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The Daily PollTHERE WERE A large number of U2 fans left unhappy yesterday morning after concert tickets sold out online in under 10 minutes.
Tickets for the band’s Croke Park leg of their Joshua Tree tour disappeared from Ticketmaster almost as soon as they went on sale.
However, tickets quickly appeared on secondary sale sites such as Seatwave, Ticketmaster’s resale company.
The price tags on some of those tickets to the Joshua Tree tour are currently at anything up to €1,300.
The price tags have left many fans irate. Fine Gael TD Noel Rock – who drafted an Anti-Ticket Touting Bill during the summer – said he hoped laws could be passed soon banning the touting of tickets to events.
Ticketmaster said that with bands like U2 “demand often far outstrips the supply of tickets” and that it was committed to getting tickets “into the hands of fans”.
So, what do you think: Should reselling tickets above face value be banned?
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Ticketmaster, the most organised touts in the game. Prosecute them
I’d prefer all tickets to be sold to all fans at face value, €2,400 for tickets that would have cost €200 is absolutely sickening. Seatwave is no business, it is a corrupt cartel. It makes touts look like mother theresa.
Interesting listening to an Economist on Newstalk breakfast this morning. He said the secondary market is vital for a functional market.
The Promoter is at fault for pricing the tickets incorrectly and too low compared to the demand. If they were priced correctly the “touts” would have nothing to gain. The unfortunate thing is the price here would be too high for most fans and they would be priced out.
It is worth a listen back to hear his argument.
Ted, by that logic only wealthy people would go to concerts as nobody else could afford them. The market isn’t the answer to all of the problems in the world. In fact, it tends to dispassionately leave people behind.
@Lurfic: Ah but is it not U2′s fault for not playing enough gigs to meet demand which would bring down the cost of the tickets on the secondary market?
This is why they don’t just announce 2 nights. They get the one night only desperation from fans, pick up the second sale bit then announce that a second concert is scheduled due to popular demand. I’m not saying it’ll happen in this case but it’s what caused the Gareth Brooks debacle
Don’t shoot the messenger guys.
Just look at what airlines and hotels do when they know that demand will be higher.
The problem here is totally down to U2 and the Promoter. Lack of supply (only one concert) and very high demand means the perceived value of the tickets increases and the touts make a lot of money.
What would be interesting to see on Seat-wave is who is selling the tickets? Are they people who just got luck and were able to purchase tickets or are they connected to Ticketmaster in some way.
But that’s what they want ,,, they don’t want the great unwashed @ these gigs ,,, only the rich & glitterati
Typical thought process to an economist, falling back on the market system and the wholly subjective notion of supply and demand. The question is, would 80000 tickets have been sold at say 5 times the cost of sale yesterday. No chance. Touting takes advantage of an artificial supply shortage, thereby increasing cost. If for example the sales were restricted to 2 tickets per customer the number floating around the second hand market would instantly diminish, as would the number of disappointed fans.
Exactly, supply and demand only works if the cost is justifiable. Many thought that the prices from ticketmaster were already high but justifiable. Any higher and it would negatively effect demand
A face-value of €200 is a complete rip-off :(
Peter, do the band not get the same portion of ticket sales regardless? It’s the profiteering by others and the scale of it that’s wrong, not who’s playing. Touts don’t care who’s in the audience.
@Stephen Cullen: I wouldn’t pay twenty euros to watch U2…..
I wasn’t unhappy that they sold out – I was unhappy that thousands of them appeared on Seatwave minutes after, at 3x face value – Ticketmaster are touting their own tickets.
Looks like Stephen Donnelly and Noel Rock are going to work together on anti touting legislation. Badly needed.
Easiest thing would be for ticketmaster promoters the limit the ticket to two for big events. U2 could have have used picture tickets. People could gave paid a extra 50€ at the weekend by joining U2 fan club for a ticket.
