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THERE’S SPECULATION TODAY that Pope Benedict XVI will embark on a visit to Ireland next year, and will apologise in person to the victims of cleric sex abuse.
According to a report in today’s Irish Daily Mirror, which cites a Catholic Church source, the Pope will visit both Northern Ireland and the Republic and will make at least one public address in which he will apologise to victims of abuse.
Michael Kelly of the Irish Catholic speculated last week that the meeting of Martin McGuinness and Queen Elizabeth II had paved the way for a papal visit to the island.
He told TheJournal.ie that a visit is something that the Vatican have wanted to do for years in order to complete “unfinished business from 1979″ when Pope John Paul II expressed his disappointment at not being able to include a trip to the North in his papal visit to Ireland.
Kelly said that before the 1979 visit there had been a plan to include the North on the itinerary, but that it was feared that a large scale Catholic celebration might inflame tensions.
Pope John Paul II did visit Drogheda in 1979 and appealed for peace, and up until his death in 2005 he said he had a wish to come back and complete his trip.
During his 2010 visit to Britain Pope Benedict was quick to praise the engagement of the Irish and British governments in the peace process and referred to Christianity “in these islands”. Kelly told TheJournal.ie that this provided the “mood music” to setting up a visit.
He also said that the Queen being welcomed to the North by Martin McGuinness as a gesture of goodwill towards unionists opens the door to a similar gesture from unionist leaders.
The Catholic Communications Office has told TheJournal.ie that there is “no concrete information” about a proposed papal visit, but there has been a longstanding invitation for him to visit Ireland since he became pope.
A spokesperson said that the office wouldn’t be privy to plans that far in advance.
Michael Kelly said that a public apology would almost certainly form part of the visit, but that it wouldn’t be the first time the Vatican has apologised. He said however that it would be a chance for a more personal acknowledgement of the abuse perpetrated by members of the church.
Kelly also said that the government has shown “no great warmth” in advance of any proposed visit:
Some of the things Eamon Gilmore has been saying have been remarkable.
Both Gilmore and the Taoiseach Enda Kenny co-hosted a reception for high ranking members of the Catholic Church during the Eucharistic Congress last month, with the Taoiseach saying he did not expect a negative or hostile reaction from church leaders.
Kenny condemned the ‘dysfunction and disconnection” of the Catholic Church in a Dáil speech last July.
In May Eamon Gilmore told the Dáil that Cardinal Seán Brady should not “hold a position of authority” following revelations about abuse carried out by Fr Brendan Smyth.
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I hope not. He’s not welcome. Although we could organise a protest of this kind. :)
I hope not,but if he is I hope he’s bringing a fat bag of cash and one incredibly impressive and sincere apology. oh and maybe a few P45′s while he’a at it.
Haha That was brilliant!
I hope not, the only concrete thing they should be considering is a pair of red concrete shoes and you can guess the rest. I shall be busy like the last time, doing something important like Yawning. ,B-)
Old Nokia, your photo is great, no matter what comment you make it speaks out mischief. Wonderfull, Thanks for your common sense.
Cheers dude.
I won’t be welcoming him here anyway.
Ah yes, I remember the ’79 visit I was walking the quiet deserted streets of our capital city Yawning. It was great. :-)
Who cares
was about to post those exact words.
If he does he should be arrested as soon as he sets foot on Irish soil for aiding and abetting paedophiles
Now THAT would be something I’d like to see!!
The facts are clear – Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict has done more than any other pope in recent centuries to remove paedophiles from the priesthood. He has even moved against very powerful clerics who were guilty – he has shown neither fear nor favour in dealing with this issue.
I really loved and admired John Paul, but I would admit that his handling of the abuse crisis was weaker than Benedict’s.
Is Benedict’s handling of abuse flawless? Probably not, but then again, there’s probably no person, or organisation, who gets this right on every single case. But the facts are pretty clear – since he assumed control of the issue in 2001, and since he became pope in 2005, he has tightened things up immeasurably.
