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TOMORROW MARKS THE five year anniversary of the announcement of the bank guarantee. Just two weeks after that blanket €440 billion guarantee of all liabilities in the banking system, we had the first of the austerity budgets — prompting some 25,000 people (mostly students and pensioners) to take to the streets and protest outside Leinster House.
In the intervening years, we’ve experienced a number of large-scale trade union-led demonstrations — with over 100,000 turning out for two ‘days of action’ in 2009 and 2010. Smaller protests — by students, farmers, carers and anti-property tax campaigners — are also, by now, a regular feature of Irish life.
However, as the effects of ‘recession fatigue’ have taken hold in recent years, there’s been fewer and fewer people taking to the streets. Over five thousand signed-up via social media for a protest to ‘lock the Government out of the Dáil’ earlier this month — but on the day, just a few hundred turned out.
Elsewhere in Europe — Iceland for instance — sustained weekly public protests led to the collapse of governments. There’s also been massive social unrest in Turkey, Greece and Spain – to name a few. Egypt even made time for two revolutions.
So — why don’t the Irish protest more?
Well, as you might imagine — there are no simple answers. TheJournal.ie has been speaking with an economist, a youth campaigner, a left-wing MEP and an expert in political and economic geography….
First of all, you know, there’s no one factor on its own that can explain it. There’s a whole combination of factors — but when taken together they give quite a powerful explanation.I’ve looked at attitudes to welfare and the welfare state and what kind of people we were before the Celtic Tiger — and then used the statistics from that to see what way we were likely to react during austerity. There are five or six fairly big studies done on the area, and basically what the results show is that though Irish society does have people who are kind-of radical, many are more self-centred, and they don’t look to the government for solutions — they just get on with their own lives.
I’ll just give you an example: in 2006, 79 per cent of the Irish population said there should be some restriction on immigrants, which is generally viewed as a kind of self-centred, kind of a right-wing view. 73 per cent said that taxes should be kept low even if it means more inequality. 70 per cent then believe that the wealthy should be allowed pass on their own wealth without having to pay any taxes on it.
Kerry TD Michael Healy-Rae is heckled by protesters at the ‘Dáil Lockout’ protest earlier this month [Photocall Ireland]
The Irish mindset
The Irish psyche, you know, really goes back at least to the famine…There was a class of people — a relatively thin stratum of our society — who did well after the famine. They realised that being totally self-centred as a class and being totally focused on their own affluence — that that was the way to go. When they came into independence, this class of people were modelling a type of government which was about looking after certain sections of Irish society, and not really about a proper welfare state.
Ordinary people in the street saw that you had to be a ‘cute hoor’: look after yourself; go to you local politician if you want to get planning… They saw subsequently that those people who were well in with Fianna Fáil in the building industry did well, or that farmers who were close to Fine Gael did well. They created over decades this type of behaviour which was being called ‘sleveenism’ or ‘gombeenism’ or whatever, and that has brought us to where we are — so if you want to look after what you have, you vote. It was very easy to turn the Irish, the teachers and all the rest of them around on Haddington Road — because you look after what you have, and protesting doesn’t get you any money.
Trade unions
The trade union movement has been a major factor in the maintenance of the status quo. The reality is that there is no organisation in the country that can mobilise sufficient numbers of people to actually protest other than the trade union movement. Protests — such as they have been since the end of the Celtic Tiger or since the austerity started — if they muster four or five thousand people amongst a coalition of anti-water-charges or anti-household-tax people or whatever that would be a big protest. That’s just too small — and what the unions have tended to do is just flex their muscles, have one or two major rallies, show a bit of strength and then send people home.
A student fees protest in November 2011 [Marc Stedman/Photocall Ireland]
There’s no one easy answer as to why we haven’t seen ongoing mass protests.There are so many factors at play, including many Irish people putting their faith in Fine Gael and Labour at the last election. The unions are a traditional source of protest power but they’ve been focused on the likes of the Croke Park agreement — whereas the left wing parties are too small or don’t appeal to the masses for whatever reason. The emigration of 300,000 people over the last four years is a factor, as is the weakness of civic society organisations and their reluctance to speak out for fear of losing funding.
Fear is at the heart of inaction, fear that if we rock the boat we’ll be ridiculed, isolated or punished in some way. Too often protest is seen or made to be seen as something done by hippies, lefties or some sort of rent-a-crowd rather than as an important tactic used for generations by people like Daniel O’Connell, James Larkin, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, Mary Robinson and Michael D Higgins.
Protesters from Occupy Dame Street confront IMF economist Johan Mathisen in April 2012 [Photocall Ireland]
Many of our rights and freedoms are the result of people giving up their time to campaign for the rights of all. Our culture and education system has taught obedience and conformity and critical thinking has been discouraged. Many Irish people feel beaten down and a lot of the anger is being internalised and dealt with through alcohol, depression and, sadly, through an increasing suicide rate.As I said it’s a complex issue so it’s not black or white.
