@Tom Molloy:

Sounds like you made a bad investment with borrowed money. Not the same as struggling to keep a roof over your head now is it?

@David Bourke: you do get it does put your home at risk if you can’t pay all your mortgages? If they lose money and get into debt that is their tenants on the street too

@Craic_a_tower:

We’re talking about buy-to-let here. If you borrow money for an investment, it is never guaranteed to work out. All investments come with risk.

Are you suggesting that buy-to-let investors deserve some kind of special treatment where our government ensures their profitability?

Last year I bought shares in a company that didn’t do so well, so my overall gains werre down. Does that give me a right to whinge about capital gains tax? No.

Struggling to pay rent is a bigger problem than struggling to run a buy-to-let business. Perhaps renters are better off with a more financially stable landlord.

@David Bourke: its a matter of effect. If you disincentiivize private investment in the rental sector through price controls and other market distorting regulations you will end up with ever greater shortages of rental properties. Prospective rentets will then be in a position of not being able to rent any property for any price because there are none. Cause leads to effect. It seems many would rather plug their ears and shout “greed, greed, greed” and appeal to our amazingly competent politicians to regulate more and in turn make the problem worse. I think the term useful idiot has been used for people like this.

@David Bourke: a financial stable landlord like the cuckoo funds people don’t want…… man, some people see never happy one way or another

@Damon16: but it’s still an investment, if you bit more than you could chew than you have to re-think and maybe sell

@Peter Roche:

Personally, I’d much rather rent from a large institutional landlord or at least a letting agency. Small private landlords, in my experience, are the worst. Getting a written lease is like pulling teeth, and too often they have strange ideas about their rights and responsibilities.

The cuckoo fund stuff is a bit of a scapegoat for issues caused by several decades of bad planning, NIMBYs objecting to developments, and an obsession with owning semi-detached houses.

Cuckoo funds make large scale development more financially viable, and we really need them to cope with demand. When supply meets demand, prices will stabilise, and property will become affordable again. Simple as that.

@aperally: That’s exactly right. People are not getting involved in putting their already taxed savings into creating accommodation to rent and those who previously did are getting out as fast as they can.

@Tom Molloy: did you make this choice and will end up minted along with owning the property at the end of your profiteering? Cry my a river

@The Bolt: Not all rental providers rent out a room. For many its an investment. People invest to get a return on investment and at least cover their costs. Its the same way that food producers/manufacturers invest in food production for profit. You’ll notice an abundance of food in the supermarkets. What might happen if our infinitely wise politicians began setting food price pressure zones or worse still began nationalising farms or supermarkets. Do you think food would be more available to people or less? History gives a clear answer to this. The same exact thing is happening now with the rental market.

@Damon16: Nobody is denying anybody to cover costs, or to make a profit. But lets use your example in another scenario. Lets say one of the big supermarkets buys all the food from the smaller shops. It then holds on to that food and watches as the price rises, making that food unobtainable by a lot of people. And of those that can afford it, or struggle to afford it, they buy food that doesn’t meet their needs. There’s two sides to this coin Damon, and it seems the greed side of that coin is winning.

@The Bolt: Yeah but nowhere has your scenario actually happened. Somebody would come along and offer cheaper food because they would get the customers – Lidl and Aldie are examples. Ryanair is another example in the airline industry. The only reason you’re scenario might happen is if the state (the only entity with monopoly of force) were to regulate the food/supermarket industry such that only the established players could meet the up front costs of regulation. Thats indeed why air travel was only enjoyed by the very few in this country until deregulation allowed ryanair to offer customers an alternative to the state owned Air Lingus. The current rent levels which are obsurd are directly linked to scarcity of housing units. This cannot be stressed enough. It always suits politicians to encourage simplistic “greedy x” narratives but we need to be wiser than that if we want any sort of future. I speak as someone btw who rents and who is very affected by this issue.

@Damon16: This is exactly why left wing countries like Venezuela have food and other famines and the Irish left are pushing the same insane ideas for Ireland. Sadly huge numbers of Irish voters with the help of our media have been conned into falling for the sophistry that destroys.