Most organizations don’t claim to represent the creator of the universe and aren’t headed by a guy who claims to be infallible. It strikes me as odd that a believer wouldn’t hold them to a higher standard than the average organization.
Actually John, the Pope doesn’t claim to be infallible per se.
The conditions where this might apply are extremely narrow, and arguably have only been invoked once or twice in the last 150 years. Infallibility is certainly not claimed to apply to administrative and disciplinary matters.
Catholics also accept that every human is weak and fails from time to time – we are not Puritans who expect perfection.
I nominate you to do the citizens arrest!!!!
Hi AlMar; Some people will believe anything without question. You, like every other human have the ability to seek the truth but, you decide to believe those who say they have found it, however; they cannot prove any of it and yet expect you to believe them.
Would you like to buy a tin of checkered paint? it is black and white in equal amounts, lovely design; Of course you don’t! that would be ridiculous wouldn’t it?.
But; believing that wine and bread can be turned into flesh and blood by thousands of budding magicians, that is different is it? taking part in an act of cannibalism is also good is it? lighting candles and mumbling some pleading words is going to help you pass an exam, feed the hungry, house the homeless, rescue victims from paedophiles and despots!
I don’t think so, in fact I am bloody certain it will not. People who believe without proof, are for the birds. Take some time and respect yourself.
There’s ‘unfinished business’ alright, like the millions due from the religious congregations as recompense for the decades of abuse.
Not welcome.
A visit such as this will just cost the country more money it doesn’t have in order to massively inconvenience the citizens and give a platform to a bigoted man who wants to live in the past. Let him peddle his wares elsewhere.
He’s well over due would be nice to see him take an interest considering all thats happened with the scandals in this country and Irish priests in the US. A lot of people have given up on the church and they don’t seem to be actively trying to change or attract the younger folk into the church.
I’m too young but my parents look back on the 79 visit with great admiration. It is a mark of the times and the distance that we have travelled from the Church that any proposed visit here isn’t welcomed with open arms.
People have given up the church, because it’s bogus. There’s no great mystery.
Sean O Briain
I remember the 79 visit as it conjures some great personal memories for me. Times were different , there was a sense of celebration and community, and of course the church was still all powerful. No one had dared come out and said what was really going on with the little children and vulnerable among us. As I was in Dubln , we walked to the Phoenix Park with shopping trollies laden with sandwiches and flasks of tea… If the Pope comes here I would not even tuern on the TV set to see him hereso much is my disgust of him in particular.
Hi Eileen, good comment but an organisation is only as powerful as we allow it. So the church is only as powerful as you allow it, you are in charge of your own life and let no one take that from you.
Ephan
Thanks for your comment . :)
There is only one thing that might attract young intelligent people / folk. to the church “Tell the Fcuking Truth”
He can stay where he is thanks very much.
Here’s what will happen, if this visit comes to pass:
The Pope will come. People on the Journal will spit feathers, call him names, and demand that ACTION BE TAKEN.
Some Gay group will organise a protest about being gay and how the Pope doesn’t like them. The Pope will wave at it as he passes and not give a hoot, but Broadsheet.ie will carry pictures of some chump dressed in a Rainbow with an obnoxious sign and some people on the internet will dutifully praise it.
Colm O’Gorman will take to the airwaves and demand more apologies (as is his right) and then, when the apology comes, will take to the airwaves again to decry the apology as not going far enough and demand more apologies. Broadsheet.ie will carry his statement with a witty (but very serious) headline, and people on the internet will dutifull praise it.
A lawyer of some description will propose arresting the Pope, He’ll get the coverage that none of you people who want to arrest the Pope get because he is a lawyer and his opinion must be taken seriously. Broadsheet will report on this in the same *very serious* tone they use when talking about Terry Prone. The Internet will talk about this right up until the moment Vatican 1 hits the skies for Rome.
Some Political Party (probably the Greens) will announce that they are boycotting the visit. Even Broadsheet and commenters here will mock the self-importance of that one.