The same with Jackson Brown tickets ,,, I went to ticket master to try buy some but they were closing , so I tried on line but Ticket master wouldn’t let me, went in next morning to be told that they were all gone but Seatwave , the ticket master subsidiary had them for sale ,,,, a bit dodgy that
@Neillie what about the next time? Why should the fans have to shell out more money to gain a ticket? Seatwave is a disgrace and it’s about time the area was regulated fairly.
Seatwave which has become a haven for touts is owned by Ticketmaster. They charge both the sellers and buyers a fee for using the service which probably originated from Ticketmaster anyway. Look at their terms 3 and 7 from the recent Justin Bieber ticket sale below
“3. Tickets purchased must be for your own personal use only and may not be transferred or re-sold to any other person or body under any circumstances or used as part of any promotion or competition or for commercial gain. Where there has been any re-sale or attempted re-sale of any tickets (or any other breach of this term), we reserve the right to cancel the relevant tickets with immediate effect. ”
“7. The original conditions of sale will be enforced. Tickets are non-transferable under any circumstances and any resale or transfer, or attempted resale or transfer, will invalidate any ticket purchase.”
How can they legitimately run Seatwave as they so blatantly disregard their own terms?
This should be investigated by the powers that be.
Keith you do realise that ticketmaster tout all their tickets there don’t you?
That’s the point, Stephen.
You think u2 aren’t getting a cut off tickets withheld by ticketmaster for sale on seatwave?
@Gordon Farrell: Why would they bother, Gordon? I cannot understand this mentality people have towards the band.
This is the same band who have taken major stage productions out on the road that only heavily eats into their own profits.Zoo TV was an enormous triumph for the band, yet they were on a knife edge for 2 years and were saved by merchandice sales .They have actually squandered several hundred million in profits over the last 25 years dragging these big stage sets around the world.Why would they suddenly be greedy?
Hi Peter, the power resides with the artist. Adele tickets aren’t for sale on seatwave, neither are Radiohead.
I agree with Gordon Farrell here to a point. U2 are under contract with Live Nation who owns Ticketmaster, which is probably why the band have been so quiet on the subject. They are contractually obliged to play ball in this case. While I am disappointed with the lack of noise coming from U2 HQ on the issue, I do believe they have painted themselves into a corner they can’t get out of. I have no doubt that the band personally disagrees with this situation, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say their hands are tied.
@Gordon Farrell: Hold on, Adele tickets were up on Seatwave for over €800.I’m guessing they are all gone now.
Look all I’m saying is that U2 have had ample opportunity to pig out over the last 25 years and didn’t.It doesn’t seem likely they would suddenly get greedy at the expense of their own fans.
Hi Peter, Adele tickets weren’t on either live nation secondary site, and she used song kick algorithms to identify touts and protect fans. Radiohead put similar processes in place to protect fans.
@magnificanthog. Great name. You’re right they’re under contract, but the existence of seatwave predates the most recent iteration of that contract, so bands know the terms when they sign up. The game hasn’t changed in the last 12 months.
If live nation are profiting indirectly from a band they represent, wouldn’t it be naive to think a band as influential and savvy as u2 is not 1) aware and therefore 2) complicit ?
@Gordon Farrell: Why were there news reports for Adele Dublin tickets on seatwave fore over €800?
It is incredible that ticketmaster who sold the tickets in the first place can resell the tickets as scalpers on their own website seatwave. There is no accountability what so ever. Ticketmaster can simply take tickets from the initial sale and make 10 times the original price as well as helping other ticket touts make huge profits. Surely in this day and age with technology there has to be a better way such as picture recognition.
Send for the brazilian an-ty touting agency.
Report the ticket number and ban the credit card would be a start,
Billy ticket master are the biggest touts. Your approach will have no affect and that is why it will be policed that way imo. A great little country for business all others can get bent.
I was heading to the Bowie concert Slane ’87, ticketless of course. Man in van pulled over offering lift which I gratefully accepted. He said he was delivering furniture in Slane area and would I give him a hand. Jaysus yes, says I. Only took an hour and he dropped me off as close to Slane village as possible. As I got out he produced a ticket to the gig. Yours for a tenner he said, which was half face value. Oh for the good old days.
