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DELAYS AT DUBLIN’S Probate Office have reached a record high of five months, causing prolonged stress for people waiting on a division of assets to be approved and impacting the housing market.
The delays have steadily increased after a new way of working was introduced at the start of the Covid pandemic to accommodate remote work for the office, replacing the old face-to-face system.
Solicitors have called on the Probate Office to reinstate its face-to-face counter service as they continue to deal with upset clients and poor communication from the office.
One solicitor said the current arrangements are “absolutely shocking” and told The Journal that they have had clients crying to them on the phone as a result of the lack of communication and long delays from the Probate Office.
The new system makes solicitors not want to take on any new probate cases, the solicitor said.
Probate is the legal process to distribute the property and assets left in a dead person’s will.
Pre-Covid, cases were brought before a probate officer in person, who would go through the application and provide a receipt of acceptance or point out anything that needed to be amended.
Options for solicitors to request an application be expedited were also in place until they were scrapped in 2019.
One solicitor told The Journal that lawyers appreciated being told if there was a problem with the application because “you knew what you were going to fix as you were walking out the door”.
However during the Covid-19 pandemic, the public counter at the probate office was closed.
Since then, solicitors are required to leave their applications in a box at the Courts Service probate office in Smithfield in Dublin, and wait until it is collected.
The procedure leads to wills remaining in cold storage for up to five months before a probate officer begins the process to issue the grants, according to a number of solicitors.
Impact on clients
Richard Hammond SC, a solicitor with Hammond Good LLP in Co Cork and the former chair of the Probate, Administration and Trusts committee of the Law Society, said that a lot of clients are “already suffering” with the loss of a loved one when applying for probate grants to be issued. As a result, the delays can often prolong the process of healing.
Sinn Féin’s justice spokesperson Pa Daly has highlighted the impact the delays are having on families, noting that the process to get probate applications approved can be a “long, emotional and occasionally divisive”.
One probate solicitor, who did not want to be identified in the event their practice is impacted, described the current arrangement as “backwards”.
“It’s a bomb waiting to go off with a lawsuit,” they said. “I’m just waiting for the day someone loses an original will.”
The Courts Service told The Journal that the security of wills is “not an issue” and that the documents are placed in a secure, locked box which is emptied “a number of times during the course of each day”. The area is also monitored by CCTV.
It added that current delays are between 17 to 20 weeks for applications without errors.
Once collected, no receipt is given to confirm the probate office has received the application and if there are any issues with it, the will is sent back to the solicitor without explanation.
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“They [the Probate Office] don’t see the effect this is having on clients,” one solicitor told The Journal.
However, the Courts Service said that up to 60% of returned applications are due to errors and said solicitors were ultimately responsible. “This significant error rate slows up the processing of cases,” it added.
The Probate Office accepts that there is a delay in beginning the process. As of yesterday, the Courts Service website says that the office is currently assessing applications received 20 weeks ago on 21 September 2023.
The Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland (SCSI) have said that the delays have “frustrated” the sale of some properties and resolving the delays would improve the housing market.
The Courts Service refutes this however, and claims that in some cases, house sales have reached agreements while probate applications “have not even been made”. It added that 50% of applications that were expedited to accommodate sales were made after the sale had been processed.
“Again, it is not fair to put these ahead of those who got their applications together in a timely fashion,” it told The Journal.
The then-Minister for Justice said in 2019 that the Dublin Probate Office had begun work on an online system to speed the system up. The current Minister, Helen McEntee, said recently that the system is expected to launch in early 2025 – six years after it was mentioned in the Dáil.
A spokesperson for the Courts Service confirmed this date. However, ahead of the roll-out of the new system, some other services are no longer available online, most notably charitable bequest forms.
Staffing issues
A lack of staff has been blamed for the face-to-face counter not reopening since the end of the pandemic.
A spokesperson for the Courts Service said the current waiting times in the Probate Office have “unfortunately increased”, due to a number of staff retirements in the Probate Office.
“Given the volume of applications and given the work that has to be done, it’s undoubtedly the case that the probate office would benefit from more resources,” Richard Hammond told The Journal.
The spokesperson said the Courts Service is currently “prioritising” recruitment.
Hammond added the Probate Office provides an “excellent” service for the High Court and described it as a “good earner” for the state. He added, despite this, the office is given the fewest resources by the Courts Service.