Meanwhile, most of your parents, and Grandparents, will either stay respectfully at home and watch on telly, and about 50,000 or so of them will take to the streets to wave at himself as he zooms by in the Popemobile (which will be the subject of umpteen Newspaper features and at least one Journal article, all by itself).
In total, about 100,000 people will come out to see the Pope, which will be hailed as a triumph by David Quinn (who’ll enjoy rubbing your noses in it) and a disaster by people who’ll point out that it’s a tenth of the crowd JPII got in 1979.
The Pope will then leave, not ever having read one of your comments, or giving a hoot about what you think, safe in the knowlege that his speech here about victims, and his personal apology, and his handshake with Peter Robinson, will be transmitted around the globe on his terms.
And when it’s all said and done, not a thing will have changed. So it’s better that you all relax about it and let the bloody charade go ahead than waste your time getting worked up about the whole thing.
Only thing I’d differ on will be that he’ll get more than 50,000 on the streets, including a good share of Poles who will want their kids to see him, and Africans who actually agree with him.
Time to get my protesting pants on. He speaks to God they say…
Extradition anyone?
i pope not.
The who?! :-P Anyways, if he does come all he is going to do is apologies for all the wrong doing the church has done…… Words with no substance!
Hi Dave, I think it’s Walt Disney, only not as funny.
If he comes I hope he brings lots of money to recompense those affected by clerical abuse. I hope he hands the offenders over to the gardai so they are prosecuted and convicted. I hope.
yeah a bit like the social services who have handed over those responsible for those children abused and died in their care….oops sorry they may have been disciplined we will never know….why cause they are civil servants employed by the state occupying positions of care and responsibily for those who were vunerable or abused by their parents… yeah funny we castigate the church and want accountibility from the church but its ok for social workers to preside over children who died in their care and were abused and neglected and not a peep from anyone
Social services unlike the church don’t actively lure children in to be molested and beaten nor do they abuse power in beating and refusing education to kids in schools for decades. Stop clutching at straws for weak excuses. The catholic church should be abandoned, the good clergymen and women that make up the vast majority should be given new roles in the community thus freeing everyone from the few monsters who have ruined your church
no your right jonna social services can ripe the children form their families them put into care, social services have a lot to answer for, yet the public get no answers,very much like the church. It took decades to get answers for the abuse and still no accountability. same as the social services
Many people will be delighted he’s coming, others outraged. Same happened with the British Queen. Leave him come, leave people welcome him or protest against him. I for one will be doing neither
The queen doesn’t represent an organisation that systematically abused children and proceeded to cover up. At least she recognised wrong doing and her visit offered some historical value. The pope is a bigot who represents an organisation with evil at its core and he refuses to recognise that the church were wrong. And if you think you seen protests for the queens visit, wait till this **** visits.
The Queen represents a real place the pope represents a fantasy that exists only in his head. He should be locked up, the man and those in his his organisation are deranged, there are more sane people locked away for telling the truth.
If he comes, tell him to bring some of those priceless treasures he’s hoarding in the Vatican (vow of poverty me arse!) and to give appropriate recompense to all the men women and children abused at the hands of his footsoldiers. His mealy mouthed words mean nothing.
His close association with John Paul II during his reign means he’s as complicit in the protection and facilitating of child abusers and rapists as his predecessor.
Over my dead body
If he does come I hope to see more protesters than people welcoming him. I was taking to the Phoenix park by my parents when the last pope came right at the time when myself and one of my friends were going through a horrible time in school at the age of 11. My friend hung himself 25 years ago and I spent my life never staying in the one place for more than a year. We both met on many occasions in the local mental hospital, me being detoxed from alcohol and my friend from drugs. Thankfully I got good counseling over ten years ago and haven
Jim, all I can say is that I wish you inner peace, contentment and continued sobriety.
Jim, you can hardly blame the pope for that.
He’s a disgrace. John Paul II was an honorable man unlike this Papa.
JP said gay people are intrinsically disordered.
JP was a man of his times, fighting injustice, the Soviet regime in Poland & working for a more inclusive church. This gombeen’s a traditionalist who’d love to see it go back to Latin masses for everyone!