Great story Michael, must have made the concert all the more enjoyable. I can remember, in the 80s, also being able to buy tickets at face value, outside the venue from fans who had a spare and didn’t want to rip people off. I saw Springsteen, Thin Lizzy and even Queen that way. I also sold off spare tickets I had myself at face value a couple of times. Unfortunately, people aren’t decent like that nowadays and just want to make a fast buck.
People are decent- well a majority are – it’s the corporations like ticketmaster/seatwave who are up to arseholery here
@Dave Harris: I agree.
I have managed to get tickets outside the venue a couple of times in the last few years from other concert goers who happened to have a spare. Never at face value, just a tenner more.
Been there Sloop … I was given tickets fir a gig walking past the Olympia 1 night by a guy who had 6 but 2 of his mates couldn’t make it … he just gave them to us ,,, bought him & his mates a few beers @ the interval
The good old days all right. I didn’t get to Slane for Bowie that year and ended up seeing him in Wembley. Worth it, but not as good-natured a trek at all.
But the hotels in Dublin have upped their rates by 300% for the wk/end of the 22nd of July impossible to get a room for less than 400 euro.
Aine if that’s not undercover touting nothing is, all legal as well !
They should Ban the gobsheens paying way and above the face value price for the tickets
If they are committed to getting the tickets into the hands of the hands… Why not sell them at face value?
If people didn’t pay the exorbitant costs the touts would not be in business. It’s well for those that can afford it.
Wouldn’t pay a tenner to see U2 so no problem. Flog away.
The Seatwave site needs to be taken offline and all the touts stuck with the tickets they bought. Concert tickets are supposed to be non-transferable.
In the end of the day it should be your right as an individual to do what you want with your property. If you bought a ticket, you have a right to sell it. Nobody is forcing anyone to pay 3x the original value for a ticket.
What should be looked into is organised purchase and selling of tickets by groups as this is a business activity and should be regulated as such.
I was ripped off by Seat Wave. I bought Little Mix tickets from Ticket master last year. I returned the 2 tickets as they were at the very back on the 3arena and I wanted better tickets. I went onto the Seat Wave link (on the ticket master Web page), bought 2 tickets at 30% more than face value, and they sent me the 2 tickets (exact same seats), that I had turned down from ticket master 5 minutes earlier. An absolute disgrace.
Isn’t that how the world exists, you buy something then sell it for more, you don’t want to pay more than the initial buyer then don’t.
I tried really hard to get the previous U2 concert, Adele and the current U2 concert. I’m going to give it up as a bad job and not bother in the future and certainly not buy touted tickets. It’s nearly impossible with 70,000 being sold in minutes – hard to believe.
@joe o hare: Correct. If someone is dumb enough to pay €2400 for a concert then they have far more problems than touting. You cant legislate for stupidity.
no, the world existed before capitalism. and this is organised crime.
@Melissa, I can sympathise with you, same happened with me for Coldplay tickets a few months ago and again with U2 yesterday….and I still haven’t found what I’m looking for :-)
If you buy something it’s your right to sell it on at whatever price you want to ask for it. Lots will pay big money to see them. Organised touts that buy in bulk are dirt.
They could have done the same for this gig as last years ones where your card was scanned going in the door
Ticketmaster withold tickets and sell at inflated prices via seatwave. That is not news.
My question: is anyone else under the impression that the artists know this happens, take their cut via their promotors but are removed enough to feign disgust?
They negotiate a ticket deal with live nation and want to maximise profits, so why would they allow live nation to profit further on the secondary market? They don’t
It is, therefore, a problem that nobody within the industry wants solved. (Well not u2 anyway)
Whose voting no????? Really???
I guess it would be FG voters as they can’t interfere in the market
@Craig Ferguson:
People who believe that our property rights should not be infringed due to the stupidity of others.
If I buy a ticket to a concert, an unable to go for whatever reason and know someone who is willing to pay extra for the joy of going to the concert due to tickets being sold out then it is my right to sell my property. My rights as a property holder should not be infringed because someone, somewhere, is so easily parted with cash that they’re willing to spend two grand on U2 tickets.