What can we learn from experience elsewhere?
I think the Icelandic people have gone a long way towards upholding their dignity as people. Their protests and movements may not have solved every problem but they have helped create major reforms and saved their economy from complete debt slavery. They can hold their head up high as a proud independent sovereign people.
The ‘Kitchenware Revolution’ in Iceland was instrumental in bringing down the administration that presided over the country’s 2008 financial meltdown [AP Photo/Brynjar Gauti]
The future
I do think Irish people are starting to question more and more and are beginning to speak out.I think the culture is changing where we realise that we all need to play an active role if we are to have a democracy that puts our interests before those of bankers and investors. Young people who have observed the work of Wikileaks, Manning and Snowden realise that radical change is needed. The next step has to be finding better ways of coming together, of joining forces to work on issues of common concern. We have to reclaim power as individuals, as communities and as a nation or we will continue to be walked on and lied to.
It’s a huge challenge but I believe we can do it if we choose to wake up and claim our power.
ICTU President Jack O’Connor speaks at a major union-led demonstration in November 2010 [Photocall Ireland]
I think it is explainable and quite explainable the levels of protest in Ireland relative to Greece or Spain or whatever.I think there’s a number of different factors but I think the most important factor, and its pretty dominant I’d say, is the question of the role of the trade union leadership in Ireland. We did have two very significant protests called by ICTU which then went nowhere. They went into Croke Park 2 and Haddington Road which amounted to defeat for people — for working class people who were opposed to austerity.
The key question is why there hasn’t been leadership by those who are meant to lead, who have the responsibility of leadership.
The end of the Celtic Tiger
Well I think there definitely was a major shock factor [when the recession started].It was a very big change from the Celtic Tiger to a very significant and deep crisis. Certainly, because of the Celtic Tiger many people would have hoped that ‘okay it’s going to be bad but hopefully we can quickly get out of it’.
At this stage I think that the shock factor is gone. Clearly we’re five years, five to six years really into the crisis. The main point I’d make is that, ultimately bad leadership by the trade union leaders will not be capable of stopping big protests happening. People are opposed to austerity.
Is the situation likely to change?
I think the most important way it will change is by people themselves moving to a situation of understanding that austerity has failed from the point of view of the majority of ordinary people, and it has worked from the point of view of the one percent in our society — the bond holders, the rich and so on.
Chris Malendewicz, who secured himself with a crook lock to a radiator in the Tax office on O’Connell Street in protest over the property tax back in May [Photocall Ireland]
We’re getting to a point where the people, the majority of people, feel the need to mobilise — I think you saw a little glimpse of that, without very huge protests on the streets, but nonetheless with massive participation and a certain element of protest on the streets, in the movement against the household tax for example. You did have fifteen/twenty thousand people protesting on a couple of occasions. I think it’s very difficult to say right now what will be the turning point that will mobilise a lot of people again, but I think it’s very difficult to see such a turning point not coming. It could be around the budget or it could be next year.I think the Government is likely to exit the bailout at the end of this year, but things aren’t going to get any better and in reality we will be in a sort-of second bailout. When that becomes clear to people, I think that can be an important turning point.
I think primarily it is an issue of a lack of leadership from trade unions, left political parties and civil society such as community groups, charities and NGOs. If we look at other countries like Iceland, Greece and Spain, these groups have played a key role in mobilising large numbers of people in protests.
Meath man Tony Rochford, who staged a hunger strike over the property tax earlier this year [Photocall Ireland]
I think the model of social partnership that dominated the way these groups interacted with the Government and the state through the Celtic Tiger means that they are now reluctant to be publicly critical and they have been incorporated into submission by the Irish State. I also think that there has been a lack of alternative strategies to austerity up until more recently, which has meant people are confused about what to protest for. Finally I think a lot of people had an expectation that the Labour/Fine Gael government would burn the bondholders and change things, and the trade unions are reluctant to protest against the Labour Party in Government.
The Iceland example
I think we can look at Iceland and see that they have got debt forgiveness at a national and household level. Huge numbers of people have had their mortgages written down.That’s because they protested and forced their government to do it. Similarly, in Greece, the country got a write down on its debt because the Greek people would not accept austerity. We can also learn from protest at home -from the parents who protested against the Special Needs Assistants cuts, the people who marched to save our forests, and the elderly who stopped their medical cards being taken away. The political class in this country doesn’t like people protesting in large numbers and it shows we have a power to change things if we want to.
Middle Ireland on the March: On 31 August last, Charlie Allen of the Rodolphus Trust led about 250 people in a bid to retake the Kennycourt Stud Farm in Kildare from receivers acting for the IBRC [Photocall Ireland]
Change?