Times changed, but Benny win’t let the church come with it. >:-(
I take it you approve of his comments about gay people…
And discouraged the use of condoms in AIDS ridden Africa.
You’re kidding right? John Paul II, Patron Saint and Protector of Paedophile Priests! How many priest around the world did he let continue abusing children throughout his reign? Are they the actions of an honourable man?
I’m not going to stand over JP’s thoughts on homosexuality, I think the opposite. Nor will I defend him on paedophole priests. If he knew, then I’d hope he looked for forgiveness. But he was a damn sight better than the crackpot that’s killing my church!
The whole thing is a disgrace, a bloody farce. None of them are any good, their entire organisation is based on fantasy. Get on with your lives and leave childhood fairy tales behind you. Take back your sanity.
Colm, asking forgiveness is good enough. If I kicked you in the stones, then asked forgiveness would that be cool? Thy should all be taking responsibility all of this is such a shame , too many lives ruined and the good name of the majority of priests who are good people has been tarnished
Drank since. But it shaped my life and what happened to me was mild to what has happened to a lot of people and I think my friend got it worse. The priest involved is married now and living a great life running a credit union in Ireland.
No doubt Kilkenny Cat will be delighted and excited, itching to kiss his ring!
Looks like you have Kilkenny Cat on the brain Nokia Charger. You must be missing her?
Old Nokia – you just cheer up my $hite day no end – Im finally managing a smile to a nasty ould day thanks to you LMFAO xxxxxx
Happy to oblige! :)
I welcome the Pontiff, and I’m sure the Irish people will live up to their reputation of being warm and welcome to all visitors.
How about a chorus of thousands of victims of clerical abuse singing “You’ll never beat the Irish”?
Long standing invitation from who exactly? I think we can be fairly certain that he won’t be receiving the same kind of blind and blinkered adoration JPII got.
And you just know that apology will be another one to “the faithful”, so the rest of us can sod off.
Will we see “No Pope Here” signs?
I welcome the Holy Father to this country. He will be welcomed by all age groups; the diversity of people attending the Congress has shown that. Plus the fact that the Pope received a standing ovation from young and old at the Statio Orbis.
Let him come and then slap in handcuffs the minute he sets foot on Irish soil, he’s the head of the largest pedo gang on the planet and as the CEO of his perverted church the buck stops with him. “Holy Father” my arse, holy shit more like, where on earth have you been living when the epidemic of vile revelations were coming out about the catholic church’s behaviour in Ireland? pervert priests, cover up bishops and nazi style camps run by vicious nuns who destroyed the lives of thousands of “young and old”, men women and above all children. There’s nothing remotely ‘holy’ about Ratzinger or his cult!
if u are joking ha ha,if u are not,ha ha,ur deluded!
You are taking the Piss!
Romani Domum!
Down with this sort of thing!
That would be an ecumenical matter
Yes he should visit if he wishes. Just like the head of any other church such as Queen Elizabeth among others. nA visit has the potential to address the outstanding serious issues.
A visit has the potential to address the outstanding serious issues.
Will this pope be alive in 2013? He can stay at my gaff, just keep his private secretary out of my office.
peacocks parading….
When the article says he will apologise, will it be a repeat of the “Human Weakness/The Devil made us do it” apology from last week, a collective Church apology along the lines of “The Church has let everybody down(but lets not mention names)” like the one at the Eucharistic Congress, or a proper heartfelt apology from him, apologising peronsally for protecting paedophiles like Lawrence Murphy and Marcial Maciel, and calling the allegations of Church abuse in the USA a fabrication of the media?
In fairness, you can hardly accuse Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict of protecting Maciel since he is the very one who launched the investigation into Maciel and had him removed from public ministry.
Yes but in keeping with the commonly held idea within the Church that the laws of any other country are meaningless, he never offered any evidence he had to Mexican authorities. Having him removed from public ministry is only one step above moving him to another parish, both are just exercises in damage limitation.