@Jason Culligan: my rights my rights my rights… all me me me, that’s the problem with this. Nobody thinking of the rights of others.
@Scundered:
What rights are being violated by people selling their private property at prices dictated by market demands Scundered? Are you saying that people have some inalienable right to attend a U2 concert and that people selling their tickets at a market dictated price is somehow violating said right?
@Jason Culligan: You’re merely defending your right to rip off your fellow man, dress it up how you like, but nobody should have to pay more than face value for a gig ticket. It’s a matter of morals, not rights.
@Scundered: It’s a commodity at the end of the day…. It has the value of the demand. When in the market its value is what someone is willing to pay and if you can make a profit from it fair play to you.
I don’t agree with someone bulk buying and cornering the market then upping the prices but it someone has a couple of tickets and they want to make some money from them then I don’t see the issue.
Wish I had a couple of tickets. I’d sell them for as much as someone was willing to pay/barter. That’s commerce that is.
If I bought the ticket I own the ticket. I can burn it if I like. Other people shouldn’t feel they have the right to dictate what I do with it.
@Scundered: Where is the cut off point? When does selling something for a profit become immoral? If I sell my house at a profit that is OK (I know its far fetched but it could happen) but selling a concert ticket is not. Can you define the line please?
@Jason Culligan: Peoples rights are violated by a thing called AUSTERITY. AUSTERITY. Bailing out banks, corruption. I wish people should learn.
In fairness – it’s a music concert not food or water.
People being ripped off for the basics is a problem. Crazy prices for 2 hours listening to a band – meh.
@Tony Le Blanc: a gig is an event limited to a certain amount of people, a brief moment in history to be remembered. Touts want to hold the real fans “over a barrel” and deny them their chance to see their fave band etc… incomparable to selling a house.
But sure, carry on defending the corruption, not realising you’re part of the problem.
@Mark Cullen: No Mark, that’s just plain greed, but sure pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how clever it is.
@Brendan Mason:
“Peoples rights are violated by a thing called AUSTERITY.”
So because people cannot afford to attend a U2 concert, their rights are being violated? What planet are you on?
@Scundered:
No, I’m defending my property rights. If you want to live in a country where ‘morals’ take precedent over financial transactions and property rights then I invite you to move to a country such as Cuba or Venezuela where such ‘morals over market forces’ have resulted in perpetual poverty. Making a profit over a smart investment is not morally wrong.
You have no moral or legal entitlement to attending a concert. I, on the other hand, have a legal right to sell my property for a profit if there’s a market for it.
@Jason Culligan: Planet Earth in case you didnt know. You are from planet AK47.
@Scundered: Could you get yourself on track here. Firstly you are talking about rights “Nobody thinking of the rights of others” Then its not about rights “It’s a matter of morals, not rights”. Again I’d ask you to define the line between making a profit off a ticket and anything else you might wish to sell.
I’m not defending corruption compadre, I’m defending common sense. If you don’t want to pay over face value for anything then guess what, you don’t have to. Is called consumer choice. If people made the choice not to purchase these overpriced tickets then the market would dry up. However there seems to be a vibrant market for cry babies who really want to see their ‘fave band’, pay extortionate prices and then whinge about it while waiting for ‘someone to do something’
Did you really want to go to U2 and couldn’t get a ticket, is that is?
@Jason Culligan And it’s the touts who are dictating the market. A lot of these tickets were bought with the intention of selling them on at a huge profit to those who missed out, not because they couldn’t make the concert. If you think that’s the way forward then you are no better than they are.
Also, TM are violating their own terms and conditions by facilitating this. If they are so committed to getting tickets into the hands of the right people, they can cap the resale of the tickets at face value. Everybody happy, bar the touts.
@Tony Le Blanc: ripping off people where they have to pay at least 300 quid to have any chance of seeing their fave band whoever it may be, is certainly not an example of “common sense”.