Hammond said that both clients and solicitors need for processing times to improve, and that can be done with the appointment of more staff and creating a “higher headcount”.
One senior probate solicitor, who also did not want to be identified, said they believe that the public counter needs to be reopened to help practitioners and clients.
They told The Journal that they understand just three new staff members would solve the issues in the Probate Office.
The spokesperson for the Courts Service said that the delays are not hampering the processing of wills and provided figures that prove the number of grants – the term used for the divison of assets – issued last year are now equal to pre-pandemic figures.
Graph provided to The Journal from the Courts Service that show the total number of grants issued in 2022 reached pre-pandemic figures. Irish Courts Service
Irish Courts Service
However, the figures did not include how many of these grants remain on the waiting list.
Figures from parliamentary questions asked by TDs since 2019 show that this is the longest that the delays have been over the last five years.
In 2019, delays ranged from 3-10 weeks, while in 2020 they lasted between 4 and 8 weeks. In 2020, delays lasted up to 10 weeks and in 2022 they stretched to 12 weeks.
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If bad tenants overstay long enough there is an outside chace Sinn Fein will ride to the rescue on a white horse and give all the rights to the tenant regardless and bequeath to them a free gaff.
@Eoin .h: Well, their policy on this is not balanced, and they continue to be tenant centric. They have stated that they want to reduce the rental market by 50% with 300,000 rental properties, per CSO , removing 150000 will not help , 30,000 a year on average BTW. Where will these people go?
If 30,000 properties were to come on the market, great, but people rent for a host of reasons, affordability being probably the biggest one.
This was stated in their recent policy document on the property sector
@Paul O’Mahoney: affordability? You can get a mortgage for less than a month’s rent these days.
At least you own something, and you can rent a room to help you pay back your mortgage.
And you’re helping someone with a place to live. If house prices drop, with the introduction of social housing, people wouldn’t need grants,
They could afford to buy.
Anything is possible, with the will to change.
Sick of seeing apts being built, to rent, one set I pass frequently have been sitting idle for a few months, in a housing crisis.
Build with no car spaces, only bicycle yet advertised for over 50s.
Who do they think they are kidding.
@Colette Byrne: There are so many facets to this problem that it’s difficult to come up with solutions that will solve it , and all reasonable people in the country want it solved, but reducing supply isn’t the best approach.
Getting a mortgage will need 10% deposit so 30- 40k it’s not an easy thing to do, Grants in my opinion are needed, when we bought our first house we got a £2000 first time buyer grant the house cost 39k and it helped with basics like a flooring etc.
Solutions have to be holistic and non-political, there are 160000 vacant houses, flats etc in Ireland even one third of those been fixed up would help….but it hasn’t happened. Why too many vested interests and wrong policies
@Paul O’Mahoney: what they actually said is they want to reduce the size of private rental properties as a percentage of the overall housing stock over the next 5 years. This plan includes an increase of 35,000 private rental properties, it’s just a lower increase compared to other sectors.
Btw how can they be tenant centric whilst also reducing the number of rented properties (which they’re not actually doing)? Read and understand their policy.
@Colette Byrne: you can get mortgage theses days : but not for the price of the house you’re currently renting……………being approved for a notional figure at which there are s.f.a. houses available, means nothing
@Paul O’Mahoney: Paul. That figure of 160000 should be taken with a grain of salt. I live in the country and within 1 kilometre of me are 5 of those so called vacant properties. Yes they are, but they are only fit to be knocked. It’s nothing to do with location, the area is in high demand.
@Donal Ronan: Oh I understand that they reckon there are only 100000 that might be habitable with renovations, but the majority are probably in cities ex council flats etc came across a website called derelict Ireland they might provide better stats.
They were featured in a NY Times article recently but that focused on Cork.
@Alex: they helped me in resolving my dispute with my former landlord.
Threshold are also good allies when needed.
It’s very stressful for all parties involved.
Sorry but is anyone going to call out the claim that organisations keep making that “small landlords are fleeing the rental market” as completely untrue? CSO data has shown that unregistered tenancies have increased massively, while registered ones have dropped, meaning there is a huge increase of landlords who are not paying tax and taking cash rent. There is almost 80,000 more unregistered rental properties in the private rental market Rental prices, demand and tenant’s desperation have never been higher, so can we acknowledge here that the idea that the current landscape is somehow pushing landlords out is a misrepresentation of the facts.
