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Update 13 August 2014: Since this article was published, one of the public toilets in Dublin has been demolished. Read more here.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of them stands locked and empty now, but just a few decades ago Dublin’s public toilets – or, to give them their official name, public conveniences – were an integral part of the city’s landscape.
If you have visited Dublin even once, you have probably walked past one. You may not have noticed the wrought iron gate; the steps that lead below ground; the once-gleaming white and blue tiles.
With some, the piles of discarded drinks bottles and urban detritus would catch your eye before the beautifully-curved walls do. Others, with their neat redbrick walls, blend in perfectly with their surroundings.
These once-busy facilities may as well be invisible, for all the attention they receive from passers-by.
The underground toilet at Kevin St, just off New Street South. Pic: Aoife Barry/TheJournal.ie
Public Convenience
The buildings stretch from Harolds Cross to Howth, including areas like Mountjoy Square, Glasnevin, Sandymount, Terenure, Dolphin’s Barn, and Infirmary Road. The O’Connell St facility was demolished when the street was redeveloped. These are relics of a different time, a different Ireland.
Hugh Coughlan, who works for Dublin City Council, told TheJournal.ie that the capital’s public toilets have a long history. Their journey from use to disuse reflects how Irish society has evolved over the past 100 years.
In the Ireland of the late 19th century, not every home had an indoor loo – or even a toilet at all. Cars were not as widely available, and people walked or cycled around the city. It took longer, therefore, to go from one part of the city to another. Add to this the smaller number of restaurants and cafés, the absence of yet-to-be-imagined supermarkets, and you can see why public conveniences needed to be, well, so convenient.
As time moved on, particularly in the mid-20th century, the use of public toilets began to change. More businesses opened that offered facilities to customers; more people began to use cars; the use of public conveniences began to fall to fewer groups of people.
Staff
Each toilet block required staff – at one stage there were up to 400 people working as toilet attendants in the capital – and they, of course, needed to be paid. But by the 1980s, Ireland was in the grip of a recession, and Dublin City Council was looking at ways of tightening its belt. Such buildings, which had begun to attract drug users and other antisocial behaviour, were a drain on resources.
Said Coughlan:
There were at least – approximately – 70 toilets in the 50s and 60s, and then it started to flip from the 70s onwards, as restaurants and bars and the shopping centre model started to emerge. They started to be less utilised, particularly on the outskirts of the city.
The gateway into the public convenience on Kevin St. Pic: Aoife Barry/TheJournal.ie
“In the late 70s and early 80s, finances were quite tight,” said Coughlan of the council. “We were in real recessionary times. The [employment] moratoriums were introduced as well.”
It became apparent that a lot of these were difficult to manage and also expensive to manage. There were issues raised with gardaí in terms of the facilities. Some of them didn’t necessarily lend themselves to personal safety.
It seemed to make sense, for all of these reasons, to close these toilets. The doors of Victorian and Edwardian buildings, once used by large numbers of now long-dead men and women, were locked. Some became used as storerooms, but the majority lie empty.
“People tend to jump on the anti social side, but that is one element of it,” said Coughlan of the closures. “There was the changing dynamic of the city as well.”
As recently as 1990, there were still 33 staff working as public toilet attendants, and a number of higher-profile facilities remained open for part of the 90s, such as those on O’Connell St and Stephen’s Green. But these too were eventually closed.
Ballsbridge public toilets. Photo: Infomatique/Flickr
Bye Laws and construction
The Dublin City Council Bye Laws on Public Conveniences from 1899 under the Public Health (Ireland) Act 1878 give a look at what was allowed in these conveniences.
People could be fined up to £5 in court for committing one of a number of offences while using the facilities. These included:
Males aged over five were not allowed into the women’s toilets, while females of any age were not allowed to enter the men’s toilets.
A look at the minutes of the Municipal Council of the City of Dublin from 1900 gives a glimpse into how these toilets came to be constructed. The Public Health Committee was the group responsible for organising the construction, and in the case of the Parkgate St and Sherrard St toilets, for example, they submitted a report on putting out the tenders for the buildings.
The toilets were to be underground, and the tenders specified that preference would be given to contractors undertaking to use Irish material in the construction. They received four tenders for the sanitary work, ranging from £392 to £513, and went for the cheapest, which was tendered by John L Smallman.