Going by your logic I guess you call those complaining about rent prices “cry babies” too for that matter, that’s a consumer choice, instead of having the basic human decency to call out corruption when it’s plain to see.
Have a look down the back of your cooker or sofa, see if you can find your moral compass again.
@Scundered: You guess wrong; Accommodation is not a discretionary expense, a gig most certainly is and I believe you said that concerts tickets and the housing market were “incomparable”?
But if we are looking for controls & regulation then the scandal of rents should be prioritised over people getting into a huff because they cant go watch a gang of middle aged men add another X million to their bank balance.
Do you know why? Welcome to a free market society; do you think U2, ticketmaster et al, give a continental f*ck about your definitions of basic human decency or moral compasses as long as there are halfwits who will pay thousands for a concert ticket?
I advocate consumers making informed choices for themselves, if you do not then what do you propose? What exactly are you going to do about this corruption or are you just going to blather on?
@Tony Le Blanc: “Welcome to a free market society; do you think landlords give a continental f*ck about your definitions of basic human decency or moral compasses as long as there are halfwits who will pay thousands for a house to rent?” I guess by your logic they should just move to an area they can afford… as we must protect your all important “free market”.
See how easy it is to assume your blinkered position?
@Scundered: What are you talking about? Have you been drinking?
Where am I suggesting we protect the free market? Point it out to me.
I am suggesting people like you have a problem because you cant seem to tell the difference between ‘need to have’ and ‘nice to have’ and have a problem accepting reality.
For example: In terms of property prices; unless there is a sustained & meaningful campaign by renters/buyers/government then the market will not change and yes, as a matter of fact I left Dublin city because I didn’t see the value in buying/renting there. People who see value in it will stay, see how that works?
Grow up and take some personal responsibility, the world isn’t fair, life isn’t fair. You seem to be suggesting a moral revolution to bring down ‘the system’. I hope it goes well for you but at present you seem to be a loss to offer any solutions.
While you’re busy casting the money changers out of the temple I’ll continue on my merry way of not paying for goods or services which I feel represent poor value for my money. A great example of this in action would be avoiding the farce of paying over €2K to listen to multimillionaire and self proclaimed peoples champion Bono lecturing on wealth redistribution. I’m beginning to see why you like them so much.
G’luck.
@Tony Le Blanc: The point which incredibly is still going over your head, is that where you live could also be considered a luxury item, there will always be somewhere cheaper to live in the world therefore it is YOUR choice whether you sign the lease/buy. (whilst Ignoring the fact that the prices are the equivalent of holding a gun to the head, corruption being the elephant in the room).
“the world isn’t fair, life isn’t fair”… well then maybe instead of just accepting that you should speak out when you see injustice, and be a part of the solution, writing to TD’s, the media, your own social media, anything you can do within your own resources. We are now having a few TD’s making moves towards changing the legislation, largely due to the wave of public anger, because people chose to speak up.
Good luck living in the shticks.
@Scundered: Well thank you for finally answering my question by essentially repeating back what I just said. Its been a pleasure.
@Tony Le Blanc: am sure there’s a hole in some sand somewhere for you to stick your head back in. Good luck.
@Scundered: Wow, snappy come back. Pop your your Best of U2, you’ll feel better.
It’s all a scam! This Concert ticket touting keeps coming up again & again. It’s time something was sorted & the real fans get the tickets at face value & not being sold to the highest bidder! Someone big is creaming the profits off the top!
Probably the most stupid question asked by the Journal during their short history. Of course it should!
Lot of people out there with too much money n not enough sense
Burning Man has a very good handle on this. You need to use an online profile and can only purchase or transfer tickets through Ticketfly at face value.
My car cost as much as soon of the tickets are going for would ya be well to be buying them for over a thousand euros
Some*
Market Value and all that – whether it be concert tickets, airline tickets, holidays, vintage cars and lots more, the value is what people are prepared to pay and therefore under the control of the purchasers and why should the vendors not sell to the highest “bidder”. Some old video games and the like sell for a lot more then the original advertised price – so what is the difference with concert tickets – if I have an item surely I am entitled to sell it to the highest bidder,
Of course one individual selling one item is one issue but an organisation selling to another organisation and then selling on at inflated prices and making a killing is a different matter. But then again this is not unusual in the world of economics.