I think that there is change taking place. How can it not? Young people are facing unemployment rates of 30 per cent and thousands are emigrating. There is no job security any more. New public servants are on a lower wage. Rents are massively inflated again and people can’t access mortgages. That’s not to mention the illegimate debt that has been placed on our shoulders.The left significantly increased its vote in the last election, but then Labour went into government and the opportunity of a left-led opposition was lost. Sinn Féin and the ULA are likely to significantly increase their support in the next election. Will Sinn Féin do what Labour have done and squander another opportunity for fundamental change by going into Government with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael? I think young people have to stand up and demand more radical changes to this country.
considering ive skipped through three quarters of that id say laziness!
Divided we fall……..urban against rural, public sector against private sector, untrusted union leadership. Nobody in the country has managed to unite the sectors to enable mass protest to take place.
The protest on OConnell bridge on Wednesday before last was a resounding success.
If you are from the real ira
Thats intentional.
The headline asks, why don’t we protest more. The reason, I’m guessing is that anytime there is a protest, the majority of people – especially on here, scoff at them and tell them to get a job. A case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t!
Absolutely! And also the fact that we borrow billions to pay the social welfare bill, billions to pay public sector bill and billions to pay public pensions. These are the people who have the time to take to streets but their essential needs are taken care of. Ibother words, they are not hungry enough. The middle, coping classes are too busy keeping their heads above water to take to the streets, they don’t have the time, and their priorities are survival,for which they only look to themselves.
Here’s plenty of good ways to peacefully protest if anyone is interested and looking for ideas.
Manchester today http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/pictures-video-50000-join-manchester-6110129
We are a disgrace really
They want to save the NHS. But they cannot afford it. £110 billion this year to run it, £130 billion next year. It’s unsustainable. The NHS will be gone in 10 years. Those that can afford to pay will have to.
You could get over the not protesting but voting for the austerity treaty was pretty shamefully, I would not be shocked if we are stupid enough to give up democracy a little more by getting rid of sheanad and shamefully speeding up repossessions and poverty by voting for dodgy bankers court. We even accept blatant corruption like joe Costellos wife in Europe unelected and his sister in law given judges job. We have Sean Ryan in high court with no due process blatant misguided corruption. Stupid doesn’t cover it.
I get E3.775/hr for 40 hr week on social welfare, where is the incentive not to work there? I did protest, indeed was one of half a dozen when the IMF marched into town. There were no unfortunate working class or middle willing to fight their corner.
Give my head peace. The reason why Irish people won’t protest is clearly demonstrated by the content of the comments posted here.
The people who are taking the brunt are the low paid who can’t take time away from their jovs because they won’t be paid , they are working longer hours and just don’t have the time to go out on the streets. The other sectors in the community are still doing well and maintaining the standard of living they always had !
Ireland has gone to the dogs.
People who would take a stand would be and are attacked from the sidelines by others who should be marching alongside them! We all know those people.
The government and their families live in another world, they are not concerned with any interests other than their own. History has shown us that this and the previous government are more inclined to follow the orders and wishes of foreign banks, businesses and governments rather than the people who elected them.
The bailouts, repayments of unsecured bonds, the complete and utter BS rhetoric from Kenny telling europe that the irish people ”lived beyond their means”, the attacks on the most vulnerable in society cutting the disability payments, severing funding to vital sectors and services, hijacking the high emigration figure to fool people that the unemployment numbers are going down thanks to their work, the anglo tapes and not one prosecution of any of the leading architects of this mess…. Honestly people have been killed for less.
Ireland is a wonderful country but run but incompetent, corrupt puppets who are nothing more than lapdogs and instead of fighting for the people they are meant to represent, many politicians look to appease and gather praise from those really running the show in europe.
I return to Ireland every year to see family friends and enjoy the wonders of our great country but i will more than likely never return to live there. Too much potential found elsewhere.
We don’t protest because it requires thinking. We Irish will do almost anything to avoid that. Because someone might ask us why we think what we do. And we don’t know.
We have become a country of mé féinners basically and are easily bought my the mainstream media message and political spin. Simples
its because there is a silence from the media only facebook users n
knew about it
Not only do most Irish people not protest, they heckle, abuse and poke fun at anyone who does.
I was involved in Occupy Dame Street, and I had to spend much of my time fending off charges that I was a lazy, dole scamming crustie (I had a haircut you could set your watch by, and had never drawn welfare), or answering questions as to why we weren’t out in the poor neighbourhoods mobilizing the masses there.
There was quite a bit of solidarity from many members of the public, but the most vocal were malicious, nasty and extremely negative – especially the country folk.
God bless Iceland. The people there are an inspiration.
I was there when they were protesting in Iceland. Ordinary people stayed protesting beating their pots and pans 24 hours a day in the square outside parliament.