@Damon16: Being honest, you’re doing a better job at explaining your point than I am. Have a look at this link and this is somewhere along the point I’m trying to make. “Dr Rory Hearne: The Government does not want you to be able to afford to buy a home” https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/ireland-investment-housing-5428746-May2021/

@The Bolt: thanks for link. I read it and am familiar with him anyway. I think he comes from a viewpoint ideologically that says State/Gov good, private sector bad. He fits his facts/arguments to that view. He says rents rose because the Gov didn’t implement rent control measures 10 yra ago or whenever. The problem with that view is that large studies on the effects of rent control in the US and Europe have clearly shown that it reduces supply of properties and increases rents over time. The reason there is a supply shortage is because virtually no houses were built in the 10yrs following the housing crash, the Gov doubled down on regulation which increased build cost to unprofitable levels, new mortgage rules had the effect of forcing many new people into the rental market and all the while population increased. Covid also put a stop to new buildings. Asset inflation (a global problem driven by EU printing money to sustain gov debt) has driven house prices up world wide and coupled with new rent controls has made it more favourable for landlords to sell their rental properties further restricting supply. Just because Dr Hearne (who is a sociologist) wants something to be true according to his ideological outlook does not mean that it is true. The world is complex with lots of cause and effect. Good guy/bad guy narratives will always appeal to more people. I think we all know at heart though that when politicians hungry for popularity, power and adulation put their hands to something is generally doesn’t end well.

@Alan Wright: no it is not you are exaggerating. But most private landlords do pay 50% tax on rental income and take a big risk due to how difficult it is to deal with nonpayment of rent

@Craic_a_tower: It is. I live in D1 in a nice apt complex. Rents hover from 2k to 2.6k per month. To buy a 2 bed here is €330k. That is twice the mortgage cost. You’re always on here dictating what others should think, without know the facts of the situation. What I have said is real, you cannot dispute it.

@Alan Wright: and before you dispute my facts, which I know you’ll try. See link to daft.ie for a two bed in the same complex I live for just under €2.2k per month. For a mortgage payment on a property for €330k (I.e. mortgage is €290k) is €1.3k per month. So yes, rents are double that mortgage payments. https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-ifsc-the-steelworks-foley-street-dublin-1/3542709

@Craic_a_tower: the funny thing is that to get a landlord to fix anything in an apartment anymore is nearly impossible and sometimes the furniture and appliances are the old, unwanted items they put in their rentals rather than throwing them away. Mould, leaks etc go unattended and then when something bad happens it’s the tenants fault. Then the deposits are held for silly reasons. Antisocial behaviour is reported and ignored. It’s not as idyllic to rent as landlords seem to think it is.

@Alan Wright: so not double and you aren’t considering the maintenance fees. Landlords have the same issues as everyone else when it comes to getting tradesmen so repairs take time. When you own your own place you don’t get to buy all new furniture ever 2-3 years but tenants think landlords should do this. Then you have tenants lack of care on anything in the rental. Bought 4 washing machines, one for me one for my mother and 2 for rentals. The rental machines last less than 3 years yet 10 years later the other 2 have no issue. Tenants are very hard on anything in a rental, compare that to the likes of Germany where the tenant has to provide their own kitchen and repaint when leaving

@Craic_a_tower: I didn’t mention anything about repairs or furniture etc. I am saying the cost of rent in Ireland, especially Dublin is a direct barrier to someone getting a mortgage for themselves. And anyway, with your last ‘pitty me’ comment there you show yourself to be a winey child. If you cry about your (your) costs of your business, then you shouldn’t be in that business. I feel sorry for your tenants.