For the building work, they received just one tender, from William Gray (£1,645), who had previously worked on the Berkeley Road underground convenience, and, said the report, “turning out an excellent class of work”.
Spencer Harty was the city engineer and surveyor in 1900. The committee specified to both men whose tenders were accepted that they should only employ ‘legitimate labour, and pay not less than the minimum standard rate of wages’. Smallman wrote back, on 10 April 1900, from his premises on 48 Lower Sackville St (O’Connell St), while WM Gray wrote from his base in Drumcondra on 9 April 1900. Both accepted the job.
A urinal on Ormond Quay, 1969. Copyright National Library of Ireland
In the 1899 minutes of the Municipal Council of Dublin City, the Public Health Committee said that "urgent representations" had been made to them about the "necessity of providing sanitary accommodation for the use of the public on the North Circular Road, in the neighbourhood of Sherrard St".
Alderman Doyle and Sir Charles Cameron inspected the locality and recommended that an underground convenience be constructed at the intersection by the Upper and Lower Sherrard St, 'Belvidere' (sic) Place and 'Belvidere' (sic) Avenue.
They decided on this "after mature consideration", and were "satisfied that the construction of an underground convenience at this place will supply a long-felt want". This was only to be for males only, and they anticipated it "will prove a big success".
On 24 May 1899, it was decided that the two WCs, four urinal stalls and two washhand basins, as well as the attendants' room, would cost an estimated £750. According to P Dowd, the chairman, the average weekly revenue from the underground conveniences already established in the city was £685, which was sufficient "to defray the cost of attendance and maintain the urinals and lavatories in proper order and, in addition, leaves a small balance to credit".
The minutes of the Municipal Council in March 1900 show that a planned underground convenience for New Street, similar to the one on College St, would cost an estimated £870 to construct. Spencer Harty recommended that it had to be kept 4ft above the level of the street, as otherwise it would be flooded.
When the Public Health Committee put out a tender for urinals in 1865, they estimated it would cost £200. They received five tenders, two from Glasgow companies and one from a Kirkintillock company, the others from Dublin.
They received a letter from the Glasgow company, emphasising that their quote was the lowest, that the "class of work we supply is inferior to none" and that they employ "a very large number of Irishman in our works", so the "goods will be of Irish manufacture".
Another report from the Public Health Commiteee in the 1860s concerned the sketch plans of a 'chalet de nécessité', which included 'a kiosque for the sale of newspapers'. The committee recommended permission be given, as they "are of the opinion that it will encourage the use of the chalets for the general public". It appears that people's bathroom reading habits perhaps haven't changed much in the past 150 years...
The future
A side view of the underground toilets at Kevin St. Pic: Aoife Barry/TheJournal.ie
Could any of the public conveniences be opened again in the future? Never say never. The toilet at Stephen's Green is owned by the Office of Public Works, but could potentially be opened to the public if the City Council take another licence agreement on it.
The Lansdowne toilet is just used as a storeroom, while the College Green toilet has been used for air noise monitoring, and there were "advanced" plans to build an overground structure. But due to the Luas interconnector line, those plans were scrapped. Still, there remains the possibility that it could be used as a café, with a number of interested groups having contacted the City Council about it in the past, and "advanced discussions" having taken place. At one stage, it was even used as a site for an art exhibition by Dorothy Cross.
When the last of the buildings were closed down, the council put automated public conveniences in place. They were initially seen as a cost-effective solution, with no staff needed. But the jury is out as to whether they really were as cost-effective as envisaged.
The one on O’Connell Bridge, for example, had to be removed due to "serious issues", including drug use.
What next?
The side of the Kevin St underground convenience. Pic: Aoife Barry/TheJournal.ie
Because of the lack of public facilities in the city, the council has developed a policy document outlining three measures. These are:
With the latter, the council has already been in touch with around 10 interested parties, and is hoping to run a pilot scheme. The users of such public toilets today would mainly be tourists, people visiting rather than living in Dublin.
There are no firm plans, but the council does get expressions of interest about some of the public toilet buildings from time to time. The doors are shut, but it seems the options are certainly open.
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Guy once told me he met the caretaker in the jacks that used to be on Burgh Quay near O’Connell Bridge. Said he asked the guy what it was like working there. “Nightmare,” he said. “Nothing but druggies coming in to inject. Dealers floggin’ their heroin, shoplifters gettin’ rid of labels off the stolen goods and people having sex. Honestly. If someone comes in for a sh!te, it’s like a breath of fresh air….”