I also remember thinking that this would not happen in Ireland. They were furious and seemed to grasp the consequences of what happened so much quicker and better than we did.
People didn’t protest because of Stupidity and Comfortable Farmers, Cut grants and EU funding then see what happens.
I just love Jack O’Connor fighting for the ordinary workers rights on his 128k salary !! Yes lads 2.4 grand a week !!!
Closer to 370k when the perks
are added on
get a space on xfactor ads to tell the country. Would it get them off their asses?
He is a horrible man. Can’t stand him.
he no were hjs bread and butter is the sap was part of siptu all my life put don’t like them now
I went on the march against the banks a few years back and remember people out shopping getting very angry with us because we had occupied the road and they couldn’t cross…that along with car drivers not looking impressed. These people live in their own bubbles and more likely don’t take any interest in the news or politics. Sat at home every night watching soaps and sport…too many ill informed zombies that’s the problem
I agree Paul, the problem is people with plenty of money don’t see any recession, if you are retired PS worker on a 50k pension with no mortgage – then the recession has virtually no effect on your standard of living in fact, because some of the prices have come down your are Better off !!! Go figure
Like yourself
i work ,pay my taxes but will continue to protest as often as i can against the injustice done to the irish people..this is not our debt
Eh but it is
What about us? The Ballyhea Says no group has been the most consistent protest against the bank debt and resulting consequences and has been joined by groups in ratoath, Tralee, Dublin, west cork, clonmel, nenagh, Kilkenny, Killarney, limerick, Donegal etc etc Media ignores! On top of taking protest to Brussels, we met ECB officials. Did Irish media report? no.We submitted petition to European Parliament. Only the Irish Examiner covered it. Lots of Irish people are protesting and mainstream media ignores-doesn’t mean it isn’t happening
Im sure the Icelandic people had jobs 2 and still protested. Also when people say we were all partying during the Celtic tiger thats bullshit used by the d4 contingent to justify their ostentatious and sickening lifestyles at the expense of ordinary irish working class
fair play to yuod i will post your facbook page,
Trade unions are totally ineffectual in organizing protest events. It’s overpaid leaders are rightly perceived as being part of the gombeen element that has infected every element of Irish life. The inability to explain and properly account for the €4.4 million SIPTU Slush Fund which was used in a manner that would put the most junket addicted politician to shame has shown this in stark detail. There’s also the perception that a less active approach has been adopted by union management in the hope that the investigation by the Public Accounts Committee (Political Establishment) into the misuse of these funds might be toned down.
All in all the position of the unions in effectively representing the interests of it’s members & the public has been usurped by the greed of union management.
Oh, some unions close connection with the Labour Party don’t help a lot either!
I was going to make a passionate plea for more direct protest, but X Factor is still on. I’ll get around to it……
We’ll wait. It’ll be grand.
That book on the soul of Irish indifference sounds really interesting. Can’t wait to read it. I think the author identified a key Irish trait. On the outside we seem very friendly and emotional but at the end of the day we do just care about number one. We don’t have a strong sense of collective responsibility.
Id say it’s more that we see a reality. I mean what good had it done the greeks or Spanish? Egypt was stupid example Muslims protest if you look sideways from Mecca
We got ourselves into this as a society. Yes im talking to you mr selling my house in 06 for 450k when it was 50k punts when you got it. People bleeding people dry. Banks being epically greedy and forcing prices up but 100% mortgages.
WE ALL SCREWED UP and we all have to pay the piper. Sure its unfair as that person who took 450k off you has no mortgage and feeling no pain like you or me. Sure the developers have been left walk. How do you get justice? You vote, better yet spoil vote. If the vast vsdt majority spoiled votes in election its voids it and then you see sweating ;)
But petrol bombs at police fueling extremist and false hope parties like golden dawn in Greece or SF here does not help and only prolongs it. Do you see Germans protesting? No they just get out and work and turn country into the power house it is less then a century are bring decimated.
Is that you Edna?
I was never involved in a 440bn bailout to save the Irish elite.
You can shove your we are all to blame up your jacksy.
SF an extremist party? And Germans do protest about many issues.their unemployment is the lowest of any European country & their exports are doing well.they are benefitting off everyone else’s misery.the quicker the EUSSR collapses the better for the rest of the countries.even though Germans are doing well many still want their Deutsch mark back.
Guardian, what about those of us who didnt buy or sell property then?
We ALL partied….
Maybe you did. I wasn’t even in the goddam country, and those who will be paying this off weren’t even born.
Go wear your chains somewhere else Matt Talbot….
The greeks got a write down on it’s debts. The spanish got a much better deal than the irish. It’s bank debts were not added to it’s national debt.
And what about people who believe in peaceful protest?
Plenty of peaceful protests that worked here
Ah Hakuin Murphy !
Seeing through FG , FF, Labor Recession propaganda.