@Sylvia Power: No, it isn’t a misrepresentation of the facts. That previously unregistered or undisclosed tenancies are now being formalised does not create or add a single bedspace – and those that are leaving (from both registered & unregistered tenancies) continues.
@Sylvia Power: You are in denial and guilt. Only foreign funds that can afford their own legal teams can risk letting people into their property. 75 year old with PRTB emboldened tenant no rent paid to pay service charge etc and two years €25 thousand of legal fees to be paid try and get property back Sell up while you can is the advice.
@Sylvia Power: mom and pop landlords are fleeing in droves. Why would you stay? Rent increase limited to 2% and the spectre of a rent freeze under SF. Useless slow RTB. Tenants trash the place and you wait years to recover the cost, if you are lucky. You would be out of your mind to be a landlord
@Ciaran O’Mara: The overwhelming majority of tenants do not “trash the place” or not pay rent. That’s just a lie. A bog standard bed apartment in Dublin is now €2000 per month. I have absolutely no idea why landlords are whinging when everything in the housing market benefits them at the moment.
@John Moylan: It’s nothing to do with adding bedspace. It’s that landlords are finding it more lucrative to not pay tax, possible “fleeing the rental market” means going cash under the table with desperate renters or an unregulated Airbnb. Anecdotally, the vast majority of people I know who are renting are in unregistered tenancies because the landlord doesn’t want to pay tax.
@Ciaran O’Mara: some landlords are moving into their rented properties, on paper anyway. Put a bill in their name, rent through rent a room, collect a bit of cash to keep in under the limit, not tied to the 2%, they can even do the renters credit. If they have kids over 16, move them in, on paper.
@brian o’leary: Can confirm. Ex-landlord said he moved in to the RTB, I still live in the same town and have checked a few times. Bllsht! It’s very profitable to be a lying landlord these days!!
They aren’t painted this way in central Europe where most residencies are rented..
In fact, in Germany leases can be passed onto the heir when the main tenant dies and so on.. There are still leases from the 30′s-40′s-50′s that are alive and kicking!
So that’s 3 generations.
Naturally, there are rent increases, and building management fees the tenant has to pay.
Why are tenants always painted as the evil ones in Ireland?
Did any of you ever live overseas and rent a house or apartment for a longer duration?
You were the tenants! Imagine!
Is it a historic reflection of poverty -if you rent you are therefore poor/uneducated/antisocial?
What about all those with money, social standing who rent out of choice not necessity? Should they be painted as villains too?
Aren’t the tenants a crucial part of the housing industry as they (or through them) the landlord has a regular income?
How about changing the perspective a little and when you decide to rent out your house, you do with all the knowledge and research done?
Many landlords go onto it without actually learning what’s involved in having a tenant.
You either go the whole hog or not at all!
Far too much common sense in this suggestion.
It won’t happen.
This government don’t do common sense they like things be complicated, over priced and non functional.
Prime example RTB
As long as landlords are routinely allowed keep deposits for normal wear and tear, there will be no fairness in the system.
Bad tenants, while problematic, are a small minority. Landlords unfairly withholding deposits seems to be the norm.
Landlords shouldn’t hold the deposit – a third party should and they would adjudicate where there is dispute.
The obvious thing to do, is to re purpose the RTB to be an Airbnb look alike. Let them do the check in. Mind the deposit, and pay the landlord the rent monthly, minus %, regardless of not the tenant has paid or not. Then do the check out. Any disputes, deal with them in house.
What terrorises landlords, is where someone stops pay, trashes the place etc.. RTB then finds for the landlord, along with the legal fees, often coming to well over 30K. Has one of these settlements ever been paid up.???????
Awarded €2525 by RTB. Landlord who not only owns the house and works but has his own business now says he’ll pay at €10 per week. Says he can’t afford it. He raised the rent I had been paying by €600 per month for his new tenants yet says now he can’t afford to pay.
He makes a mockery of the RTB system and will get away with it because the RTB tell me their funds for enforcement are limited and a judge would likely approve the landlord’s offer.
My option now is go to court to try get what was awarded. I have to wonder what the point of the RTB is when he can get away with that sort of behaviour. It’s an insult to me and to justice!
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