glasses.” However looking at your photo and your comments, you need to go to Spec Savers?

Brian, I can provide a list as well. Niall Ferguson’s books are actually pretty good and don’t gloss over some unfortunate episodes. But to paint a picture of Britain as some malignant force like Mordor invading and conquering the world is disingenuous. If it was so bad the Commonwealth of Nations (most republics and a lot in Africa and including India & Pakistan) wouldn’t continue to exist.

Bobby, the British “war machine that invaded their shores?” The Americans were British subjects. Their issue was taxation without representation, and their taxes were in fact less than in the UK. Yes, the gained their independence. The difference is they don’t have an inferiority complex and keep a chip on their shoulder about it.
Ireland for the Irish? Who do you mean? The stone aged peoples who first arrived? The Celts? The Gaels? What about the Scotti who moved to Scotland? Or the Picts who travelled here? Vikings? Normans? Angles or Saxons who came to trade? What about Irish who aren’t Catholic? Or Irish who aren’t white? Who decides? You obviously.

This persistent divisiveness due to myopic views of the past and “It’s everyone else’s fault but mine” by two groups holds back everyone else in Ireland who wants to move forward.

glen first of all, you live in Ireland not the Republic of Ireland. You would do well to read some history books yourself. you say you are proud of what the British done in Australia , America, Canada. Do you even realise what happened to the natives of those lands ? you are also proud of the abolition of slavery, which is commendable but fail to realise which land the slaves came from in the first place. (hint, you living in one). As you have said yourself , you have a one eyes view of the past.

Shane. In the 19th century’s wesern frontier the US was a smaller republic than it is now. There were alot of Europeans who anihilated the indigenous peoples of America and other countries. These included a large number of Irish people looking for a better life somewhere else – in a land grab that saw the rights of indigenous peoples ignored. There is regrettable history everywhere. Trick is to learn from it instead of disassociating yourself from it and blaming it all on the Boogieman.

Hi Shane. I live in the Republic of Ireland which is on the island of Ireland. Yes, I do realise what happened to indigenous people’s of Australia, Canada etc I’ve spent many years in Australia so I’m well aware. Not good. But you say I should be more ashamed of indigenous suffering than be proud of the modern countries achievements? Your slave comments are just odd. The Irish traded slaves too btw. History happens. Some of its good. Some of its shameful. People here need to take a step back and take a detached look at the big picture, without nitpicking nuggets to back their team.
The Irish are not the tribes of Israel who lived in harmony then unproportionately suffered at the hands of a Bogey-Man. They’re no different from anyone else. Move on people.

Conan, understand but not dwell upon.

Dwelling upon? Holding one parade in the town and the only nationalist parade there in years is DWELLING on the past??

yes glen i agree, today Australia is a vibrant modern country and one which most countries would do well to aspire to but to gloss over the past atrocities because the end justified the means is kidding no one. it does not make it alright. it is shameful and was repeated all over the empire time and time again.
your comment on “trade not invasion” is that a joke ? sure Cromwell was a great trader ! the penal laws were fine and dandy. the ulster plantations were just a wee misunderstanding.

You do live in Ireland. the Republic of Ireland is the name of our national football team, you can also use Eire if you wish.

Shane are you maintaing that the British Empire as it was consisted for several hundred years of nothing but Cromwells?

It is not a celebration.It is a commemoration of all Tyrone volunteers some of who were murdered unarmed in shoot to kill operations by British Security forces but you wouldn’t know anything about that would you?. People on here talk about people in the north being as bad as each other but they then go and make flippant disrespectful comments, hypocrites.

no . I am maintaining that there was a Cromwell and his legacy in Ireland is not one of trade but of invasion and murder. glen likes to paint a rosy picture of a Britain that brought civilisation to the savages of ireland through trade which is simply false.

Mairtin, isn’t that a bit of a double standard calling the killing of IRA volunteers ‘murder?’ If they had done the same to British soldiers, people would be praising them. If these men were soldiers in a war then the British would be perfectly justified in killing them, and vice versa.

I think most people accept that there are two sides to everything. If you think Glen portrays that picture, why do you respond by painting an opposite picture? It’s not balance if that’s what you’re thinking – it’s two conflicting versions of what you both consider “reality” without either being true.

That can be said about every solider that has gone to a war Glen. Bravery and stupidity have a very thin line between them.

Conan, my comment was directed at you, not any march. We should learn from history but not dwell upon it, which you, and others on both sides of the debate, appear to do. It’s not healthy and merely serves to foster continuing bigotry and hatred. I say again; on both sides.
Long past time to let go and move on.

I think, Shane, that Glen knows where he lives. I live in the Republic of Ireland too.

Who the hell are you to decide that the state we live in doesn’t exist?