Lesson 1:-
Some of us may have partied…but partied their way into private debt !
All during the septic tiger we had very low levels of public or ‘sovereign’ debt. The Irish Exchequer was rich up to the ball out.
Bailing out the banks bankrupt the country – now we have massive ‘Public debt’….That’s why there is such massive cut backs and austerity- due to THE BANK BAILOUT…not because individual levels of debt.
Yes but they didn’t guaranteed their banks to 440 beeeeeelion did they?
i was in Germany during the summer ,points i noted all the supermarkets are closed on sundays ,including aldi ,lidi, most garages are closed ,as sunday is considered a family day ,you are not allowed to work on bank holidays ,so where people get the idea that the germans work 24/7 i dont know ,I DID NOT PARTY during the septic tiger ,no foreign holidays ,or shopping trips to new york ,but we the people are paying for the stupidity and the greed of the few ,bankers ,politicians ,senior civil servants most who have been paid off with big pensions ,,any other country there would be a revolution ,the fighting irish ,ha maybe with drink in them
Eh, a servile media? A media implicated and intrinsically tied up in property itself for investment didn’t appear on the list? The fact the IT bought Myhome.ie for 50 million, Daft owns the Journal {I think} so the property market is equally if not more important. Crosbie holdings much the same. How odd that would be missing from the above list eh?
when the dole gets cut then you see
Yep. Never ceases to amaze me these days why a majority of people seem to be just sitting on their hands and sucking up every ounce of the extra layers of double and some times treble taxation which this present arrogant administration has thrown at them for the last five years and continues to throw at them. One case in point of double taxation if the LPT (Local Property Tax). An unjust, unfair and immoral tax on Family Homes which takes no account of ability to pay. The forerunner of LPT was the hated and ever upward moving Domestic Rates which an earlier generation saw the back of through relentless political protest. Protest against Domestic Rates was so strong and so sustained that at the point of their eventual abolition not one Political Party nor one Independent TD in Dail Eireann had any fundamental objection to their removal. In the wake of the removal of Domestic Rates VAT Rates were moved up several percentage points to compensate for cessation of revenue from rates. Were VAT rates reduced in tandem with the introduction of LPT? I think not. Hence: DOUBLE TAXATION. LPT was a political choice plain and simple. There were revenue generating alternatives but this administration chose to ignore them in favour of easier targets i.e. middle and lower income families. What was clearly identified as being an unjust, unfair and immoral tax by a previous generation has absolutely no justification for being back on the stature again. There have indeed been protests by various groupings against this financial blood sucking LPT but unfortunately not large enough nor sustained enough to be taken seriously. It won’t be long before yet another double taxation will be heading our way in the form of water charges, a service which you already pay for through existing taxation. I can remember massive protest marches back in the 1980′s; marches which had impact and were noticed. When will the tipping point for this era arrive? When will the sleeping giant of people power awake from its slumber?
Because of work commitments and my kids I just can’t make it to protests! I’ve been to local ones about non closure of A&E but other than that I just can’t make the time to travel to Dublin!
Why are people not out cos those of us who are lucky to have jobs need them and are working more hours to keep them.
The irish don’t protest because the only ones suffering through this recession have to work every day and haven’t the time.
Next election will be interesting.
That’s the sleeping giant the government is ignoring.
And my guess is they will vote FF back in. Let’s just wait and see.
Don’t think so FF, FG, Greens and Labour have destroyed this country.Greed and self interest.
Politics in this country stinks.
Be interesting to see what happens. FF seem to be back and are currently holding their support at the same level as FG at around 27%. Sinn Féin will likely poll 20% of the vote and could pick up a lot of transfers. So will FF go into gov with Sinn Féin or into gov with FG where they would be the minority party and if they have learnt anything from recent times the small party in gov doesn’t do too well.
A FF led gov with Sinn Féin is a real possibility.
That leaves SF.
There is no “sleeping giant” Damien. Not in this country. The only people who can protest in this country without being savaged by everyone else are the farmers, and to a lesser extent the disabled and the elderly. I am not criticizing these groups, fair play yo them,merely stating a fact. Even on this comment board people continually call for protest and an equal or greater number slag them for doing so. Add to that the absence of any social solidarity, each segment of society having been set against the other, and our masters have won -they have a completely cowed and beaten population. Fear is our enemy, fear of looking foolish, fear of disapproval etc. The Icelanders probably knew they looked stupid but they got their message across to their own shower of shitbags.
Independents.
Getting elected to the Dail is like winning the lottery nice to give the cash wind fall to independents they can’t do any worst than what’s there at the moment.
Independents are a waste of time in general. Mick Wallace et al. They will never offer a lot. Most of them are voted in on local issues. I read in the Sunday Times today how FG/Labour senators are up in arms with Enda’s proposal to scrap the Seanad and are threatening to delay all legislation after/if the Seanad is abolished. FG could be killing the retirement home of their existing TDs.