That’s the funiest comment I have read in a long time thanks paddy :-)
Now that is a classic!
The loo near the Trinity College should be re-opened. Toilets in pubs in the viccinity are open for customers only. So if you just pass by this busy city centre spot, you can either sneak into one of those ‘for partrons only’ feeling guilty of the ‘offence’ or buy a drink and then legally use one ;).
They legally cannot refuse someone use of a toilet.ever seen a member of a certain group in Ireland been refused..?the law covering this is well used and all business know it exists they might have a sign up but will back down if challenged
Or, perhaps those pubs might consider the partnership with the city and make them available to all. We’re very Catholic that breaking that rule makes us so uneasy. Made me smile in empathy, that.
IN sligo recently changing buses and was dying for a pee; nobody would let me go. There was only a ten min. break so before I knew it I was back on the bus still full of píss. Shameful.
@Khaosan Roche, it might be of interest to you that Sligo’s public toilets are located 135 miles away in a warehouse in Walkinstown, Dublin! Sligo Borough Council have been waffling on about where to put it for years. (Somewhere in the county for a start!) It’s an absolutely ridiculous situation and that’s not even mentioning the cost for storing it.
Dublin is one big toilet
Interesting fact: We now have the worlds tallest urinal on O’Connell st.
Theres a girl in London who bought one and turned it into her home. Amazing what she did with it.
I seen that . It’s amazing. Dcc or the opw could sell these buildings and make a few bob for the coffers. It’s a good idea but the powers that be will think otherwise as usual
Great article Aoife, I’d love to see more of these kind of stories on The Journal, the history is fascinating!
Here’s the link to that article Les: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/9461916/From-public-loo-to-private-home.html) Unfortunately though it looks like Alicia is right. Having seen how much bureaucracy Laura Clark went through in London, I wonder if anyone could manage to talk Dublin City Council into it.
Also found another story relating to an overground toilet building in Scarborough: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1271229/Scarborough-couple-convert-15k-public-toilet-seaside-home.html)
By law, any licensed premises in Ireland are duty bound to have a facility for the public whether you pay for something or not.
It’s bad enough trying to get into some pubs in the city when you’ve a wad of cash to spend on beer (not that many do nowadays), imagine the scenario ” Not tonight lads” ” It’s alright I just want to use the jacks!”
Gerard
Just wondering which Act and section says a publican must allow non paying customers to use their toilets?
Thanks in advance for clarifying your comment.
A
What law is that Gerard.
I don’t know specific laws or acts, I was given this information (among other) from a Sgt Garda on duty one night I was trying to get into a nightclub to meet my brother in law, he was inside and also had my house keys, the bouncers wouldn’t let me in, it was raining heavily and my brother in law was not answering his mobile, the Garda station was 100 yards away so I thought I would ask them to resolve the situation.
I was not drunk, I had just moved into the area and I was told I could not get in because I was not a regular, funnily enough my brother in law was fine getting in. The Sgt on duty was very nice, gave me that information and approached the manager, they let me in to get dry and I got my keys, needless to say I never went there again and I left without spending money.
That always stuck with me and it has worked when I have mentioned it to people, I always imagined it would be an old rule that comes as terms and conditions upon granting a licence for a public premises (which would include shops, restaurants, bars etc? Correct me if I am wrong but like I say, mentioning it has worked for me.
I was in Amsterdam s few years ago. The authorities put these mobile plastic urinals out like the ones u see at concerts. No use to women but stopped drunken guys pissing in the street I guess. It actually surprises me the number of ‘ respectable’ looking guys that will take their flute out in public in Dublin and urinate in a shop front when pissed.,, as if totally acceptable. Cops ..if there are any left, should issue stiff fines uf you pardon the pun.
One word….. Junkies!
Hint: the better comments generally have more than one word.
Doesn’t the notion of an underground toilet in Dublin scare anybody else?
.
Yes it does me I have been in one in London not very nice at all
My mother always warned me of dirty old men who inhabited these, therefore I never went into one
She was refering to churches ! :-)
Funny you should say that our local church was St. Jacks
Insert George Michael joke here ?
Insert George Michael, IS the joke!