@Alan Wright: equally why should I care about your whining about rent? I actually do care about equality of rights and have friends and family struggling with renting and know what bad landlords are like. Treat landlords badly just means less rentals and higher rent. I’ll be ok but you won’t

@Craic_a_tower: ‘I’ll be ok but you won’t’ exactly so why are you whinging? The people who are renting and ‘whining’ would love to own even one property and know they’ll have a secure home, let alone a second or third that you’re making a profit from, so why are you going on like the ‘struggles’ are two sides of the same coin when at the end of the day you have that security AND a profit on top of whatever your day job is (assuming you have one). If you hate being a landlord that much then sell, we could do with more properties for sale.

@Craic_a_tower: we had a tenant who “decorated” the walls with graffiti, I mean every inch. I asked him to right it, they didn’t, and stopped paying rent. We were lucky enough to get rid of them and brought them to the RTBs, who decided the house needs a paint between each tenancy anyway so it was our cost to repaint, they were there 6 months, I don’t paint my own home every 6 months, so why should the RTBs act in favour of the tenant (in this case).

@meg: you really don’t understand basic economics. If landlords sell up less people are housed as rental have the higher occupancy rate but private homes have a low rate. Landlords are needed and they support lack of government housing. Cut of your nose despite your face. When I sell up I will take my money out of the country and leave the post colonial chip on Ireland’s shoulder about landlords

@Craic a_tower: You could address my comment properly and answer why you’re giving out and comparing your struggle to someone who wishes they had even one mortgage but can’t as it’s difficult to save when paying out of your nose for rent. You have the security of a home and profit on top. Helen Keller could see why it’s a lot more difficult to feel sorry for me you than someone paying high rent and getting no closer to owning a home.

‘When I sell up?’ I’m sure that’ll be soon since you clearly don’t like being a landlord. Poor thing.

@meg: He can’t and wont Meg. Craic a Tower is on every article about the cost of rent for the past two years crying about how bad and hard it is to be a landlord as if he’s some martyr to the people.

@meg: sorry what rules of comments am I not following? Informing you of why rent is expensive and increasing punitive charges on landlords will make the situation worse. Not sure why you don’t want a fair equal system. Currently 2 rentals can be side by side the exact same condition and one can get €1k and the other €2k and the rent can’t go up. The government made it so the person being nice by not raising the rent is punished and not allowed increase the rent to market rates. Does that seem fair

@Alan Wright: I notice you come on whining a lot. You still can’t say how the government is favouring small landlords but make the claim a lot.

@Craic_a_tower: Who said anything about rules? I’ve asked you a question twice that you haven’t been able to answer. No one with any logical reasoning skills would think that you’re to be pitied as much as someone who doesn’t know if they’ll have a secure home when they retire just because you can’t make as much profit as you’d like to on your second property.

@Craic_a_tower: I never made that accusation though. I said the cost of rent in Ireland is a direct barrier to people getting a mortgage (I.e. Can’t save up for a deposit and pay huge rent at the same time). Point to any comment of mine where I do. You can’t and you’re talking out your hole now.

@meg: you asked a question once, “why are you whinging?” I am not. What question I’d I not answer? These “?” Indicate questions in case you didn’t know

@meg: you are making the suggestion that landlords should just put up with less profit than other investments of the same value. How logical is that? Why would landlords just accept this? You really don’t get why it is bad if landlords leave the market and they will when the government tries to make them pay for a lack of social housing they are now. I am sure you wouldn’t mind if you were paid less for the greater good than the person you work beside. You aren’t entitled to make somebody else to offer you cheaper services because you can’t afford it

@Craic_a_tower: You are about how difficult it is to be a landlord, and about it being difficult to get the profit you want. You then said ‘equally, why should I care about your whining about rent’, an attempt to level the two issues. Pretty sh%tty situation people are in not being able to save for houses, not having security for the future, not comparable to not getting as much money as you want from your second gaff.

Unequal pay in the working world is a thing already, but the key word you’ve used there is work ;) you’re getting passive income and trying to make out that it’s a difficult ‘job’ because you need to organise repairs and replace items every so often and you’re unhappy that you can’t squeeze as much as possible out of people as you’d like. You’re entitled to be miffed about it but it’s bizarre to be all over the comments about high rental prices knowing people are struggling talking about how unfair things are for you.