Grainnie take a look at your passport. What does it say ?

Please explain, Conan, what was “brave” about planting a bomb and walking away, knowing that people would have arms and legs and heads blown off by that bomb?

“Irish Freedom Fighters”? That’s such a catch all cliche. And in no way sectarian bigotry?!
They were going to murder people in aid of their “cause” and killed themselves in the process. They are not “freedom fighters” or “soldiers” but terrorists who came to the same end they had planned for their victims. Apart from the loss to their families, this shouldn’t be celebrated or commemorated.

Are you hearing voices again Bobby? It’s probably a Wolfe Tones record.

HA HA they blew themselves up with their OWN BOMB!!
I hadn’t heard of them before but surely the IRA would want to distance themselves from such incompetence and stupidity.
What were their names Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne!!

R W S, it is much better to listen to the Wolf Tones than to be sucked in by a load of British propaganda! A Nation once again, a Nation once again……. those Wolf Tones they send tingles up my spine. Actually Wolf Tone was an Irish Protestant, Steve you should be proud, I am!

Far better to listen to one set of propaganda than another set of propaganda?
I’d say its far better not to listen to any propaganda at all.

Terrorist is also a very “catch all cliche” . Terrorist in one man’s eyes is a freedom fighter in another. Depending on what side you are looking from.

You haven’t dealt with loyalists parades at all. you only referred to them. So far the only parade you have called to be cancelled is the one nationalist parade which the town will have seen in many years.

Conan. Do you even grasp the concept of the moral high ground?

Not a concept loyalists grasp…nationalists took the moral high ground for most of July when they watched bonfires with their country’s flag being burnt, adorned with signs-KAT-kill all taigs…and recently deceased priests being mocked. Concept can be a tad tricky when the other side won’t pick up on meaning!!

I’m sure many loyalists and republican grasp it quite well. Just not the idiots who are becoming less and less in numbers and being ridiculed all over the world. The sooner they realise this the better. In order for a side to take the moral high ground they have to lead by example which puts pressure on the other side. That’s how it works. Just to clear up any confusion.

Moral high ground? There hasn’t been a nationalist parade in this nationalist town since the 1990′s. There have been NINETEEN loyalist ‘Kick the Pope’ parades through the mainly Nationalist town of Castlederg this year alone. By next week there will have been twenty. Nationalists have taken the moral high ground by ignoring them and letting them go about their business without objection or protest. Is asking for the right to hold ONE single, peaceful, dignified nationalist parade through this same nationalist town too much to stomach for the moral guardians of society like yourself?

There was no confusion. In fact i could take the moral high ground in response to you and totally agree-id just like to high light that it can be difficult to take the moral high ground as nationalists in Belfast when your constantly referred to as bead rattlers and second class citizens. If you look back at the coverage shown world wide the majority of the bad behaviour came from the OO and Loyalists.
But in reference to your point-I think a lot of Nationalists and Catholics have actually taken the moral high ground and not responded to their behaviour over the past few months. There was less rioting from West Belfast, very few catholic arrests. Given the provocation towards catholics from the Loyalists id say they did take the moral high ground! Including the flag protests….bonfires…endless parades….

Taking the moral high ground doesn’t have to be a once-off event – why not continue to take it instead of stooping to the Orange Order’s level?

Point taken Mattoid. Im not sure one commemorative march cant be likened to stooping to the OO level over their marching season. Think Villiers (British Conservative Party) should probably have a rule for all- and not just voice opinion on the Nationalist march….

Conan / Eimhear

Taking the high moral ground in this instance will again show the world (not that is needs showing again), that the sectarianism (in other words Apartheidism) so beloved by loyalists is the main cause of social unrest and the blockage to the development of a social justice and freedom of expression within Northern Ireland.

Here is an option to portray Republicanism in a good way to the world. Gather for the parade, and then just as it is about to start make a public announcement along the lines, “In the interests of building an inclusive society for all the peoples of Northern Ireland, this parade will be postponed until such time that all parades within Northern Ireland can be planned and carried out in such a way that they honour and respect all traditions within Northern Ireland”.

How sick do you think the average Englishman or woman would be if they turn on the BBC news to see a republican parade being postponed out of respect for building an inclusive society that respects all traditions, while at the same time the loyalists supporters of the Crown run riot as they want to prevent this.

Well that’s certainly a valid option. I agree it would certainly cast a favourable light on Republicans in the North.
Suppose we should also ask Englishmen and women how they felt went they turned on the television and watched British people in the North attacking the PSNI and causing chaos while draped in their Union jack? All in the name of Britishness! They arent too bothered over there!

Actually the more I think about this idea the better this sounds….I take my hat off to you

It is not a nationalist parade, Conan. It is a terrorist parade. Don’t insult nationalists by assuming they support terrorism.