No Brendan.
Firstly, the statute of limitations was well expired in Mexico.
Secondly, removing the likes of Maciel from public ministry at the age of 86 (the investigation was only begun when Maciel was 85) was an incredible move. At that age he was no longer a threat to anyone. This was one of the most high profile priests from Mexico, and indeed in global Catholicism. The order he founded was the fastest growing in the world, and it was highly respected. By moving against Maciel, it was clear that the Legionaries of Christ would be damaged, that they would have experienced turmoil and decline. This is exactly what happened. But even still, Benedict acted. He could have ignored it or fudged it. He didn’t.
Okay, I forgot about the Statute of Limitations, i apologise. But is it really that incredible a move? Surely it would be a given, if any other world organisation, let’s say the World Scouting Organisation, it’s the only one I can think of anywhere near in size to the church, had a member like Maciel then kicking him out would not be considered incredible. The fact that an action like that is given adjectives like incredible or unprecedented is not a sign that the church is all of a sudden incredibly progressive, only that expectations have hit rock bottom.
I’m pretty sure the statute of limitations has not expired for many catholic priests currently suspected of or under investigation for paedophilia. What chance the pope might release any information he has to the relevant countries’ authorities?
Brendan – I do accept your point about expectations to a certain extent. Removing those like Maciel should have been the norm. it wasn’t, but in reality under Benedict it is becoming standard practice.
Noddy – the issue of files is really one for the local bishops. They have been told by the Vatican to comply with national laws regarding reporting crimes.
If a rapist goes to court and apologises for his crime, will he be allowed go free like the church has? No he will not and rightly so. Apologies like that, are empty and will not restore the innocence to those from whom it was viciously and violently taken. So forget your apologies and let us start looking for heads to roll until they are all either locked up or deported to some hell hole inhabited by crocodile and other wild carnivores.
Wow, one positive comment at the time of posting this! We’ve changed our attitude substantially from the one which was here during JPs visit.
Kilkenny Dinosaur Cat will be here any minute to tell us all we’re going to hell!
Haha-looks like Nokia charger was rattled by Kilkenny Cat. He’s fighting with her now on stories where she hasn’t even posted. It’s ok Nokia, we’ll tell her to stop outsmarting you.
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells.
(Lyrics by Pink Floyd)
Ah Derek, that is it in a nutshell. Well done.
He’s more than welcome, once it’s the Church and not the tax payer who foots the bill.
Whether you like it/not he is a head of State, and entitled to the same protocols as any other. Treasures are open to the public – selling to wealthy Arabs/US removes them from view. Grow up all of you behave like adults. Would you be this disrespectful to an Arab head of State, or to Islam?
The Pope is head of an Authoritarian Statelet that systematically covered up crimes in sovereign states… If any other country did that to Ireland, yes i would oppose their visit.
He is not entitled to the same protocols, because he is a criminal.
We now know that he actively attempted to hide the abuse scandal from secular authorities, and was involved in the transfer of priests to different locations after allegations were made against them.
If they were complicit in the cover up of the abuse of thousands of children, yes I would.
Hi 680199, All religions are fundamentally disrespectful to me and to the collective intellect of my fellow humans. There is not one single shred of tangible evidence, to back up their ridiculous claims. Yet millions follow blindly and hang on every word, it is no wonder that governments get away with screwing us, they see that we are gullible enough to believe without proof. You get what you deserve.
No not to Islam and you know full well why.
Hi Fiachra; The pope is a self-made head of an authoritarian state of mind. The vatican city is a state of fundamentalists, where else would you be allowed to set up a state as small as the vatican? a city within a city. Strange how it wasn’t destroyed in either world wars, when all around it was devastated. Some say it was protected by their god, if so, where was this god, when his chosen Jewish people were being annihilated just over the border in Germany and Poland etc?., If what they say is true, then their god was more interested in protecting the wealth and money of the vatican, ponder that if you will.