You’re right two properties that are equal and in the same condition shouldn’t differ in rental price by a grand, that’s insanity, but don’t be surprised if people don’t feel sorry for you not being able to charge tenants two grand a month instead of one.

And if that’s your only source of income there are plenty of jobs out there, but I’m sure you do have a regular job as well as your rental income, only a hard worker could be so exhausted.

@meg: you started with your opinion and don’t listen. Explaining how messed up the market is and how policies are making the situation worse. The fact is landlords are leaving the market you may not care about what is making them leave but it effects you and what you want. I would happily reduce rents if I didn’t have to worry about 2 years of non payment if a tenant just decides not to pay.
You have to work with suppliers to make sure you have supply and bringing in random restrictions is self defeating. You need to make the market stable for all.

@Craic_a_tower: “rent is always more expensive than a mortgage in a healthy market”, and by healthy, you mean a market that suits the likes of you… landlords :D

@Craic_a_tower: I would agree with you re tenants being hard on anything in a rental. Things break down much more quickly due to lack of care and you have to replace or repair. I bought two kitchen taps the same. One has been in my kitchen 12 years. The second one was a spare and was fitted to the kitchen in the rental after the first tap developed a leak in the rinsing hose. The spare tap lasted 5 months and has a leak due to rough handling. Same story with switches on appliances, toilet flushes, etc. Don’t get me started on pop up wastes or thermostatic shower/bath taps. They are twisted until they are broken.

@Craic_a_tower: Being a landlord is a business, you invest, you take risk, you charge for services, you pay taxes, you are left with a profit, otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

Being a landlord doesn’t replace the responsibilities of government housing schemes, it is not a charitable organisation, and it is regulated to the point that landlords are disadvantaged unlike other businesses.

If there was better competition, more availability in the market, then rent would be lower, landlords need people in houses at the end of the day. I am not being unfair, Im not saying it’s right, it’s just economics, demand and supply.

@Craic_a_tower: If there were more incentives for new companies to set up outside of Dublin, or more government funded rental units, it would create a less volatile market, but the fact of the matter is, there are way more people wanting to rent than there are available rental units. Due to the restrictions and risks faced by landlords, they are leaving the market when prices are good, more economics. This is where there is opportunity for the government to invest and rent these houses out, or to ease mortgage restrictions or support owner occupiers.

@Sinead Sander: I am a landlord, so I know how it goes. I also hire people and the reason companies want to be in Dublin is because that is where the work force is.

@Craic_a_tower: I agree with what you are saying in theory, but how much if that work force can afford to live in Dublin, most commute from surrounding counties. If companies located to surrounding counties their costs would be lower and their employees commute and expenses would be less cumbersome.

The other alternative is building high rise that actually serves a purpose of accommodating families such as 3/4 bedroom units with outdoor/balcony areas that are sufficient (not a token shelf outside a patio door), not studio or 1-bedroom units, we are up to our oxters with those.

@Sinéad White: on both sides I’m sure

@Stan Papusa: yeah I use it in business terms and 15 properties is a small landlord for tax purposes and nothing like a REIT. You also couldn’t name any favours the government has done for small landlords. So we’re you just making it up? According to you 25% of government are controlling the rest to help the 25% some financial gain yet there is absolutely no evidence and in fact counter evidence such as RPZ, PRSI, LPT,PRTB etc all brought in that penalise landlords for providing a needed service.

@Craic_a_tower: If refusing to implement capping (either for rent or house prices) isn’t a favor, then again we have different definitions and I have to ask you what a favor is in your opinion.
Add to that landlords ignoring yearly maximum increases in rent pressure zones, with little to no reaction…

@Craic_a_tower: haha, “I’m just a small humble landlord, with a meagre FIFTEEN PROPERTIES!” Haha ok well you’ve shown your hand here. Any time I see landlords commenting here they’re complaining. Only way you’ll be happy is if we revert to the famine times landlord system. Haway ya absolute leech.