Public toilets are needed very badly particularly where tourists are concerned.
Totally. There is definitely still a need there.
Agreed, the amount of human waste about the lanes in the capital is shameful and a health hazard. 21st century any we can’t handle the basics!
Is it any wonder all the public toilets were shut down around Dublin City. They were so difficult to maintain and I feel that such toilets were no very safe in any case.
A lad I work with was doing a collection from a shop just off O’Connell street one night when there was a lad down the lane mid shite, didn’t even budge, the lad that is
Everybody loves that word junkies to shift a bit of blame. Everyone is a bit to blame for these closing because no one cared about how they left them. At least a junkie had the excuse of being stoned for leaving the place in bits behind them. Everyone else did it out of a lack of manners. I used the toilet in busaras recently and will never do so again. It sounded like a sex show in one and the smell of the place meant that you had to be bursting to be forced to either use it or the street. Putting them underground caused part of the problem as well. Single units overground are less likely to have couples sharing them for drug/sex use as is the case in other countries.
The law is all well and good!! But the cost to a business i.e toilet roll,soap, towel/hand dryer. It is unfair to expect a business to cover these cost for non paying customers. When water charges come into play I am sure there will be a charge on toilet use if not a customer
It did say in partnership with the city. Presumably the city will cover operational costs.
I’d no more go down to an underground toilet in Dublin city, walking on the street can be dangerous enough.
Business already pay for water
I’m amazed that there is not a single reference to the fact that many were built as air raid shelters.
The building in Terenure village even has the year it was built on the front of it. The one in Drumcondra is the same
Hi there,
Thanks for that extra bit of information! During my research I didn’t come across that info (I was mainly looking at documents from the late 19th century and presume the underground ones that were used as air raid shelters were built during the 1910s – 1940s? In any case, the docs I saw in the archives of Dublin City Library didn’t mention air raid shelters, hence the lack of info on that here) so I appreciate you adding that fact.
If anyone else has any other interesting facts about these buildings, please do add them.
Aoife
Thanks! You’ve might just have inspired another article idea there – thanks for that :)
Aoife
Thats ok,
a 5% new idea fee seems reasonable
The Phoenix Park has no toilet facilities except those linked to the 2 cafes. Disgraceful that a major recreational area like this doesn’t have proper facilities to encourage families to use the park for days out !
Come on Common County Council… Why does every decision have to be a drama series. It simple… Call other European countries and ask them for the contact details of the company that installed their public toilets. Explain your needs to these contacts and ask them to bid on the job. Simple as that.
Furthermore, I’m sure many of the decision makers have traveled to countries with public toilets… Why haven’t they taken the time to use them?
The stupid excuse of junkies getting in the way of toilets being installed. I know for a fact that tbe same Lot that installed and manage the city bikes and bus shelters also manage and install toilets. The deal is that they use a side of the toilet for advertising. The city pays nothing and in some cases make a profit from their use. The toilet user pays a euro to use. Afte a certain time or if the user fails to activate the toilet in a certain way… The toilet then begins to clean and sa itize itself. Anyone inside, during this time, is cleaned and sanitized. There is a warning before entering in several different languages detailing tbe cleaning and sanitizing.
Why so much drama?
@Marlon
I suspect the city council knows how to do this, but I am sure they will appreciate your swift advice all the same.
The capex and servicing costs need addressing too. Any more ideas ??
Sure they have toilets on the internet now.
In the Netherlands you can find simple and effective urinals, or ‘pissoirs’, on some streets. They need little maintenance and don’t present as a place for antisocial behaviour to occur as although they are private, patrons can also be seen at the top and bottom.
I think the word pissoir could catch on here too.
http://cdn3.vtourist.com/4/4753735-A_canalside_pissoir_Amsterdam.jpg
And if you use it you’re a pissoirtist!
I agree, but not so useful for women!
That would make you a ‘piss artist’ :-)
Most enjoyable article I’ve read about toilets today
I find them toilets creepy! So no!
We used to have toilets like those in Belfast, although all but one set have been filled in.
Jeyus I’m busted for a piss now………… Run
There’s a bar in Manchester which is a converted underground public loo.
Yeah I used to drink in there on occasion, pretty cool if compact!
Full of Micky watchers
I know the one in Rathmines is now used as an EPA air quality monitoring station to measure pollution in the Dublin area…:)
Great article Aoife!