Well said have to agree with you doesn’t give us much hope.
They’ll all be on €3000 a week after the next election so won’t be bothered about winning seats just like the last outgoing Gov !
The crowd we have at the moment are doing a great job.
Don’t you realise yet that the election is just part of the bread and circuses routine? Look at what happened last time. Some big change, yeah right!
The protest is happening every day silently through the mass emigration of those who already have jobs . That silent revolution is louder than any protest outside Leinster House
I know 4 people that left Ireland in the last 2 years and they all had a job before they left.
To many, it isn’t worthwile making a ‘living’ in order to live to work, be taxed to the hilt and have meagre services and ameanities etc for the displeasure!
Silence is exactly what the government requires…out of sight out of mind…
Lazy. Sadly.
Plus I don’t like pepper spray.
The Gards are the enforcers for the government and not the protectors of the citizens, which means that, any protest is met with the threat of violence and arrest at the government’s will. That is of course when they are not collecting revenue for the same government in tax checkpoints etc. All so that there is more money to hand over to the Germans like the good little servants that we are. Normal people who have jobs are trying to earn enough money to pay our taxes and bills ave no money left at the end of every week or month for anything else at all. Income tax may not have risen but we are veryng drowned in new taxes and increases on others outstrip our ability to earn enough money to pay them leading to the inexorable road to criminalising the population in general.
I’ll happily pay more tax, to teach you to punctuate your sentences!
Is it because despite austerity, peoples circumstances are still better than those in Iceland, Greece or Spain. That even in the face of cuts, when compared to other PIG country’s, Irish people fare better. In other words, is it possible, it could be worse…
Who are you trying to fool???
@ Ryan, look at how the Spanish and Greeks are faring, their unemployment rate is twice ours. They don’t have such a generous welfare state supporting the less well off. Iceland has its own central bank and currency so any comparison is nonsense. They could do a lot of their deleveraging externally, we can’t.
Couldn’t agree more OReilly, we automatically make it out to be a bad thing that we are all not out protesting.
But for me it seems completely and utterly obvious, the standard of living is still high enough to be simply not too bothered.
And I really can’t see how that can be a bad thing.
Where there is serious poverty in this country, there was during the boom anyway.
Where there are people who have been highly affected, they may not have time, which kind of tells me they still have more important things in their life to worry about. And frankly I think that’s a good thing.
And one last point, we are all in this messy situation together, no matter who caused it, as much as we are tempted to blame blame blame, we have shown a great deal or dignity in not firing petrol bombs at guards.
PS, before you judge me I attended several protests from 2008 to 2011 and this is when I started to form this opinion.
Far too simplistic Adrian.
The answer is very simple. No leader. No one individual for people to rally behind. Every film needs a director. We don’t have one.
Probably one reason is that irish people are great keyboard warrior’s. They will protest and complain online at locations like the journal.ie (often anonymously under a fake profile by the way) but not out on the street. Probably a mixture of embarrassment, apathy and a realisation that not much can be achieved since the troika are in charge.
Wrecking cities won’t help anyone.
I don’t think that is said anywhere in the article, unless I missed it?
Its been a shit five years but we will come back bigger, better and stronger
Its simple,pack of whingers who are much happier to whinge and moan and fight amongst themselves than do anything productive.
I think leadership is definitely an issue. No person on the Left has the sort of charisma to attract people and make them question what is happening. We are also coming off a base where everyone was doing pretty well.
Even if you are not working the dole is still very attractive for many people. The cost of food is also low – a weekly shop in Aldi for €50. You can buy 20 bottles of beer in the same place for the same price. Why would you need to protest?
I think people are unsure of what cost and burden we should bear? Should we bear the burden of Anglo or the other banks – as afterall they were our own banks.
I do agree with a point above about the media. Media plays a huge role in initiating these things yet the media were one of the central players in the whole mess. They gorged on property advertising during the boom – a property supplement in the paper every day and a property editor. RTE running shows about buying property abroad.
I think in Ireland we have never had a true Left in terms of politics. Even the Labour party has never reached out into the countryside and have always relied on transfers to elect people.
I also don’t think it is cool among young people to discuss politics or their economy. Pop culture and football are the religions.
I think a lot of people also understand that there is no game in town until we balance our budget and the 5 year plan of cuts prepared people for that. Whether people will be prepared for what follows we will have to see.
@ tigerisinthezoo, anglo and the other banks were NOT ‘our banks ‘ they were privitly run institutions, run for shereholders profits and not for the good of the people, like any other private business they should have been left to go to the wall. the bank debt is NOT THE PEOPLES DEBT it was forced upon the people by incompetent and cowerdly government ministers who are more interested in keeping their cozy relationship with the financial institutions and the european gravy train than serving the people of this country.