As long as it costs the taxpayers nothing pope bendydick can visit all he likes
He not head of state …….. He’s head of a bunch of shirt lifters and abusers and until they admit the wrong doing he ain’t nothing to me …..,,,,, and don’t get me started on cardinal Brady …..,,,
So, when the Pope didn’t come to Ireland to apologise for what happened, there was outcry, now when there is speculation that he will come next year, and to do just that, there is hell to play….? Right… makes sense to me.
“Won’t somebody please think of the children”
I’d rather my Tax money was spent on health and education.
Maybe we can burn a few witches to welcome the old buzzard.
No one was very burnt, pressed or hanged for being a witch in this country.
Petronilla De Meath was burnt at the stake in Ireland and there were plenty of women hanged/strangled for sorcery and heresy. Maybe do a bit of research before making baseless claims?
Can’t believe he got a standing ovation with his telecast in Croke Park during the Eucharistic Congress, but what do you expect, he’s preaching to the converted with those in attendance. Wonder how the church congregations will continue to decline into the future, in my opinion most people get their kids christened as is a requirement upon school enrolment for their kids and married in churches to keep their parents happy or like the idea of a traditional wedding, most of the said don’t step into a church from one end of the year to the next!
About as welcome as the Westboro Baptist Church.
Thank you Daisy.
‘Young People of Ireland….we raped you and abused you and destroyed your life, we will make amends, we will give you all our wealth and property, we will give you all we have and our service until our lives are done…as penance. Can you please please forgive us our terrible crimes’
Why do they dress up as clowns? As a kid at the circus a pedophile was the to hung up all the kids – then he played the part of the clown. Perfect cover for his behaviour. Just. Like the church.
I wonder would Enda have the balls to tell the church to feck off to the Popes face. I’d pay to see that.
He’s not welcome, like I’ve said many a time, if it does visit I will make sure to book some time off work to do my part in any protests. I’ve not been part of any protests in a very long time but I sure as hell will be involved in some if he attempts to visit Ireland,
The church in Nenagh has been undergoing major clean up the last few weeks, even power washing the outer walls 150 feet up, coincidence?
Can’t wait :)
He can f**k off . Him nor his minions are relevant anymore !
People of Ireland, forgive me.
I hope not
The article states “no concrete plans” and then goes on to say “When he arrives” as if there are concrete plans! It’s a pair of red concrete shoes with replicas for all those who abused and covered up, is what they need. I do not want him here and just like the last visit, I shall be busy doing something more important, like Yawning. :-)
TO EACH HIS OWN WE ALL HAVE BELIEFS, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PROVIDED SCHOOLS AND HOSPITAL S WHEN NOBODY ELSE TOOK OWNERSHIP OF SAME MORE GOOD THAN BAD CAME OF THIS.SO SO MUCH WRONG HAPPENED BUT SO SO MUCH GOOD INDURED TOO.I THINK HIS HOLINESS SHOULD BE WELCOMED TO OUR COUNTRY FROM EVERY CORNER IN THIS LITTLE NATION WE HAVE FAITHFUL JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE NO THREATS OF MILITANCY PLEASE.
His holiness, my arse! Sideshow Bob, more like. A lot of people have done good without claiming to represent some guy in the sky, or needing to wear a pointed hat and swan around in silk and gold. No fear of these arseholes going hungry. Also there is no need to shout, using capital letters to get your point across it doesn’t make it any more sensible.
Well said ed !!! Ashamed to say he’s the leader of our religion , id nearly turn Jewish !!!!!
Stop teaching our / your children this muck as if it were true!,
Stop taking them to the fountain to be indoctrinated into this club without their permission.
You don’t expect them to continue believing in the tooth fairy, so, what is the difference?.
You might as well read a passage from Alice in Wonderland, and tell them, that is true too.
Before you move your eager little fingers to give this a thumbs down, ask yourself “do I have any proof”
Why was my comment removed?
Hi the truth hurts! Why dont you repost your comment and see what happens?
You irish will never learn. You keep getting whipped for your ‘sins’ you then ask for forgiveness and go back for more whippings. Oh well…
have your say