Great article, whenever I pass the college green toilets I imagine turn of the century gents from the Bank of Ireland, or young Trinity scholars popping down there with their hats and moustaches and crazy attire
In Sydney one was converted into an art gallery for a while. With some of the more historic toilets, that perhaps have unusual features they could convert them into quirky little businesses. For example small bars, shops that don’t need much space. Make the spaces really affordable to rent provided the business ideas are creative and there could be some interesting results.
The Loo-vre?
We could do what the Dutch do with open-air urinals! Great idea!
There is a Welsh bar in Wellington (NZ) that was once an island public toilet under the street
I find it hard to believe that the toilets were inhabited only by the lower tiers in society. I heard all the big knobs hung out there.
I’m currently living in Melbourne and they still have the old public toilets in use here with the worth iron gates the white tiles and stone steps and to be honest the are something to admire and people here respect them because they look so well and provide a needed service .. If someone in Dublin city council could see the potential to have something else of age and to be admired and useful in the city instead of a stupid tall steel post that doesn’t even have a tourist information office under it ..
What’s with this word ‘toilets’? In the 40/50s we always called them lavatories. I have used that pissoir on Ormond Quay.
I don’t like the thought of using smelly public toilets, but businesses need to seriously consider the real cost of saying NO to non-customers using their facilities. If you’ve ever been a tourist you’ll know what I mean.
It is fine to say ‘dine/drink here, then you can use our loo’, but does that mean you need to hang around a bar or cafe until you are ready to ‘go’? What happens when you leave and half an hour later you want to use the loo? Should you walk back and say ‘hey, I ate/drank here, now I’m ready to use your facilities’ – sound silly, of course.
If Ireland wants to be tourist friendly, don’t put up those horribly inhospitable signs precluding emergency stops for non-customers. They might have the same effect on others that they have on me ie I WON’T go into those places for a meal or drink – if you can’t be tourist friendly you won’t get my tourist euro. As for the cost of extra toilet paper, soap and water – really, how much would it cost for a few extra folk per day Vs appearing unfriendly. Just think, you might get someone who ate/drank elsewhere using your loo, but the person who ate/drank at your business might use the loo down the road.
In the Palace Hotel in San Francisco, you can walk into the lobby, and into the promenade where you will find lavatories with gold appointed fixtures, marble counter tops and gilt-framed paintings. You need not be a guest of the hotel to use them. They are patrolled by security who sometimes check to see if there are two or four feet inside the stalls (there is a gap at the bottom of the stall door). One pair used two Gucci shopping bags to conceal a second person’s feet from the security patrol. True story.
Thanks for a well researched and written article.
Oh god crying with laughter
The council couldn’t give a crap
The toilets at College Green feature briefly in Ulysses, Joyce availing of the opportunity for an elaborate pun, seeing as they are located under the statue of Thomas Moore – “They did right to put him up over a urinal – the meeting of the waters [the title of one of Moore's Irish ballads, for anyone that mightn't know].
The cast-iron pissoirs on Ormond Quay (and, yes, they were known as that, at the time, rather than the more genteel ‘urinal’) were, to the best of my knowledge, installed for the Eucharistic Congress in 1931 and remained in place for some forty years after.
Was George Micheals opinion sought on this matter ?
No, it wasn’t.
Seamus….cross my legs and hope for the best, but I’m like a kid always go before I leave the house, the hassle to try and find a loo in the city is not worth it!
Cold weather always makes the urgency more urgent.
The Howth facility is still in operation at the foot of the East Pier. Haven’t been inside, so I can’t offer a review.
I tip my hat to the author for the research and thoroughness of the article. Well done. Even though the subject matter might seem ungainly, you serve us well.
No loss, they were nothing but underground piss holes…the smell was disgusting, like those underground pedestrian tunnels…you’d be gagging!
What do you do when nature calls, Joan?
I really like the public toilet building in Harold’s Cross. It seems a waste not to have them open as they are needed by families using the park. Unfortunately the concrete of the roof projection has started to crumble over the last few years.
Dublin city has the last public toilets of any European capital. As a result, it smells like piss every morning. Employees of stores have to wash the dried piss off their storefronts. I have to walk on pissy water every morning. I’m so pissed off at this city for the lack of toilets (pun intended)
Quentin Tarrantino’s opinion was, however.
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