Most of us know blocking trafic achieves nothing more than a trafic jam. Perhaps the public is too smart to bother.
Yawn..,,,,,
A big one.
jackasses and two big ones at that ye are
Personally I think the reason why we the Irish don’t protest more apart from the fact there’s less of us here to protest is because it’s the fear of getting arrested and been vilified in your local newspaper or made look like a tool in court or if you do protest the protest becomes unruly because certain groups and sections of society see it better to be violent rather than bang pots
Take for example the protesters who protest outside that manky fur shop opp Molly Malones
1 they regularly get arrested
2 intimidated by gardai
3 recording equipment seized
4 brought to court and fined
5 stared at and looked down on probably by some reading this now
We all feel strongly about protesting and would like to but in reality from where I live to Dublin in €20 return on bus that €20 is better used paying a bill than protesting and for what
NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE UNLESS WE CHANGE IT OURSELVES
ITS TIME FOR CHANGE !!!!
Lame & limp…. The irish never protested, apart from 1916, which was a complete buck up, they are quiet happy to be led astray or up and down the garden path…. Depending on the hangover….
1916 uprising was carried out by a comparatively tiny group of people who didn’t have the support of the public and in fact were spat upon by the public after they were captured.
Why protest more, when you get buckets of money for sitting on your Tod.
What are you on, man and what’s the colour of the sky, in your world?
I’m certainly not in the 1% bracket but I wishb the 99% people would stop lumping us alltogether, don’t want them Repsenting me
I personally would protest for the right to save for your future and have those savings as secure as possible and to provide for your children’s future
Disillusion with the political system as a whole and a hangover from english colonialism….the prevailing attitude is a shrug of the shoulders followed by what can we do about it
To much fluoride in the water .
This does wonders for subduing the mass’s and kills the rebelliousness of the person and mind…
Do not comment to this statement unless you have done some research on what I’m talking about.
There is NO need for fluoridation in water It is no good for your teeth either,
look at the States in the good ole US of A where the majority of peoples are African American,
The governments also keeps the Blacks down by Fluoride, Pumping drugs into their communities, dividing and conquering the Mass’s,
as I have said earlier, please do not comment on this statement unless you have a working brain !!!
if you all remember,thousands of people lost their jobs only in recent year and are still losing jobs..If you still have a job,well good for you,Your the lucky ones..But remember if things go on the way they are,and nothing is done about it..You could be the next person Queing up for your dole very soon.And not by choice like ye seem to think people on the dole are doing?And getting back about going out protesting .what is going on in this country affects everyone.So everyone should be out standing together against this government.!!
Oh Linda. Oh dearie me. You can see the “big “picture” and it’s implications. Expect to be torn apart by the journalistas for daring to air such a view in public. Ten green thumbs from me. (I plucked that figure out of my ‘arris).
PART 2-2
Then there was a global financial crash and the Celtic Tiger was gone. The recession hit everyone (with the exception of the super rich) but as the Celtic Tiger had inflated most people’s livelihoods there was a drop in everyone’s future. People started losing their businesses. This pushed many of the working class people who had moved up to middle class back to working class and it also created an employment vacuum. The amount of jobs available bombed while the number of people looking for work skyrocketed. This pushed many people who had been totally self sufficient to seek financial support from the government. Most of middle class were hit by the recession too but the majority weathered the storm and kept their heads just above water therefore keeping their businesses. Later as the recession eased people started spending again so the middle class business owners started to see people spending. So the middle class don’t hurt as much as the working class do right now. So now the middle class will not protest and as is human nature they are critical of anyone jeopardising the recovery that they are seeing in their businesses. Now we have a situation with regard to protesting where, as many commenters on here have pointed out, you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. The super rich elite have us fighting amongst ourselves and as long as this continues our situation will never change.
Ireland is a Conformist society, some of this is due to Catholicism, some due to Colonialism. Protest is seen as immature, supporting the status quo as “grown-up”. We should also acknowledge that we are Conservative and Right-wing in our political views and deeply cynical in our attitudes to the whole concept of movement to a fairer society, which is seen as a pipe-dream. We are anti-intellectual and much of this stems from the fact that we are not really that intelligent, as a people and are not introduced to critical thinking in our schools and colleges. Our blanket dismissal of any critique of the elite as “begrudgery” has always infuriated me and whenever I come up against this attitude, I tend to give up, feeling that a hive mind like that is not susceptible to reason or logic.
Spot on Emmett. We are an anti-intellectual, macho-peasant society with all the trivial baggage and childish concerns associated with that mindset. Dare to stand out from the herd and you are vilified. Starts with the sneering, “would ye look at yer man, who the F&€K does he think he is”? Irish people are a lost cause, easy marks for any shyster who rolls into town in a shiny suit and a neat line in plámás. The banks, the “Troika”, the government etc are only warming up. Austerity hasn’t hit Ireland. Yet. The Irish people are going to be financially massacred in the near future and will march obediently to the abattoir with nothing more than a grumble, all the while tugging their forelocks in deference. As usual.