I am afraid that banning this as proposed would simply send the business underground. The real solution is for people to stop buying the tickets in excess of the face value. This would end the business once and for all. So folks, the solution to this is in the buyers hands – but I would also suggest that where a company buys it’sown tickets and then resells at a higher price then the whole concert should be boycotted.
And one last comment,if a concert is undersold would price reductions also be banned? What is good for the goose is good for the gander!!!
Promoters should boycott ticket master
Maybe U2 And other bands, refuse to use ticketmaster as a ticket selling agency. Because they use another site they run to release tickets to resell at prices way over the face value. Theres bonos voice on this.
Unfortunately, U2 are under contract with Live Nation, who own Ticketmaster. Probably why they’ve been so quiet on the subject. Much as I hate to say it, the band appears to be fully on board with this.
*raises hand*..(I mentioned this before about a series of gigs that shall not be named..) I think that a system similar to booking flights should be implemented. Ticketmaster profile: account holder and nominated companions, all linked to previously, securely submitted official ID (passport, driver licence) Name and QR code printed on each ticket, specific to each person attending, to ensure entry to event is only possible to the genuine customers/fans, name change is only possible through original account holder profile at a rate that would be discouraging to do so. You want to go to a show? better make sure you know that you can…no more, oh my friend is getting married that day and I forgot, or, I’ll be out of the country and I forgot…Seriously?! These people buy tickets purely to gain. People are worse to buy them, if a gig gets cancelled (*ahem) the original buyer gets refunded, and you are out with no comeback. No interest in this particular show personally, just feel that touts are always being facilitated over genuine fans. It’s so easy for them really. See how fast a show will ‘sell out’ if the crooks can’t make a profit on it.
For individuals though it should be possible to cancel the ticket online so it’s available to another fan at the same price. People do get sick and can’t go. If it sells, you get a refund, if it’s oversubscribed, you don’t. Which is what most decent people do on the day if they have a spare ticket.
U2 tickets were purchased by bot programs set up to make a profit. These bot programs have been banned in the US and should be banned here. Ticketmaster knows more than its saying.
Very simple solution. Don’t ever pay more than face value. If whoever made it their business to make money from resale lose investment 2-3 times they will no bother to do it again.
I do not get it, people complain that tickets are being offered for 3x face value so what? Nobody is forcing you to buy. If people will be paying more than tickets are worth no banning will ever help, there will always be a way to do it.
This practice is repeated on any item with limited sale, not just tickets. Organised re-selling from the likes of ticketmaster is quite clearly wrong and should be stopped but an average person being quick to buy something should definitely be within their rights to sell it on for a profit.
@Rochelle, as somebody said on a thread here yesterday, it was a tragedy how many genuine U2 fans bought tickets at 9:00 and at 9:01 realised they couldn’t make the concert and their only option was to sell their tickets at x4 the face value. Thank f**k for Seatwave, eh?
Tickets to events should be sold only through shops with a max amount per person, no online. That way even the touts will only be able to get a handful then they go to the back of the queue and the next deserving customer gets their ticket at face value. Simples
Don’t bother with concerts anymore, like doing the lotto, gets your hopes up and ends in disappointment
Right lads it looks like we have 964 touts operating in the state
Another example of an organised and corrupt cartel for the boys, making millions off of the normal Joe Soap, and those in charge continue to turn a blind eye. It’s sickening. Pearl Jam tried to take them on in congress in 1994 but alas their reach was too big even then.
Big rock bands are too rich and rake in millions no matter what the nominal price of concert tickets may be. I suggest that, after the revolution, all major rock bands be nationalised so that the revolutionary government can keep ticket prices at a modest 10 euro each. Come on, let’s do something cultural to commemorate the anniversary of the 1917 bolshy revolution.
have your say