PART 1-2
It’s not just the Irish that won’t protest. It’s becoming to norm to rant and forget. And the internet is playing a big part in this. Am I protesting if I make a page on Facebook? This appears to be the new protest tool of choice but getting frustration across in text form on a digital forum seems to distance the reader from the emotional content while still giving the illusion of having done something. Now don’t get me wrong, I firmly believe social media is a powerful tool in a protesters arsenal but every tool has a specific use and it is up to us to find the best way to use this.
Divide and conquer! This is the simple (yet extremely effective) answer to this articles question. You have to give it to the money men, they played a stormer and have driven a major wedge between the two main social classes that could destabilize there financial stranglehold over us all. Just looking at Ireland, the Celtic Tiger was great. There were jobs and opportunities available to anyone who went out and grabbed them. This allowed a lot of working class people to get ahead of the game a little and slowly move themselves up to middle class. They(we) opened businesses and were helping build a prosperous future. At the same time the middle class were reaping the rewards of having had there businesses previously established. They were good times.
But the Celtic Tiger was truly a Paper one. House prices went further and further out of the reach of people and this was somehow seen as a good thing, as the cost of goods and services rose by the week. The Celtic Tiger was not a good time, it was a self delusional period of mass stupidity and idiocy.
i sent photos of protest outside banker alan dukes home to the journal and some of its reporters ,you never published them ,,so its a bit rich off you asking people why they dont protest ,,,when you dont give publicity to the protests ,,are you another tame media lapdog for the government ,???
There are other ways of protesting without having to stand around in the cold and rain, shouting at TD’s that take no notice of you. The most obvious (and Irish) way is to punish them in the next election. But since Irish people are contiously duped into voting for eejit A or eejit B at every election it is utterly pointless what way you vote. One way would be to completely boycott voting. In doing so you deprive “your” local TD of vital votes to keep his cushy seat, actually forcing him to do some work to keep it.
Other ways would be to head on down to his local office and voice your displeasure in person, or better yet bring your friends along and their friends too… oh and your video camera to mark the occasion on youtube.
Or why not do what would annoy him even more, and actually run for his seat yourself, I can think of few things more worrying for a TD than losing his/her seat and therefore getting bumped off the gravy train. Even if you don’t get it, at least you made his job a lot harder and actually made him do something for a change. A boycott on unfair taxes and charges is another way to protest, as are small acts of civil disobedience.
Remember, protesting isn’t all about holding a sign and shouting outside the Dail, it can be simple things that make the Government see you’re not happy with the way things are being run. It us that holds all the power in the country, not some eejit keeping a chair warm in the Dail!
If we look back on history the Irish people weren’t supportive of the 1916 rising it was only when they shot the leaders of the rising that woke the sleeping giant …… Protests over Vietnam were ignored by the government until 4 protesters were killed during a protest ………. Something big needs has to happen to wake the people up
Also remember that 1916 occurred in Dublin, the rest of the country was not really involved.
The 1916 rising was planned countrywide, A mix up confined it to Dublin. And many who fought and died in Dublin were from outside the Pale.
There is another reason, I believe, that has not been mentioned here and is a major factor in why people in Ireland do not properly protest in the streets against the government banks etc. A good friend was visiting from South Africa and made a very interesting observation about our current way of life.
Men and women have been drummed down and are almost hypnotised into being zombies by two major factors. Families have become obsessed with all the pathetically poor reality TV shows, X factors, soaps etc and are much more interested in staying indoors to watch this rubbish and taking an interest in what’s happening in the country.
Men in particular are tied up in all sorts of sporting events and that becomes much more important to watch on television than to watch a programme about our economic decline. Families no longer sit together and have meals and proper discussions about how things are going and what things are affecting them as a family. They now sit around the television and never talk about important factors in their lives. Reality for them is now what is happening on the television in all these rubbish programs or sports reports.
People just do not stop for five minutes and think about what they can do to help themselves, their families and neighbours and our country. Sooner or later we will have to tackle the incompetent idiots who govern our country and run the banks. These two categories of Idiots are now at the very bottom of the social ladder just above paedophiles and murderers but just under the legal profession.
Time is coming soon when we will have to protest or be walked on – please stop and think.
Nobody represents the people, the political parties the civil service and the trade unions are all really sitting on the same side of the self interest fence. The business class were right in there with them with a lack of oversight from the relevant state bodies. Now it protect as much as you can and the people outside this grouping can pay for it. Who’s to lead when all our ” leaders” have a their own survival invested in the status Que.
have your say